Kolu dliwano-ndlebe, u-Angela Davis, kunye nomlweli, utitshala, umbhali, kunye ne-icon yentshukumo yaMandla aMnyama, bathetha ngonxibelelwano phakathi kwemizabalazo yehlabathi. Echukumisa ubufazi obuntsundu, ukubaluleka kwentlanganisela, iPalestine, indawo yokusebenzela yentolongo, nokunye okuninzi, uNjingalwazi Davis ucacisa ngendima abantu abanokuthi bayidlale. Inguqulelo emfutshane yolu dliwano-ndlebe yapapashwa okokuqala ngo Wesizwe.
UFrank Barat (FB): Uhlala uthetha ngamandla embumba kwaye ugxininise ukubaluleka kweentshukumo. Singakwazi njani ukuba namandla kuluntu olukhuthaza ukuzingca kunye nokuzimela?
U-Angela Davis (AD): Ukusukela ekukhuleni kongxowankulu behlabathi kunye neengcinga ezinxulumeneyo ezinxulumene ne-neoliberalism, kuye kwabaluleka ngakumbi ukuchonga ubungozi bomntu ngamnye. Imizabalazo eqhubela phambiliโnokuba igxile kubuhlanga, ingcinezelo, intlupheko okanye eminye imibaโigwetyelwe ukuba ingaphumeleli ukuba ayizamanga nokuphuhlisa ingqiqo yokukhuthaza ubungxowankulu ngobuqhetseba. Nanjengoko uNelson Mandela wayesoloko egxininisa ukuba izinto aziphumezileyo ziyimbumba, zisoloko ziphunyezwa ngamadoda nabafazi ababengamaqabane akhe, abeendaba bazama ukumngcwalisa njengomntu oligorha. Inkqubo efanayo izamile ukwahlula uGqr. Martin Luther King, Omnci., kwinani elikhulu labasetyhini kunye namadoda ababesembindini wenkulungwane yamashumi amabini yombutho wenkululeko wase-US. Kubalulekile ukuxhathisa ukuboniswa kwembali njengomsebenzi wamagorha ukuze abantu namhlanje baqonde i-arhente yabo enokubakho njengenxalenye yoluntu oluhlala lukhula lomzabalazo.
FB: Yintoni eseleyo namhlanje kwintshukumo yamandla amnyama?
AD: Ndicinga ngentshukumo yamandla amnyama-okanye into esasiyibiza ngelo xesha njengombutho wenkululeko yabantsundu-njengomzuzu othile ekuphuhliseni iphulo lenkululeko yomntu omnyama. Ngeendlela ezininzi kwakuyimpendulo koko kwakujongwa njengemida yentshukumo yamalungelo oluntu: kwakungadingeki nje ukuba sibange amalungelo asemthethweni kuluntu olukhoyo, kodwa kwanokufuna amalungelo abalulekileyoโimisebenzi, izindlu, unyango, imfundo, njl. kunye nokucela umngeni kwawona sakhiwo soluntu. Ezo mfunoโkwakunye nxamnye nokuvalelwa entolongweni ngobuhlanga, ugonyamelo lwamapolisa, nokuxhatshazwa kobukapitaliโzashwankathelwa inkqubo yeengongoma ezilishumi yeBlack Panther Party (BPP).
Nangona abantu abantsundu bengene kumanqanaba ezoqoqosho, ezentlalo, kunye nezopolitiko (owona mzekelo ubalaseleyo lunyulo luka-Barack Obama lowama-2008), inani elikhulu labantu abantsundu liphantsi koqoqosho, imfundo, kunye nocalulo ngokobuhlanga ngomkhamo omkhulu kakhulu kunangexesha ixesha lamalungelo oluntu. Ngeendlela ezininzi, iimfuno zenkqubo yeengongoma ezilishumi ze-BPP zifanelekileโokanye mhlawumbi zifaneleke ngakumbiโnjengangee-1960s, xa zazisenziwa okokuqala.
FB: Unyulo lukaBarack Obama lwabhiyozelwa ngabaninzi njengeloyiso ngokuchasene nobuhlanga. Ucinga ukuba le yi herring ebomvu? Ngaba ngokwenene yakhubaza ekhohlo ixesha elide kunye nama-Afrika aseMelika abandakanyekayo kumlo wehlabathi elinobulungisa?
