UCwangciso lweSanta Cruz umbhali uDan White waba neengxoxo ezinzulu ezahlukeneyo kweli hlobo kunye noToni Morrison kunye no-Angela Davis malunga nentsebenziswano yabo yangaphambili, ubuhlobo babo bexesha elide, kunye nenkolelo yabo ye-bedrock kumandla oncwadi. UDavis wazisa uMorrison ngelixa wayeseSanta Cruz ukuhambisa i-Peggy Downes Baskin Ethics Lecture eRio Theatre ngo-Oktobha 25. Umxholo: "Uncwadi kunye nokuThula koKulunga." U-Angela Davis udliwano-ndlebe naye ngefowuni evela eMassachusetts, kunye noToni Morrison ovela kumantla eNew York.
U-Dan White: Ndingaqikelela ukuba nabanye babalandeli bakho abazimiseleyo abaqondi ukuba ubungumhleli onempembelelo e-Random House iminyaka engama-20. Ngela xesha wawukhupha amazwi ase-Afrika aseMelika - kubandakanywa namazwi anamandla abasetyhini - kubaphulaphuli ababanzi.
UToni Morrison: Ewe, bendizimisele ukuyenza loo nto ukufika kwam apho. Mninzi umsebenzi oqhubekayo, ubutshantliziyo abaninzi, kwaye ndacinga ukuba, ndiza kupapasha la mazwi endaweni yokumatsha. Ndacinga ukuba luxanduva lwam ukupapasha ababhali base-Afrika baseMelika kunye nabase-Afrika abangayi kupapashwa okanye bangapapashwa kakuhle, bahlelwe kakuhle, kwaye ke ndakhupha imisebenzi ka (Muhammad) u-Ali noToni Cade (uBambara) noGayl (Jones) Ndenza ingqokelela yamabali amafutshane esiNtu emva koko ndenza incwadi ethi The Black Book, ndabona ukuba ibalulekile loo nto kuba ndandiyincutshe kuyo, kuba ndandikhe ndazifunda iincwadi zababhali abantsundu ezithetha ngezinto ezintsundu kwaye zazihlelwe kakubi. ukwenze wafuna ukulila. Njenge Roots (ngu-Alex Haley). Ngaba ukhe wayifunda loo nto?
DW: Ndandingumntwana ukuvela kwayo. Ndibone uninzi lwe-mini-seriesโฆ
TM: Owu, bavele bajula (incwadi) kunye, ibingasemva, kwaye baphosa isiphelo. Uthi โyayindim laa mntwana.โ Sasiyazi loo nto kwasekuqaleni!
Ku-Angela Davis: Ngexesha lakhe e-Random House, u-Toni Morrison uhlele ibhayografi yakho, eyapapashwa ngo-1974. Lwabakho njani olo nxibelelwano lokuqala?
AD: Uye waqhagamshelana nam. Andizange ndibe nomdla kakhulu ekubhaleni i-autobiography. Ndandimncinci kakhulu. Ndicinga ukuba ndandineminyaka engama-26 ubudala. Ngubani obhala i-autobiography ngelo xesha? Kwakhona, ndandingenamdla kangako ekubhaleni incwadi eyayigxile kwindlela yobuqu. Ewe ngelo xesha i-paradigm ye-autobiography ngokubhekiselele kum yayingumntu onobuqhawe kwaye ngokuqinisekileyo ndandingafuni ukuzibonakalisa ngolo hlobo. Kodwa uToni Morrison wandeyisela ukuba ndingayibhala ngendlela endifuna ngayo; isenokuba libali kungekuphela nje lobomi bam kodwa lentshukumo endabandakanyeka kuyo, yaye waphumelela.
Ku-Angela Davis: I-autobiography yakho i-cinematic kakhulu-Ndifunde umsebenzi wakho omninzi wezemfundo, kodwa lo wakhiwe njengenoveli. Kwasekuqaleni, uzama ukubaleka kwi-FBI kwaye kukho le nto ibonakalayo yoloyiko. Umfundi usembindini wokuzingela. Bendizibuza ukuba ingakanani na loo nto ivela kwimpembelelo yomcebisi wakho, uToni Morrison.
