Mwezi uno ndi tsiku lokumbukira zaka 10 kuchokera pamene Rebecca Solnit adalemba nkhani yofunika kwambiri yakuti, "Amuna Mundifotokozere Zinthu." Mu 2008, Solnit analemba kuti, “Amuna amandifotokozera zinthu, komanso akazi ena, kaya akudziwa kapena ayi. … Mayi aliyense amadziwa zomwe ndikunena. Ndi kulingalira komwe kumapangitsa kukhala kovuta, nthawizina, kwa mkazi aliyense mu gawo lirilonse; zimene zimaletsa akazi kulankhula ndi kumveka pamene alimbirana; zomwe zimaphwanya akazi achichepere kukhala chete mwa kusonyeza, momwe kuvutitsidwa kwapamsewu kumachitira, kuti ili si dziko lawo. Imatiphunzitsa kudzikayikira ndi kudziletsa monga momwe imasonyezera kudzidalira mopambanitsa kwa amuna.” Nkhaniyi yadziwikanso kuti idayambitsa mawu oti "mansplaining," ngakhale Rebecca Solnit sanagwiritse ntchito mawuwo. Kuti mudziwe zambiri, talumikizidwa tsopano ndi a Rebecca Solnit, wolemba, wolemba mbiri komanso wotsutsa. Iye ndi wolemba mabuku 20.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Timathera ola lonseli ndi m'modzi mwa olemba otchuka kwambiri mdziko muno, Rebecca Solnit. Mwezi uno ndi wokumbukira zaka 10 kuchokera pamene analemba nkhani yochititsa chidwi yakuti “Amuna Andifotokozere Zinthu.” Mu 2008, Solnit analemba mawu akuti, “Amuna amandifotokozera zinthu, komanso akazi ena, kaya akudziwa kapena ayi. … Mayi aliyense amadziwa zomwe ndikunena. Ndi kulingalira komwe kumapangitsa kukhala kovuta, nthawizina, kwa mkazi aliyense mu gawo lirilonse; zimene zimaletsa akazi kulankhula ndi kumveka pamene alimbirana; zomwe zimaphwanya akazi achichepere kukhala chete mwa kusonyeza, momwe kuvutitsidwa kwapamsewu kumachitira, kuti ili si dziko lawo. Imatiphunzitsa kudzikayikira ndi kudziletsa monga momwe imasonyezera kudzidalira mopambanitsa kwa amuna.” Solnit analemba mawu amenewa zaka khumi zapitazo, kale kwambiri #Inenso ndi #TimesUp mayendedwe adasesa m'dziko lonselo.
AMY GOODMAN: Nkhaniyi yadziwikanso kuti idayambitsa mawu oti "mansplaining," ngakhale Rebecca Solnit sanapange mawuwo.
Kuti mudziwe zambiri, taphatikizidwa ndi Rebecca Solnit, wolemba, wolemba mbiri, womenyera ufulu, wolemba mabuku 20, kuphatikiza Chiyembekezo mu Mdima ndipo, posachedwapa, Mayi wa Mafunso Onse. Rebecca Solnit ndi mkonzi wothandizira pa Harper a, kumene iye ndi mkazi woyamba kulemba pafupipafupi ndime ya “Easy Chair”.
Rebecca, tabweranso kuno Demokarase Tsopano! Ndizosangalatsa kukhala nanu nafe. Chifukwa chake, zotsatira za nkhani iyi yomwe mudalemba, o, zaka 10 zapitazo, "Amuna Ndifotokozereni Zinthu," ndi momwe zidakhalira, komanso chidwi chanu pakulemba, monga momwe zakhalira nthawi zonse, pamayendedwe, momwe. izi amadyetsa mu kumvetsa kwanu mphamvu ya kayendedwe?
REBECCA SOLINIT: Nthawi zonse ndimaganiza za feminism ngati kagawo kakang'ono ka gulu lomenyera ufulu wachibadwidwe wokhudza kuphatikizika ndi kufanana. Ndipo kotero, inde, ndiye nkhani iyi inali yokhudza momwe amayi amakhudzidwira kwambiri pochitiridwa zinthu ngati osadalirika, monga si anthu omwe ali ndi chonena, monga anthu omwe mawu awo sayenera kuwerengera, kaya akunena kuti, zimene zikuchitika, mukudziwa, mu ofesi,” kapena “Ayi, sindikufuna kugonana nanu,” kapena “Iye akufuna kundipha.” Ndizoseketsa, chifukwa ndidayamba kulemba ndi nthano yotchuka yotsegulira za munthu wina akundifotokozera buku langa, ndikulemba zomwe ndimaganiza kuti zikhala zopepuka kapena zoseketsa, ndipo zidafika mwachangu kugwiriridwa ndi kupha. Kukhulupilika ndi nkhani yofunika kupulumuka.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Chabwino, posachedwa Harper a Chidutswa, muyandika kapati—cintu cimwi ciyandika kapati cakuti, “Nkaambo kakuti bulwazi buli kabotu. Zotsutsana nazo—kuti nthaŵi zambiri mphamvu zimakhala umbuli—sikaŵirikaŵiri zimakambidwa.” Mumapitiriza kunena kuti, "Pali gulu lalikulu la machitidwe obisika kwa anthu omwe ali ndi maimidwe: pamene mukukhala, mumadziwa zochepa." Ndiye, kodi mungafotokoze zimene munkatanthauza ndi mmene zimenezi zikugwirizanira ndi zimene mwanenazi, kupanda chilango kumene amuna angathe kuchita ndi mmene akazi amatonthola?