AD: Uninzi lweengcinga malunga nokubaluleka konyulo luka-Obama azichanekanga kwaphela, ngakumbi ezo zibonisa umntu ontsundu kubongameli base-US njengomfuziselo wokuwa komqobo wokugqibela wobuhlanga. Kodwa ndicinga ukuba unyulo ngokwalo lwalubalulekile, ingakumbi ekubeni uninzi lwabantuโkuquka uninzi lwabantu abantsunduโluqala lungakholelwa ukuba kwakunokwenzeka ukuba kunyulwe umntu ontsundu ukuba abe ngumongameli. Abantu abancinci benza ngempumelelo intshukumo-okanye umntu kufuneka afanelekele oku ngokuthi yayiyi-cybermovement-eyayifeza into ebekufanele ukuba ayinakwenzeka.
Ingxaki yayikukuba abantu ababezinxulumanise nalo mbutho abazange baqhubeke nokusebenzisa elo gunya lidityanisiweyo njengoxinzelelo olunokuthi lunyanzelise u-Obama ukuba ahambe ngendlela eqhubela phambili (umzekelo, ngokuchasene nokuqhambuka komkhosi e-Afghanistan, ukuya ekuchithweni okukhawulezileyo kweGuantanamo, ukuya kuthi ga ngoku. isicwangciso sezempilo esinamandla.) Nangona simgxeka u-Obama, ndicinga ukuba kubalulekile ukugxininisa ukuba asizange sibe ngcono kunye noRomney kwi-White House. Into esisileleyo kule minyaka mihlanu idlulileyo ayingomongameli ofanelekileyo, koko ziintshukumo ezilungelelaniswe kakuhle.
FB: Ungawuchaza njani โubufazi obumnyamaโ? Yaye oku kunokudlala yiphi indima kuluntu lwanamhlanje?
AD: I-Black feminism yavela njengomzamo wethiyori kunye nokusebenzayo obonisa ukuba ubuhlanga, isini, kunye neklasi azahlukananga kwihlabathi lentlalontle esihlala kuyo. Ngexesha lokuvela kwayo, amabhinqa amnyama ayesoloko ecelwa ukuba akhethe ukuba intshukumo yabantsundu okanye intshukumo yabasetyhini yayibaluleke kakhulu na. Impendulo kukuba lo ngumbuzo ongalunganga. Owona mbuzo ufanelekileyo yayikukuqonda iindlela zokuhlangana kunye nokunxibelelana phakathi kweentshukumo ezimbini. Sisajongene nomngeni wokuqonda iindlela eziyinkimbinkimbi ubuhlanga, iklasi, isini, ubulili, isizwe kunye nokukwazi ukudibanisa-kodwa kunye nendlela esihamba ngayo ngaphaya kwezi ndidi ukuqonda ubudlelwane beengcamango kunye neenkqubo ezibonakala zihlukeneyo kwaye azihambelani. Ukugxininisa ukudibanisa phakathi kwemizabalazo kunye nobuhlanga e-US kunye nokulwa nokunyanzeliswa kwe-Israel yasePalestina, ngale ndlela, yinkqubo yabasetyhini.
FB: Ucinga ukuba lixesha lokuba abantu bazikhwebule ngokupheleleyo kumaqela aphambili ezopolitiko nakule ngcamango โiinkokeliโ zethu eziyibiza ngokuba yidemokhrasi yabameli? Ukubandakanyeka kwinkqubo yokonakala nebolileyo ngolo hlobo, elawulwa yimali nokubawa kuphela, kuyenza ibe semthethweni, akunjalo? Kuthekani ngokumisa le charade, uyeke ukuvota kwaye uqale ukwenza into ukusuka ezantsi ukuya phezulu entsha kunye nephilayo?
AD: Ngokuqinisekileyo andicingi ukuba amaqela ezopolitiko asele ekhona anokwenza amabala ethu omzabalazo, kodwa ndiyacinga ukuba ibala lonyulo linokusetyenziswa njengendawo ekunokuququzelelwa kuyo. E-US, siye safuna iqela lezopolitiko elizimeleyo ixesha elide-iqela elichasayo, iqela labasebenzi labasetyhini. Ndikwacinga ukuba uchanekile ngokupheleleyo ekuchongeni ubutshantliziyo bengca njengeyona nto ibalulekileyo yokwakha iintshukumo ezinkulu.