AD: Isigqibo sokuqalisa ibali ngelixesha ndandingena phantsi komhlaba ndize emva koko ndibanjwe yayiyeyona ndlela inika umdla yokuzoba abantu ebalini, amagqabantshintshi ababesele bewazi ngenxa yokuba ndibekwe kwi-FBI 10 eyayifunwa kakhulu. uluhlu lwapapashwa kulo lonke ilizwe, kwihlabathi jikelele, ngoko ewe, kwakukho ukusetyenziswa kohlobo lwesicwangciso se-cinematic se-flashback kwaye oku kwaba ngumbulelo kwigalelo lomhleli wam, uToni Morrison. Kwaye ndingatsho ukuba ekufundeni indlela yokubhala ngolo hlobo kuye - akazange aphinde andibhalele izinto, kodwa wandibuza imibuzo. Wayedla ngokuthi, โsasikhangeleka njani isithuba, yintoni ekweli gumbi, yaye ungasichaza njani?โ Yayingamava amangalisayo kum ukuba naye abe ngumcebisi. Amava am ngokubhala yayikukubhala ikakhulu ngemiba yefilosofi. Ngokwenene kwafuneka ndifunde ngendlela yokubhala into eyayiza kuvelisa imifanekiso ezingqondweni zabantu eyayiza kubatsalela ebalini.
TM: Ukusebenza no-Angela yayiyi-sui generis, kwaye andizange ndivele ndihlele incwadi yakhe. Ndahamba naye kukhenketho lweencwadi; Ndandingumxhasi wakhe! Kwakhona. Oku kwakungaphambi kokuba ndibe nguToni Morrison (igama likaMorrison langempela nguChloe Wofford. UToni ligama lakhe lesidlaliso, kwaye "uMorrison" ligama lokugqibela lomyeni wakhe wangaphambili.) SasiseScandinavia ngexesha elinye; kwaye ndandiphethe kakuhle. Abantu babeza kuye kuwe, uyazi: 'Umntakwethu usentolongweni, kwaye bendizibuza ukuba singaba netheko le-cocktail (ukumkhulisela imali),' kwaye into yayikukuba, (uDavis) wayema โโaphulaphule, kwaye ndithi, โuphi na?โ, ndize ndithi, โAngela, yiza!โ
DW: ubonakala ungumntu okwaziyo ukubeka imida nabanye abantu.
TM: Ewe. Yinyani leyo. Ndifunde izinto ezintathu. Ndixelela wonke umntu ukuba andizange ndisebenzise la magama kakhulu kodwa ngoku ndonwabile ukuwasebenzisa kakhulu ngalo lonke ixesha. Omnye uthi โhayi.โ Omnye โuvale umlomo.โ Elokugqibela lithi โphuma!โ Ekubeni ngoku ndinaloo mpahla, ndingaphuma. (ehleka.)
DW: Oku kusecaleni kancinane, kodwa kuhambelana noko ukuthethileyo ngokudala imida eqinileyo nabantu. Ngenye imini, ndakubona ufunda kwiYunivesithi yaseColumbia kwaye ibhinqa elithile laphakama lathi, โToni Morrison, ndingathanda ukukufundela lo mbongo ndiwubhalileyo,โ wathi, โHayi.โ
TM: Nditshilo? (ehleka.)
I-DW: Ukuya ku-AD: Xa wawusebenza no-Toni Morrison, wayesenza iincwadi ezintsha ebomini ezizezakhe. I-Bluest Eye yabhalwa ngelixa wayesekwi-Random House. Ngaba ukhe walifumana ithuba lokumbona โesebenzaโ esebenza kwincwadi?
