Njengoko uphononongo olutsha olwenziwe yiOxfam lufumanisa ukuba awona madoda asibhozo azizityebi alawula ubutyebi obuninzi njengesona siqingatha sihluphekayo soluntu, eli qela lithi linexhala lokuba ukungalingani kobutyebi kuya kuqhubeka nokukhula emva konyulo lukaDonald Trump, amalungu akhe eKhabhinethi anobutyebi obudibeneyo. malunga neebhiliyoni zeerandi ezili-11. Sijonge ukunyuka kukaTrump, kunye nabo bajoyina ulawulo lwakhe, kunye nentatheli ephumelele ibhaso yeRolling Stone uMat Taibbi. Incwadi yakhe entsha iphuma namhlanje, enesihloko esithi "Umongameli we-Insane Clown: Ukhupha kwiSekesi yowama-2016."
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Ewe, njengoko uphononongo olutsha lufumanisa ukuba amadoda asibhozo azizityebi emhlabeni alawula ubutyebi obuninzi njengesona siqingatha sihlwempuzekileyo soluntu, abathandathu kwabasibhozo ababhiliyoni ngabantu baseMelika, kubandakanya uMichael Bloomberg, uBill Gates, uWarren Buffett noJeff Bezos. I-Oxfam ithe ixhalabile ukuba ukungalingani kobutyebi kuya kuqhubeka nokukhula emva konyulo lukaDonald Trump, amalungu akhe eKhabhinethi anobutyebi obudityanisiweyo malunga ne-11 yeebhiliyoni zeedola.
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Ngaphezulu, sidityaniswa ngokuphumelela ibhaso Stone Rolling intatheli uMat Taibbi, obesoloko ebhala ngokunyuka kukaDonald Trump ngexesha lomkhankaso wonyulo luka-2016. Kwincwadi yakhe entsha, ephuma namhlanje, ubhala athi, “Libali lika-Alice kwi-Wonderland, apho ibhiliyoni le-hedonist litsibela phantsi kumngxuma womvundla wezopolitiko zaseMelika kwaye lifumanise ilizwe elikwi-surreal apho umqobo ngamnye olandelelanayo kumandla uwela phambi kwakhe njengomlingo. ” Ewe, incwadi kaMat Taibbi inesihloko UMongameli we-Clown ophambeneyo: Ukuthunyelwa kwiSekesi ka-2016. Njengoko kule veki, uLwesihlanu, ukuvulwa kukamongameli we-45, uDonald Trump, ibekwe, iingcinga zakho, Matt Taibbi?
UFROSTED TAIBBI: Ndiyathetha, akukholeleki. Ndicinga ukuba le yingxaki engazange ibonwe ngaphambili kwiveki yokumiselwa. Ndicinga ukuba asizange sicinge ukuba abanye-oku kuguqulwa kokugqibela, ekupheleni kwento eyayiselelona xesha lolonyulo lwe-craziest kwimbali, kunye nale mpikiswano yaseRashiya kunye nolu hlobo lwengxaki yobukrelekrele obungenakulinganiswa, ngendlela eneneni luhlobo lwe-anti egqibeleleyo. -ukuphela koku, uyazi, intlekele engakholelekiyo yeminyaka embalwa edlulileyo.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Ewe, uMat, ngesihloko, njengoko sisiva ezindabeni ukuba isekisi yokwenyani, uRingling Brothers Circus, sele eza ku-
UFROSTED TAIBBI: Ukucima.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: -kuvalwe emva kweminyaka eyi-146-
UFROSTED TAIBBI: Ukugqibelela, akunjalo?
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: -Usifumene njani isihloko, wenze isigqibo ngesihloko sencwadi?
UFROSTED TAIBBI: Owu, bendifuna into echuliweyo, eneneni. Hayi, ndiyathetha, ngokunyaniseka, kuyahlekisa. Ukuba umongameli onyuliweyo kunye nabalandeli bakhe banezikhalazo malunga nesihloko, kufuneka basole uTrump ngokwakhe, kuba eneneni ndifunde okuninzi malunga nokubukela uDonald Trump kule minyaka imbalwa idlulileyo. Akukho sizathu sobuqili konke kwimeko yangoku. Ke, ndiye ndacinga oku-ukuba, uyazi, isihloko sibonakalisa indlela okwenzeka ngayo kule minyaka imbalwa idlulileyo ibingumxube ombi kakhulu nohlekisayo. Kwaye yayinaloo mxholo wemoto yeclown, ngokunjalo, ndandifuna uhlobo lwereferensi.
