PAUL JAY, SENIOR EDITOR, TRNN: Tikugashirei kuThe Real News Network. Ndini Paul Jay. Ndiri muRamallah, Palestine. Uye zvino ari kubatana nesu kubva ku["la-ROOJ"] Café muRamallah ndiOmar Barghouti. Ndiye nhengo yekutanga yeAcademic and Cultural Boycott yeIsrael. Tinotenda nekubatana nesu.
OMAR BARGHOUTI, PALESTINIAN CAMPAIGN YEMUDZIDZO UYE TSIKA KUBOYCOTT YEISRAEL: Ndatenda.
JAY: Saka kurova uku ndokwei?
BARGHOUTI: The Palestinian Campaign yeAcademic and Cultural Boycott of Israel chaizvoizvo chimwe chikamu cheboka reBoycott, Divestment, and Sanctions movement, kana BDS kwenguva pfupi. Takatanga Academic and Cultural Boycott muna 2004, uye mukuru weBoycott, Divestment, Sanctions campaign yaiva muna 2005. Mushandirapamwe weBDS, kubva panguva yekutanga, wakatsigirwa nemapoka makuru anopfuura zana nemakumi manomwe mumasangano ePalestine, kusanganisira makuru. masangano evashandi, masangano emadzimai, mauto ezvematongerwo enyika, maNGO, zvichingodaro. Saka iyi isangano rine pedyo nekubvumirana sezvaunogona kuwana, uye haisi pakati pevaPalestine muWest Bank, Gaza, kusanganisira East Jerusalem, asiwo maPalestine mukati meIsrael, uye chikamu chikuru chevanhu vePalestine, avo vari muhupoteri muDiaspora.
JAY: Uye chaizvo zvauri kubvunza vanhu vari kunze kweIsrael kuti vaitei?
BARGHOUTI: Chinangwa chikuru chemushandirapamwe wekuramwa mabasa ndechekuita kuti Israel izvidavirire kumutemo wepasi rose nekuita kuti icherechedze kodzero dzedu nhatu dzakakosha. Saka inzira yekodzero. Kodzero nhatu idzi dziri kupedza kugarwa kwevanhu, kutorwa kwe1967 kweWest Bank, Gaza, nedzimwe nzvimbo dzeArab, Golan Heights zvichingodaro. Chechipiri kugumisa tsika iyi yerusaruraganda pakati peIsraeri. Pane hurongwa hwakagadzwa, huri pamutemo hwekusarurana kwemarudzi mukati meIsrael yatiri kudaidza kuti ipere.
JAY: Somuenzaniso?
BARGHOUTI: Ndichasvika kune izvo kana ndapedza poindi yechitatu, inova kodzero yekudzoka kwevapoteri. Uye ichi ndicho chinhu chinokosha. Maererano neUN Resolution 194, vapoteri vePalestine vane kodzero yekudzokera kumisha yavo kwavakabva. Saka izvi ndizvo zvikamu zvitatu. Yechipiri ndiyo isinganyanyi kunzwisiswa, ichigumisa hurongwa hwerusaruraganda. Asi vanhu vanoti, asi Israeri haisi democracy here? Zvakanaka, chaizvo, kwete kunyangwe zvichienderana neUS State department. [isinganzwiki] US [inonzwika] kwete chaiyo bhakoni rekodzero dzevanhu kana referensi. Asi kunyange US State Department kodzero dzevanhu mishumo yekodzero dzevanhu yakaramba ichishora rusarura rweIsrael rwakanyoreswa zviri pamutemo kune vagari vayo vasiri maJuda, vagari vechiArab veIsrael, maPalestine, maPalestine eIsrael. Rusarura urwu rwuri munzvimbo dzinenge dzakakosha dzedunhu reIsrael, kubva panzira iyo nyika inozvitsanangura senyika yemaJuda kwete nyika yevagari vayo-saka iyi ndiyo yega nyika pasi rose isingazvitsananguri senyika. mamiriro evagari vemo.
JAY:Izvozvi ukaita imwe yenyaya dzirikuitwa neboycott unenge uchiti pave nekuramwa kusvika pasisina maJuda.
BARGHOUTI: Aiwa, hatisi kutaura izvozvo. Kusvikira pasisina rusarura. Vanogona kuzvidaidza chero zvavanoda. Asi kusvikira rusarura rwapera, kusvikira rusaruro rwaitwa zviri pamutemo, rwapera.
JAY: Saka ipa mimwe mienzaniso yezvinhu zvaunoda kumira.
BARGHOUTI: Somuenzaniso, rusarura mukuva muridzi wevhu. MaPalestine ari mukati meIsrael havabvumidzwe kuva varidzi, kurenda, kana kugara munzvimbo dzinosvika makumi mapfumbamwe nenhatu muzana yenyika, dzakachengeterwa vagari vechiJuda veIsrael kana chero muJudha ari pasirese. Israel ine system iyi apo chete kana uri muJudha unova werudzi. MuPalestine akaberekerwa muIsrael uyo ari mugari haazi werudzi rweIsrael. Uyu musiyano pakati mugari uye national ndipo panouya rusarura. Saka muJudha wekuCanada anogona kuuya kuIsrael mangwana uye ave nekodzero dzakawanda kupfuura mudzimai wangu, akaberekerwa muHaifa mukati meIsrael, nekuti angave mugari weIsrael uye muJudha.
