Umthombo: I-Counterpunch
UJoe Emersberger wenze udliwanondlebe noJustin Podur malunga neyakhe incwadi entsha malunga nongquzulwano abambalwa abaqondayo bayabulela, phakathi kwezinye izinto, izifundiswa "zama-Afrika".
UJoe Emersberger: Incwadi yakho ijolise ekuqondeni imfazwe yaseDR Congo eyabulala abantu abaqikelelwa kwizigidi ezi-5 ukusukela ngo-1998.
UJustin Podur: Ndiyibona imalunga nomsitho weminyaka elishumi elinesihlanu owaqala ngo-1990 xa iRPF [ekhokelwa nguPaul Kagame] yahlasela iRwanda. Oko kwaphela, mhlawumbi, ngaxesha lithile ukusuka ku-2003 ukuya ku-2006. Yayingabantu abafanayo abasilwela izizathu ezifanayo. Kwakukho ikhefu, kungekhona ixesha elide kakhulu, ekulweni.
Mna: Incwadi yakho ichitha ixesha elininzi iphikisa “ama-Afrika” – iingcali ezicingelwa ukuba zifana neengcaphephe zakuMbindi Mpuma u-Edward Said awathi “ziingcali zaseMpuma”.
I-Podur: Wathi akazange aqalise ngelo xesha. Yiloo nto ababezibiza ngayo abo bantu – isiko laqala liqela labaphengululi abathi uNapoleon weza nalo eYiputa xa wayehlasela. Elo sithethe laqhubeka lisithi abaphengululi baseNtshona ibe ngabo ababechaza nokutolika iMpuma. Kumashumi eminyaka akutshanje, abaphengululi be-Aime Cesaire kunye neChinua Achebe ukuya eGayatri Spivak (kwaye ngokuqinisekileyo u-Edward Said) baye baphikisana "Hayi, abantu abavela kummandla banokuthetha ngokwabo".
Ndaqala ukufunda iiMfazwe zaseCongo njengelungu lasekhohlo elalizama ukufumana umqheba kwinto eyenzekayo, ndisazi ukuba kukho lo mboniso mkhulu wase-US - kunye neCanada (wonke umntu uyazi malunga neRomeo Dallaire indima yakhe kuxoxwa ngayo ngobude kwincwadi yam). Ndenze into enokuthi yenziwe ngabantu abaninzi xa bezama ukuqonda imfazwe: Ndathatha uthotho lweencwadi zezi ngcali zaseAfrika.
Ukuqala kwam ndandifundela iinyani: ngubani owenza ntoni kubani. Kodwa ngalo lonke ixesha kwakukho ezinye izinto endiziqaphelayo: indlela ababeza kuthetha ngayo ngeqela elithile lobuhlanga elihlobene nolunye, indlela ababeza kuchaza ngayo ngokwasemzimbeni iinkokeli ezazixhasa i-US ngokuchasene nezo zazingenjalo. Ndaqonda ukuba ukuze ndithethe eli bali ngokufanelekileyo kufuneka ndiveze ucalucalulo nolunye ucalucalulo lwabantu abaninzi ababhale ngalo ukuza kuthi ga ngoku.
Mna: Uchaza ukusetyenziswa kwembali evuzayo edityaniswe nobuhlanga ngamaAfrika amaninzi. Ukwajolisa kakhulu ekubulaweni kukaPatrice Lumumba ngo-1960 kunye nokutyunyuzwa koxinzelelo lwakhe lohlaziyo lwedemokhrasi eCongo.
I-Podur: Bendifuna ukuthetha ngaloo nto kuba ama-Afrika amchaza uLumumba njengenkokeli embi okanye efileyo. Kufundo lwam lokuqala lwezi ndinyana, ndiye ndacinga ukuba le mizobo ichanekile. Ngubani ongenasiphako? Kodwa xa ndijonga ngalinye lamabango- iziphene ezithiwayo, akukho namnye kubo owabambelelayo. Kukho enye into awayenzela amaBaluba [enye yezizwe kwiphondo laseKatanga] kodwa eneneni yayilutshaba lwakhe, uMoise Tshombe, owayenza loo nto yaza iNtshona yayibethelela eLumumba. Kukho inani elikhulu lezinto ezinjalo. Kukwakho nentelekelelo yokuba “ukuba wayephile, ngewayenguzwilakhe”. Le yenye iklasi ye-Africanist. Kwafuneka sibulale umntu kuba wayenokwenza into embi kwixesha elizayo.
