Noam Chomsky, yemwe anabadwa mu 1928 ndipo anayamba kuphunzitsa ku Massachusetts Institute of Technology mu 1955, amatchedwa "bambo wa zilankhulo zamakono," koma amadziwika bwino kwambiri kuti ndi wolimbikitsa ndale komanso waluntha. Wotsutsa wamkulu wakuchitapo kanthu kwa US ku Southeast Asia, Middle East, ndi Latin America, adalembanso modzudzula za capitalism yapadziko lonse lapansi ndikudzifotokoza kuti ndi wokonda ufulu wa anthu. Mabuku ake ambiri onjezerani Pa Nkhondo ndi Asia (1971); Fateful Triangle: US, Israel ndi Palestine (1983); Chilolezo Chopanga: Chuma cha Ndale cha Mass Media (ndi Edward Herman, 1988); ndi Pa Anarchism (2013).
Pakona ya ofesi yake ku MIT, Chomsky ali ndi chithunzi cha Oscar Romero ndi ma Jesuit asanu ndi mmodzi omwe anaphedwa ku El Salvador mu 1989.
Nicholas Haggerty: Ndabwera kudzakufunsani za mutu wa chithunzichi.
Noam Chomski: Ndimasunga pamenepo kuti ndizikumbukira za dziko lenileni. Komanso, zidakhala mtundu wosangalatsa wa mayeso a Rorschach. Nthawi zambiri ndimafunsa anthu ngati akudziwa kuti ndi chiyani. Achimerika, pafupifupi palibe. Azungu, mwina 10 peresenti. Anthu aku Latin America, anali onse, koma achinyamata sakudziwa.
NH: M'nkhani yaposachedwa, mudatchula za zaka makumi awiri ndi zisanu za kuphedwa kwa ma Jesuit. N'chifukwa chiyani mukupitiriza kuganiza ndi kulemba za chochitika chimodzi chokhachi?
NC: Chifukwa chimodzi, nzoipa kwambiri, koma chinanso ndi mbiri yakale. Zimenezi zinachititsa kuti zaka 10 zichite nkhanza zachigawenga ku Central America. Zaka khumi zinayamba ndi kuphedwa kwa Archbishop Romero, zinatha ndi kuphedwa kwa anzeru asanu ndi mmodzi a Yesuit. Pakati, anthu mazana awiri zikwi anaphedwa. Dziko la United States linatsutsidwa chifukwa chochita nawo zinthu zina zankhanzazi ku Khoti Loona za Ufulu wa Padziko Lonse, linakana, ndi kukulitsa nkhondo. Inali nthawi yowopsya kwambiri. Ndipo si zokhazo. Zinafikanso pachimake china chachitali. Mu 1962, Purezidenti Kennedy anasintha ntchito ya asilikali a ku Latin America kuchoka pa “chitetezo cha dziko lapansi” kukhala “chitetezo chamkati.” * Chitetezo chamkati chimatanthauza kanthu kena. Zikutanthauza nkhondo yolimbana ndi anthu anu omwe. Ndipo zimenezo zinayambitsa mbiri yoipa ya umbanda ndi nkhanza. Pamenepo, Charles Maechling, yemwe anali mtsogoleri wa njira zotsutsana ndi zigawenga ndi chitetezo pansi pa Kennedy ndi Lyndon Johnson, pambuyo pake adanena kuti izi zinasintha dziko la United States kuti likhale lolekerera chiwawa cha asilikali a ku Latin America kuti athandizire mwachindunji njira zina zomwe Heinrich Himmler anagwiritsa ntchito. Zomwe ziri zolondola. Ndipo pali zambiri: 1962 inali Vatican II. Apa m’pamene Papa Yohane XXIII anayesa kubwezera tchalitchicho ku Mauthenga Abwino, mmene chinalili Constantine asanachipange kukhala chipembedzo chovomerezeka mu Ufumu wa Roma. Zimenezo zinatengedwa mozama ndi mabishopu a ku Latin America. Anatsatira njira yabwino kwa osauka, amayesa kupeza anthu wamba kuti awerenge uthenga wabwino, kuwalinganiza. Zimenezo zinayambitsa nkhondo yolimbana ndi mpingo. Inali nkhondo yankhanza komanso yokhetsa magazi. Ofera chikhulupiriro njira yonse, ndi ena ambiri. Mayiko achitetezo chamtundu wa Neo-Nazi ku Brazil, Uruguay, Chile, Argentina. Pomalizira pake anadza ku Central America m’ma 1980. Inali nthawi yoopsa. Ndipo kwenikweni chinatha pa November 16, 1989, ndi kuphedwa kwa Ajesuit asanu ndi mmodzi ku El Salvador. Ichi ndi chochitika cha tanthauzo lalikulu kwambiri la mbiri yakale. Anthu a ku United States ayenera kudziwa za izi. Ife tiri ndi udindo pa izo. Ndizoipa kwambiri kuposa chilichonse chomwe chinachitika ku East Europe panthawiyo.