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Ngoko, ngaphezu kweminyaka engama-40 eyadlulayo, iphephancwadi lakho, Stone Rolling, i-Chronicle ye-Nixon's campaign in 1972. Kukho ukuhambelana, kuba ngoku unokuvulwa apho, ngoku, okwangoku, amalungu angama-42, amalungu e-Democratic congressmembers, njengenye kwabahlanu, abayi kubakho. Yaye elo nani ngokuqinisekileyo lisenokunyuka. Ekuphela kwento esayibonayo—kuphela ixesha esabona ngalo into enjengale yaba nguNixon, 1972—1973, ekusungulweni kwakhe, phakathi kwemfazwe. Kwakhona lixesha lokuba IWashington Post ingxelo yokuba ukuthandwa kukaDonald Trump-ngaphezu kwama-50 ekhulwini abantu abanelisekanga yinto ayenzayo-iphantsi kweminyaka engama-40.
UFROSTED TAIBBI: Kunene.
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Ke thetha ngento oyifumeneyo kulo nyaka, kwaye ngakumbi ngoku kolu gqatso lwamalungu eKhabhinethi, ngoobani la malungu eKhabhinethi, amele esona sinhanha kwiKhabhinethi kwimbali yaseMelika-yintoni, i-11 yeebhiliyoni zeerandi, ubutyebi babo obudibeneyo?
UFROSTED TAIBBI: Ngokuqinisekileyo, ewe. Ukubuyela nje ekuqaleni, ndiyathetha, ewe, ngokucacileyo, uyazi, ndiyaligubungela iphulo Stone Rolling iphephancwadi. Lo ngomnye wemisebenzi ebalaseleyo emhlabeni. Kufana nokuba yiDread Pirate Roberts. Kwaye esi sisithethe esibuyela emva yonke indlela ukuya, uyazi, uHunter Thompson kwaye xa wayegubungela uRichard Nixon, kwaye ekugqibeleni wayihlanganisa kwincwadi ebizwa ngokuba Uloyiko kunye neNzondo kuMzila wePhulo. Kwaye olo yayiluhlobo lomgangatho wegolide, ndiyacinga, kwaye iya kuhlala injalo, yokubhalwa kwephulo. Kwaye ndicinga ukuba yintoni eyenza uthotho lwamanqaku kunye nobugcisa bencwadi, ngokuchasene nohlobo nje lokubhalwa kweemagazini, kukuba u-Thompson wayexakeke ngokoqobo ngendlela eyoyikeka neyonyanyekayo ngayo uNixon, ngendlela engazange ibekho omnye wezopolitiko owamchukumisayo. Ubomi bakhe bonke, kungakhathaliseki ukuba ngubani owabhala ngaye, nokuba nguCarter okanye, uyazi, noGeorge Bush, kwakungeyonto inye. Wayephantse wafana nobudlelwane bothando noNixon. Kwaye olo hlobo lokukhathazeka yinto ongenakukwazi ukuyinyanzela. Unokuba unayo okanye awunayo.
Andinakuze ndizithelekise noHunter Thompson. Ndicinga ukuba luthelekiso olungathandekiyo kuye nawuphi na umbhali, kodwa ndicinga ukuba ndiyayiqonda kancinci into awayehamba ngayo noNixon. Ndivakalelwa kancinci ngendlela efanayo malunga neTrump. U—uyazi, yayiluhlobo lwentiyo ekuqaleni, eneneni, xa ndandiqala ukumbona kumzila womkhankaso. Ungumntu onomdla, ogxothayo, uyoyikeka, ungumntu ombi kakhulu. Kwaye ngandlela ithile, lenza ukuba eli bali lichukumise ngokumangalisayo limlandele. Ke, uyazi, ndicinga ukuba, kum, yeyona nto ibalaseleyo ngalo nyaka uphelileyo, nguTrump ngokwakhe, ungumntu okhethekileyo kweli xesha lethu. Uluhlobo lwefoyile egqibeleleyo yokubonisa yonke into egqithisileyo kunye nengcolileyo kwaye ilizothe kwaye ayinancasa kwaye inexabiso eliphantsi kwaye ibawa ngenkcubeko yaseMelika. Usisipili esigqibeleleyo sokubonakalisa yonke into malunga noluntu lwethu.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Nangona kunjalo, inyaniso kukuba ufumene inani elikhulu kangaka leevoti. Kwaye enye yezinto othethe ngazo ayinguye kuphela, kodwa izihlwele aziqokelele kunye nobudlelwane bazo kuwe kunye neentatheli, ngokunjalo.