AD: Ngokuqinisekileyo. Ndibe nethuba lokufunda iBluest Eye ngaphambi kokuba abantu abaninzi endibaziyo bavezwe kuyo kwaye ndiyakhumbula ukuba wayebhala ngalo lonke ixesha elisecaleni. Le yeyona nto indichukumise kakhulu ngaye: uqeqesho lwakhe, ugqaliselo lwakhe. Ngesinye isihlandlo ndandihleli endlwini yakhe eRockland County, (eNew York), yaye kwakufuneka aqhube ukuya (eManhattan) yonke imihla ukuze asebenze eRandom House. Bendimbona xa sihamba ngemoto, xa kukho itraffic, ebemane ekhupha i pad encinci abhale into okanye akhuphe isiqwengana sephepha apha naphaya, ndaqonda uphila ubomi benoveli elandelayo kuye. ingqondo nokuba yintoni enye eyenzekayo. Bendisoloko ndichukunyiswa kukwazi kwakhe ukugxila kakhulu kwaye ahlale kwindawo yonke yokubhala kwakhe ngelixa engayityesheli indalo ebandakanya thina sonke.
DW: Waye wakwenza konke oku ngelixa ekhulisa amakhwenkwe amabini yedwa, ejongene nokuhamba, kwaye ebambe umsebenzi onamandla aphezulu.
AD: Kwaye wayengengomntu ongusisi ngoko ke wayenobomi obukhutheleyo ekuhlaleni ngokunjalo. Ukwazi ukugcina olo gxininiso - le yinto asaqhubeka eyenza namhlanje. Ndichukumisekile kukupapashwa rhoqo kweenoveli zakhe usoloko esebenza kwiprojekthi. Uhlala ehlala kwelinye ilizwe.
DW ukuya ku-TM: U-Angela Davis uye kwiinkcukacha malunga nokuqhuba kwakho, malunga nokuba ukhupha kangaphi iincwadi ezintsha. Bendifuna ukwazi ukuba yintoni eqhubeka ikukhuthaza kumsebenzi wakho ngeli xesha. (UMorrison ngoku uneminyaka engama-83) Ngaba lukhona olunye uhlobo ongakhange uluzame okwangoku, injongo ethile ovakalelwa kukuba awukahlangani nayo?
TM: Hayi, ndiliqhube kakuhle kakhulu igamut, kodwa ukubhala iinoveli lihlabathi kum, ngokoqobo. Umhlaba wangaphandle ungaba ok okanye awulungile, umhle okanye awumhle kodwa ndilawula apha. Xa ndibhala, akukho mntu undixelela ukuba ndenze ntoni. Izinto ezilindelweyo ziphezulu kuba zezam, kwaye luhlobo lwenkululeko endingenayo kwenye indawo. Akukho ndawo. Andivuyi kakhulu xa ndingenayo iprojekthi. Akunyanzelekanga ukuba ndiphuhlise umbhalo-ngqangi kodwa ukuba andinawo umbono malunga nokuqala kwawo, ndizibuza ngawo.
DW: Le yeka-Angela Davis. Ube ngumhlobo noToni Morrison iminyaka engama-40 ngoku, kwaye ube nethuba lokubona umsebenzi wakhe ukhula, kwaye impembelelo yakhe ikhula. Bendinethemba lokuba ungagqabaza ngendlela umsebenzi kaToni Morrison othe waphembelela ngayo ihlabathi loncwadi, kunye nehlabathi ngokubanzi.
AD: Ngenxa yomsebenzi wakhe kunye nomsebenzi wabanye kuye kwaba nokwenzeka ukucinga ubukhoboka ngokwahlukileyo kakhulu, ukwenza ubukhoboka bobuntu, ukukhumbula inkqubo yobukhoboka ayizange itshabalalise ubuntu babo ibenze amakhoboka; amaxesha amaninzi ingcamango kukuba ubukhoboka babubi kwaye ngokuqinisekileyo ukuba ubonisa amakhoboka afumana uvuyo okanye ukwenza umculo ngandlela-thile waphula imigaqo yokuqonda ubukhoboka njengento embi, kodwa ngokuqinisekileyo ukuba amakhoboka ayengakwazi ukufikelela phantsi kwaye afumane ubuntu phakathi kwawo. ngebeyekile ukuba ngabantu, ngokoqobo. Kungenxa yokuba kutheni kugxininiswa ekucingeni kwakhona ubukhoboka bubaluleke kakhulu. Sithandwa, kunjalo, siyasivumela ukuba senze oku kwaye inika indlela eyahlukileyo kakhulu kungekuphela nje kuncwadi kodwa nakwimbali kunye neengxelo ezidumileyo malunga neembali zekhoboka. Ifilimu efana ne "Iminyaka elishumi elinambini yobukhoboka" ibaluleke kakhulu kodwa ngexesha elifanayo kwakukho umlinganiselo owawungekho.
