David Barsamian: Musi wa20 Kurume, iyo UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change yakapa mushumo wayo wazvino. Ongororo itsva yeIPCC kubva kumasaenzi epamusoro yakayambira kuti pane nguva shoma yekurasikirwa mukugadzirisa dambudziko remamiriro ekunze. Munyori Mukuru weUN, Antonio Guterres akati, โKukwira kwetembiricha muhafu yezana remakore rapfuura kwakakwira zvikuru mumakore 2,000 2. Kabhoni dhaikisaidhi yakanyungudika iri pakakwirira mukati memakore anosvika mamiriyoni maviri. Bomba renguva yemamiriro ekunze riri kufamba. " PaCOP 27 akati, โTiri mumugwagwa mukuru unoenda kugehena netsoka yedu ichiri paaccelerator. Ndiyo nyaya inotsanangura yezera redu. Ndiro denho huru yezana redu ramakore.โ Mubvunzo wangu kwauri ndewekuti: Iwe ungafunga kuti kupona kungave nyaya inotyisa, asi nei pasina pfungwa huru yekukurumidzira mukugadzirisa nenzira yakakura?
Noam Chomski: Aive chirevo chakasimba chaGuterres. Ndinofunga kuti inogona kuramba yakasimba. Haisati iri bedzi nhau inotsanangura yezana rino ramakore, asi yenhau yavanhu. Isu tave iye zvino, sezvaanotaura, pane imwe nguva yatichasarudza kana kuyedza kwevanhu paPasi kuchaenderera mune chero chimiro chinozivikanwa. Chirevo chacho chakanga chakajeka uye chakajeka. Tave kusvika padanho rekuti maitiro asingadzoreki achatanga kufamba. Izvo hazvireve kuti munhu wese achafa mangwana, asi isu tichapfuura tipping mapoinzi pasina chimwe chingaitwa, uko kuri kungodzikira kune njodzi.
Saka hungu, mubvunzo wekupona kwerudzi rwupi norwupi rwenzanga yavanhu yakarongeka. Nechekare pane zviratidzo zvakawanda zvengozi yakanyanyisa uye kutyisidzira, kusvika pari zvino zvinenge zvakazara munyika dzave nechikamu chidiki mukugadzira njodzi. Zvinowanzotaurwa, uye nenzira kwayo, kuti nyika dzakapfuma dzakagadzira njodzi uye nyika dzine urombo ndidzo dzakabatwa, asi chaizvoizvo zvishoma zvishoma pane izvozvo. Vapfumi vari munyika dzakapfuma ndivo vakonzera njodzi uye vamwe vose, kusanganisira varombo vari munyika dzakapfuma, vakatarisana nematambudziko.
Saka chii chiri kuitika? Zvakanaka, tora United States nemapato ayo maviri ezvematongerwo enyika. Bato rimwe rinoramba 100%. Kuchinja kwemamiriro ekunze hakusi kuitika kana, kana zviri kuitika, harisi bhizinesi redu. Iyo Inflation Reduction Act chaive chiitiko chemamiriro ekunze icho Biden akakwanisa kupfuudza, kunyange hazvo Congress yakadzikisira. Hapana kana Republican akavhotera. Kwete mumwe. Hapana Republican ichavhotera chero chinhu chinokuvadza purofiti yevapfumi nevemakambani chikamu, chavanoshandira zvisina kunaka.
Tinofanira kuyeuka kuti izvi hazvina kuvakwa mukati. Dzokera ku2008 apo Senator John McCain aikwikwidza semutungamiri wenyika. Aiva nepurogiramu duku yemamiriro ekunze. Kwete zvakawanda, asi chimwe chinhu. Congress, kusanganisira maRepublicans, yaifunga kuita chimwe chinhu pamusoro pezvaizivikanwa nemunhu wese kuti idambudziko raiuya. Koch Brothers 'hombe yesimba conglomerate yakawana mhepo nezvazvo. Vakanga vashanda kwemakore kuti vave nechokwadi chokuti maRepublican aizotsigira nokuvimbika mushandirapamwe wavo wekuparadza budiriro yevanhu. Apa paive nekutsauka. Vakatanga mushandirapamwe wakakura, kupa chiokomuhomwe, kutyisidzira, kuongorora nyeredzi, kukurudzira kuti vadzose maRepublicans mukuramba zvachose, uye vakabudirira.