NH: Munatchulapo Yohane XXIII kusuntha mpingo kubwerera ku Mauthenga Abwino. Mukuwona Papa Francis akusuntha tchalitchi mwanjira yofananira?
NC: Ndi mtundu wa ntchito yomwe ikuchitika. Ndikuganiza kuti pali zisonyezo, masitepe ena mbali imeneyo. Tiwona.
NH: Nthawi zambiri mumalankhula molemekeza za mpingo waku Latin America. Komabe, mufilimu ya Michael Gondry Kodi Ndi Munthu Wamtali Wosangalala?, mumatchula za kukhala ndi mantha aakulu a Akatolika omwe anakulira ku Philadelphia. Kodi panali munthu kapena chochitika chomwe chinasintha izi kwa inu?
NC: Ndinayamba kusintha kumayambiriro kwa zaka za m’ma 1960, pamene ndinayamba kukumana ndi anthu a m’tchalitchi cha Katolika monga Dan Berrigan ndi Dorothy Day—anthu odabwitsa kwambiri. Ndiyeno ndinapita ku Central America maulendo angapo. Mmodzi wa anzanga apamtima anali mkulu wa UCA—Yunivesite ya Yesuit ku Nicaragua—César Jerez. Anali ndi udindo waukulu m’tchalitchi cha ku Guatemala, koma anakakamizika kuthaŵa pamene anthu a ku Guatemala analengeza kuti adzapha Ajesuit onse. Ajesuit onse anatulutsidwa m’dzikolo, ndipo anapita ku El Salvador. Iye anali munthu wophunzira. Archbishop Romero anali ngati wamba—munthu woona mtima, wakhalidwe labwino, koma wopanda maphunziro. Jerez anakhala waluntha m'nyumba yake. Kodi mukukumbukira kalata yotchuka imene bishopu wamkulu anatumiza kwa Pulezidenti Carter, yomulimbikitsa kuti asapereke thandizo kwa akuluakulu a boma? Jerez adalemba. Chinachake chochititsa chidwi kwambiri chinachitika. Sindinathe kulemba za izi chifukwa palibe zolemba. Jerez anandiuza kuti analembera kalata Romero, ndipo tsiku limene kalatayo inafika ku Washington, analandira foni kuchokera ku Vatican. Zikuoneka kuti akuluakulu a Carter anapempha Vatican kuti asiye wansembe wovutitsa ameneyu. Iwo ankadziwa chimene iye anali kuchita. Jerez anapemphedwa kuti apite ku Roma nthawi yomweyo. Iye anapita ku Roma ndipo anakumana ndi mkulu wa asilikali a Yesuit, amene anamufunsa chimene anali kuchita. Anamuuza, ndipo adapeza thandizo kuti apitirize. Iye anakomana ndi papa. Jerez adanena kuti papa anali ngati wosadzipereka. Sananene kuti siyani ndipo sananene kuti pitirizani, choncho Jerez anatenga zimenezo kukhala chilolezo chopitiriza. Anabwerera ku San Salvador ndipo patapita masiku angapo Romero anaphedwa. Kenako Jerez anathawira ku Nicaragua. Ndipotu nditapita ku Nicaragua, ndinkakhala kunyumba ya Ajesuit. Zinali kusintha ndithu.