DW ukuya ku-TM: mhlawumbi ungabonisa indlela ubukhoboka obaboniswa ngayo xa wawuqala ukubuthatha njengesifundo.
TM: Indlela ubukhoboka obabuboniswa ngayo yayahlukile. Kuyatshintsha xa ususa โiliso elimhlophe.โ Bonke abo babhali bamangalisayo babhala emva kokuba bekhululwe babebhalela abo babhangisayo. Abazange bacinge ukuba ndiza kuyifunda kwaye ke kufuneka bavuyise okanye bangaphazamisi ababhubhisi abamhlophe ngamabali abo, ke ufunda uFrederick Douglass kwaye ndiyawuva umsindo awucimayo. Ayikho apho. Ukuba ebesazi ukuba ndiyayifunda, inokuba yincwadi eyahluke kakhulu. Nditsho noRalph Ellison. Ndixelela abantu awayibiza ngokuba nguMntu Ongabonakaliyo. Nangona ilungile le ncwadi, impendulo yam yokuqala ithi, "Ayibonakali kubani?"
I-DW ka-Toni Morrison: Ngelixa ubujongane nemibandela eyoyikekayo kwiincwadi zakho, ukuquka ubukhoboka, ubeke ugxininiso olukhulu ekuchazeni okulungileyo emsebenzini wakho. Kutheni le nto oko kubaluleke kangaka kuwe njengexabiso emsebenzini wakho?
TM: Ukulungaโayikho enye into abantu abafanele bayihlakulele baze bayiphilele. Intsalela yayo incinci kwaye iyazicingela iikhathuni phantse. Ndihlala ndicinga ububi ngomnqwazi ophezulu kunye nebhendi enkulu kunye nekepisi, intonga, mhlawumbi ubucwebe obukhazimlayo, ngoko utsalwa kakhulu bubukhazikhazi. Ndacinga ukuba eyona nto ichukumisayo eyenziwa ngamaNazi ngeenjongo zawo ngumyili wawo, iiyunifomu zawo nobude beebhutsi zawo.
DW: Loo, kunye namandla esandisi-lizwi.
TM: Ewe. Izihlwele, izandisi-lizwi, umdlalo weqonga omkhulu nabantu balukuhlwa: abo babengagxothwanga nabo babengabulawanga.
DW: Uchazile ukuba ububi bufumene inkuthazo enkulu kuncwadi ngelixa okulungileyo kutsalwa kumbindi weqonga. Ukhankanyile ukuba ukulunga kuhlala kusiza njengeveki okanye kuthulekile okanye kuthe cwaka.
TM: Yayingeyonyani kuncwadi ngeentsuku zokuqala. Kwakusoloko kukho igorha elaphumelela. Okothusayo njengoko izinto zisenokwenzeka kwinoveli kaDickens, yaphela ngokusinda kunye noloyiso lokuziphatha okuhle, kwabantu ababefanele uloyiso. Kodwa kukho into eyenzekayo. Ngoku, andiqinisekanga ngokupheleleyo malunga noku, kodwa ndicinga ukuba kusemva kweMfazwe Yehlabathi I kunye nababhali beencwadi nangaliphi na izinga, kwaye ngokuqinisekileyo ezinye zeembongi zemfazwe. Mhlawumbi babeziqonda ukuba bahlasela ububi kodwa baphela beyibonisa kwaye abantu abalungileyo babezizidenge okanye banethamsanqa okanye yintoni onayo. Kukho iimbekiselo kuncwadi ekuthulisweni kokulungaโฆ Ndinomdla wokukhupha kwicanon yanamhlanje into endiyaziyo kunye nento endiyikholelwayo malunga nolu nqulo nomdla, olu xanduva lokubonisa ububi. Nokuba kukho umzamo othambileyo wokutsho ukuba kubi, nangona kunjalo kukhwela iqonga kwiinoveli ezininzi. Ndicinga ukuba ukulunga kubuthathaka kuncwadi phantse njengokuba kunjalo kwinkcubeko. Olu luqwalaselo nje jikelele.