JAY: Ndeupi muenzaniso wekodzero ingave nemunhu uyu iyo isina mukadzi wako?
BARGHOUTI: Uridzi, somuenzaniso, munzvimbo zhinji dzeIsraeri. Anogona kutenga nzvimbo chero kupi zvako, kurenda, zvichingodaro. Mukadzi wangu haagone.
JAY: Mukadzi wako haagone kuva necondominium mu—.
BARGHOUTI: Munzvimbo dzakawanda muIsrael, ndinoreva, mu93 muzana.
JAY: Kurambidzwa nemutemo.
BARGHOUTI: Nomutemo.
JAY: Chii futi?
BARGHOUTI: Mabasa. Panhanho dzose, kana usiri muJudha, kazhinji hauna kodzero yekunyorera mabasa aya.
JAY: Semuyenzaniso, ibasa ripi raungatadza kunyorera?
BARGHOUTI: Mazhinji mabasa ehurumende, mazhinji ehurumende mabasa. Tiri kutaura nezve huwandu hwese hwevaPalestine vanoshandirwa mumaminisiti, munzvimbo dzese dzehurumende, vadiki, vadiki vashoma, pasi pehuwandu hwePalestine, chiyero chePalestine munharaunda yeIsrael. Asi kunyangwe munyaya dzakaita sehutano, hutano, dzidzo—.
JAY: Chii chingamisa muPalestine Israel kuenda kuchipatara chepamusoro chehutano munharaunda yechiJudha? Pane chinovadzivisa kuenda here?
BARGHOUTI: Kune mitemo yakawanda yehurumende inoita kuti zvikuomere zvikuru kuti uwane rubatsiro mukiriniki isiri munzvimbo yaunogara. Ini ndinongopa muenzaniso mumwe chete wekongiri: kutsvaga kenza, chimwe chinhu chisina kunaka. Nyika yeIsrael, Ministry of Health, yakaita tsvakiridzo yakareba kwazvo, yemakore mazhinji mune zvinokonzeresa gomarara uye zvinosvibisa zvinogona kukonzera gomarara, uye kuona kuwirirana pakati pezvinosvibisa uye chiyero chegomarara. Zvavakaita mumakore iwayo ose, vakasvetuka musha wose nemataundi ePalestine mukati meIsrael kunze kwemumwe chete. Uye rusaruraganda rwuri pachena, rwekuti hausi kutombo tsvagira cancer munharaunda dzePalestine mukati meIsrael, zvakabvunzwa, uye vakati, o, matambudziko ebhajeti. Asi nei matambudziko ebhajeti akashanda kunharaunda dzePalestine chete? Uye vamwe vaongorori vakasvika pamhedziso yekuti munzvimbo zhinji dzakasvibiswa, dziri padyo nemisha yechiArab kana maguta echiArab, saka dai wakazvidzidza, ungadai wakaratidza kuti huwandu hwegomarara huri kukwira nekukurumidza pakati pePalestine, zvakapetwa kaviri. vagari vechiJudha munzvimbo dzakawanda, nokuti zvose zvinosvibisa zvakavakwa pedyo nemaguta ePalestine.
JAY: Saka zvave kuita boycott movement iko zvino? Ndekupi kune kumwe kubudirira? Uye chii chiri kuita pahupfumi hweIsrael kana hupenyu hwetsika?
BARGHOUTI: Zvakanaka. Saka sangano reboycott rine makore mashanu, matanhatu. Kuchiri mangwanani kuti tikurukure kuti yakawanda sei ine chekuita nehupfumi hweIsrael. Iri kuita, asi kwete kukanganisa kukuru. Panguva ino, pfungwa haisi yekuita kuti hupfumi hweIsrael hurasikirwe zvakanyanya. Hatigoni kuita izvi nokukurumidza zvakadaro. Izvo ndezvekuratidza Israeri kuti chii, nyika yerusaruraganda iri kuita zvekugara uye koloni zvakare. Musanganiswa wakasarudzika wekugara, colonization, uye rusaruraganda. Uye izvi kupikisa rudzi rweIsrael kuMadokero, kana uchida, sedemocracy ine dambudziko rekugara nharaunda yakavakidzana. Haisi nyaya yebasa chete; zviri zvakare nezve hurongwa hwerusaruraganda mukati meIsrael uye inonyanya kukosha mhando yekusaruramisira, kunyimwa kwevapoteri vePalestine kodzero dzavo dzakatemerwa neUN dzekudzoka. Takava nebudiriro dzakawanda mumakore mashanu, matanhatu iwayo. Chaizvoizvo, tichienzaniswa neSouth Africa, bato rinopikisa rusaruraganda reSouth Africa, shamwari dzedu dzekuSouth Africa dzinotiudza kuti tiri kuenda nekukurumidza zvakanyanya kana tichienzanisa, nekuti mumakore mashanu, matanhatu tasvika kune vakawanda munharaunda dzakawanda dzekuMadokero, kusanganisira Canada. , Britain, France, Italy, Belgium, Norway, zvichingodaro, tisingatauri nezveSouth Africa. Vatsigiri vedu vekuSouth Africa [zvisinganzwike] masangano makuru eruzhinji muSouth Africa, vabuda vakatsigira kuramwa kwacho. Asi kunyangwe kuCanada, Canadian Union yePost Workers, semuenzaniso — mubatanidzwa wenyika — yakabuda ichitsigira kurova. Canadian Union yeVashandi Veruzhinji muOntario yabuda mukutsigira, uye nevamwe vakati wandei, kusanganisira-.