REBECCA SOLINIT: Inde, ndipo ndidalemba gawoli ndikuganiza za aliyense - antchito, ana, antchito, antchito, anthu amtundu - omwe amawonedwa ngati anthu osafunikira, omwe si mboni, omwe mawu awo sawerengera, omwe nthawi zambiri amakhala ndi vuto. anthu amachita zinthu zomwe akuganiza kuti sizinalembedwe chifukwa anthuwa samva. Ndipo, ndithudi, chondichitikira changa chomwe ndi icho chiri ngati mkazi, pamene ziri ngati, “O, palibe yemwe ati amukhulupirire iye kuti ine ndinachita izi. Ndikhoza kungolankhula za iye n’kunena kuti sizinachitike.” Inu mukudziwa, kotero, kachiwiri, ine ndikuyesera kuganizira za kuchuluka kwa kusagwirizana kwa mphamvu—
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Chabwino, mungalankhule za izi, zomwe zidakuchitikirani inu ndi kuzunzidwa, monga mukufotokozera mu Harper a chidutswa?
REBECCA SOLINIT: Chabwino, inu mukudziwa, ine ndakhala ndi zochitika zikwi zambiri mumsewu pamene ndinali mtsikana, koma ndinalemba za chinachake chimene chinandichitikira ine pamene ndinali 18 ndi wogwira ntchito mu lesitilanti. Ndipo ndikudziwa, monga ogwira ntchito m'mafamu, ogwira ntchito m'malesitilanti ali ndi vuto lalikulu la kuzunzidwa. Ndipo sindinali wosiyana.
Panali wophika wakale wowopsa wotere, chidakwa chakuda ndi maso amagazi. Iye ankakonda kundigwira pamene ndinali kuyesa kutsuka mbale mu café. Ndipo panthawiyo, izi zinali Anita Hill asanasinthe masewerawo pang'ono, zisanachitike zosintha zina zomwe takhala nazo zaka makumi angapo zapitazi. Sindinakhulupirire—ndipo ndikuganiza kuti ndinali wolondola—kuti aliyense akanasamala, kuti abwana anga azindisamalira, kuti mnyamata ameneyu akundigwira.
Ndipo kotero, chimene ine ndinachita kwenikweni chinali kutsimikizira kuti, inu mukudziwa, limodzi la—inu mukudziwa, masabata kapena miyezi mukuchitika izi, kuti pamene iye anandigwira ine, ine ndinali nditanyamula matayala aakulu a magalasi kuchokera mu chotsukira mbale, ndipo Ndinakuwa ndikuwagwetsa. Ndipo phokoso limene ndinapanga linalibe kanthu. Panthawi imeneyo ndinalibe mawu. Koma magalasiwo anali ndi mawu. Phokoso la, mukudziwa, magalasi 40 akuphwanyika adabweretsa mwiniwakeyo kuthamanga. Ndipo ine ndinangoti, “Iye wandigwira ine.” Ndipo, mukudziwa, mwiniwakeyo adamuuza wophikayo, osati kwambiri chifukwa ndiyenera kukhala ndi ufulu wolamulira thupi langa, koma chifukwa kutaya thireyi yodzaza magalasi kunali kodula. Ndipo wophikayo anakwiya kwambiri, chifukwa ankadziwa kuti ndinamupusitsa. Koma zinali—inu mukudziwa, ndimomwe ndinayesera kukhala ndi mawu pamene ndinalibe mawu.
AMY GOODMAN: Rebecca, polankhula za kusowa mawu, mukudziwa, kunyozetsa kwaposachedwa kwa White House kumakhudza zonena kuti Purezidenti Trump adakhudzidwa ndi nyenyezi yayikulu yamakanema, Stormy Daniels. Nkhani siili choncho. Ndikuti akuyesera kuti amutontholetse. Ndiwo mlandu, mukudziwa, kuti akanayenera kulipira madola milioni ngati angayankhule za izi. Mukuganiza bwanji pa izi, zonse kuyambira pamenepo mpaka, zonse, ndi #Inenso ndi #TimesUp zokhuza kugwiriridwa ndi kugwiriridwa?
REBECCA SOLINIT: Chabwino, chimodzi mwazinthu zomwe ziyenera kunenedwa, ndipo mwina anthu ambiri akudziwa, ndikuti mapangano osadziwika ndi gawo lodziwika bwino la kukhazikika kwamakampani, komanso mtundu wa nkhanza zogonana. Nthawi zina amakakamizidwa kwa ophunzira aku koleji ndi yunivesite. Nthawi zambiri amakakamizidwa pamilandu yachiwembu. Mwachitsanzo, mayi amene anaimba mlandu Dominique Strauss-Kahn wogwiririra analandira chigamulo. Ali ndi malo odyera odabwitsa ku Bronx omwe adayambitsa, ndadyerako. Anayamba ndi zotsatira zake-
AMY GOODMAN: Ndipo ndizodabwitsa, wogwira ntchito ku hotelo, yemwe adatsutsa-
REBECCA SOLINIT: Inde.
AMY GOODMAN: -m'modzi mwa amuna amphamvu kwambiri, yemwe kale anali mtsogoleri wa IMF-ndi kulondola?
REBECCA SOLINIT: Inde.
AMY GOODMAN: -akhoza kukhala pulezidenti wa France.
REBECCA SOLINIT: Umenewo unali mlandu wodabwitsa, umene anatha kuumvetsera. Ndipo iye, ndithudi, anaukiridwa. Anasumiranso bwino pawailesi yakanema yomwe imati ndi hule. Ndipo, inu mukudziwa, anthu anayesa kumletsa iye pomunyoza iye, kumutcha iye hule, kuti, “Bwanji ife timvere iye?” Koma amayi ena angapo adabwera chifukwa cha kulimba mtima kwake komanso adalankhula za nkhanza zogonana ndi Dominique Strauss-Kahn, ndikumaliza ntchito yake ndikuwononga mbiri yake, yomwe imayenera kuwonongedwa.