DW: Ngokujonga oku, wenza njani umdlalo omhle kumabali akho?
TM: Kum kusoloko kukho isiphelo apho umntu azi into ebaluleke kakhulu ebekade engayazi ngaphambili ngoko ke ukufunyaniswa kolwazi luphawu lwam lokulunga. Ingqokelela yeziganeko, ithiyori, utshintsho lwengqondo, idibana nayo nantoni na eyenzekayo ekupheleni kwencwadi, ityekele ukuya kuhlobo oluthile lwe-epiphany olusisityhilelo somntu ongcono. Ngoku, kukho unxunguphalo kunye nonxunguphalo phakathi kwabantu ezincwadini zam kodwa ngokweqhinga, ngokwesakhiwo yile nto ndicinga ukuba iyaqhubeka. Ndisenokungabi ngowona mzekelo ubalaseleyo wale nto ndiyichazayo kwisifundo (eSanta Cruz) kodwa andifuni kushiya umbhalo nomfundi ongenathemba okanye ongenakuzinceda kwaye ngokuqinisekileyo kukho umntu olapho kufuneka aphile kwimeko-bume yokulunga. okanye uthando, kwaye Uthando ngumzekelo obalaseleyo weencwadi zam zaloo nto.
DW: Kwisifundo eHarvard Divinity School ngo-2012, uye waphonononga kwiindlela zokutolika ezahlukeneyo โ iithiyori ezahlukeneyo โ malunga nezizathu zokucingela abanye abantu. Ngokutsho kwenye ingcaciso oyikhankanyileyo kwintetho, i-altruism ayiloxabiso langaphakathi. Kufuneka kufundiswe, kufundwe. Unale nto engqondweni, ucinga ukuba iinoveli zinako, okanye kufuneka, zithwale uxanduva olusesikweni, ubunzima bokuziphatha?
TM: Ndingacaphukela ukuthi bathwele obo bunzima kodwa inganomdla ngakumbi kum ukuba bangaphonononga lo (mcimbi) ngocoselelo, hayi ngamagama amnyama namhlophe, uyazi, abangendawo namaqhawe, kodwa ngenye indlela. Ndifunde iinkcazo ezinomdla zokuzicingela, akukho nanye kuzo eluncedo kakhulu okanye elungileyo. Omnye wathi yi-narcissism, kwaye omnye wathi luhlobo lwesigulo sengqondo. Ingcinga yokufundiswa kwayo ngumbuzo ondibuza wona. Kwaye ndacinga ngaloo nto xa ndihamba, njengoko ndihlala ndisenza xa iimpendulo zomntu zingekho (ziyanelisayo), kwilizwe lezilwanyana. Lininzi idini lelinye ukwenzela uluntu, nokuba ziimbovane ezisoloko zilandela emva ukuze zifumane umzimba wenye imbovane okanye amalulwane azincamayo xa esiva into yokusindisa umqolomba okanye iintaka eziya kutsalela ingqalelo kuzo. balumkise abanye bomhlambi. Kuwo wonke umhlaba wendalo. Ewe maninzi imizekelo yokubingelela (kwindawo yoluntu), imibingelelo yabazali eyaziwayo, kunye nabathandi kwimbali yokubalisa kodwa bendinomdla kakhulu kobekwenzeka ngoku, uyazi, kule minyaka ingama-40 idlulileyo. . Ababhali abaninzi bakholelwa ukuba ububi bunomdla nje kunokulunga.