Kodwa xa uqonda umongo ngelo xesha kuyacaca ukuba kutheni bembulele. Yayingekuko ngenxa yokuba wayenesiphene, kwakungenxa yokuba wayengaphambi kwexesha lama impiriyali awayephila kulo. Wayezama ukuzisa ubutyebi obuninzi baseCongo phantsi kolawulo lwedemokhrasi. Akazange atyibilike wabulawa ziintshaba zalapha. Wayenabalandeli abaninzi nabanzulu kakhulu, ngakumbi kwiPhondo lase-Orientale, kwaye abo bantu, iLumumbists, baqhubeka besilwa iminyaka emi-4 ngaphezulu. Enyanisweni enye inkokeli, uPierre Mulele, walwa iminyaka eyi-8 ngaphezulu.
I-US yahlala igalela izixhobo ezingakumbi nangakumbi ekuqinisekiseni ukuba iiLumumbists zityunyuziwe. Bakwenza oko phantse iminyaka elishumi yonke. Akuzange kwenzeke ngengozi. Yayicwangcisiwe - lelinye lamanyathelo aphambili omgaqo-nkqubo wamazwe angaphandle wase-US kumanqanaba aphezulu. Konke kwiintambo, uBudlelwane bamazwe angaphandle kwe-United States, ezinye zazo zakhululwa kwi-2014. Babenolwazi lwezopolitiko zaseCongo ukuya kwinqanaba le-granular yeenkcukacha. Babebazi abezopolitiko basekuhlaleni, izikhundla zabo kwimiba eyahlukeneyo kunye nomnye. Amagosa ase-US amagama abo uya kuwaqaphela akwezi ntambo: Eisenhower, Kennedy, Harriman…. Iyayikhaba ngenene imbono yeAfrika, okanye iCongo ngokubanzi, njengolunye uhlobo lwamanzi angasemva angenamsebenzi. Ama impiriyali akalwenzi olu hlobo lokucwangcisa kunye nomsebenzi oneenkcukacha malunga ne-backwater - andiqondi ukuba kukho into efana ne-backwater kwakhona, kuma impiriyali anenjongo yokulawula ihlabathi lonke okanye ngaphezulu, ukususela kuCecil Rhodes. (umAfrika wokuqala) kuyabonakala ukuba wajonga phezulu esibhakabhakeni waza walila esithi akanakoyisa iinkwenkwezi.
Mna: Kwaye incwadi yakho ixoxa ngoozwilakhe be-post-Independence abavele baba zizixhobo ezibalulekileyo zomgaqo-nkqubo wase-US: Kagame, Mobutu, Amin, Obote. Ugxininise kwiCongo kodwa ukwenza loo nto kwafuneka uxoxe nzulu ngeRwanda neUganda. Ngaba ungadlula kuhlobo lokufa kwabantu abalunyangileyo? Ndikwanomdla wokwazi ukuba kutheni u-Idi Amin (owathatha amandla ngenkxaso yase-UK) uye waba ngoyena udumileyo.
I-Podur: Kunzima ukubala ukufa kodwa ngokuqinisekileyo unako kwiimfazwe. UMobutu umzekelo, kwakukho iimfazwe ezimbini zokumbhukuqa ngeminyaka yoo-1970 ezathi zabekwa phantsi. Ezo zaziyimikhosi ephiko lasekunene. Ezo zazinkulu kakhulu kwaye mhlawumbi amashumi amawaka abulawa. Wayephethe iminyaka engama-30 - ukusuka ngo-1961 ukuya kutsho ngo-1996. Wayesaziwa nangombono wekleptocracy. Oko kuvela eMobutu.