Koma anasaina pangano losaululika. Zomwe Stormy Daniels adasaina ndichinthu chodziwika bwino chomwe ndi chimodzi mwazinthu zambiri zotsekereza akazi ndi china chake chomwe ndikuganiza kuti sichiyenera kukhalapo. Sichipambano ngati gawo la zomwe muyenera kukhazikika ndikukhala chete. Imadzetsa vuto, lomwe ndi loti mutati ayi, mutanena kuti izi siziyenera kuchitika, mudatonthola.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Chabwino, Rebecca, monga mwanenera, zomwe zinakuchitikirani komanso monga #Inenso ziwonetsero-
REBECCA SOLINIT: Eya.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Ndikutanthauza, izi, zochitika za kuzunzidwa kwa kugonana, kutonthola ngakhale kugwiriridwa ndizofala kwambiri. Kodi mukuganiza kuti ndi chiyani chomwe chimapangitsa kuti gululi liyambe monga momwe linachitira, ndi mavumbulutso okhudza Harvey Weinstein?
REBECCA SOLINIT: Mukudziwa, ndikuganiza kuti gululi latenga nthawi yayitali. Ndipo ndikuganiza kuti zili ngati kusuntha kwamfuti komwe tikuwona tsopano, kuti pali chinthu chimodzi chokha: kuwombera ku Parkland, Harvey - atolankhani omwe adawululira zazaka makumi ambiri za Harvey Weinstein zakuzunza koopsa komanso kuukira akazi. Koma nthaka inali itakonzedwa. Ndi kayendedwe ka mfuti, tinali titagwiritsa ntchito zifukwa zonse ndi zodzilungamitsa ndi kuzemba, malingaliro onse ndi mapemphero. Ndi mayendedwe a akazi nawonso, ine ndikuganiza chinthu chimodzi chinali chakuti akazi kwenikweni kukhuta. Ndipo tawona kuti zaka zisanu zapitazi, chifukwa gululi likubwerera kupitirira #Inenso. Zimapita ku 2012 ndi zina zambiri zomwe zachitika zaka zisanu zapitazi.
Ndipo ndikuganiza kuti zidachitikanso chifukwa zina mwapang'onopang'ono, zotopetsa, mukudziwa, ntchito zachikazi zomwe sizimazindikirika - kupanga akazi omwe amayang'anira zomwe nkhaniyo ili, akazi omwe ali oweruza, akazi omwe amapanga. Amayi omwe ali ndi maudindo adathandizira kusintha omwe amamvedwa komanso nkhani zomwe zili zofunika komanso zomwe ufulu wawo umafunikira. Ndikuganiza kuti ife—inu mukudziwa, tinali ndi nkhani ngati izi m’mbuyomo zomwe sizinamveke, sizinapangitse amuna ena ambiri kuchotsedwa ntchito, sizinapangitse kuzindikira kuti ili ndi vuto ladongosolo.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Ndiye munadabwa?
REBECCA SOLINIT: Ndimadabwa nthawi zonse kuti iyi ndi nthawi, mukudziwa, chifukwa ngati ndani ankadziwa kuti kuwombera kwa Parkland kudzakhala kosiyana ndi kuwombera kwina kulikonse kusukulu ndikuti timayang'ana kwambiri opulumuka ndi mawu awo okongola m'malo mwa akufa ndi ophedwa. wakupha? Inu mukudziwa, kotero ine ndinali, ndipo ine sindinatero. Ndipo, mukudziwa, zinthu izi zimachitika ngati zivomezi: kukhazikika kwanthawi yayitali, kukhala ngati kuyala maziko kenako kuphulika mwadzidzidzi.
AMY GOODMAN: izi ndi Demokarase Tsopano! Ndine Amy Goodman, ndi Nermeen Shaikh, ndi Gawo 2 la zokambirana zathu ndi Rebecca Solnit-Rebecca Solnit, wolemba mbiri, wolemba nkhani, wolemba, wochirikiza, nkhani yake yodziwika bwino yakuti "Amuna Mundifotokozere Zinthu" pokondwerera zaka 10 izi. mwezi. Ndipotu, iye ali ku New York; usikuuno akhala akuchita chochitika chachikulu ku Cooper Union. Mwa mabuku ake, Chiyembekezo mu Mdima ndipo, posachedwapa, Mayi Wa Mafunso Onse. Iye akuthandizira mkonzi ku Harper a, kumene iye ndi mkazi woyamba kulemba pafupipafupi ndime ya “Easy Chair”.
Ine ndikufuna ndikufunseni inu za izo. Mkazi woyamba kulemba ndime ya "Easy Chair"?
REBECCA SOLINIT: Mukudziwa, ndizochititsa manyazi kukhala Jackie Robinson m'zaka za zana la 21. Ndikaganiza Harper a, zili ngati, “N’chifukwa chiyani sanalembe ntchito Willa Cather mu 1911? Chifukwa chiyani sanalembe Hannah Arendt mu 1950? Koma zinatenga nthawi, koma ndili pomwepo, pampando womwe suli wophweka nthawi zonse.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Nanga bwanji ili, buku lanu laposachedwa, Mayi wa Mafunso Onse? Ndi chiyani chimenecho?
REBECCA SOLINIT: Ndinkhani ina yankhani zachikazi, yomwe ili ndi nkhani yayikulu yatsopano yomwe inali isanasindikizidwe kale yotchedwa "Mbiri Yachidule Yakutonthola," kuyang'ana mozama pa funso ili la momwe aliyense mu chikhalidwe ichi amatonthozedwa mwanjira ina. mumtundu wakukhala chete kwa amuna ndi akazi, ndi njira, kuchokera ku zofunikira zakuya zachikhalidwe mpaka, mukudziwa, zinthu monga, monga momwe timalankhulira, mapangano osadziwika omwe amachititsa akazi kukhala chete.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Koma ndi chiyani ichi, kukhala chete kofanana pakati pa amuna ndi akazi? Kodi amuna amatonthola bwanji? Kodi izo zikusonyeza?