UFROSTED TAIBBI: Kunene.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Ngaba ungathetha ngaloo nto? Kuba loo nto ayizange ifunyanwe kakhulu ngabashicileli bendlela bona, ngokwabo, abaphathwa ngayo kwezi ndibano zikaTrump.
UFROSTED TAIBBI: Ewe, kwaye ndicinga ukuba loo nto yayiluhlobo lolongamelo olukhulu ngamajelo eendaba amaninzi. UTrump-jonga, bonyulwa njani abezopolitiko? Kukho ifomyula elula kakhulu elandelwa ngabantu kumacala omabini iminyaka. Baxelela abantu ukuba, uyazi, izinto zimbi, kwaye siza kukunika umntu onetyala. Uyazi, ngasekunene, ngokwesiko bakhomba iminwe kwabancinci kunye nabasemzini. Kwaye ngakwesobunxele, sikhomba kwiinkampani, uyazi, iinkampani ze-pharma, iinkampani ze-inshurensi, njl., njl.
UTrump wenza zonke ezo zinto. Wazikhethela zonke ezo bhogeymen, zombini i-liberal kunye ne-conservative bogeymen, kodwa wenza nenkqubo yephulo ngokwayo i-villain. Uthe, "Aba bantu, aba bacholacholi, aba banikeli, la maqela mabini agqwesileyo ezopolitiko, achasene nani." Kwaye ngelishwa kuthi thina ntatheli, ibisithi kuphela abantu belo qela lithile ebebekweli gumbi ngexesha lemisitho. Ke into awayeza kuyenza kukuba athi, “Jonga aba bantu. Jonga aba bancancisa igazi. Uyazi, abakaze beze kude kangako kumsitho. Kwaye babengafuni ukuza. Bonke bathi ndiza kulahlekelwa,” njalo njalo, njalo njalo. Kwaye izihlwele zazijika zijonge kuthi zize ziqalise, uyazi, ukufutha nokubhomboloza. Kwaye usenze inxalenye yolu hlobo WWE isenzo. Kwaye yayi-ngendlela ethile, yayiyiholo yeqonga eqaqambileyo. Kwaye ndicinga ukuba abantu kwinqwelomoya yephulo abazange bakuqonde ukubaluleka koko wayekwenza. Wayeyigqwetha inkqubo. Kwaye yayisebenza ngokwenene.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Kodwa ngokwesakhono sakho nokuba udliwanondlebe nabanye babaxhasi bakaTrump, ubunobunzima obuninzi, akunjalo?
UFROSTED TAIBBI: Ngokuqinisekileyo, ngokuqinisekileyo. Kwaye le yinto, ukuba nobulungisa, ebisenzeka ngokuthe ngcembe okwethutyana ngoku. Ndiyathetha, ndicinga ukuba iintatheli ziye zanda ukungathandwa ngabantu, i-quote-unquote, "i-flyover America." Kuhlala kunzima, uyazi, uhlobo lweentlobo zeendaba zonxweme ukwenza udliwanondlebe nabantu kwilizwe elibomvu laseMelika. Kodwa ngeli xesha, ndiye ndaphumelela umyinge omnye kwabahlanu ekwenzeni abantu bathethe nam. Uyazi, xa besiva apho ndisebenza khona, ngamanye amaxesha kuye kube kubi ngakumbi kunoko. Ngoko, kwakukho impatho-gadalala eninzi, ingqumbo. Uyazi, kodwa ezinye zazo, ukuba zilungile, zathethelelwa. Ndicinga ukuba uninzi lwaba bantu baziva bengcatshiwe ngamajelo eendaba, hayi nje amajelo eendaba enkululeko, onke amajelo eendaba. Nditsho nabantu abavela kupapasho olugcinayo kunye nezikhululo zikamabonwakude babenobunzima bokunxibelelana nabavoti bakaTrump.