I-FB: Ilizwe lama-Arabhu liye lahamba kulo lonke utshintsho olukhulu kwiminyaka embalwa edlulileyo, kunye noguquko oluqhubekayo oluqhubekayo kumazwe amaninzi. Kubaluleke kangakanani ukuba abantu baseNtshona baqonde ukuhambelana koorhulumente bethu ekuxhaseni ubuzwilakhe bama-Arabhu?
AD: Ndicinga ukuba kufanelekile ukuba abantu belizwe lama-Arabhu bafune ukuba abo bethu baseNtshona bathintele oorhulumente bethu ekuxhaseni ulawulo lwengcinezelo-kwaye ngakumbi i-Israel. Oko kubizwa ngokuba โyimfazwe yobugrogrisiโ yenze umonakalo ongenakuthelekiswa nanto kwihlabathi, kuquka nokuqiniswa kocalucalulo oluchasene namaSilamsi eUnited States, eYurophu naseOstreliya. Njengenkqubela phambili kwiGlobal North, ngokuqinisekileyo asikhange siluvume uxanduva lwethu oluphambili ekuqhubekeni kohlaselo lomkhosi kunye neengcinga zabantu kwilizwe lama-Arabhu.
FB: Usanda kunika a intetho eLondon malunga nePalestine, i-G4S (iQela lesi-4 loKhuseleko) lelona qela lokhuseleko labucala likhulu ehlabathini, kunye neshishini lentolongo. Ngaba ungasixelela ukuba ezi zintathu zinxulunyaniswa njani?
AD: Ngaphantsi kokhuseleko kunye nelizwe lokhuseleko, i-G4S iye yazifaka kubomi babantu emhlabeni wonke-ingakumbi eBritani, eUnited States, nasePalestina. Le nkampani yinkampani yabucala yesithathu ngobukhulu emhlabeni emva kweWalmart kunye neFoxcomm, kwaye ingoyena mqeshi wabucala mkhulu kwilizwekazi laseAfrika. Ifunde indlela yokufumana ingeniso kubuhlanga, izenzo zokuchasa abaphambukeli, nakubugcisa bezohlwayo kwaSirayeli nakwihlabathi liphela. I-G4S inoxanduva oluthe ngqo lweendlela amaPalestina afumana ngayo ukuvalelwa kwezopolitiko, kunye nemiba yodonga localucalulo, ukuvalelwa ezintolongweni eMzantsi Afrika, izikolo ezifana nentolongo e-United States, kunye nodonga kumda we-US-Mexico. Okumangalisayo kukuba, safunda ngexesha lentlanganiso yaseLondon ukuba i-G4S iphinda isebenze amaziko okuxhatshazwa ngokwesondo eBrithani.
FB: Ingaba inenzuzo engakanani indawo yentolongo nemizi-mveliso? Uhlala uthi ilingana "nobukhoboka banamhlanje."
AD: Ishishini lemizi-mveliso yentolongo yehlabathi liyakhula ngokuqhubekayo, njengoko kunokubonwa kumzekelo we-G4S. Ngaloo ndlela umntu unokucinga ukuba inzuzo yayo iyenyuka. Ayibandakanyi kuphela iintolongo zikawonke-wonke kunye nezabucala (kunye neentolongo zikawonke-wonke, ezizezabucala ngakumbi kunokuba umntu ebenokucinga, ziya zixhomekeke kwiimfuno zengeniso) kodwa kunye nezibonelelo zabantwana, iintolongo zomkhosi, kunye namaziko okuncinwa. Ngaphezu koko, elona candelo linengeniso kwishishini leentolongo zabucala liquka amaziko ogcino lwabangeneleli. Ngoko ke umntu unokuqonda ukuba kutheni owona mthetho ucinezelayo ochasene nabaphambukeli eUnited States waqulunqwa ziinkampani zentolongo yabucala njengelinge elifihlakeleyo lokwandisa inzuzo yabo.