REBECCA SOLINIT: Pali mzere wokongola wokhala ndi mabelu, ndikadayenera kusanthula bukhuli kuti ndifufuze, za momwe amuna - nkhanza zoyamba za amuna achiwawa zimadzitsutsa okha, mukudziwa, chinthu chomwe ndikuganiza kuti ndichofunika kwambiri, musanachite. kuchitira nkhanza munthu wina, muyenera kupha china chake mwa inu, chifundo, kulumikizana, zomwe ndikuganiza kuti ndizobadwa mwa anthu osawonongeka. Kotero, ndiyeno, mowonjezereka, zinthu zonse zomwe amuna sanganene, siziyenera kumverera, siziyenera kukhala. Mukudziwa, amuna amakhalanso ndi malamulo okhwima okhudza zomwe angachite ndi kunena, mukudziwa, zomwe ambiri aiwo - olankhula ngati munthu yemwe adakulira pakati pa amuna achiwerewere ku San Francisco - adasiya, koma ambiri aiwo. sindinatero.
AMY GOODMAN: Kodi mungatiwerengere? Ndinu wolemba wodabwitsa. Kodi mungawerenge kwa ife kuchokera Mayi wa Mafunso Onse? Apanso, Rebecca Solnit, wolemba, wolemba mbiri, wotsutsa, buku lake laposachedwa, Mayi wa Mafunso Onse, ndi nkhani zatsopano mmenemo.
REBECCA SOLINIT: "Ngati ufulu wolankhula, ngati kukhala wodalirika, ngati kumveka ndi mtundu wa chuma, chuma chimenecho chikugawidwanso. Kwa nthawi yaitali pakhala anthu osankhika omwe ali ndi mawu omveka komanso odalirika, omwe ali pansi pa anthu opanda mawu. Pamene chuma chikugawidwanso, kusamvetsetsana kodabwitsa kwa olemekezeka kumaphulika mobwerezabwereza, mkwiyo ndi kusakhulupirira kuti mkazi kapena mwana uyu adayesa kulankhula, kuti anthu amamukhulupirira, kuti mawu ake amawerengera chinachake, kuti choonadi chake. akhoza kuthetsa ulamuliro wa munthu wamphamvu. Mawu awa, amveka, amasokoneza mgwirizano wamphamvu. "
Ndipo ndidalemba kuti zisanachitike Harvey Weinstein zomwe zidachitika ndikugwiritsa ntchito Dominique Strauss-Kahn, zomwe ndidapeza kuti ndizofunikira kwambiri pomwe zidachitika mu 2011, mukudziwa, komanso momwe zidachitikira, mwanjira zabwino ndi zoyipa - njira zomwe adawukira. , momwe iye komabe, monga Anita Hill, yemwenso adawukiridwa, mukudziwa, adagwiritsa ntchito mphamvu zazikulu, komanso mphamvu zosintha mwanjira zina. Ndiye…
“Ndani akumveka ndi amene sakulongosola mmene zinthu zilili. Iwo amene ali nawo, nthawi zambiri pamtengo wakukhala chete mwa iwo okha, amasamukira pakati; iwo omwe amaphatikiza zomwe sizikumveka kapena zomwe zimaphwanya omwe amawuka chete amachotsedwa. Pofotokozanso za omwe mawu ake amayamikiridwa, timafotokozeranso za chikhalidwe chathu komanso zomwe timayendera. "
Ndipo, mukudziwa, ichi ndi chinthu chotakata, kaya mukunena za Coalition of Immokalee Workers, yomwe yapereka liwu kwa ogwira ntchito m'mafamu opanda zikalata, za ana awa, amphamvu miliyoni, akuimirira ndikupangitsa mawu a ana kumveka, mawu. motsutsana ndi nkhanza za mfuti kapena gawo latsopanoli la gulu la amayi kapena mawu ena ambiri omwe tawamva. Pali kugawanso kodabwitsa kwa mphamvu komwe kukuchitika panthawi ino. Ndipo ndimawona kuti ndizosangalatsa komanso zokhala ndi chiyembekezo, ngakhale zili zonse.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Chabwino, mu Chidutswa tinakambirana mu Part 1 za zoyankhulana, zanu Harper a piece, chimodzi mwazinthu zomwe mumanenanso ndikuti "pamene amphamvu amaumirira kuti palibe amene akudziwa, zomwe akutanthauza ndikuti zochita zawo zimawonedwa ndi palibe. palibe amadziwa." Kotero, kodi mungalankhule za izo, kufunika kwa izo? Komanso, makamaka pankhani ya zomwe - zomwe mwangotchulazi, Dominique Strauss-Kahn, IMF wotsogolera panthawiyo, mu 2011, pamene adamenyana ndi mdzakazi uyu ku hotelo ku New York City, akukamba za kusiyana kwa mphamvu kumeneko ndi momwe, ndithudi, ayenera kuti adamuwona ngati palibe.
REBECCA SOLINIT: Inde, pali zodabwitsa nkhani ndi David Graeber mu The Guardian, zomwe zidatuluka, mukudziwa, pambuyo pa izi #Inenso mphindi, za vuto la amayi ake omwe adachitidwa chipongwe m'bwalo lamasewera ku New York, mukudziwa, mkati mwa zaka za zana la 20, pomwe amalankhula zakuwona nkhani ina, mukudziwa, kukhala munthu yemwe sanali wotero, mutha. nenani, "wadzuka" - ndikuwonanso nkhani ina yokhudza wogwira ntchito ku hotelo yemwe adamenyedwa ndi munthu wamphamvu sabata lomwelo, akuganiza kuti, "Kodi izi ndizochitika mwachilendo?" kenako ndikuzindikira, monga, "Izi ziyenera kuchitika nthawi zonse, ndipo sitimangomva za izo."