U-Amin wayembi ngenene, enoxanduva lokufa kumakhulu amawaka kwi-countersurgeries kumantla eUganda. Ndicinga ukuba abantu bangamazi kakhulu kuba wavumela abaqweqwedisi ukuba bahlale eUganda ngo-1976. I-commandos zakwa-Israel ziye zahlangula kwaye yaba libali elikhulu kuba ii-commandos zakwa-Israel zaphumelela. Mhlawumbi ukuwela amaSirayeli yayisesinye isizathu esabangela ukuba adume kakubi. Kwakhona wagxotha abemi baseIndiya eUganda, nto leyo eyabangela ukubandezeleka okukhulu nentiyo enkulu kuye. UAmin wabhukuqwa yiTanzania ngowe-1979.
Kodwa ke imfazwe yamakhaya enkulu yaqala eUganda phakathi kweObote noMuseveni. Oko kwakubizwa ngokuba yiMfazwe yaseUganda yaseBush (1980-86). UMuseveni wayiphumelela loo mfazwe. Akukho mntu uwaziyo amanani abuleweyo kangangoko ndinokuwafumana, kodwa inokuba sisiqingatha sesigidi abafayo kuloo mfazwe. Akukho mntu uthetha ngayo, kodwa amanani anokuthelekiswa nembubhiso yaseRwanda.
Mna: Olu hlobo lokusikhokelela eKagame. Oozwilakhe ngokubanzi bayasokola ukuze bazithethelele kwihlabathi, kodwa lo mfo ngokwenene waphumelela ekudambiseni uninzi awayelulawula, ebabhengeza ukuba bonke banetyala lokubulala.
I-Podur: Kum lolona phulo luphumeleleyo lwepropaganda kuba, njengoko ubutshilo, uninzi lwelizwe ngoku libonwa lihlabathi liphela linetyala kwaye lifanelwe bubukhoboka obungapheliyo.
Iziganeko zonyaka ka-1994 endizixoxayo kule ncwadi, zibandakanya ukubulawa kwabantu abangamaTutsi ngomkhosi wamaHutu kodwa kwaneRPF [ekhokelwa nguKagame] yokubulawa kwabantu abangamaTutsi namaHutu kulo lonke elaseRwanda. I-RPF emva koko yalandela aba bantu babalekayo baseRwanda baya eCongo bebulala amakhulu amawaka - uninzi lwamaHutu kodwa namanye amaqela abantu baseRwanda nabaseCongo. Zonke ezi ziganeko kuthethwa ngazo ngokubanzi kumxholo wobubi ekutyholwa ukuba bukhethekile bamaHutu. Iphela isetyenziselwa ukuthethelela ubuzwilakhe obungapheliyo beKagame. Yinto emangalisayo.
JE: UEd Herman noDavid Peterson bakuchukumisa oku kwincwadi yabo ethi “The Politics of Genocide” Mhlawumbi unokutyhubela olunye uqikelelo oluphathelele imbubhiso yowe-1994.
I-Podur: Ndizama ukuyiphepha, kwaye ndicinga ukuba eneneni uHerman noPeterson bayinqandile, ingcamango yokuba kukho uhlobo oluthile lweleja. Leyo yinto enkulu ye-Africanist trope - inxalenye enkulu yezinto abazenzayo neRwanda, kukudibanisa amanani amaHutu abulawa ngamaTutsi namaTutsi abulawa ngamaHutu kunye nokulinganisa ukufa ngokobuhlanga. Bathi kwabulawa amaTutsi angama-800,000, kwaye kubonakala ngathi bacebisa ukuba uKagame ubulala abangaphantsi kwama-800,000 amaHutu, unobubele, unenceba. Ndihlala ndiphindaphinda eli binzana kwincwadi: ama-Afrika abonakala ecinga ukuba "i-800,000 yokuqala ikhululekile".