FB: Ngaba intolongo okanye ijele-ilizwe elingenayo i-utopia, okanye ngaba kunokwenzeka ngokoluvo lwakho? Yayiza kusebenza njani loo nto?
AD: Ndicinga ukuba uluntu olungenazo iintolongo luyinto enokwenzeka kwikamva, kodwa kuluntu oluguqukileyo, apho iimfuno zabantu, hayi iingeniso, ziyimpembelelo yamandla okuqhuba. Kwangaxeshanye ukubhangiswa kwentolongo kubonakala njengombono we-utopian ngokuchanekileyo ngenxa yokuba intolongo kunye neengcamango zayo ezixhasayo zendele ngokunzulu kwihlabathi lethu langoku. Kukho inkitha yabantu evalelwe eUnited Statesโabamalunga nezigidi ezibini ezinesiqingathaโyaye ukuvalelwa kuya kusetyenziswa ngakumbi njengendlela yokuphelisa iingxaki ezisisiseko zentlaloโubuhlanga, ubuhlwempu, ukungaqeshwa, ukungabikho kwemfundo, njalo njalo. Le miba ayikhe ijongwe ngokunzulu. Kuphela nje ixesha ngaphambi kokuba abantu baqalise ukuqonda ukuba intolongo isicombululo sobuxoki. Inkxaso yokuphelisa ingenzeka kwaye kufuneka yenzeke ngokunxulumene neemfuno zemfundo esemgangathweni, kwizicwangciso zomsebenzi ezichasene nobuhlanga, ukhathalelo lwempilo lwasimahla kunye nezinye iintshukumo eziqhubekayo. Inganceda ukukhuthaza ukugxeka kongxowankulu kunye neentshukumo ezisingise kwisocialism.
FB: Kuthetha ukuthini ukuchuma kwezakhiwo zentolongo malunga noluntu lwethu?
AD: Amanani anyukayo abantu abasemva kwezitshixo kwihlabathi jikelele kunye nokwanda kwengeniso yeendlela zokubabamba ngomnye weyona mizekelo imangalisayo yemikhwa eyonakalisayo yobukhapitali behlabathi. Kodwa iingeniso ezinyanyekayo ezifunyenwe ekuvalelweni ngobuninzi zinxulunyaniswa nengeniso evela kwishishini lokhathalelo lwempilo nakwimfundo kunye nezinye iinkonzo zoluntu ezithengiswayo ekufuneka eneneni zifumaneke simahla kuye wonke umntu.
FB: Kukho umcimbi othi "I-Mixtape yaMandla aMnyama,โ ifilimu ebhaliweyo malunga nentshukumo yeBlack Panther/Black Power eyaphuma kwiminyaka embalwa edlulileyo, apho intatheli ikubuza ukuba uyaluvuma ubundlobongela. Uphendule wathi, Ndibuze, ukuba ndiyavumelana na nogonyamelo; Le nto ayinangqondo.โ Ngaba unokucacisa?
AD: Bendizama ukubonisa ukuba imibuzo malunga nokuba semthethweni kobundlobongela bekufanele ukuba ibhekiswe kumaziko abambe kwaye aqhubeke nokubamba ubundlobongela: amapolisa, iintolongo, umkhosi. Ndamchazela ukuba ndakhulela kuMzantsi waseUnited States ngexesha iKu Klux Klan yayivunyelwe ngoorhulumente ukuba ibandakanyeke kuhlaselo lwabanqolobi nxamnye nabantu abantsundu. Ngela xesha ndandisentolongweni, ndityholwa ngobuxoki ngokubulala, ukuxhwila, kunye neyelenqe ndajika ndangumntu ojoliswe kubundlobongela kwiziko, ndandibuzwa ukuba ndiyavumelana na nobundlobongela. Ayiqhelekanga kakhulu. Bendizama nokubonisa ukuba ukhankaso lwenguquko lwenguquko lwalungengobundlobongela, kodwa malunga nemiba ebalulekileyo efana neemeko ezingcono zobomi babantu abahluphekayo kunye nabantu bebala.