Ndipo inu mukuwona, kaya Donald Lipenga akunena kuti akazi 19 akumuimba mlandu wogwiririra ndi kuzunza onse ndi abodza; momwe anthu amalimbikira kuti amayi omwe akubwera kudzalankhula za Bill Cosby onse akupanga zinthu, kotero kuti tikuuzidwa kuti mawu a Cosby anali ndi mphamvu zambiri kuposa akazi asanu, akazi 10, akazi 20, pamapeto pake akazi 60; ndi Dominique Strauss-Kahn, Weinstein. Ndipo pali lingaliro loti nditha kunyozetsa mayiyu, palibe amene angawamvere, ndimatha kuwachititsa manyazi kukhala chete, nditha kuwatsutsa kuti akhale chete ndikuwopseza mwalamulo.
Mlandu wa Stormy Daniels ndiwodabwitsa kwambiri. Ndimasilira kwambiri kulimba mtima kwake komanso nzeru zake. Ndipo akutsatira munthu wamphamvu kwambiri padziko lapansi, ndipo akhoza kumugwetsa pansi. Ndikumvetsa kuti amayi ena akutuluka ndi nkhani zofanana, kuphatikizapo amayi 19 omwe ndawatchula kale. Ndipo akuti, "Ayi, ndilibe chifukwa chilichonse chosungira chinsinsi ichi, ndipo sindikhala chete." Ndipo mutha kuwona lingaliro - kuti Trump adachita izi pongoganiza kuti alibe chete, ndikuti zikasweka, amphamvu amachita mantha.
Ndipo izi zimachitika-inu mukudziwa, ndimalemba zambiri zachikazi, koma nthawi zonse ndimaziwona ngati zofanana ndi zochitika zina zosagwirizana, za mawu osagwirizana. Ndipo, mukudziwa, mumamva za anthu omwe amaonedwa kuti ndi otsika, anthu omwe ali antchito, anthu - mukudziwa, ana, anthu omwe - mukudziwa, apolisi otsutsa anthu omwe adawamanga. Ndipo tamva izi nthawi zambiri ndi Black Lives Matter, apolisi akuti, "Izi ndi zomwe zidachitika," ndipo mwina ndichifukwa cha kanema wam'manja kuti tatha kutsimikizira anthu ambiri omwe sanafune. kuti akhulupirire enawo kuti apolisi amanama kwambiri, ndipo munthu uyu adawomberedwa kumbuyo, kuti munthuyu analibe chida, munthuyu sanali kuopseza. Mukudziwa, ndipo ndikuganiza kuti pali mtundu wa demokalase wa mawu omwe amapanga ulamuliro wa chowonadi, ndi kusalingana komwe kumapanga mtundu wa boma la mabodza, ndi zina - monga kusintha kwa mphamvu, chuma cha choonadi ndi kusintha kwa mawu, m'njira zosangalatsa kwambiri.
AMY GOODMAN: Lankhulani za momwe mayendedwewa amadyerana wina ndi mzake. Muli ndi kayendetsedwe ka ufulu wa anthu othawa kwawo, Purezidenti Trump, mukudziwa, akulankhula za momwe amakondera achinyamata otetezedwa ndi DACA, kenako amachotsa chitetezo cha DACA kuchokera kwa iwo. Inu, ndithudi, muli nawo #Inenso mayendedwe, inde kanema wa kanema wa Trump akuti, "Sindingathe kudzithandiza ndekha. Ndimangogwira akazi”—eti?—“kugwira maliseche awo.”
REBECCA SOLINIT: Eya.
AMY GOODMAN: Muli nawo, pakali pano, ophunzira ochokera ku Parkland. Tangomva kumene za mtsikana wina amene anaphedwa, wophunzira wa kusekondale ku Alabama, choncho anthu akunena kuti anthu azikhala chete kwa mphindi 18 m’malo mwa 17. Tisaiwale kuti ana akuda amaphedwa nthawi 10 kuposa ana achizungu ndi mfuti. , anthu omwe amagwiritsa ntchito mfuti. Koma kusuntha kumodzi pambuyo pa mzake, mtundu wa mphamvu zomwe zikumanga mu nthawi ya Trump.
REBECCA SOLINIT: Mukudziwa, ndikuganiza kuti zonsezi ndizochitika za demokalase, kubweretsa aliyense patebulo, kupereka aliyense mawu, kuchitira ulemu aliyense. Izi zimapita ku Coalition of Immokalee Workers, yomwe ndasilira kwambiri kwa zaka 15 kapena kupitilira apo, ndipo, mukudziwa, ya Black Lives Matter, chifukwa cha kuyambiranso kodabwitsa kwa mawu a Native kuzungulira Standing Rock ndi mayendedwe ena a mapaipi.
AMY GOODMAN: Chosangalatsa pamfundoyi, ndinali chabe bwalo ku Brooklyn pomwe wolemba mbiri waku America waku America akuti, "Tisaiwale kuti gulu la #NoDAPL, lomwe lidapeza mphamvu pansi pa Obama, yemwe adachedwa kwambiri pamasewerawa." Gulu la Black Lives Matter linamangidwanso m'zaka za Democratic, zaka zomwe Democratic Party inali kukwera kumwamba, mukudziwa, pamene Purezidenti Obama-
REBECCA SOLINIT: Eya.
AMY GOODMAN: -Purezidenti woyamba waku Africa-America, anali purezidenti.