Kubva ipapo, ibato rekutanga rinoramba. Muchikamu chekupedzisira cheRepublican VaTrump vasati vatora chigaro muna 2016, vese vepamusoro veRepublican vari kukwikwidza musarudzo yemutungamiri wenyika, vangave vakati hapana kudziya kwepasirese kana kuti pamwe kuripo, asi harisi bhizinesi redu. Musiyano muduku mumwe, akarumbidzwa zvikuru nomurangariro wakasununguka, akanga ari John Kasich, gavhuna weOhio. Uye chaizvoizvo akanga akaipisisa kupfuura vose. Zvaakataura ndezvekuti: hongu, kudziya kwepasi kuri kuitika. Chokwadi, vanhu vari kupawo kwairi. Asi isu muOhio tiri kuzoshandisa marasha edu takasununguka uye pasina kukumbira ruregerero. Akapiwa rukudzo rukuru zvokuti akakokwa kuzotaura pagungano rinotevera reDemocratics. Zvakanaka, ndiro rimwe remapato maviri ezvematongerwo enyika. Kwete chiratidzo chekutsauka pakati pavo kubva: ngatimhanyei kukuparadzwa kuitira kuti tive nechokwadi chekuti dunhu redu rakapfuma uye rine simba sezvinobvira.
Zvino, zvakadini nerimwe bato? Paive nedanho raBernie Sanders, kuratidzira kweSunrise Movement, uye kunyangwe Joe Biden pakutanga aive nehurongwa hwemamiriro ekunze ane mwero - zvisina kukwana, asi nhanho hombe kumberi kubva kune chero chinhu chakapfuura. Izvo, zvakadaro, zvaizotemwa, nhanho nhanho, ne100% Republican inopikisa, uye akati wandei ekurudyi maDemocrats, Joe Manchin naKyrsten Sinema. Chakazobuda inyaya yeInflation Reduction Act, iyo yaigona chete kupfuudza nekupa zvipo kumakambani emagetsi.
Zvinounza pamberi pekupedzisira kupengesa kwechimiro chesangano redu. Kana iwe uchida kurega kuparadza nyika uye hupenyu hwevanhu paNyika, unofanirwa kupa chiokomuhomwe kune vapfumi nevane simba, saka pamwe vachauya. Kana tikavapa zvihwitsi zvakakwana, pamwe vangarega kuuraya vanhu. Ndiyo capitalism ine hutsinye. Kana muchida kuita chero chinhu, munofanira kupa chiokomuhomwe kune varidzi venzvimbo.
Uye tarisa zviri kuitika. Mitengo yemafuta haichaonekwi uye makambani emagetsi anoti: Tine hurombo vakomana, hapasisina simba rakasimba. Tinoita mari yakawanda nekukuparadzai. Kunyange BP, kambani imwe yakanga yava kutanga kuita chimwe chinhu, chaizvoizvo yakati: Aiwa, tinoita purofiti yakawanda nokuparadza zvinhu zvose, saka tichazviita.
Zvakava pachena pamusangano weGlasgow COP. John Kerry, mumiriri wemamiriro ekunze eUS, akafara. Akatoti tahwina. Iye zvino tine makambani kudivi redu. Tingarasikirwa sei? Eya, pakanga pane mashoko omuzasi maduku akanongedzerwa nenyanzvi yezvemari yezvamatongerwe enyika Adam Tooze. Akabvuma kuti, hongu, vazvitaura asi nemamiriro maviri. Imwe, tichabatana newe chero zviine pundutso. Chechipiri, panofanira kuva nevimbiso yepasi rose yekuti, kana tikatambura chero kurasikirwa, muteresi anoivhara. Ndiyo inonzi free enterprise. Nechimiro chesangano chakadaro, zvichava zvakaoma kubuda mune izvi.
Saka, manejimendi eBiden ari kuitei? Ngatitorei chirongwa cheWillow. Parizvino, iri kubvumira ConocoPhillips kuvhura purojekiti hombe muAlaska, iyo ichaunza online mamwe mafuta efossil kwemakumi emakore. Vari kushandisa nzira dzinozivikanwa kuomesa Alaska permafrost. Imwe yengozi huru ndeyokuti permafrost, iyo inofukidza huwandu hukuru hwemafuta ezvicherwa akavanzika, iri kunyunguduka, ichitumira magasi egreenhouse mumhepo, izvo zvichave zvakanyanya. Saka, vari kuomesa permafrost. Nhanho huru mberi! Sei vachizviita? Saka, vanogona kuishandisa kushandisa mafuta zvakanyanya. Ndihwo hushasha hwecapitalism pamberi pemeso edu nekujeka kwakasimba. Zvinotora shasha kuti usazvione, asi zviri kuitwa.
Tarisa maitiro akakurumbira, Pew anoita kuvhota nguva dzose. Nguva pfupi yadarika vakakumbira vanhu mune vhoti kuti vatore pamberi pezviviri zvine chekuita nekukurumidzira, kunyangwe hondo yenyukireya, iyo inotyisa sekushanduka kwemamiriro ekunze, haina kana kunyorwa. Kuchinja kwemamiriro ekunze kwaiva nechepasi. Chakanyanya kukosha kwaive kushomeka kwebhajeti, iro risiri dambudziko zvachose. Gumi nenhatu muzana yevaRepublicans - icho chinenge chikanganiso chehuwandu - vakafunga kuti shanduko yemamiriro ekunze idambudziko rekukurumidzira. MaDemocrat akawanda akadaro, asi haana kukwana.
