Pa Januware 8, Rev. Osagyefo Sekou, Nkhani Zosintha' mkonzi wamkulu, adakhala pansi ndi m'modzi mwa anthu anzeru kwambiri padziko lonse lapansi, Prof. Noam Chomsky, muofesi yake ku MIT. Anali ndi zokambirana zambiri komanso zomasuka pazovuta zomwe demokalase yathu ikukumana nayo. Iwo anakamba nkhani zoyambira pa zaumulungu zaufulu ku Latin America, mpaka pa cholowa cha Martin Luther King Jr., mpaka mkangano wa ku Middle East. Ichi ndi gawo la zokambirana zawo zolemera.
Noam Chomski: ... Ndipo mukudziwa chiyani, tsiku la MLK, lomwe likuyenera kulemekeza MLK, ndipo pafupifupi chirichonse chimatha ndi mawu ake odziwika bwino akuti "Ndili ndi maloto" mu 1963. Koma sanayime pamenepo. Anapitiliza kuyesa kulimbana ndi tsankho kumpoto, kuponderezana kwamagulu, nyumba, ndipo amangosweka. M'malo mwake, ndipamene mbiri yake pakati pa omasuka oyera inayamba kutsika. Palibe amene amakamba zimene zinkachitika pamene anaphedwa. Kupatula apo, anali kuthandizira sitiraka ya ogwira ntchito zaukhondo. Chofunika kwambiri, anali paulendo wopita ku Washington kukakonza kampeni ya anthu osauka. Iwo anapita, kukamanga mahema, ndipo apo iye anali, ataphwanyidwa ndi apolisi ndikuthamangitsidwa ku Washington - pansi pa Congress yomasuka kwambiri m'mbiri ya America. Koma izi zachoka m'mbiri, kuphatikizapo kulankhula kwake komaliza "Ndili ndi Maloto". Madzulo omwe adaphedwa adalankhula momveka bwino. Ndipo kumbukirani mtundu wa mafanizo a Mose ndi โmudzawona dziko lolonjezedwa,โ ndi โpamene tidzakafika kumeneko.โ Koma nthawi yonseyi sinali ya mbiri yakale, monganso tsankho la Kumpoto. Tengani, kuti, Boston. Tengani zinthu ngati basi. Ndikutanthauza, mabasi adapangidwa ndi woweruza waufulu dzina lake Robert, trustee waku Harvard - munthu wabwino - koma adazipanga kuti ayambitse zipolowe ku Boston ndikupatula madera akumidzi. Madera akumidzi ndi oyera, Boston ndi wakuda. Koma ana akuda adatumizidwa kumadera aku Ireland komanso mosemphanitsa. Ndipo inu muchita chiyani? Zidzayambitsa zipolowe zamtundu. Ine sindikudziwa ngati iwo sakanatha kuzizindikira izo, kapena ngati iwo anali osuliza, kapena chiyani, koma izo zinachitika mu dziko lonse.
Rev. Osagyefo Sekou: Mtundu wa mgwirizano wa mbiri yozungulira Mfumu wakhala kuti akusintha mozungulira '68 kupita ku ndale yowonjezereka.
NC: Zinali kale kuposa pamenepo.
Os: Nโzoonadi, koma kalelo mu 1949, iye analemba kuti: โMaganizo anga ndi a sosholizimu kuposa akapitalist.โ Izi zikuyembekezeredwa kukhala mwana mu Depression. Ndipo akunena pamenepo, powona mizere iyo inandipangitsa ine motere. Ndipo polemba zake zonse pali kusinthana pakati pa iye ndi Coretta mu 1952. Amamutumizira Edward Bellamy's Looking Backward. Ndipo kotero akukambirana m'makalata awa achikondi kulumikizana kodabwitsa, kosangalatsa pakati pa zamulungu zake - zomwe ndi chiphunzitso chachikhristu chakale komanso chiphunzitso chachipembedzo chotsutsana ndi chikhazikitso cha Yesu - komanso pakati pa ndale zake za demokalase ndi zamulungu zake. . Chifukwa ndikuganiza kuti King akulowa mumtundu wa miyambo yauneneri. M'mbiri, America nthawi zonse imakhala ndi zovuta za demokalase, monga Michael Harrington.
NC: Ndizowonanso ndi John Paul. Ndikutanthauza, zolankhula zake za Tsiku la Chaka Chatsopanoโanali munthu wokonda kusamalaโkoma maadiresi ake a Tsiku la Chaka Chatsopano sananene ku United States chifukwa anali okhwima kwambiri. Iye anali kutsutsa Chikomyunizimu, izo ziri bwino, koma iye anali kudzudzula ukapitalism ndi chuma, izo siziri bwino. Kotero ingoyang'anani zolembazo. Inde, pali zovuta zonse pamenepo. Koma ponena za King, zinayamba kuonekera mu 1965. Zochita zake zapagulu zinakula ku Chicagoโpoyera polankhula motsutsana ndi mapulogalamu a mโtauni ku Chicago. Ndipamene adataya chiyanjo ndi odzipereka aku Northern. Zinakhala zankhani zamagulu komanso kusankhana mitundu kumpoto.