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Ndiyathetha, loo msindo umelwe kwindibano kaBernie Sanders izolo ngaphandle kweDetroit. Ubune 10,000 yabantu abafuna ukuba aca, UMthetho wokuNakekela okufikelelekayo, awuyi kurhoxiswa, kwaye inani labo ngokwenene babengabaxhasi bakaTrump, ngoku besoyika kakhulu.
UFROSTED TAIBBI: Ewe, kwaye kuyacaca-kukho ukuwela phakathi komsindo kwicala likaTrump kunye nomsindo ophembelele iphulo likaSanders. Ndicinga ukuba yayiyinto eyabonwa ngumntu wonke owayelandela eli phulo kwasekuqaleni. Kodwa siye sacotha ukuqonda ukuba omnye waloo msindo wawujoliswe kuthi.
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Ngexesha lengxoxo kamongameli ngo-Okthobha, u-Hillary Clinton wabuzwa malunga nomxholo we-imeyile ekhutshwe yi-WikiLeaks ekutyholwa ukuba ikhutshwe kwi-akhawunti yesihlalo sakhe sephulo, uJohn Podesta. Ezo imeyile zibandakanya izicatshulwa kwiintetho zakhe ezihlawulwayo kuGoldman Sachs kunye nezinye iifemu zaseWall Street. Ngexesha lengxoxo, uDonald Trump walinganisela kwiintetho zikaClinton ezivuzayo.
HLALUTYA I-TRUMP: Ubhaqwe bubuxoki obupheleleyo. Amaphepha akhe aphuma esiya kubo bonke abahlobo bakhe abasezibhankini, uGoldman Sachs kunye nabo bonke abanye abantu. Kwaye wathetha izinto-iWikiLeaks-esandula kuphuma. Uye waxoka.
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Ke, kukho uDonald Trump. Thetha ngokubaluleka koku.
UFROSTED TAIBBI: Ewe, uTrump wenza uGoldman Sachs ukuba abe ngumntu okhohlakeleyo kwangoko kwiphulo. Wayecacisa ngokugqithiseleyo malunga nalo lonke ixesha lomkhankaso, ukususela ngoJanuwari noFebruwari, xa wayesebenzisa njengeklabhu ukubetha uTed Cruz, kuba bobabini umfazi wakhe-umfazi kaCruz kunye noCruz ngokwakhe babenobudlelwane bezemali kuGoldman Sachs. Uthe, "I-Cruz ilawulwa ngokupheleleyo nguGoldman Sachs. UHillary ulawulwa ngokupheleleyo nguGoldman Sachs. Uyazi, ndiyabazi abo bantu baseGoldman Sachs. Andizukuba ngunodoli kaGoldman. " Ngokwenene waqhuba isikhangiso sephulo, isikhangiso se-30-yesibini somkhankaso, sisondele kakhulu kunyulo, olukhankanyiweyo ngokukodwa kwiibhanki zeGoldman kunye neWall Street.
Kwaye emva koko ujike kanye emva konyulo, kwaye uzisa abantu abahlanu abavela eGoldman Sachs, okanye abane ababesakuba yiGoldmanites kunye negqwetha laseGoldman, kwi-White House. Ke oku, uyazi, ukuchasana kwakho kwangoko, okucacileyo kwintetho yakhe yephulo. Uyazi, wathetha ngokukhuculula umgxobhozo, kwaye into yokuqala awayenzayo kukuzalisa ngabantu ababephuma kwaloo nkampani.
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Kulungile, qhubeka uthetha ngaloo nto. Unaye uSteve Mnuchin-
UFROSTED TAIBBI: Kunene.
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: —esisaziyo ngoku, ubutyebi bakhe bunokuba ngaphezu kwezigidi ezingama-400 zeedola, unobhala wezonondyebo.
UFROSTED TAIBBI: Kulungile, ewe.
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: USteve Bannon, ovela eBreitbart, umlweli welizwe elimhlophe, iwebhusayithi ye-white supremacist, iwebhusayithi yeendaba, naye wayengumgcini webhanki waseGoldman. Abanye abantu baqalisa ukuthetha—yintoni leyo?—Urhulumente uSachs, kungekhona uGoldman Sachs.