Mubvunzo ndewokuti: Vanhu vane hanya nehudiki hudiki hwevanhu, sekuti, kurarama, kuronga uye kuita zvinobudirira zvakakwana kukunda kwete hurumende chete, asi masangano e capitalist akagadzirirwa kuzviuraya?
Barsamian: Mubvunzo unogara uchiuya uye wakazvinzwa kanosvika miriyoni: Varidzi vehupfumi, vatungamiriri veindasitiri, maCEO, vane vana, vane vazukuru, vangatadza sei kufunga nezveramangwana ravo uye kuvadzivirira. pane kuvaisa pangozi?
Chomsky: Ngatiti iwe ndiwe CEO weJPMorgan. Wakatsiva Jamie Dimon. Unonyatsoziva kuti ukabhadhara mafuta efossil unenge uchiparadza hupenyu hwevazukuru vako. Handikwanise kuverenga pfungwa dzake, asi ndinofungidzira kuti zviri kuitika mazviri ndezvekuti: Kana ndikasaita izvi, mumwe munhu anozoiswa uyo - nekuti ndiwo maitiro emasangano akadaro - anovavarira kuwana purofiti uye kugovana musika. Kana ndikadzingwa, mumwe munhu, asiri mukomana akanaka sezvandiri, achapinda. Zvirinani ndinoziva kuti tiri kuparadza zvose uye edza kuzvideredza zvishoma. Mukomana uyu anotevera haana basa nazvo. Saka, semubatsiri werudzi rwevanhu, ndicharamba ndichipa mari yekusimudzira fossil-fuel.
Ndiyo nzvimbo inogutsa yevanenge vanhu vese vari kuita izvi. Kwemakore makumi mana, masayendisiti eExxonMobil anga ari kutungamira mukutsvaga kutyisidzira uye nenjodzi huru dzekudziya kwepasirese. Kwemakumi emakore, vakazivisa manejimendi kuti tiri kuparadza nyika uye yakangoiswa mune imwe dhirowa kumwe kunhu.
Muna 1988, James Hansen, ane mukurumbira geophysicist, akapa huchapupu hweSeneti, achiti, tiri kumhanyira kunjodzi. Iwo manejimendi eExxonMobil nemamwe makambani aifanira kufunga nezvazvo. Hatichagoni kungoiisa mudhirowa zvakare. Saka, vakadaidza nyanzvi dzavo dzePR ndokuti, "Tozvibata sei izvi?" Uye vakapindura vachiti, โKana ukaramba, uchafumurwa pakarepo. Saka usazviramba. Ingokanda kupokana. Iti, pamwe ichokwadi, pamwe hachisi. Hatina kunyatso tarisa mune zvese zvingangoitika. Hatina kunzwisisa mapopots ezuva, mibvunzo pamusoro pechifukidziro chegore, saka ngatingovei nzanga yakapfuma, yakasimukira. Diki rezasi, tichaita purofiti yakawanda uye gare gare, kana paine chokwadi pane izvi, tichange tiri pachinzvimbo chiri nani chekugadzirisa. "
Ndiyo yaive propaganda line. Inoshanda kwazvo PR. Uye wobva wawana Koch Brothers juggernaut nezvimwe zvakadaro kutenga Republican Party, kana yaimbove bato rezvematongerwo enyika, uye kuvashandura kuva vanoramba zvachose, vachiti pamwe ihoax yakasununguka, zvichingodaro.
MaDemocrat akatsigira izvi nedzimwe nzira. Chinhu chimwe chinonakidza nezvesarudzo dzichangoburwa munzvimbo dziri pedyo nemuganho weTexas: maMexico-America, aigara achivhota Democratic, akavhotera Trump. Sei? Zvakanaka, unogona kufungidzira zviri nyore: Ndine basa muindasitiri yemafuta. MaDemocrat anoda kunditorera basa rangu, kuparadza mhuri yangu, zvese nekuti avo vane rusununguko rwepamusoro vanoti kune kudziya kwepasirese kuri kuitika. Nei ndichifanira kuvatenda? Ngativhoterei Trump. Ndinenge ndawana basa ndokwanisa kuriritira mhuri yangu.
Izvo zvisina kuitwa neveDemocrats kuendako, kuronga, kudzidzisa, uye kuti, โDambudziko rezvakatipoteredza richakuparadzai nemhuri dzenyu. Unogona kuwana mabasa ari nani musimba rinogara riripo uye vana vako vanova nani. โ Chokwadi, munzvimbo dzavakaita izvozvo, vaikunda. Imwe yenyaya dzakanyanya kurova yaive West Virginia, nyika yemarasha, uko Joe Manchin, seneta weindasitiri yemarasha, anga achivhara zvakanyanya. Shamwari yangu uye wandinoshanda naye Bob Pollin neboka rake paYunivhesiti yeMassachusetts, PERI, Political Economy Research Institute, vanga vachishanda pasi ipapo uye iye zvino vane vashandi vepamigodhi vanodaidzira shanduko kune simba rinogara riripo. United Mine Workers yakatoita zvisungo zvekuidaidza.