REBECCA SOLINIT: Mukudziwa, apurezidenti samakonza chilichonse, mukudziwa, zomwe mayendedwe amachita. Ndipo ndizosangalatsa tsopano, chifukwa tili ndi ulamuliro womwe ndi wankhanza kwambiri womwe takhala nawo. Koma sindikuona ngati akupambana. Ndikuwona mayendedwe odabwitsa awa, nthawi zina zinthu zophiphiritsa, monga kusinthidwa kwa fano la Confederate ndi fano la Harriet Tubman sabata yatha kapena sabata ino, ndipo, mukudziwa, Richard Spencer akukhala ngati akungotuluka m'masukulu aku koleji, kukhala ngati kusiya. njira yake. Mukudziwa, ndikuwona zinthu zambiri pomwe ali ndi mphamvu zovomerezeka, koma palibe mphamvu yovomerezeka yomwe ili yofunika, mphamvu yachikhalidwe yomwe ikubwera.
Ndipo zinthu ziwiri zomwe zandipangitsa kukhala ndi chiyembekezo chotere - chabwino, chiyembekezo kwakanthawi, ndikuti 50 peresenti ya anthu osakwana zaka 18 m'dziko lino si azungu. Chipani cha Republican chikulephera mphamvu, chifukwa ndi mphamvu ya madandaulo oyera omwe amadalira kuponderezedwa kwa ovota. Magulu omenyera ufulu wovota akuchotsa kuponderezedwa kumeneko. Ndiyeno, nawonso, kafukufuku watsopano anatuluka amene ananena kuti Apulotesitanti oyera ndi 43 peresenti yokha ya dziko lino. Moyo wanga wonse, ndauzidwa kuti monga, chabwino, Achiprotestanti oyera ndi chikhalidwe chopambana, ndipo pamapeto pake iwo achita zomwe akufuna, ndipo enafe tatsala pang'ono kutha ndipo sitiyenera kutero. iwo. Koma zimenezo sizowonanso. Ndi 43 peresenti yokha ya anthu. Ndipo tikulowa chikhalidwe chomwe chikupita-chomwe chakhala chosiyana kwambiri, momwe azungu sadzakhala ambiri kwa nthawi yaitali.
Ndili ku California, komwe kuli azungu ochepa. Ndipo, mukudziwa, ndikuwona izi zikukwera mphamvu zachikhalidwe. Ndikuwona momwe ana akutuluka ku Parkland, omwe adafikira mtundu wa achinyamata akutawuni omwe akukumana ndi ziwawa zamtundu wina, mukudziwa, adutsa kale, amapeza kale zomwe mungathe - mukakamba zachiwawa, muyenera kutero. kulankhula za mtundu ndi jenda ndi kalasi, komanso. Ndipo ndikuganiza kuti pali demokalase iyi, horizontalism, kuphatikizika uku, ndi kukana chiwawa, komwe kuli mtundu waulamuliro womwe ndili ndi ufulu wodziwa ngati mukukhala kapena kufa, ndili ndi ufulu wakukakamizani. m'njira yomaliza iyi. Chifukwa chake ndikuganiza kuti pali kusintha kodabwitsa kwamakhalidwe ndi mawu komwe tikuwona tsopano, komwe kungakhalepo.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Ndikufuna kubwereranso makamaka ku chinachake chimene inu ananena za #Inenso kuyenda. Mu a Chidutswa kwa Oprah.com, mudalemba, mawu akuti, "Chimodzi mwangozi zazikulu ndikuti polimbana ndi mdani wanu, kapena kumugonjetsa, mumakhala iye. Ichi ndichifukwa chake, ngakhale kuti chilango cha ovutitsa chingakhale choyenera ndi choyenera, kulanga ndi kubwezera sikudzatifikitsa kumene tifunikira kupita.” Kodi mungafotokoze chifukwa chake mukuganiza choncho komanso zomwe mukuganiza kuti zikuyenera kutitengera komwe tikuyenera kupita?
REBECCA SOLINIT: Eya, ndipo ambiri otsutsa akazi amakonda kuganiza kuti akazi ndi odana ndi anthu omwe ali ndi chilango chopanda malire, monga momwe mikangano ina yaposachedwapa yakhalira. Koma ndikuganiza, kwenikweni, mikangano yathu yakhala yosiyana kwambiri, kuti kwenikweni mavuto omwe timakumana nawo ndi mavuto a chikhalidwe. Iwo ali mozama mu chikhalidwe. Sikuti mungathamangitse amuna awa 36 kapena amuna awa 365 kapena amuna awa 179,000, ndipo tithana ndi vuto la kugwiriridwa. Zinthu izi zimamangidwa mu chikhalidwe chomwe chimatilemekeza mosiyana, chomwe chimatipatsa magawo osiyanasiyana ofikira ndi mphamvu.
Ndipo chokhacho—inu mukudziwa, ndipo kwa ine, kusinthika komwe kudzakhala kofunikira ndikuchotsa chikhumbo chofuna kuchita zinthu izi ndikuchotsa chikhumbo chofuna kugwiritsa ntchito mfuti ngati zizindikilo zachimuna, chikhumbo chofuna kugwirira anthu, chikhumbo chofuna kugwiririra anthu. kuchitira nkhanza anthu. Ndipo, mukudziwa, ndikuwona kusintha kwa ntchito momwe anthu akulera ana awo, anyamata ndi atsikana, m'njira zomwe timaganizira za jenda ndikuchotsa zina mwazinthu zosagwirizana, komanso mtundu wa nkhanza zomwe zakhala zikuchitika. kupitirira pang'onopang'ono kwa theka lapitalo. Ndipo kotero, ndi ntchito yaikulu, yozama ya chikhalidwe yomwe ikuchitika bwino ndipo, m'zaka zambiri zikubwerazi, idzawoneka ngati kusintha kwakukulu, ndi kusintha momwe zimachitikira nthawi ino, zomwe sizikutanthauza kusintha kwa boma, koma kusintha. za zinthu zazikulu, zozama komanso zamphamvu kwambiri.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Chabwino, yankho lanu ndi chiyani kwa anthu omwe akhala akutsutsa #Inenso gulu, ndani amene akhala akunena kuti nzowonadi—zapita patali, moti zakulitsa kusiyana kulikonse pakati pa mitundu yosiyanasiyana ya nkhanza kwa akazi, ndipo panthaŵi ino n’kutheka kuti likuchita zinthu mopanda phindu mwa kuchulukitsira mopambanitsa?