UFROSTED TAIBBI: Kunene. Kwaye masibe nobulungisa. UGoldman ubesoloko enobukho obukhulu kurhulumente kwihlabathi liphela, hayi eMelika kuphela. Bakhe baba ngoongameli beBhanki yehlabathi. Bakhe baba ngoomongameli, uyazi, iBhanki ye-EC kunye neBhanki yaseCanada. Uyazi, bakhokela amaninzi amasebe e-Federal Reserve, njl., njl. Kodwa ngoku akukhona nje-ayikho nje uMnuchin. Ayisiyo iBannon kuphela. Kukwakho noGary Cohn, owayengowesibini eGoldman Sachs emva kukaLloyd Blankfein. Ngapha koko, yayiziintloko ezisebenzisanayo zeGoldman Sachs kuyo yonke le minyaka yengxaki. UCohn ngoku ungumcebisi oyintloko wezoqoqosho kuDonald Trump; uyintloko ye NEC. Kukho uJay Clayton, owayeligqwetha likaGoldman. Wayesebenzela uSullivan & Cromwell, kodwa wayemele uGoldman. Anthony Scaramucci, ongomnye owayesakuba yiGoldmanite, ngoku ongumcebisi oyintloko kaTrump. Ke kukho ubuncinci-ubuncinci abantu abahlanu abakwizikhundla eziphezulu sele bekwi-White House abanobudlelwane noGoldman Sachs. Kwaye kwakhona, le nkampani wayigxeka ngokukodwa ngexesha lephulo.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Bendifuna ukukubuza ngeRussia. Kwimpelaveki, siye saxabana noJohn Lewis esithi ukholelwa ukuba uTrump akayena umongameli osemthethweni, ngenxa yokungenelela kweRussia kunyulo. Ukuthatha kwakho oko? Kodwa kwakhona, uwuphakamisile umba wokuba abantu baseMelika bayalibala ngendima ye-United States yokugxuphuleka kwezopolitiko zangaphakathi zaseRussia ngaphambili.
UFROSTED TAIBBI: Ewe, ndicinga ukuba abantu, banokufuna ukujonga emva ngoJulayi 1996, kuqweqwe lwe ixesha iphephancwadi, ngokwenene. Kwakukho iqweqwe elithi "Yanks to the Rescue." Kwaye yayimalunga nendlela esithumele ngayo abacebisi baseMelika ukuba basindise iphulo lokuphinda unyulo luka-Boris Yeltsin. Sathetha ngokukhululekileyo malunga nendlela esithathe inxaxheba ngayo ekuncedeni u-Boris Yeltsin ukuba adlule umceli mngeni wakhe wamakomanisi, kungekhona nje ngo-1996, kodwa ngo-1993 ngexesha lokuvota. Ndandilapho ngalo lonke elo xesha, ngoko ndiyazi ukuba saba nempembelelo enkulu kwezopolitiko zaseRashiya, kungekuphela nje ngexesha lamaphulo onyulo, kodwa nangokucebisa urhulumente waseYeltsin malunga nendlela yokwenza izinto ezinjengokuthengisa uqoqosho lwabucala. Ke, babebaninzi abantu phaya eRussia, kulo lonke ilizwe, abathi xa becinga ngezinto ezinje ngendlela endingasenayo ngayo i-inshorensi yezempilo, okanye andinayo imfundo yasimahla, bandikhombe ngomnwe. thina ngenxa yoko, kuba enye loo nto yayibangelwe yimigaqo-nkqubo esiyincomeleyo. Ke, ngumxholo ongaphantsi ekusenokwenzeka ukuba uninzi lwabantu baseMelika abangawuqondiyo, kuba awuzange ubhengezwe kakhulu apha, kodwa ngokuqinisekileyo yinto onokucinga ngayo.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Kwaye indlela osabela ngayo kwizityholo zokugxuphuleka kweRussia apha?
UFROSTED TAIBBI: Ngokuqinisekileyo. Ewe, ndiyathetha, ndithethe nabantu abanenqanaba eliphezulu lokuzithemba ukuba iRussia iye yagqekeza DNC, kwaye ke bacinga ukuba kunokwenzeka ukuba bayidlulisele kwiWikiLeaks. Kodwa ngaphaya koko, ndicinga ukuba, kulapho siqala khona ukungena kule ndawo engwevu, apho kuyingozi kakhulu ukuba iintatheli ziqalise ukwenza iinkcazo kunye neengcamango malunga nokuba yintoni enokuthi yenzeke okanye engazange yenzeke, ngenxa yokuba iRashiya iqhekeza kwaye izama ukuphembelela unyulo. kunye noDonald Trump ukuba kuyo, kukho umyalelo wobukhulu bomahluko phakathi kwezo zinto zimbini. Kwaye ndicinga ukuba badityaniswa kancinci kumajelo eendaba, kwaye kufuneka silumke xa sitsho ngaphambi kokuba sazi ukuba zithini na izibakala. Ndiyathetha, inokuba yinyani, kodwa ndicinga ukuba sifuna uphando olupheleleyo ukuze sazi ukuba kutheni abantu besithi bayayikholelwa loo nto.