Barsamian: Zvakadini nezviri kuitika mubhangi chikamu chakapihwa kudonha kweSilicon Valley Bank, ichiteverwa neSiginecha Bank, uye matambudziko kuFirst Republic Bank?
Chomsky: Chekutanga pane zvese, ini handitaure chero hunyanzvi hwakakosha mune izvi, asi vanhu vanoita, vakakomba economists avo vakatendeseka nezvazvo saPaul Krugman, vanotaura zvakapusa: isu hatizive. Izvi zvinodzokera kumashure angangoita makore 45 kune deregulation mania. Deregulate mari uye iwe unoenda kune hupfumi-hwakavakirwa hupfumi, uchibvisa-maindasitiri munyika. Iwe unoita mari yako kubva mumari, kwete kubva mukuvaka zvinhu - zvine njodzi kuedza izvo zvine pundutso asi zvinozotungamira mukupunzika wobva wadaidza hurumende, zvichireva mutero, kuti ikubvise.
Pakanga pasina matambudziko makuru emabhangi muma1950 nema1960, nguva yakakura yekukura, nekuti Treasury department raichengeta indasitiri yemabhanga. Mazuva iwayo, bhangi raingova bhangi. Waive nemari yakawedzerwa, wakaiisa ipapo. Mumwe akauya akakwereta mari yekutenga mota kana kutumira mwana wake kucollege. Ndiko kwaiva kubhengi. Zvakatanga kuchinja zvishoma naJimmy Carter, asi Ronald Reagan ndiye akanga ari avalanche. Une vanhu vakaita saLarry Summers vachiti, ngatiregedzei zvinobuda, vhura zvese. Dambudziko rimwe pashure peimwe rakatevera. Iyo Reagan manejimendi yakaguma nehombe yekuchengetedza uye dambudziko rechikwereti. Zvekare, fonera muteresi ane hushamwari. Vapfumi vanoita mari yakawanda uye vamwe vose vanobhadhara zvinodhura.
Ndizvo zvakanzi naBob Pollin naGerry Epstein "hupfumi hwekubhadharisa." Bhizinesi remahara, ita mari kwenguva yakareba sezvaunokwanisa, kudzamara dambudziko rauya uye veruzhinji vakubvisa. Chikuru chaiva 2008. Chii chakaitika? Nekuda kwekudzikiswa kwezvakaomesesa zvigadzirwa zvemari sezvinobva uye zvimwe zvirongwa zviri pasi paBill Clinton, wakaita tsaona muindasitiri yedzimba, ipapo muindasitiri yezvemari. Congress yakapfuura mutemo, TARP, ine zvikamu zviviri. Chekutanga, yakabvisa matsotsi aive akonzeresa dambudziko kuburikidza ne subprime mortgages, zvikwereti zvavaiziva kuti hazvaizodzoserwa. Chechipiri, yakaita chimwe chinhu kune vanhu vakanga varasikirwa nemisha yavo, vakadzingwa kunze mumugwagwa nekuvharirwa. Fungidzira kuti ndeipi hafu yemutemo yakashandiswa naObama? Kwaive kunyomba zvekuti Inspector General weDhipatimendi rePfuma, Neil Barofsky, vakanyora bhuku vachishora zvakaitika. Hapana mhedzisiro. Mukupindura, vashandi vazhinji vakavhotera VaObama vachitenda mutsara wetariro-uye-shanduko vakave vavhoti vaTrump, vachinzwa kurasika nebato raiti nderavo.
Barsamian: Hondo yeUkraine ikozvino yave mugore rechipiri isina kupera mukuona. China yakaronga hurongwa hwerunyararo kuti hupere. Ndeipi mikana yechokwadi yekuti izvozvo zviitike munguva pfupi iri kuuya?
Chomsky: Sangano reGlobal South riri kudaidzira kuti pave nenhaurirano dzekugadzirisana kumisa kutyisa kusati kwanyanya. Zvechokwadi, kupindira kweRussia kwaiva chiito chemhosva chechisimba. Hapana mubvunzo pamusoro pazvo. VaUkraine vane kodzero yekuzvidzivirira. Handifungi kuti panofanira kuva nemubvunzo pamusoro pazvo zvakare.