DW: Kwaye ufumene iindlela zokutyhalela phambili okuhle kumbindi weqonga, ubuncinci kwimisebenzi yakho. Umzekelo omnye othi qatha engqondweni yinoveli yakho yamva nje, iKhaya, apho unamandla okulunga angenambeko, โAbafazi belizwe ababethanda inkohlakalo. Kwaye xa umntu ekhalaza, bathi, โThula, thula.โ
TM: Kunjalo. 'Thula!'
DW: Aba bafazi bayakuncancisa umntu ofayo abuyele ebomini kodwa abakhuphi kwaphela. Ke, ngokucacileyo, wenza umahluko phakathi kwala mandla okulunga kunye nohlobo lweemvakalelo ...
TM: Ewe, kanye. Xa umenzi wabo wathi wenzeni abafuni kuthetha, um ... Kwakufuneka baphendule. Oko ndiqhelekile kusapho lwam. Ndiyavuya uveze igama elithi sentimentality. Akunjalo. Yenye into esebenzayo.
DW: Umnqweno wabo wokunceda uCee: kubonakala ngathi lixabiso lemvelo โ kunye nexabiso ekwabelwana ngalo kwindawo abahlala kuyo. Kodwa uke waba nabantu abalungileyo abachasene neqela, njengomfundisi kwinoveli yakho. Uthatha amakhoboka afundisa umngcipheko ukuba afundeโฆ
TM: Ewe, wayenokuphoswa entolongweni aze ahlawulisweโฆ Kwakufuneka achwechwe aze abafundise ukufunda. Ngubani owaziyo ukuba kutheni enze loo nto. Ingongoma kukuba wayecinga ukuba yayiyinto exabisekileyo ukuyenza. Kwaye ndiyakhumbula laa mntwana waseLovu owayeneqela labahlobo epatini ababedlwengula intombazana, kwaye wayengakwazi okanye akakwazi.
DM: Kwaye ufumana usizi olukhulu ngenxa yokoโฆ
TM: Ewe, uyayenza. Eso senzo sika 'andizukuthatha nxaxheba' - ekwenzeni oku, uncama isidima sakhe, kwaye ke ngoko, inokuba ngulowo ekupheleni kwencwadi onokuthi asindise lo mfazi ... ndikwintshukumo yobubi nokuzingca. kwenye into.
DM: Kwaye unemisebenzi edibanisa imbono yokulungileyo nokubi. Kum, njengomfundi, enye yezona zinto zinzima ngokweemvakalelo ku-Oyintanda kukubanjwa kwesigwebo sikaSethe, umlinganiswa ophambili, ngokubulala umntwana wakhe; ubungabonakala ngathi uyamgweba; isikali sokuziphatha sishiyelwa kumfundi.
TM: Leyo yayiyeyona nto inkulu ekubhaleni othandekayo, eli bali lalo mfazi uMargaret Garner (ikhoboka lokwenyani elasindayo elaphefumlela umlinganiswa kaToni Morrison, uSethe) ngendlela yam, kwaye ndiye ndaqonda kwangethuba ngokuchanekileyo oko ukuthethileyo: andikwazanga ukumgweba. Masithi bendisazi ngokuqinisekileyo ukuba amakhwenkwe am - abantwana bam - baza kuxhwilwa, bahlukunyezwe, bendiza kwenza ntoni? Kwaye andizange ndikwazi ukuphendula. Ndaphendula ngenye indlela kuxhomekeke kwinto endandicinga ukuba ingozi kubo yayiyiyo ngoko. Ndaqonda ukuba mnye kuphela umntu okwisikhundla sokugweba, kwaye ngumntwana ofileyo lowo.
DW: Kwaye siyayifumana imbono yakhe kwincwadi.
TM: Ewe, yile nto ayicingayo.
DW: Kwaye loo mzuzu kwi-Oyintanda ebuhlanti, xa uSethe ebulala umntwana wakhe, undenze ndacinga ngabanye oomama neentombi kwiinoveli zenu kunye nezi miboniso zigqithileyo zothando: indawo apho umlinganiswa u-Eva, eSula, atshisa iPlum. , kodwa naye utsiba ngefestile ukuze asindise uHana, kunye nomboniso kwi-A Mercy xa umama enika umntwana wakhe.