NH: Munakulira m’Malemba Achihebri, ndipo mumanena kuti Amosi anali mneneri wanu wokondedwa. Kodi mwalimbikitsidwa ndi aneneri popereka machenjezo anu okhudza zoopsa zomwe zingachitike chifukwa cha ngozi za nyukiliya ndi zachilengedwe?
NC: Kumeneko ndiko kudzikuza kwambiri. Zomwe zimatanthauziridwa mu Chingerezi ngati “mneneri” sizikutanthauza mneneri. Iwo kwenikweni amatanthauza luntha. Iwo anali omwe tingawatchule kuti anzeru otsutsa. Amosi anati: “Ine sindine mneneri. Ine sindine mwana wa mneneri. Ndine mbusa wamba komanso mlimi.” Iye anali kudzitalikitsa yekha kwa amene tingawatchule otsogola aluntha, ndi kuwalankhulira anthu mwaluso kwambiri. Komabe, Yeremiya sanamuchitire zabwino chifukwa chochonderera kuti amuchitire chifundo ndi chilungamo. Koma ndizofanana. Anthu amene timawatcha aneneri ndikuganiza kuti anali anzeru oyambirira otsutsa, ndipo amawatenga ngati anzeru otsutsa—moipa kwambiri. Iwo akumangidwa, kukankhidwira ku chipululu. Mfumu Ahabu, yemwe ndi chitsanzo chabwino kwambiri cha zinthu zoipa m’Baibulo, anadzudzula Eliya kuti ‘anadana ndi Isiraeli. Uyu ndi Myuda woyamba wodzida, chiyambi cha mawuwa. Zikupita mpaka pano. Ndiyo mbiriyakale ya aluntha. Ambiri a iwo ndi aneneri onyenga, osyasyalika m’bwalo. Aneneri enieni ndi amene amachitiridwa nkhanza. Momwe amachitidwira moyipa zimatengera chikhalidwe cha anthu. Mofanana ndi ku Eastern Europe, iwo ankachitiridwa nkhanza kwambiri. Ku Latin America, adaphedwa.
NH: Mwanenapo m'mafunso kuti kusintha kwauzimu kuyenera kuchitika kuti ntchito ya libertarian Socialist ipambane, ndikuti ntchitoyi ibweretsa kusintha kwauzimu pakati pa anthu.
NC: Payenera kukhala kusintha kwauzimu pakati pa anthu ambiri, omwe ayenera kukhala okonzeka kuzindikira kuti kuponderezana kwawo si lamulo lachirengedwe. Izi n’zimene mabishopu aku Latin America anali kuchita pamene ankapanga magulu a anthu opanda pake. Amayesa kuti alimi azindikire kuti mutha kutenga tsogolo lanu m'manja mwanu. Ndi zomwe gulu lomenyera ufulu wachibadwidwe lidachita kuno. Ndi zomwe gulu la azimayi lidachita. Gulu la amayi linayamba ndi magulu ang’onoang’ono olimbikitsa kuzindikira, kumene akazi ankalankhulana kuti: “Sitiyenera kuvomereza kuponderezedwa kotereku. Ndizodabwitsa kwambiri ku United States. Pali zovuta zenizeni, zazikulu pano, zomwe tidawona chisankho chapakati pazaka zapitazi. Ndi chodabwitsa m'mbiri ya America. Izo zimapita mmbuyo. Ili nthawi