Mubvunzo ndouyu: Ko United States ichabvuma kubvumira nhaurirano kuti dziitike here? Nzvimbo yepamutemo yeUS ndeyekuti hondo inofanira kuramba ichideredza zvakanyanya Russia. Muchokwadi, United States iri kuwana chibvumirano kubva pane izvi. Nechikamu chidiki chebhajeti rayo rakakura remauto, iri kudzikisira zvakanyanya mupikisi wayo mukuru wemauto, Russia, iyo isina hupfumi hwakawanda asi ine mauto makuru. Unogona kubvunza kana ndosaka vari kuzviita, asi ichokwadi.
Pane fungidziro: kana tikaramba tichitsigira hondo, tichaisa Ukraine munzvimbo iri nani yekutaurirana. Kutaura zvazviri, vangangove vari mune yakaipisisa, sezvo nyika iyoyo iri kuparadzwa nehondo, mune zveupfumi. Zvinenge mauto avo ese aenda, atsiviwa nevatsva, vasina kudzidziswa. Russia iri kutambudzika zvakanyanya, asi kana ukatarisa simba ravo, ndiani achahwina mumakwikwi? Haisi chakavanzika chikuru. Ukraine inogona kuparadzwa uye zvakadaro chinzvimbo cheUS ndechekuti: isu tinofanirwa kuenderera, tinofanirwa kunetesa Russia zvakanyanya, uye nechimwe chishamiso, Ukraine ichasimba.
Britain inotevera United States. Asi zvakadini neEurope? Parizvino, vepamusoro vayo vaenda pamwe neUnited States. Vanhu varo, vasina kunyatsojeka. Tichitarisa nesarudzo, veruzhinji vari kuda kuti nhaurirano dziitwe. Nyika yebhizimisi iri kunetseka zvikuru. Kushungurudza kwaPutin kwaivewo kuita kwehupenzi hwematsotsi kubva pamaonero ake. Russia neEurope vadyidzani vezvekutengeserana. Russia ine zviwanikwa uye zvicherwa, Europe tekinoroji uye indasitiri. Pane kudaro, Putin akapa Washington chishuwo chake chikuru pandiro yesirivha. Iye akati: Zvakanaka, Europe. Enda uve satellite yeUnited States, zvinoreva kuti iwe uchaenda kune deindustrialization.
The Economist magazini pakati pevamwe yanga ichinyevera kuti Europe ichaenda kune deindustrialization kana ikaramba ichitsigira NATO-based, US-run hondo, iyo yakawanda yenyika ikozvino inoona sehondo yeproxy pakati peRussia neUnited States pamusoro pemiviri yeUkraine. Chaizvoizvo, zvinotopfuura izvozvo. Mukupindura zvikumbiro zveUS, NATO yawedzera kusvika kuIndo-Pacific, zvichireva kuti US ine Europe muhomwe yayo yekutarisana neChina, yekuitenderedza nemhete yenyika dzakashongedzerwa nezvombo zveUS.
Zvichakadaro, hutongi hweBiden hwakadaidzira hondo yekutengeserana kudzivirira budiriro yeChina kwechizvarwa. Hatikwanise kukwikwidzana navo, saka ngativadzivisei kuwana tekinoroji yepamusoro. Macheni ekupa ari munyika akaomarara zvekuti zvinenge zvese - patents, tekinoroji, chero - zvinosanganisira kumwe kupinza kweUS. Hutongi hweBiden hunoti hapana anogona kushandisa chero cheizvi muhukama hwekutengeserana neChina. Funga kuti zvinorevei kuNetherlands, iyo ine indasitiri yepasi rose yelithographic, inogadzira zvikamu zvakakosha zvemasemiconductors, emachipisi. Iri kurairwa neWashington kuti imire kubata nemusika wayo mukuru, China, kurova kwakanyanya kuindasitiri yayo. Vachabvuma here? Hatizivi. Zvimwe chete neSouth Korea. IUS iri kuudza Samsung, iyo hombe yekuSouth Korea femu, iwe unofanirwa kuzvibvisa pamusika wako mukuru nekuti isu tine mamwe patent aunoshandisa. Zvimwe chete neindasitiri yeJapan.
Hapana anoziva kuti vachaita sei. Vari kuenda nekuzvidira deindustrialize kuti ikwane mutemo weUS wehutongi hwepasirese? Global South โ India, Indonesia, Latin America nyika โ dziri kutoti, hatitambire zvirango zvakadaro. Ikoku kungatanga kuva bonderano huru munyika.
Barsamian: Rafael Grossi, director weInternational Atomic Energy Agency, anga achiyambira nezve njodzi dzinounzwa nemaaya enyukireya muUkraine. Kupfura uye kurwisana pedyo navo, anodaro, kunogona kukonzera โnjodzi yenyukireya.โ Zvichakadaro, hutongi hweBiden huri kuenderera mberi ne "mazuva ano" ezvombo zvenyukireya zveUS. Uyu ndiwo mumwe muenzaniso wenguva apo mapengo anodzora nzvimbo yekupotera?