TM: Ewe, iindlela ezigqithisileyo zothando. Kwaye eyona nto sicinga ngayo ngendlela yothando kodwa ndiye ndakhunjuzwa mva nje ngomnye umntu kwincwadi yam, eSula, xa (uHana) wathi wakha wandithanda? Athi ke lomama ndikugcine uphila.
DW: Luthando-bukulunga-kodwa kukho into eyoyikekayo ngalo.
TM: Kolu luntu babengenanto, bengenamanzi, bahlukene nedolophu. Babengenanto ngaphandle kweziqu zabo kwaye nendlela abaphathana ngayo yindlela abaphila ngayo emhlabeni, Ndihlala ndicinga ukuba aba ngabantu abangakuthandiyo kodwa abazukwenzakalisa. Baya kubusindisa ubomi bakho nokuba bafuna ukuba bakusindise okanye akunjalo.
DW: Okulungileyo kunohlobo lomgangatho wokugruzuka
TM: Ewe. yindlela yam yokwenza oko.
DW: Ukwabalule amabali okuba ububi obukhethekileyo, kuqukwa namabali osasazo, athanda ukuthomalalisa amandla okulunga kwindawo 'engaqhelekanga' - eHarvard, kwisifundo sakho apho, uthethe ngoluntu lwama-Amish, olungazange luvume ukugweba umntu. indoda ngokudubula iqela lamantombazana ama-Amish, kwaye wade wafikelela ukuthuthuzela umhlolokazi wakhe.
TM: Ewe, kwaye abemithombo yeendaba bayijije ngathi yinto engaqhelekanga.
DW: Ndicinga ukuba indlela enibonisa ngayo intle ngaphandle kokuphoxa ezincwadini zenu, ngaphandle kobo bugqwirha obusandulโ ukubukhankanya, ayinakwenzeka kwaphela ukuba ubhale ukwimo yokugxeka nokuphelelwa lithemba.
TM: Ababhali abaninzi bayabhala bekuloo ndawo. Kwaye, uyazi, cinga ngezinga lokuzibulala kunye nokusela utywala. Iphezulu phakathi kwababhali esibathandayo. Izinto ezimbi ziyenzeka kwaye ihlabathi liluhlobo lwesiphithiphithi, kwaye akukho nto nabani na anokuyenza malunga nalo ukuba liyamkele, ukulivuma, kwaye ukulunga okanye ukufikelela okuthile ekucaceni ukuziphatha kuba (kubonakaliswa) buthathaka okanye kupheleliselwe kuhlobo lwezifundo. Ukuvala ihlabathi labantu benkolo, uyabazi abantu abanokholo kakhulu, abantu bevangeli. NdingumKatolika ke nalapho yomelele kakhulu kwaye oku ecaleni kodwa ndicinga ukuba besibona iziphumo zenkolo eSyria. (I-ISIS) isandula ukunqumla intloko yomntwana - abantwana! -kwaye ngoba? Ngenxa yokuba babengavumelani nenkqubo yabo yokukholelwa. Ndiyazi ukuba besikhe saba nayo le nto ngaphambili โ phaya emva ngexesha leeMfazwe zoMnqamlezo โ kodwa kukho into emalunga nokudityaniswa kobubi nemidlalo yabo yeqonga endikhathazayo, hayi nje ehlabathini kodwa ndiyijonge kwindawo endihlala ndibufumana kuyo ubulumko. kunye nobugcisa kwaye oko kuncwadi.
DW: Kodwa ngokuqinisekileyo kukho amaxesha apho iziganeko zehlabathi ziye zakwenza ukuba uphelelwe lithemba.