zonse lakhala dziko lolemera kwambiri komanso lotetezeka kwambiri, ndipo nthawi zina dziko loopsa kwambiri padziko lapansi. M’zaka zoyambirira, ngozi inali kwa aliyense pafupi ndi ife, akapolo, Amwenye Achimereka, Amexican. Pomalizira pake inakula mu 1898 mpaka ku Caribbean, Cuba, Puerto Rico, Hawaii, ndi Philippines. Kwenikweni, mawu akuti "chitetezo cha dziko" sanagwiritsidwe ntchito mpaka m'ma 1930. Ndipo pali chifukwa. Panthawiyo, United States inali itayamba kukhala padziko lonse lapansi. Izi zisanachitike United States inali yaikulu kwambiri m’chigawocho—Britain inali ulamuliro waukulu kwambiri padziko lonse. Pambuyo pa Nkhondo Yachiwiri Yapadziko Lonse, chitetezo cha dziko chili paliponse, chifukwa tinali ndi dziko lapansi, choncho chitetezo chathu chikuwopsezedwa kulikonse. Osati kumalire athu okha, koma kulikonse-kotero muyenera kukhala ndi zida zankhondo chikwi padziko lonse lapansi "chitetezo." Pakadali pano, tili ndi chitetezo chachikulu kwambiri chomwe dziko lililonse lidakhalapo. Ndipo pamodzi ndi zimenezo pamabwera mantha. United States ndi amodzi mwa mayiko omwe ali ndi mantha kwambiri padziko lapansi. Zimabwereranso ku makoloni. Yang'anani pa Declaration of Independence. Mmodzi mwa milandu yomwe Mfumu George III anaimbidwa ndi yakuti anatimasula “ankhalwe a ku India opanda chifundo” amene njira yawo yankhondo ndi chiwonongeko ndi mantha. Ameneyo anali Thomas Jefferson! Anali komweko, ankadziwa kuti ndi achingelezi opanda chifundo achingelezi, koma amati ndi amwenye opanda chifundo omwe ankatiukira. Ndiyeno panali mantha a kupanduka kwa akapolo. Chimodzi mwa zifukwa za chikhalidwe cha misala yamfuti ku United States chimabwerera ku mantha a Amwenye ndi akapolo. Pamene mukuphwanya anthu, amatha kuchitapo kanthu, kotero muyenera kudziteteza. Ndipo izo zikudutsa njira yonse mpaka lero. Tengani china chake ngati mliri wa Ebola. Anthu akuchita mantha. Ndikuganiza kuti ndi gawo lalikulu la zomwe zidachitika pazisankho zapakati. Ndi dziko lochita mantha kwambiri, ndipo izi zimapangitsa kuti zikhale zosavuta kusonkhanitsa anthu kuti achite zachiwawa ndi zachiwawa. Zomwe mumachita ndikuwauza kuti tikuopsezedwa ndipo nthawi yomweyo amakankhira pansi pa ambulera.
NH: Mogwirizana ndi nkhani ya mantha mu United States, kodi nchifukwa ninji Akatolika a ku Ireland a anthu ogwira ntchito anayamba kuvota a Republican kumapeto kwa ma 1960 ndi kuchiyambi kwa ma 1970?