Chomsky: Nehurombo, rimwe rematambudziko makuru Dan Ellsberg nevamwe vanga vachiedza kutiita kuti tinzwisise kwemakore ndeyekutyisidzira kwehondo yenyukireya. MuWashington, vanhu vanotaura nezvazvo sekunge kuseka: ngativei nehondo diki yenyukireya neChina! Mukuru weAir Force Mike Minihan achangobva kufanotaura kuti tichava nehondo neChina mumakore maviri. Zvinopfuura kupenga. Hapagoni kuva nehondo pakati pemasimba enyukireya.
Zvichakadaro, kuronga kwehurongwa hweUS pasi paTrump, yakawedzerwa naBiden, kwave kugadzirira hondo dzenyukireya mbiri, neRussia neChina. Hongu, izvo zveUkraine mareactor enyukireya idambudziko guru, asi rinopfuura izvozvo. United States yave kutumira matangi nezvimwe zvombo kuUkraine. Poland iri kutumira ndege dzejet. Munguva pfupi, Russia inogona kurwisa nzira dzekugovera. (Vaongorori vemauto eUS vanoshamiswa zvishoma kuti yakadzora kumashure kwenguva refu iyi.) Une vanhu vanotungamira kubva kuWashington vachishanyira Kyiv. Uchiri kurangarira here mumwe munhu akashanyira guta guru reIraqi, Baghdad, apo United States yakanga ichiirova neguruva? Kwete mundangariro dzangu. Kutaura idi, vazvipiri vorugare vashomanene vakarairwa kubuda munyika, nokuti yakanga ichiparadzwa zvikuru. Ukraine iri kurohwa zvakaipisisa, asi kana Russia ikaramba ichirwisa Western Ukraine kusanganisira nzira dzekugovera, pamwe kunyange kupfuura izvozvo, ipapo kunangana kwakananga neNATO kunogoneka.
Kutaura zvazviri, yave kutokwira pamanera ekukwira. Zvichasvika kupi? Iwe une vanhu vari muchikamu chehawkish vachikurudzira kuti pamwe tinogona kunyudza zvikepe zveRussia Black Sea. Uye kana zvakadaro, ivo vachati, ndinokutendai, izvo zvaive zvakanaka, isu takanga tisina hanya zvakanyanya nezvezvikepe izvozvo, handiti?
Muchokwadi, kuti vadzokere kune iyo Pew poll, havana kana kunyora hondo yenyukireya seimwe yenyaya dzaigona kuiswa nevanhu. Kupenga ndiro chete izwi raungashandise kwazviri.
Barsamian: Tichitaura nezvenjodzi dzepasi, Chibvumirano cheTANGA pakati peUS neRussia chakamisa miganhu payakaiswa hurongwa hwehondo dzenyukireya. Munguva pfupi yapfuura, Russia yakamisa kutora chikamu mairi. Ngozi ipi iyoyo?
Chomsky: Russia yakashorwa zvakanyanya nekuda kweizvozvo. Zvakanaka. Mabasa asina kunaka anofanira kushorwa. Asi pane mamwe mamiriro ekuti hatifanirwe kutaura nezvayo. Hurumende yekudzora zvombo yakagadziridzwa zvine mutsindo mumakore makumi matanhatu. Kushanda nesimba kwakawanda uye kutaurirana. Kuratidzira kukuru kweveruzhinji muUnited States neEurope kwakatungamira Ronald Reagan kuti agamuchire zvirevo zvemutungamiri weRussia Mikhail Gorbachev zveIntermediate Short Range Missile Treaty muEurope, danho rakakosha muna 60. Dwight D. Eisenhower akatanga kufunga nezveChibvumirano cheOpen Skies. John F. Kennedy akatora matanho. Nokufamba kwenguva, zvakatanga, kusvikira George W. Bush azova mutungamiri wenyika.
Kubva ipapo, Republican Party yanga ichibvisa zvine hurongwa makore makumi matanhatu ekutonga kwezvombo. Bush akaputsa chibvumirano cheAntiballistic Missile Treaty. Izvozvo zvakanga zvakakosha. Ingozi huru kuRussia kuve nekumisikidzwa kweABM pedyo nemuganho wayo, sezvo izvo zviri zvombo zvekutanga kurova. Trump akauya nebhora rake rekupwanya ndokubvisa chibvumirano cheReagan-Gorbachev INF uye gare gare Chibvumirano cheOpen Skies. Aive mushure meChibvumirano Chitsva Chekutanga, zvakare, asi Biden akauya munguva chaiyo yekubvumirana nezvikumbiro zveRussia zvekuwedzera. Zvino, maRussia akamisa iyo. Zvose izvi nhangemutange yenjodzi uye matsotsi makuru anoitika kuva Republican Party muUnited States. Chiito chaPutin chinofanira kushorwa, asi hachina kumboitika chiri chega.