REBECCA SOLINIT: Mukudziwa, sindinganene kuti ine—chabwino, ndikuganiza kuti zonena zina ndi zazikulu kuposa zina. Koma ine ndikuganiza ndi—chomwe chapita patali kwambiri ndi kupanda chiwerewere, chifukwa mkazi amagwiriridwa mphindi iliyonse kapena ziwiri m’dziko muno, mkazi amakwapulidwa pafupifupi masekondi 11 aliwonse m’dziko muno, kuposa mkazi tsiku lililonse amaphedwa ngati— okondedwa kapena omwe kale anali nawo, ndipo, mukudziwa, mitundu ina ya nkhanza ndi mliri. Mukudziwa, ndikuti gululi likhala litapita patali pomwe zinthu izi sizikhalanso zomwe zimakhudza miyoyo ya amayi tsiku lililonse ndipo, mukudziwa, zimachepetsa ufulu ndi mphamvu ndi chidaliro ndi kufanana. Chifukwa chake sichinapite patali mokwanira. Izi sizikutanthauza kuti kulibe mtundu wa zolakwika ndi kusasamala ndi chisokonezo ndi zina zotero, ndipo kuti aliyense amene akukhudzidwayo ndi wangwiro ndi womveka bwino komanso wodziwika bwino.
AMY GOODMAN: Mgwirizano -
REBECCA SOLINIT: Koma-
AMY GOODMAN: kugwirizana pakati pa kuwomberana anthu ambiri ndi nkhanza kwa amayi? Kaŵirikaŵiri zapezedwa kuti kaŵirikaŵiri amuna achizungu odzisunga okha amene achita nawo kuwomberana kwakukulu kumeneku mwina amachitira nkhanza, kupha, kumenya bwenzi, mayi, mnzawo. Ngakhale wowombera yemwe ife timamudziwa kwenikweni pang'ono, modabwitsa, ku Las Vegas, kuti, mukudziwa, anawombera kuchokera ku hotelo ya Mandalay Bay kumusi ku konsati ya nyimbo za dziko lino, ogwira ntchito ku Starbucks akunena kuti ankabwera; amamuopa kubwera tsiku lililonse ndi mnzake ndikumunyoza chifukwa amapeza khofi. Kuyambira pamenepo mpaka, inu mukudziwa, a—Adam Lanza ku Sandy Hook, woyamba yemwe iye anamupha anali amayi ake, ndiye iye anapita ku sukulu.
REBECCA SOLINIT: Ndipo mnyamata yemwe anapha anthu 50 pa kalabu yausiku ku Florida, ku Orlando, anali—
AMY GOODMAN: Omar Mateen ku Pulse.
REBECCA SOLINIT: Inde, analinso ndi mbiri ya nkhanza zapakhomo. Ndipo mnyamata yemwe anapha akazi pa-anthu a Planned Parenthood ku Colorado zaka zingapo zapitazo. Mukudziwa, ndikuganiza kuti -
AMY GOODMAN: Ndipo tsopano zaposachedwa, anthu atatu, azungu, omwe adangomangidwa chifukwa cha kuukira mzikiti waku Minnesota, zomwe zidachitika kalekale, adayesanso kuukira chipatala cha azimayi ku Illinois, m'modzi wa iwo, wachiwiri kwa sheriff. , anali atapereka ndondomeko zoyesa kupeza mgwirizano womanga khoma la Trump kumalire akumwera.
REBECCA SOLINIT: Oo Mulungu wanga. Eya, pali maubwenzi ambiri—ndipo tafotokozapo zina mwa izo—kuti pali kugwirizana kwakukulu pakati pa nkhanza za m’banja ndi owomberana anthu ambiri, ngakhale kuti kuwomberana anthu ambiri sikuchitika kawirikawiri, ndipo nkhanza za m’banja n’zofala modabwitsa. Koma ine ndikuganiza pali—muli, mu ziwawa, aulamuliro. Timalankhula za zinthu zina, za psychology ndi zina. Koma kuganiza kuti ndili ndi ufulu wakulamulirani, ndili ndi ufulu wakulanga, zomwe ndikufuna ndizofunikira, zomwe mukufuna sizitero. Ndipo chiwawa ndi mtundu wa mawu otsimikizira zomwe ziyenera kukhala ndi kufufutitsa mawu a anthu ena, mwina pokana kuti anene kuti ayi, mukudziwa, kudzilamulira, kapena kuwonongeratu mawu awo powawombera.
Ndipo ku Bay Area, tidangowombera moyipa azimayi atatu pamalo omenyera zida zankhondo, kuphatikiza Jennifer Gonzales, yemwe anali ndi pakati pa miyezi isanu ndi umodzi, ndi msirikali wokwiya yemwe adawagwira. Ndipo, mukudziwa, ndinapita pa intaneti kunena kuti izi siziyenera kuchitika, uwu ndi mliri. Ndipo ndidafufuza ndi mawu ochepa ndipo ndidapeza nkhani zambiri zomwe sizinafotokozedwe, mukudziwa, kupha amuna kapena akazi okhaokha, kudzipha, azimayi akuphedwa, m'modzi mwa iwo adawotchedwa, ndi zina zambiri. mliri, ndipo ndi wowopsa.