NC: Mabasi adasinthadi zinthu ku Boston. Ndipotu, pali maphunziro ena pa izi, kuzungulira dziko. Mutha kuona chifukwa chake. Onani mabasi ku Boston. Linakonzedwa ndi Harvard liberals, wakunja kwatawuni, opita patsogolo. Linapangidwa kuti lithetse tsankho. Koma kodi anachita bwanji zimenezi? Anatumiza ana aku Ireland kuchokera ku South Boston kupita ku Roxbury, ana akuda kuchokera ku Roxbury kupita ku South Boston - ndipo palibe aliyense m'midzi yomwe olemera omasuka amakhala. Ndipo ndithudi izo zinayambitsa mikangano. Mnyamata wina wa ku Ireland yemwe ankagwira ntchito ku kampani ya telefoni yemwe pomalizira pake anali ndi ndalama zokwanira zogulira nyumba yaing'ono ndikupangitsa mwana wake kupita kusukulu ya sekondale m'dera labwino, mwadzidzidzi ana ake anali kutumizidwa ku Roxbury ndipo ana akuda ankabwera. Wakwiya. Kunali kusintha kwakukulu kwa dziko, ndipo panalinso zinthu zina zambiri ngati zimenezo. Ndiko kumene Reagan Democrats amachokera. Moyo wawo unali kuukiridwa. Roe vs. wade linali gawo la izo. Moyo wawo unali kuukiridwa ndi anthu aufulu, choncho anayamba kudana ndi anthu omasuka ndi kuvota motsutsana ndi zofuna zawo. Ndicho chifukwa chake muli ndi anthu ogwira ntchito omwe amavotera kuti adziwononge okha. Ndizodabwitsa. Ndizofanana ndi zomwe zikuchitika ku England. Ndondomeko za UKIP [Chipani cha UK Independence Party] ndi zovulaza kwambiri kwa anthu ogwira ntchito komabe ndi kumene mavoti awo ali, chifukwa anthu amawopa kwambiri iwo kubwera ndikuchotsa chilichonse us. Mantha a ku United States ndi odabwitsa kwambiri pakati pa anthu a ku Ireland, omwe anachitiridwa nkhanza pamene adabwera kuno. Chakumapeto kwa zaka za m'ma 1900 ku Boston, mutha kupeza zizindikiro zomwe zimati, "Palibe Agalu kapena Achi Irish." Pomaliza, Achi Irish adayamba kugwira ntchito ngati anthu ambiri ndipo adakhala otchuka, koma kumbuyo kwawo adawonedwa ngati aku Africa America. Tsopano asintha mokwanira kuti achite mantha iwo. Ndi dziko latsankho modabwitsa. Yang'anani pa kuvota, mayiko ofiira ndi a buluu. Ndi nkhondo yapachiweniweni kwambiri. Confederacy yonse ndi yofiira. Chifukwa chiyani adakhala Republican? Chifukwa cha gulu lomenyera ufulu wachibadwidwe. Chifukwa chake adasintha kuchoka ku Democrat kupita ku Republican.
NH: Kodi pali kugwirizana pakati pa kusankhana mitundu kumeneku ndi magulu okonda dziko lawo amene akuchulukirachulukira ku Ulaya?
NC: Ndizowopsa kwambiri, ndipo zikufalikira ponseponse. France ndi yoyipa. Kum'maŵa kwa Ulaya ndi koipitsitsa. Hungary tsopano ikuyendetsedwa ndi a pafupifupi chipani cha neo-Nazi [Jobbik]. Simunawonepo tsankho ku Europe m'mbuyomu chifukwa linali lofanana. Pamene aliyense ali blonde ndi buluu maso, inu simukuwona kusankhana mitundu. Koma kutangoyamba kumene kusamuka, zinangotuluka modabwitsa kwambiri. Anthu ambiri akuthawa ku Africa, yomwe ndi nkhani yowopsya kwambiri-makamaka chifukwa cha zochita za ku Ulaya kwa zaka mazana ambiri. Choncho akuthawira ku Ulaya. Malo oyamba omwe amapita ndi Italy. Italy yakhala ikupulumutsa anthu, koma adalengeza posachedwa kuti akufuna kuyimitsa, akufuna kuipereka ku European Union. EU idalengeza kwambiri kuti sachita zambiri. England idati sichita chilichonse. Chotero ngati zikwi mazanamazana a anthu afera panyanja, ndilo vuto lawo—kuthaŵa nkhondo za ku Ulaya kwa zaka mazana ambiri. Ife tikuchita chinthu chomwecho. Anthu omwe akuthawa ku Central America-akuthawa chiyani? [Chomsky akulozera pa chojambula cha Oscar Romero] Zinthu ngati zimenezo. Kufupi ndi Boston kuli gulu la Mayan. Lero