Barsamian: Hungwaru hweUS nguva pfupi yadarika yakaparura Kuongororwa Kwekutyisidzira Kwegore. Inoti, "China ine mukana wekuyedza kushandura zvakananga kurongeka kwepasirese munzvimbo dzese uye nematunhu akati wandei semukwikwidzi ari pedyo ari kuwedzera kushandura magariro epasirese." Mutsara uyu "mitemo-based global order" ndeye vintage Orwell.
Chomsky: Mutsara unonakidza. MuUnited States, kana iwe uri mutsinhiri wenjere uye mudzidzi anoteerera, unozvitora sezvinei kuti isu tinofanirwa kuve nemirairo-yakavakirwa kurongeka. Asi ndiani anogadza mitemo? Isu hatibvunze mubvunzo iwoyo nekuti ine mhinduro iri pachena: iyo mitemo inoiswa naGodfather muWashington. China ikozvino yave kupikisa pachena uye, kwemakore, yanga ichidaidzira UN-based international order, inotsigirwa nenyika dzakawanda, kunyanya Global South. IUS haigone kubvuma kusaisa mitemo, zvisinei, sezvo ichizosanganisira chisungo chakasimba chinopesana nekutyisidzira, kana kushandisa, simba munhau dzepasi rose, izvo zvinoreva kurambidza mutemo wekunze weUS. Ungafunga here nezvemutungamiri wenyika asina kupindira mukutyisidzira, kana kushandisa, simba? Uye kwete kungoita matsotsi makuru sekupindirwa kweIraq. VaObama pavanoudza Iran kuti sarudzo dzese dzakavhurika kunze kwekunge iwe waita zvatinotaura, iko kutyisidzira kwechisimba. Mutungamiri wega wega weAmerica akatyora mutemo weUN-based international.
Uye heino chidimbu chidiki chausingafanirwe kutaura. Vakatyorawo Bumbiro reUS. Verenga Chitsauko cheChitanhatu, chinoti zvibvumirano zvakapinzwa neUnited States ndiwo mutemo mukuru wepasi wese akasarudzwa anofanirwa kucherechedzwa. Chibvumirano chikuru chepashure peHondo Yenyika II chaive chekuti UN Charter, inorambidza kutyisidzira kana kushandiswa kwesimba. Nemamwe manzwi, mutungamiri wega wega weUS akatyora Bumbiro remutemo, iro isu tinofanirwa kunamata sezvatakapihwa naMwari.
Saka, China iri kuve "mukwikwidzi wevezera" here? Iri mumatunhu akaripoteredza. Tarisa pamitambo yehondo inotungamirirwa nePentagon uye vanoratidza kuti, kana paiva nehondo yemunharaunda pamusoro peTaiwan, China ingangokunda. Ehe, pfungwa yacho inoseka nekuti chero hondo yaizokurumidza kuputika kuita imwe terminal. Asi ndiyo mitambo yavanotamba. Saka, China inokwikwidzana. Iri kuita nemazvo uye zviri pamutemo here? Chokwadi kwete. Iro matombo akasimba muSouth China Sea. Iko kutyora mutemo wepasi rose, kutyora mutongo chaiwo weUN, asi iri kuwedzera.
Zvakadaro, kutyisidzira kwekutanga kweChinese nhanho dzakaita sekuunza Saudi Arabia neIran pamwe chete uye nekudaro kukanda zvakakomba mumitemo yeUS inodzokera makore makumi masere kudzora Middle East. Nehungwaru, ndiyo "nzvimbo inonyanya kukosha pasirese," sekutaura kwakaita hurumende, uye China iri kupindira pane izvozvo, kugadzira kugadzirisa kwezvematongerwo enyika kunogona kuderedza kusawirirana, kungatogadzirisa hondo inotyisa muYemen, uku kuunza pamwe chete mubatsiri weWashington. ikoko, Saudi Arabia, uye Iran, muvengi wayo mukuru. Izvo hazvigoneki! Kune US neIsrael, iko kurova chaiko.
Barsamian: Bhuku rako rekirasi naEd Herman ndiro Kubvumira Kugadzira. Dai wanga uchivandudza nhasi, iwe waizo, zvechokwadi, kutsiva Soviet Union neChina uye / kana Russia uye pasina mubvunzo kuwedzera kukura kwesocial media. Pane chine chimwe?
Chomsky: Ndizvo zvaizova zvinhu zvikuru. Social media haisi pfungwa diki. Izvo zvine maitiro akaoma kwazvo panzanga yeAmerica. Dzokera kuUS kunopinda Iraq. Ruzhinji rwevanhu vakafunga kuti Saddam Hussein ndiye aikonzera 9/11. Kunze kwekunze, asi vaive vanzwa propaganda yakakwana pano kuti vazvitende. Ma social media arikungoita kuti zvese izvi zvinyanye kuipa. Ongororo ichangobva kuitwa yevechidiki, inonzi Generation Z, uye kwavanowana nhau dzavo yakaratidza kuti hapana anoverenga mapepanhau. Anenge hapana anoona terevhizheni. Vashoma vanhu vanototarisa paFacebook. Ivo vari kuzviwana kubva kuTikTok, Instagram. Imhandoi yenharaunda ichaedza kunzwisisa nyika ino kubva pakuona vanhu vachinakidzwa paTikTok?