FB: Namhlanje, abantu abaninzi bacinga ukuba ubuyinxalenye yeBlack Panthers, kwaye abanye bade bacinge ukuba ungomnye wamalungu aseki. Ngaba ungacacisa, ngokuchanekileyo, yayiyintoni indima yakho, ubudlelwane bakho ngelo xesha?
AD: Ndandingelilo ilungu eliseka iBlack Panther Party. Ndandifunda eYurophu ngo-1966, unyaka eyasekwa ngawo iBPP. Emva kokuba ndithelele iQela lamaKomanisi ngowe-1968, kwakhona ndaba lilungu leBlack Panther Party ndaza ndasebenza nesebe lombutho eLos Angeles, apho ndandisongamela imfundo yezobupolitika. Nangona kunjalo ngaxa lithile iinkokeli zagqiba kwelokuba amalungu e-BPP akanakunxulumana namanye amaqela, ngelo xesha ndakhetha ukugcina ukumanyana kwam neQela lamaKomanisi. Noko ke, ndaqhubeka ndiyixhasa yaye ndisebenza neBPP. Xa ndandisentolongweni, iBlack Panther Party yayilelona qela likhuthaza inkululeko yam.
FB: Xa ndibuyela kwimpendulo yakho malunga nobundlobongela, ndithe ndakuva ukuba utheni kwi-documentary, ndacinga ngePalestina. Uluntu lwamazwe ngamazwe kunye namajelo eendaba aseNtshona ahlala ebuza, njengommiselo, ukuba amaPalestina ayeke ubundlobongela. Ungakuchaza njani ukuthandwa kweli bali abanalo abo bacinezelweyo ukuqinisekisa ukhuseleko lwabacinezeli?
AD: Ukubeka umbuzo wobundlobongela phambili phantse ngokungathintelekiyo kunceda ukufihla imiba esembindini wemizabalazo yobulungisa. Oku kwenzeka eMzantsi Afrika ngexesha lokulwa ucalucalulo. Okubangela umdla uNelson Mandelaโoye wangcwaliswa njengoyena mthetheleli woxolo ubalulekileyo kwixesha lethuโwagcinwa kuluhlu lwabanqolobi base-US de kwaba ngowama-2008. Imiba ebalulekileyo kumzabalazo wenkululeko nokuzimela kwePalestina icuthwa kwaye yenziwa ingabonakali ngabo bazamayo. ukuthelekisa ukuchasa kwamaPalestina kucalucalulo lwakwaSirayeli nobunqolobi.
FB: Ugqibele nini ukuba sePalestine? Utyelelo lwakho lushiye imvakalelo enjani kuwe?
AD: Ndahamba ndaya ePalestine ngoJuni ka-2011 kunye negqiza lemveli kunye nabasetyhini abanebala elilwela amalungelo amabhinqa/amatsha ntliziyo. Eli gqiza liquka amanina akhulele phantsi kocalucalulo lwaseMzantsi Afrika, eJim Crow South, nakwi-Indian Reservations. Nangona sonke sasikhe sabandakanyeka kwiphulo lomanyano lwasePalestine, sonke sothuswa koko sakubonayo kwaye sagqiba ekubeni sikhuthaze amalungu ethu ukuba ajoyine Intshukumo ye-BDS (I-Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions) kunye nokunceda ukuqinisa iphulo lePalestine ekhululekile. Kutshanje abanye bethu baye bathatha inxaxheba kuwiso oluyimpumelelo lwesigqibo esikhuthaza intatho-nxaxheba Ukwaywa kwezeMfundo neNkcubeko nguMbutho weZifundo waseMelika. Kwakhona amalungu egqiza aye abandakanyeka ekuphunyezweni kwesigqibo soMbutho weeLwimi wanamhlanje okhalimela uSirayeli ngokwala izifundiswa zase-US ukuba zingene kwi-West Bank ukuze zifundise kwaye zenze uphando kwiiyunivesithi zasePalestina.
FB: Kukho iindlela ezahlukeneyo zokuchasa ezifumanekayo kubantu abacinezelwe ngobuhlanga okanye ngolawulo lobukoloniyali okanye imisebenzi yangaphandle (okt, iProtocol eyoNgezelelweyo ye-Geneva Conventions), kubandakanywa nokusetyenziswa komkhosi oxhobileyo. Kule mihla, umbutho wobumbano wasePalestine uzibophelele kwindlela yochaso olungenabundlobongela. Ucinga ukuba oku kukodwa kungaluphelisa ucalucalulo lwakwaSirayeli?