Uqikelelo lokufa alusekelwanga kumaqumrhu okubala okanye kuvavanyo lwesampulu yeqela elifana ne Lancet isoloko ipapashela i-DRC, i-Iraq, njalo njalo. Isekelwe kubantu abalahlekileyo. Le yindlela amaTutsi amaninzi awayekho ngokobalo (olulungisiweyo). Eli linani elathi labonakala kwiinkampu zeembacu. Umahluko phakathi kwezi zibini kufuneka ube linani elibuleweyo. UHerman noPeterson (nabanye abafana noDavenport noStam) bathi ngokusekelwe kuloo ndlela asazi ukuba babulewe ngubani. Bakwaqaphela ukuba uninzi lwamaHutu abhubhileyo kunokuba luthethwa ngabantu baseAfrika, kodwa oko kulindelekile kuba bebebaninzi. Kwakhona ngenxa yokuba amajoni awayephethe ucelemba ayengazi ukuba abulala bani. Baye babulale nabani na obonisa indlela evaliweyo, babeza kuvingcela indawo baze babulale wonke umntu ongaphakathi kuyo. Phakathi kwama-500,000 - 800,000 abulawa ngala majoni, ngelixa i-RPF yayiqhuba ukubulawa kwabantu okukhulu kwiindawo ezikhulayo ezazilawula. Kukho uqikelelo olufikelela kwisigidi, yaye malunga nesiqingatha ngamaHutu.
Mna: Uphinde waphawula ukuba ukubulawa kwabantu kwakuphenjelelwa luhlaselo lukaKagame olwaluza kwenzeka emva koko. E-US, kwakukho ulwaphulo-mthetho lwentiyo ngokuchasene nabemi base-Arab kunye nabase-Muslim base-US ekuphenduleni ibhombu ye-9 / 11. Sinokuyithelekelela intiyo yobuhlanga eyayinokuphenjelelwa ukuba uBin Laden ngenene wayekulungele ukubhukuqa urhulumente wase-US. Kodwa uKagame ufumana ukupasa nangona ukufuna kwakhe amandla kwavuselela ukubulawa kwabantu kwasekuqaleni. Ukwathetha nangamabango angalawulekiyo malunga nenani labenzi bobugebenga. UKagame ubanga abenzi bobubi abazizigidi ezi-3 kwaye wabhengeza wonke umntu omdala ongumHutu njengomrhanelwa.
I-Podur: Ngokuchanekileyo. Kwakukho amashumi amawaka abenzi bobubi, mhlawumbi ama-30 ukuya kuma-40 amawaka. Yinto eninzi. Ndicinga ukuba olona qikelelo luphezulu lwezifundiswa ngabantu abangama-200,000. Undibetha kakhulu kodwa kunokwenzeka. Nangona kunjalo i labantu ngexesha lokuhlaselwa kwe-RPF ye-1990 yayisondele kwi-7 yezigidi (i-13 yezigidi namhlanje). Ingcamango kukuba bonke babenetyala. Yaye ukuba ucinga ngenani labemi kunye nobudala, la ngamazwe aselula, uninzi lwawo lwalungekaphili ngowe-1994. Kodwa kukho umgudu omkhulu wokugcina ingcamango yokuba amaHutu anetyala.
Mna: Yindlela yokuthethelela ulawulo lobuzwilakhe kwisininzi.
I-Podur: Kwaye ukuthethelela ukubulawa kwe-RPF. Ngelixa amajoni ayebulala amaTutsi, iRPF nayo yayiqokelela ibulala amashumi amawaka amaHutu, ibabizela ezintlanganisweni kwaye ibabetha bade bafe. Oku kubhalwe kakuhle nguJudi Rever kwincwadi yakhe "Ekudumiseni Igazi”, yenye intatheli uStephen Smith abathe baqikelela ukuba bangama-40,000 babulawa yiRPF ngeli xesha baza abanye abali-150,000 babulawa eRwanda yiRPF kunyaka olandelayo. Ngoko ke ama-Afrika athi "ewe nantoni na, awukwazi ukuthelekisa loo nto kunye ne-800,000 ebulewe ngamaHutu" Ngoko abantu abayi-190,000 bakhululekile. Kwandula ke kwabakho ubhubhani wekholera kwiinkampu zeembacu zamaHutu eCongo owabulala amashumi amawaka. Emva koko uKagame uhlasela iCongo ngowe-1996 ukuze azingele amaHutu aseleyo awabaleka eRwanda aze abulale ama-500, 000 ukuya kuma-600,000, mhlawumbi ngaphezulu. Ukugxothwa kwabantu abangamaHutu njengabanetyala kukho ukuthethelela eli nqanaba lokubulawa kwabantu abaninzi kunye nobuzwilakhe obupheleleyo. AmaJamani ayebuxhasa kakhulu ubuNazi. E-US, abantu abamhlophe baseMelika babeza kubamba iipikiniki ukuze babukele i-lynching. Kodwa eJamani nase-US, kukho abantu abafunda uncwadi lwama-Afrika abakholelwa ukuba kukho into embi ngokukodwa ngeqela labantu ababizwa ngokuba ngamaHutu kwilizwe elibizwa ngokuba yiRwanda abangasoze bakholelwe kuyo.