mkazi uja [Chomsky akulozera ku chithunzi chojambulidwa] amakhala ndi mwana wanga wamkazi. Iye ndi wothawa kwawo wa Mayan. Akuthawa zotsatira za kuphana kwa mafuko kumapiri koyambirira kwa ma 1980 komwe United States idathandizira. Ndipo timawanyamula pamalire ndikuwaponyera mmbuyo. Masiku angapo apitawo panali lipoti la Human Rights Watch lodzudzula United States chifukwa chobwezera othawa kwawo - azimayi ndi ana. Ndi nkhani yowopsya kwenikweni. Ambiri mwa othawa kwawo tsopano akuchokera ku Honduras. Mu 2009, asilikali a ku Honduras anathamangitsa pulezidenti pagulu lankhondo. Adachita zisankho - zidadziwika ndi Obama koma palibe wina aliyense. Kuyambira pamenepo, Honduras yakhala likulu lakupha padziko lapansi; pali nkhanza zoopsa, kupha makanda, kupha akazi kwakwera, ndipo anthu akuthawa mosimidwa. Iwo amabwera kumalire, ndipo tinawaika m’malole ndi kuwatumiza ku Mexico kuti akafe. Ndipo kuno anthu akuwopa anthu olowa m’dzikolo popanda chilolezo, n’zimene tikuchita. Ndizodabwitsa kwambiri.
NH: Nthawi zonse mukafunsidwa, zikuwoneka ngati mukufunsidwa mafunso omwewo mobwerezabwereza. Kodi mumatopa nazo? Nchiyani chimakupangitsani inu kupitiriza?
NC: Kuyang'ana zithunzi monga choncho [Chomsky akulozeranso pa kujambula kwa Romero]. Ndikanakonda nditafunsidwa za izi. Ndimachitadi.
Zoyankhulana izi zasinthidwa kuti zikhale zazitali komanso zomveka bwino. Izi zidachitika pa Novembara 7, 2014.
*Chomsky akunena za zoyesayesa za dipatimenti ya US State, kuyambira koyambirira kwa 1960s, kuti akonzenso mapulogalamu ake othandizira asitikali kuti asathandize asitikali akumayiko aku Latin America kuti adziteteze ku ziwawa zakunja zoletsa "kusokoneza" mkati. cf. umboni wa 1963 wa Mlembi wa Chitetezo Robert S. McNamara pamaso pa Komiti Yachigawo ya House on Appropriations (Kumvera, Kukonzekera Kwantchito Zakunja kwa 1964, Congress ya 88, gawo loyamba [May, 1963], Gawo 2.)
ZNetwork imalandira ndalama kudzera mu kuwolowa manja kwa owerenga ake.
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1 Comment
This is just another marvelous article by Noam Chomsky. Concerning Noam’s point about how the US the murderous repression and genocide in Central America and South America through aiding and abetting these murderous military and civilian fascist regimes, I experienced this reality in Honduras while I was teaching EFL(English as a Foreign Language) from February, 1986 to July, 1986 at a military academy -Nido de Aguilas: Colegio Politechnico – in Tamara, a village that was amid the foothills about forty miles from Tegucigalpa, the capital and that was near a Honduran military base, that was being trained by the US.military and that had a notorious reputation for torturing and murdering dissidents. In addition, the Director of the military Academy, Colonel Juan Angel Arias Rodriguez, who was backed by the CIA, was the leader and head of all the death squads in Honduras and who was responsible for the liquidation of my Honduran girlfriend’s brother.In addition, this military caudillo/strongman provided protection for the drug traffickers in which he received a ten percent commission for the sales of their drugs. Furthermore, the strange unexplained murders, including beheadings, that had been occurring in Tamara apparently were being done by the US backed Contras who were hiding in a secret camp somewhere in the foothills near the military academy. In conclusion, that is the tragic, historic infamous legacy of USbacked repression and murder in Central America and South America.