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Wena mva nje iklebhile IWashington Post ngento oyithathe njengowona msebenzi wophando umbi kakhulu. Cacisa.
UFROSTED TAIBBI: Ewe. Uyazi, babaleka oku ibali malunga neqela elibizwa ngokuba yiPropOrNot-eluhlobo lwe-cyberteam yabucala, ndiyaqikelela. Babanga ukuba bachonge imithombo emitsha ezimeleyo engama-200 abayibizayo, uyazi, "izidenge eziluncedo" ekuxhaseni ilizwe laseRussia. Kwaye ngempazamo, okanye mhlawumbi hayi ngebhaqo, phantse zonke ezo ndawo zaziyimibutho eyaziwayo yemithombo yeendaba. Uyazi, yayiliqhekeza elingenamsebenzi lokuxela ukuba i isikhundla wenze. Kwaye ukuzingxengxeza kwabo yayikukuba babengazicebisi ngokuphandle ezi zityholo kwaye babengazincomeli, kodwa bazinxulumanisa nazo, kwaye nabani na wayenokuzijonga. Kwaye, ewe, yindlela-eso siphelo sijikeleza, uyazi, imigangatho eqhelekileyo yenyani esinayo kumajelo eendaba. Kwaye ndicinga ukuba luhlobo lwento endixhalabileyo malunga nale ntetho yaseRashiya, kukuba sigqithise xa abantu bekholelwa izinto mhlawumbi ezingeyonyani.
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Ndandifuna ukuya kuDonald Trump ethetha kwinkomfa yeendaba, ndisithi mhlawumbi yiRashiya eyaqhekeza kwiiseva ze-DNC kwaye yagqekeza ii-imeyile zikaJohn Podesta.
PRESIDENT-UNYULO HLALUTYA I-TRUMP: Ngokubhekiselele ekuqhekezeni, ndicinga ukuba yayiyiRashiya. Kodwa ndicinga ukuba nathi sigqekezwa ngamanye amazwe kunye nabanye abantu. Kwaye ndingayithetha loo nto, uyazi, xa-xa silahlekelwe ngamagama azizigidi ezingama-22 nayo yonke enye into eye yaqhekezwa mva nje, abakhange benze nto inkulu ngaloo nto. Yayiyinto engaqhelekanga leyo. Oko kusenokwenzeka ukuba yayiyiTshayina. Siye-sinobuqhetseba obuninzi obuqhubekayo.
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Ke, uTrump kamva wanyanzelisa ukuba akanamali-mboleko okanye ukusebenzelana kweshishini neRussia. Ewe, umbuzo wokwenyani sisixa semali yaseRashiya kwiiprojekthi zakhe zophuhliso nalapha eUnited States—
UFROSTED TAIBBI: Kunene.
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: -ukusuka kwi-Trump SoHo yedolophu, xa iibhanki-yintoni, utyala into efana nebhiliyoni kunye nesiqingatha seedola kumaziko emali angama-150, njengoko kuye kwabikwa. Kwaye xa engakwazi ukufumana imigca yekhredithi, i-oligarchs yaseRashiya yayiyindawo efanelekileyo yokujika. Kodwa lo mbandela, oku-kwezi ntsuku zimbalwa zidlulileyo, ubhengezwe mhlawumbi, uyazi, NATO akufunekanga ibekho. Uye wathi-uthethe ngokususa izohlwayo ngokuchasene neRussia. Thetha ngayo yonke le nto.
UFROSTED TAIBBI: Ewe, ndiyathetha, ndicinga ukuba kufuneka sifikelele emazantsi ayo. Kwaye ngokucacileyo-
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Ngaba ucinga ukuba uya kukhokela uphando?