AD: Iintshukumo zeSolidarity, ngokuqinisekileyo, ngokwendalo yazo azinabundlobongela. EMzantsi Afrika, naxa kwakuququzelelwa umbutho wezizwe ngezizwe womanyano, iANC (African National Congress) kunye neSACP (South African Communist Party) bafikelela kwisigqibo sokuba bafuna iphiko elixhobileyo lombutho wabo: Umkonto We Siswe. Babenelungelo lokusenza eso sigqibo. Ngokunjalo, kukubantu basePalestine ukuba basebenzise iindlela abacinga ukuba zinokuphumelela kumzabalazo wabo. Kwangaxeshanye, kucacile ukuba ukuba i-Israel ikhe yahlulwa kwezopolitiko nakwezoqoqosho, njengoko iphulo le-BDS lizama ukwenza, u-Israyeli akanakuqhubeka nokuphumeza izenzo zocalucalulo. Ukuba, umzekelo, thina e-United States sinokunyanzela ulawulo luka-Obama ukuba luyeke inkxaso yalo yezigidi ezisibhozo zeedola ngosuku luka-Israyeli, oku kuya kuhamba indlela ende ekunyanzeliseni u-Israyeli ukuba aphelise umsebenzi.
FB: Uyinxalenye ye komiti ukuze kukhululwe ibanjwa lezopolitiko lasePalestina uMarwan Barghouti kunye nawo onke amabanjwa ezopolitiko. Kubaluleke kangakanani ukuba bonke bakhululwe, ukuze kubekho ubulungisa?
AD: Kubalulekile ukuba uMarwan Barghouti kunye nawo onke amabanjwa ezopolitiko kwiintolongo zakwa-Israel akhululwe. UBarghouti uchithe ngaphezulu kweminyaka engamashumi amabini evalelwe. Ingxaki yakhe ibonakalisa into yokuba uninzi lweentsapho zasePalestine zinelungu elinye elivalelweyo ngabasemagunyeni bakwa-Israel. Ngoku kukho malunga nama-5,000 amabanjwa asePalestina kwaye siyazi ukuba ukususela ngo-1967, ama-800,000 asePalestina-amashumi amane epesenti yamadoda-aye avalelwa yi-Israel. Imfuno yokukhulula onke amabanjwa ezopolitiko asePalestine yeyona nto iphambili kwimfuno yokuphelisa lo msebenzi.
FB: Utshilo ngexesha lentetho ku IYunivesithi yaseLondon Birkbeck ukuba umba wasePalestine wawufuneka ukuba ube ngowehlabathi jikelele, umba wentlalontle ekufuneka nayiphi na intshukumo yokulwela ubulungisa ibe nayo kwinkqubo yayo okanye kwi-ajenda. Ubuthetha ukuthini xa usitsho?
AD: Kanye njengokuba umzabalazo wokuphelisa ucalucalulo lwaseMzantsi Afrika wamkelwa ngabantu kwihlabathi liphela waza wabandakanywa kwii-ajenda ezininzi zobulungisa bentlalontle, umanyano nePalestina kufuneka ngokunjalo luthatyathwe yimibutho kunye nemibutho ebandakanyekayo kwizizathu eziqhubekayo kwihlabathi jikelele. Utyekelo lube kukuthathela ingqalelo iPalestine njengomba owahlukileyoโkwaye ngelishwa kaninzi kakhuluโumcimbi. Eli lixesha kanye lokukhuthaza wonke umntu okholelwa kukulingana nobulungisa ukuba ajoyine ikhwelo lePalestine ekhululekileyo.
FB: Ngaba umzabalazo awunasiphelo?
AD: Ndingathi njengoko umzabalazo wethu ukhula, uvelisa iimbono ezintsha, imiba emitsha, kunye neendawo ezintsha esizibandakanya kuzo kwiphulo lenkululeko. NjengoNelson Mandela, kufuneka sizimisele ukwamkela uhambo olude olusingise enkululekweni.
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