TM: Makhe ndikuxelele i-anecdote encinci. Uyakonwabela oku. Ndabhala ngale nto kwiphephancwadi. (Ngo-2004) Ndandibhala into kwaye andinakukwazi kwaye ndiziva ndibuhlungu kakhulu, ndiphazamisekile ndicinga. Nangona kunjalo, nokuba yayiyintoni na yayikhubaza kwaye umhlobo - uPeter Sellars (umlawuli we-opera kunye nethiyetha oye wasebenzisana noMorrison) - wabizwa njengoko ehlala esenza ngoSuku lweKrisimesi okanye into ethile ngexesha leeholide kwaye uhlala esebenza kwaye esebenza. Wathi unjani kwaye ndathi andiziva mnandi kakhulu. Yayilixesha elibuhlungu. Ndathi uyazi, Peter, andikwazi ukubhala, kwaye ndamxelela ukuba kutheni ndicinga ukuba andinakukwazi kwaye waqala ukukhwaza hayi hayi hayi hayi. Uthe eli lixesha kanye apho amagcisa aya emsebenzini. Hayi xa yonke into ihamba kakuhle kodwa xa izinto zazinzima. Dire. Ngeli xesha sifuneka ... Thixo, cinga ngabo bonke ababhali ababhala ezintolongweni kwiigulags, uyazi. Ndiya kuthetha, kuyamangalisa nje ngoko ndaziva ndineentloni kodwa ndonwabe kakhulu ukuba wathi. Andizange ndibe nangxaki ukususela ngoko.
DW: Wawungunjingalwazi wezoluntu iminyaka emininzi ePrinceton. Ukuqwalasela aba bafundi banamandla aphezulu, kwaye abaninzi baya kwizikhundla ezinempembelelo enkulu kunye namandla- ngaba luxanduva oluthile lukanjingalwazi wezobuntu ukusebenzisa imbali kunye noncwadi ukufundisa ukuziphatha kunye noxanduva lokuziphatha.
TM: Ndikhetha ukucinga ngayo njengokushukuma (abafundi) kubulumko
DW: Njani?
TM: Ngobulumko!
DW: Ndiza kuqukumbela ngombuzo obanzi kubo bobabini ababhali: Ngaba iyakwazi ukuba incwadi itshintshe ihlabathi?
AD: Ngokuqinisekileyo. Ndicinga ukuba besiya kuhlala kwihlabathi elahluke kakhulu ukuba besingakhange sibe nempembelelo yokubhala kukaToni Morrison. Akukho mathandabuzo ngomlinganiselo athe waba nefuthe ngawo kwihlabathi loncwadi kungekuphela nje kweli lizwe kodwa kulo lonke. Ngokwenene utshintshe ubuso beplanethi. Kwaye ndimbona njengomntu othathe isigqibo sokusebenzisa italente yakhe yokubhala ukuzisa izimvo ezintsha kwihlabathi-ukutshintsha umhlaba ngokupheleleyo. Kwaye amaxesha amaninzi oko kwenzeka ngokusisiseko, ngokunzulu ngakumbi, kunotshintsho olubonwa ngabo bethu basebenza kwinqanaba lezopolitiko. Andicingi ukuba umbono wethu wenkululeko uya kuba yintoni ngaphandle kwempembelelo kaToni Morrison. Wathi umntu akanakukhululeka ngaphandle kokukhulula umntu. Inkululeko kukukhulula omnye umntu. Kwaye ngokuqinisekileyo abo bethu benza umsebenzi wezopolitiko - umsebenzi wezopolitiko ogqithiseleyo - bahlala begxininisa ukubaluleka kokudlula umntu omnye kunye nokucinga ngeenkqubo ezidibeneyo kwaye uToni Morrison uyenzile oku ekubhaleni kwakhe.
DW ukuya TM: Ingaba iyakwazi ukuba iincwadi zitshintshe ihlabathi?
TM: Abanye benza njalo. Benza nje. Kwaye ngamanye amaxesha kunzima kakhulu ukupapasha iincwadi ezinjalo. Cinga ngoJames Joyce. Awukwazi ukucinga ngendlela efanayo emva kokuba ufunde ilizwi elithile.
DW: U-Angela Davis ukholelwa ukuba oku kunjalo ngeencwadi zakho.
TM: Ke, ndiyathemba ukuba unyanisile. Kwaye andizange ndiyazi ukuba u-Angela akalungile.
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Nikela