UFROSTED TAIBBI: Hayi, andizange ndiyicinge loo nto. Andizange ndiwubambe umphefumlo wam ukuba yenzeke loo nto.
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Ngaba ucinga ukuba uRex Tillerson, i CEO kwe-
UFROSTED TAIBBI: Hayi, andi—andicingi njalo.
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: -Exxon, inkampani yakhe inesixa esikhulu sokuzuza-
UFROSTED TAIBBI: Kuqiniseke.
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: -ukuba izohlwayo ezichasene neRussia zisusiwe?
UFROSTED TAIBBI: Kanjalo. Ndiyathetha, jonga, yinkampani yeoli. Kwaye ukusebenzelana kwangaphantsi komhlaba phakathi kwe-ExxonMobil kunye nantoni na, uyazi, i-oligarchy yaseRashiya, ndiqinisekile ukuba yiwebhu ephothiweyo ekufuneka sifike ezantsi kwayo. Kodwa ndiyacinga, ngandlela ithile, ngandlela ithile, kufuneka kubekho uhlobo lophando oluzimeleyo. Nokuba, uyazi, abanye abantu kwiSenethi banokoyiswa-uyazi, sinayo le komiti yezobuntlola edibeneyo kwiSenethi ekutyholwa ukuba iza kuba namandla e-subpoena kwaye kutyholwa ukuba iza kukwazi ukwenza udliwano-ndlebe nabantu malunga nento eqhubekayo. . Kodwa, uyazi, ngumbuzo ongxamisekileyo.
Ngokucacileyo-enye yezinto eziye zacaca kwezi veki zidlulileyo kukuba iinkonzo zethu zobuntlola zikholelwa ukuba uTrump unobudlelwane obuthile kwaye bekukho uhlobo oluthile lobudlelwane. quid pro quo kunyaka ophelileyo. Bakholelwa ukuba yinyani leyo, okanye bayibeka apho ngesizathu esithile. Kwaye kufuneka sifikelele ezantsi kwayo, ngendlela enye okanye enye. Ukuba liphulo le-disinformation, kufuneka siyazi loo nto. Kwaye ukuba yinyani, kufuneka siyazi loo nto, kuba akukho nto ibaluleke ngakumbi kunomntu oyekelelweyo ukuba abe ngumongameli wase-United States.
JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Matt, bendifuna ukukubuza-incwadi yakho ngokusisiseko yimbali yexesha lakho kumzila wephulo, kodwa wothukile, ngokunjalo, ngokuphumelela kukaDonald Trump, akunjalo? Thetha ngaloo nto kwaye—bangaphi na abantu abayiphosisile.
UFROSTED TAIBBI: Ewe, luhlobo lwesiphene esikhulu kwincwadi, kwisiqingatha sesibini, kuba ngokwenene ndabona ukususela ekuqaleni-ndandilindele into efana neTrump ukuba yenzeke ixesha elide, ixesha elide. Ndithetha ukuba, eneneni kukho isicatshulwa kwincwadi endiyibhale kwiminyaka eli-10 eyadlulayo, kule ncwadi, malunga nokuba, uyazi, abantu babekhupha imithombo yeendaba eqhelekileyo, kwaye babeguqukela kulwalathiso olungakumbi, kwaye kwakuza kuza. ixesha apho babeza kusivalela ngaphandle ngokupheleleyo. Ndaze ndayibona isiza. Kwaye ndabona, kwangethuba kwiphulo, ukuba uTrump-zange ndicinge ukuba kukho nabani na ongomnye oza kuba ngumtyunjwa.
Kodwa ndakhohliswa, ndicinga ukuba, kwisiqingatha sesibini sephulo, njengokuba abantu abaninzi babenjalo, ngamanani okuvota kwaye kwakhona-kwakukho utshintsho oluncinci kwiqhinga lakhe, apho wayebonakala ehambela kude. ukusuka kwimixholo eye yaphumelela kuye ngexesha lonyaka wokuqala, kwaye wayezama le nto entsha ephambeneyo, ethetha malunga nendlela awayeza kuhlangula ngayo-yiba ngumhlanguli woluntu lwase-Afrika-American kunye nayo yonke loo nto. Ndandicinga ukuba elo yayilinyathelo elibi, eliyintlekele yaye wayeza kuphulukana naye elunyulweni. Kwavela ukuba iphumelele unyulo, kuba yambuyisela kwimo yakhe, i-quote-unquote, "amaRiphabhlikhi aqhelekileyo," abangafuni ukuzicingela njengabacalucalulo. Ke, kwaba yile ntshukumo iqaqambileyo eyamncedayo ukwakha umfelandawonye, yena ngokwakhe, uyazi, ngekhe akwazi ukuba yedwa. Wayefuna uncedo lukaSteve Bannon ukwenza oko.