Mfundo yakuti pomalizira pake tikukamba za izo, zomwe sitinali zaka zisanu kapena zisanu ndi chimodzi zapitazo - sitinayenera kunena kuti pali vuto ndi amuna, kuti izi ndi za jenda. Sitinali kulumikiza madontho. Ndipo popeza ndife—ndipo ndimacheza ndi madokotala kwambiri. Nthawi zonse ndimaona ngati matenda ndi chiyambi cha chithandizo, ndipo nthawi zina chithandizo. Ndipo ndikumva ngati chimodzi mwazopambana ndikuti taloledwa poyera, pamodzi, kuzindikira momveka kuti vuto ndi chiyani. Ndipo chimenecho ndi gawo la kupita patsogolo kusintha zinthu. Ndipo ndizosangalatsa.
AMY GOODMAN: Kodi mayi ndi chiyani? Kodi mayi wa mafunso onse ndi chiyani?
REBECCA SOLINIT: O, mulungu, ndizo, mukudziwa, ndi mafunso omwe akazi amafunsidwa - chifukwa chiyani simunakwatiwe? Chifukwa chiyani ulibe ana? Umenewu ndiwo mawu oti akazi onse ayenera kukhala. Ndi mafunso achilango omwe akuyesera kukusamalirani, kukulangani chifukwa chosakhala - chifukwa chosatsatira, kuchita manyazi chifukwa chosatsatira, ndipo, mukudziwa, kufunsa kutsutsa kwanu, ndipo-inu mukudziwa, ndi chakuti nthawi zambiri kwa mkazi pali. palibe yankho lolondola. Pali chochitika chodziwika bwino chija Kalabu Yam'mawa kumene amafuna kuti adziwe ngati ali namwali, ndipo amatuluka kuti akayankha kuti inde, amuchititsa manyazi; ngati akana, adzamuchititsa manyazi. Mayi wa mafunso onse ndi chikhalidwe cha kukhala mkazi, chimene palibe yankho lolondola kupatula kukana frame ya mafunso amenewo.
AMY GOODMAN: Ndipo mabuku 80 palibe mkazi ayenera kuwerenga?
REBECCA SOLINIT: O, chinali chinthu chosangalatsa kwambiri chomwe ndidachita pawebusayiti yabwino ya LitHub. Esquire anali ndi chidutswa choyipa ichi, chomwe adapepesa ndikuchikonza, chotchedwa "80 Books Every Man Should Read," 79 mwa iwo anali amuna. Ndipo iwo sanali za zomwe mabuku ayenera kuchita, ine ndikuganiza, ndiko kutipangitsa ife kukhala achifundo kwambiri, kutipangitsa ife kumvetsetsa zochitika za anthu omwe sali ngati ife, amitundu ina ndi amuna, ndi zina zotero. Iwo analidi mabuku osankhidwa. ndipo izo zinakulangizani inu za momwe mungakhalire mwamuna, ndipo mafotokozedwewo anali amtundu wochititsa manyazi, ngati kuti mabuku, onse, kukuthandizani kukhala ngati mukuvutikira mu kanyumba kanu kakang'ono ka machismo.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Kodi mungatipatseko zitsanzo zingapo?
REBECCA SOLINIT: Oo Mulungu wanga. Iwo analankhula za Mphesa za Mkwiyo ndipo anati zonse ndi za titty. Ndipo—kodi ine sindimayenera kunena zimenezo? Inu mukudziwa, ndipo iwo ananena chinachake chamtundu wa Flannery O'Connor, yemwe anali mkazi yekha mu mndandanda wa 80 olemba, ndi zinthu monga choncho. Chifukwa chake ndidachita nthabwala za mabuku 80 omwe azimayi sayenera kuwerenga, chifukwa pali mabuku ambiri omwe ndidakulira nawo, ndikuganiza kuti akuphunzitsidwabe, omwe amauza azimayi kuti ndi ochepa kuposa, nkhani zawo sizili zapakati, iwo ndi zoseweretsa kapena zokongoletsera kapena adzakazi ulendo ngwazi, amene ali nkhani yeniyeni.
NERMEEN SHAIKH: Ndipo ndi zitsanzo ziti za izo?
REBECCA SOLINIT: O, Lolita, m’menemo mfundo yakuti ndi buku lonena za kugwiriridwa kwa ana nthaŵi zambiri siligogomezeredwa, zimene zinandisonkhezera kulemba kuti “Amuna Afotokozani. Lolita kwa Ine” monga chotsatira, pamene ine ndinali ndi vuto lalikulu la izo. Zokongola kwambiri zonse za Ernest Hemingway, Henry Miller ndi, mukudziwa, zomwe zimatchedwa onyoza amuna azaka zapakati pazaka, mabuku a anthu ngati Philip Roth ndi Saul Bellow ndi zina zambiri. Ndipo, mukudziwa, pali ngakhale-
AMY GOODMAN: Ndipo olemba omwe mumakonda?
REBECCA SOLINIT: O, olemba omwe ndimawakonda ndi ndani? O, mulungu, ndiye, mukudziwa, Virginia Woolf, George Orwell, Arundhati Roy, James Baldwin, Subcomandante Marcos, omwe nthawi zonse ndimaganiza kuti amayenera kulandira Nobel for Literature, ndi ena ambiri.
AMY GOODMAN: Chabwino, pazomwezi, ndikufuna kukuthokozani kwambiri chifukwa chokhala nafe. Rebecca Solnit, wolemba, wolemba mbiri, wotsutsa. Nkhani yake yodziwika bwino yakuti “Amuna Mundifotokozere Zinthu” ikuchita chikondwerero cha zaka 10 mwezi uno. Iye ndi mlembi wa, o, mabuku 20, kuphatikizapo Chiyembekezo mu Mdima ndipo, posachedwapa, Mayi wa Mafunso Onse.
ZNetwork imalandira ndalama kudzera mu kuwolowa manja kwa owerenga ake.
Ndalama