Imwe mhedzisiro yesocial media ndeyekutyaira vanhu mumabhuru ekuzvisimbisa. Tose tiri pasi paizvozvo. Vanhu vakaita seni vanoteerera purogiramu yenyu kana Dememocracy Zvino. Hatiteerere Breitbart. Ukuwo, zvimwe chetezvo ndezvechokwadi. Uye imwe monster iri kuuya, iyo chatbot system yehungwaru hwekugadzira, nzira inoshamisa yekugadzira disinformation, dhimoni, kusvibisa. Pamwe hapana nzira yekuidzora nayo. Uye izvi zvese chikamu chemvumo yekugadzira. Isu tiri vakanaka uye vakajeka. Bvisa vanhu avo mubvudzi redu uye isu tichamhanyisa nyika kuti munhu wese abatsirike. Takaona kuti zvinoshanda sei.
Barsamian: Isu tinokunda sei propaganda uye ndeapi mamwe maitiro ekunetsa savage capitalism?
Chomsky: Maitiro aunopikisa propaganda ndiyo nzira yauri kuzviita nayo, zvakanyanya - zvakanyanya kushanda, zvakanyanya kubatikana. Kana iri savage capitalism, kune matanho maviri. Chidiki ndechekubvisa chikamu chine hutsinye. Hazvisizvo chaizvo kutaura kuti: ngatidzokerei kune zvataiva nazvo pre-Reagan. Ngativei necapitalism ine hukasha huri pakati nepakati umo muchine mihoro yakanaka, kodzero dzevanhu, nezvimwe zvakadaro. Kure nekwakanaka, asi kuri nani pane zvatave nazvo kubva ipapo.
Nhanho yechipiri ndeyekubvisa dambudziko guru. Ngatidzokerei kumatanho ekutanga eRevolution Revolution muUnited States. Vanhu vanoshanda vakazvitora sezviri pachena kuti chibvumirano chemuhoro chaive kurwisa zvisiri pamutemo pakodzero dzavo dzekutanga, vachikuita izvo zvainzi pachena "varanda vemuhoro." Nei tichifanira kutevera mirairo yatenzi yehupenyu hwedu hwese hunomuka? Zvaionekwa sezvinonyangadza. Yakanga iri sirogani yeRepublican Party pasi paLincoln kuti izvi zvaisashiviririka. Bato iri rakagara mukutanga kwezana ramakore rechi20 risati rapwanywa naWoodrow Wilson's Red Scare, iyo yakatsvaira bato reSocialist nebato revashandi. Pakanga pane kupora mumakore makumi matatu, asi kwete kusvika pamwero iwoyo.
Uye zvino kunyange izvo zvaenda. Vanhu vanozviona sechinangwa chavo chepamusoro-soro muhupenyu kuve pasi pemirairo yatenzi kwehupenyu hwavo hwakawanda. Uye ndiyo propaganda inoshanda, asi inogona kuchinja, zvakare. Patova nezvikumbiro zvekutora chikamu kwevashandi mukutungamira izvo zvisiri zveutopian. Ivo variko muGermany nedzimwe nzvimbo uye izvo zvinogona kuve: Sei isu tisingatore bhizinesi isu? Nei tichifanira kutevera mirairo yemumwe mubhengi muNew York isu tichigona kumhanya nzvimbo ino zvirinani? Handifungi kuti zviri kure zvakadaro.
Barsamian: Mapenzi anoita seanodzora nzvimbo yekupotera. Ndezvipi zviratidzo zvehungwaru zviri kunze uko kurwisa vanopenga?
Chomsky: Zvakawanda. Pane zvakawanda zvakakurumbira activism. Iri mumigwagwa. Vechidiki vanodaidzira kubatwa zvakanaka kwevamwe. Zvakawanda zvacho zvakasimba uye zvakakomba. Extinction Rebellion, The Sunrise Movement. Ngatichengetedzei pasi kubva mukuparadzwa. Kune manzwi akawanda. Wako, Dememocracy Zvino, Chris Hedges, nzvimbo dzakawanda, Alternet, Nharo Dzose, Chokwadi, The Intercept, TomDispatch, vamwe vakawanda. Zvose izvi kuedza kugadzira imwe nyika umo vanhu vanogona kurarama. Ndizvo zviratidzo zvetariro kunyika.
Copyright 2023 David Barsamian naNoam Chomsky
ZNetwork inopihwa mari chete kuburikidza nerupo rwevaverengi vayo.
dhoneta