JAY: Ko kuUnited States?
BARGHOUTI: MuUnited States hatisati tava nemasangano, asi kune mapoka akawanda akapinda muchikwata ichi. Mumwe muenzaniso ndewechidzidzo chekuramwa kwetsika nemagariro muUS. Inonzi US ACPE. US Campaign yeAcademic and Cultural Boycott yeIsrael ichangobva kuburitsa chirevo chekuti vasvika 500 vatsigiro — vedzidzo nenyanzvi — muUS vachitsigira kuramba uku. Saka nezviyero zveAmerica 500 inhamba diki, asi tichitaura idanho rakakura kumberi.
JAY: Pakave nekutsoropodza kubva mukati meIsrael, kubva kumapurofesa nevadzidzi, kunyanya, vanoshora mutemo weIsrael, senge, semuenzaniso, vaipokana nekurwiswa kweGaza. Asi vamwe veava mapurofesa vari kuti, uri kutiparadzanisa kubva pakuonana, uri chaizvo, semuenzaniso, nekutaura kuti mayunivhesiti ekuMadokero haafanire kunge ane chekuita nemayunivhesiti eIsrael, unopedzisira watsaura vadzidzi veIsrael vanofambira mberi. Ndeipi mhinduro yako kune izvozvo?
BARGHOUTI: Ini ndinofunga vanowedzeredza chikamu chavo munharaunda yezvidzidzo muIsrael. Uye ivo vakanyanya-pakati peIsrael. Ndinoreva kuti nyika inovatenderedza. Zviri pamusoro pekodzero dzePalestine uye kudzvinyirirwa kweIsrael uye kusarongeka uye basa reIsrael academy semubatsiri muhurongwa hwekudzvinyirirwa. Muchokwadi, hapana yunivhesiti yeIsrael yakambobuda ichipokana nebasa, zvachose. Huwandu hwevadzidzi veIsrael vakamboshora basa, kungogara, tisingatauri rusaruraganda muIsrael kana kunyimwa kodzero dzevapoteri, mazana mashoma kubva munharaunda i9,000. Nguva pfupi yadarika, muna 2008, vadzidzi vana vechiJudha-Israel vakatanga chikumbiro chekudaidza mauto eIsrael munharaunda-havana kutombozvidaidza kuti "nzvimbo dzakagarwa"-munzvimbo dzekubvumidza kupinda mumigwagwa yemauto kune vadzidzi vePalestine uye vadzidzi vanoenda. kuzvikoro zvavo namayunivhesiti—chinodikanwa chinorambidzwa zvikurusa chorusununguko rwedzidzo—uye vakachitumira kuvadzidzi vose vane 4 9,000, vachikarira kuti anenge munhu ari wose aizosaina. Chero ani zvake anozviremekedza anozviremekedza anofanirwa kutsigira ichi chakakosha chinodiwa. 407 chete ndivo vakasaina chikumbiro ichi, kubva pazviuru zvipfumbamwe.
JAY:Hameno kutaura chokwadi, nharo dzavo hadzisi dzekuti vacharasa dzimwe ropafadzo. At least handiyo nharo dzavakaita. Nharo yavo ndeyekuti inonetesa ruoko rwavo mukati meIsrael [inonzwika]
BARGHOUTI: Hapana kufamba kwakasara muIsrael. Ivo vanhu vasina basa zvakadaro munharaunda yeIsrael. Kana iwe ukatarisa sarudzo dzeparamende, Israeri iri kukurumidza kuenda kurudyi, uye kune imwe nhanho kune kodzero yefascist mune mamwe mapato muIsrael-uye ini ndiri kushandisa izwi iro nemaune. Kune mapato efascist muIsrael anofanana nemapato efascist muEurope nekumwewo. Uye nzanga yeIsrael iri kuenda kure kurudyi, nekucheneswa kwemadzinza kuchiva izwi rinoshandiswa muzvidzidzo, munhau, muparamende, mumisangano. Zvinoshevedzwa pachena, rusarura pamatanho ese.
ZNetwork inopihwa mari chete kuburikidza nerupo rwevaverengi vayo.
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