Kwaye andizange ndisibone eso siphumo siza, kwaye ndicinga ukuba uninzi lweentatheli azizange, kuba-kwaye le yeyona ngxaki iphambili ngengxelo yephulo. Thina nje-asikho phandle ngokwaneleyo ukuthetha nabantu. Sithanda ukuchitha lonke ixesha lethu kunye nezinye iintatheli kunye nabanye abezopolitiko kunye nabanye abavoti. Asazi-asikho ngaphandle ngokomzimba sithatha iqondo lokushisa labavoti ngokwaneleyo, kwaye yiyo loo nto izinto ezifana ne-Trump phenomenon zingenzeka kwaye zisimangalisa.
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Ewe, Matt Taibbi, iingcinga zokugqibela, njengoko ubucinga ngasemva kuwo wonke umsebenzi wakho walo nyaka uphelileyo? Sikule veki yokumiselwa.
UFROSTED TAIBBI: Ewe, ndiyathetha, eli lelona bali lezopolitiko lingaqhelekanga, ndiyacinga, kwimbali yethu. Andiqondi ukuba nantoni na eyakha-kweli nqanaba, yakha yenzeke ngaphambili. UTrump-into ekufuneka abantu bayikhumbule ngoTrump kukuba-boyikekile ngoku, kodwa kufuneka bakhumbule nokuba eli yayilibali elingaqhelekanga malunga nendlela idemokhrasi, ngendlela engaqhelekanga, esebenza ngayo. Wangena kuzo zonke ezi maleko zahlukeneyo, ezi zithintelo kumandla eziye zaphoswa kubantu abaqhelekileyo. Kwaye wayengumntu wangaphandle wokwenyani, owathi ngandlel’ ithile wadlula kuyo yonke loo miqobo, ngayo yonke le mikroba sasiyishiye ivuliwe. Kwaye ndicinga ukuba libali elimangalisayo ekufuneka sigxile kulo. Yenzeka njani loo nto?
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Ubhale umsebenzi wakho kwincwadi yakho Ukwahlulahlula. Sibona uhlobo lwentshukumo enkulu ephuhlayo ngoku. Izolo eNew York, intlanganiso enkulu ecwangcisa ukunikezelwa kukaDonald Trump ngoLwesine ebusuku-
UFROSTED TAIBBI: Kuqiniseke.
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: -Ngaphandle kweTrump Tower. Sibone amawaka-waka abantu ejikeleza ilizwe malunga nemiba eyahlukeneyo, uqhanqalazo olukhulu. Uqhankqalazo lwabasetyhini lucwangciselwe uMgqibelo, usuku olusemva kokumiselwa.
UFROSTED TAIBBI: Ewe, hayi, ndicinga ukuba eli lixesha apho abantu kufuneka benze loo nto. Le yi-kwakhona, yintlekele engenakuthelekiswa nanto. Ukuba nayiphi na yezi zinto malunga neRussia iyinyani, abantu kufuneka benze nantoni na abanokuyenza ukumthintela ekubeni ngumongameli, okanye ubuncinci bazame ukumtyhola ngokukhawuleza. Kwaye, uyazi, kwakhona, kufuneka sithathe umzekelo wento eyenziwa ngabaxhasi bakaTrump. Bayityeshela imigudu yokumfaka eofisini. Kwaye ndicinga ukuba kukubonisa ukuba abantu balungelelaniswe ngokwaneleyo, banokufezekisa nantoni na. Kwaye ke, bona-abantu kwelinye icala kufuneka bathathe eso sifundo.
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Matt Taibbi, intatheli ephumelele ibhaso kunye Stone Rolling iphephancwadi. Incwadi yakhe entsha, esanda kupapashwa namhlanje, UMongameli we-Clown ophambeneyo: Ukuthunyelwa kwiSekesi ka-2016. Yi le Intando yeninzi Ngoku! Emva komzuzu.
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Nikela