Mna: Kwaye ukubuyela eLumumba, kusebenzela injongo yokonakalisa naliphi na ithuba lophuhliso lwedemokhrasi, kwaye iququzelela ukuphangwa kwezixhobo.
I-Podur: Inqaku elikhulu endandifuna ukulithetha kukuba ngo-1960 uMzantsi Afrika wawulilizwe localucalulo. I-US ikwaluhlobo lombuso wocalucalulo. Babengazukuyivumela iRiphabliki yedemokhrasi eCongo-ilizwe elikhulu, elityebileyo, eliphakathi kweriphabliki yedemokhrasi emnyama enokuthi isebenze indima enkulu yezopolitiko ekukhululeni ilizwekazi lonke.
Ndinesahluko malunga nemisebenzi kaChe Guevara eCongo. UGuevara wayedakumbile kancinci eCongo. Ngokwenene ndicinga ukuba wayengenathemba kakhulu malunga nento ababekwazi ukuyenza apho. Abantu bayalibala ukuba wenza izibalo zokuya khona. Wayenokuya naphi na. Kodwa ngo-1964 wagqiba kwelokuba le yeyona ndawo afanele ukuya kuyo, ukuba owona mlo unobuchule ehlabathini wokuchasa impiriyali wawuqhutywa ngamaLumumbists empuma yeCongo. Kulapho ebefuneka khona. Loo nto isixelela into.
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1 amagqabantshintshi
Udliwano-ndlebe olugqwesileyo. Ndiyaqonda ukuba incwadi enkulu ebiza kakhulu ngeAfrika ayidla ngokukhethwa ngabantu abangezongcali, kodwa “ndiyiqeshile” incwadi eya kuhlala kwikhompyuter yam/kwi-kindle de kube nguSeptemba 5. Ingaphezu kwamaphepha angama-500, ngoko ke andinayo. ixesha elininzi kwaye ndiya kubekela bucala ezinye iiprojekthi kude kube ngoko kangangoko ndinako ukufunda kangangoko ndinako.
"Ndiyingcali yaseLatin America" kodwa ndizamile ukuqonda kangangoko ndinako malunga ne-Afrika, kwakhona, into engenakwenzeka kwaye inkulu kakhulu, ndiyazi. Kodwa incwadi yePoder ibonakala ibalulekile.
Inika umdla into yokuba olu dliwano ndlebe luqukunjelwe ngokubhekisele kwimisebenzi kaChe Guevara eAfrika.
Andiyithandi i-hyperbole, kodwa kubonakala ngathi ilizwe lethu lelona xesha linzima kakhulu kwaye sahluke kakhulu, kodwa sisebubuntu obunye kunye nokuqonda ixesha kunye nendawo yethu kuthetha ukuba sifuna ukuqonda okokuqala nokunyaniseka. ihlabathi liphela.
Oko kufanelekile, ngokufunda udliwano-ndlebe kunye nokufunda uJustin Podur kangangexesha elithile kule webhusayithi, le ncwadi ibonakala ibaluleke kakhulu. Kwaye, kulapho umphathi omkhulu ethatha indalo yakhe, ndiyazi usapho olwaphuncuka eRwanda kwaye olu luhlobo lwamava oludala ukubaluleka kubomi bomntu okude kakhulu neAfrika uqobo.