Os: Kodi mukuganiza bwanji pa nthawi yachiwiri ya Obama?
NC: Zidzakhala zofanana ndi zoyambazo. Sindinakhalepo ndi chidaliro chilichonse mwa iye, sindinawone chifukwa chilichonse chochitira. Kwenikweni ndidawerengapo za iye zisanachitike ma primaries a 2008, ndikungogwiritsa ntchito tsamba lake. Ndipo ndimaganiza kuti ndi mwayi chabe. Ndidayenera kulemba za gawo la Middle East, ndiye nkhani yake, ndipo ndimafuna kuwona zomwe anganene. Ndinaganiza kuti zinali zododometsa kwambiri. Ali ndi zambiri za Middle East patsamba lake - adadzitsatsa yekha pazisankho. Ndipo ndithudi, zonse ziri zodzaza ndi chikondi kwa Israeli ndi zina zotero, ndipo mwinamwake chiganizo chimodzi kapena ziwiri pa Palestina, kunena chinachake chonga, "Palestine, mwinamwake iwo ndi anthu" kapena chinachake chonga icho. Nkhondo itangotha โโkumene ku Lebanoni. Nkhani yoopsa. Ndipo amalengeza monyadira kuti pamene anali Senator, adathandizira chigamulo pa nthawi ya nkhondo, akupempha akuluakulu kuti asachite chilichonse cholepheretsa kuwukira kwa Israeli ndikulanga aliyense ngati Syria kapena Iran yemwe akuthandiza kukana kuukira kwa Israeli. Ndi m'katikati mwa nkhanza zazikulu.
Os: Ndidaphunzitsa ku Lebanon mu 2009 mnyumba ya khofi, yomwe idagwira ntchito ngati malo othandizira pankhondo ndi Israel mu 2006.
NC: Ndiye munali ku Beirut?
Os: Inde, ku Beirut. Ndipo ndizamphamvu kwambiri kuti ndimvetsetse - zomwe zakhala zosangalatsa kwa ine, komanso momwe ndakhala ndikusunthira padziko lonse lapansi, ndi momwe "anthu adziko lachitatu" omwe akhala akumenyera ufulu amatumizira chilankhulocho ndipo mawu omenyera ufulu waku Africa America.
NC: Ndichoncho chifukwa chiyani?
Os: Kulikonse kumene ndakhalaโndinali ku Mexico City, ndi anthu ena aku Latin America
Ndinaphimba zipolowe za ku London, ndipo ndinali ku Paris panthawi ya zipolowe za 2005. Ndipo pakati pa anthu aku Palestine, amati ndife "okonda mchenga." Tikufuna kuti mumvetse kuti ndife ndani padziko lapansi. Ndipo kotero zakhala zosangalatsa kwambiri kuti mu nthumwi zathu, tidaimba nyimbo zambiri zaufulu, ndipo ambiri mwa omenyera ufuluwa omwe samalankhula Chingerezi kapena osatha kumvetsetsa bwino zomwe zikuchitika - amalira. Zakhala zosangalatsa kwambiri kwa ine zomwe zimachitika powonekera ngati si zilankhulo kwa anthu malinga ndi momwe amawerengera kumenyera ufuluwu komanso kulimbana komwe anthuwa amawatcha African ku America.
NC: Koma anaiwerenga momvera chisoni.
Os: Inde, palibe funso. Ndipo izo zinali chinthu chomwecho pamene ine ndinali mu Palestina. Anthu a ku America a ku America pa nthumwi-makamaka, pali mayi wina, Carolyn McKinstry, yemwe anali bwenzi la atsikana anayi aang'ono omwe anaphedwa mu tchalitchi cha Birmingham kuphulitsa mabomba mu 1963-iye ndi ena, pamene tikuyenda, timayenda. O, timadziwa izi. Monga panali chinachake visceral pa zinachitikira. Monga tikudziwira za apolisi ndi matupi ndi kulanga kwa chidziwitso. Moyo uwu timawudziwa. Tinkapita ku West Jerusalem, kenako kupita ku East Jerusalem. Monga ife tikupita ku Harlem, ndiyeno inu nkubwera pansi ku West Side. Ndipo ife timapita, โO, ife tikudziwa izi.โ Ndine waku Southern, ndine wochokera ku Arkansas, kotero timalankhula za wheelhouse. Ma wheelhouse amakhudzana ndi kutchula ziwawa zopanda pake, kuponderezana ndi malamulo, malingaliro osagwirizana ndi amuna kapena akazi okhaokha. Hegemony ikuwoneka ngati yocheperako m'malingaliro ake. Ndicho chifukwa chake amapita pambuyo pa ojambula ndi aluntha poyamba. Kudutsa gululo, kaya ndi hegemony ya mapiko amanzere, kuyang'ana oipitsitsa omwe ali mu gulu la Chikomyunizimu, kapena hegemony ya kumanja-Fascism kapena George Herbert Walker akutsatira Robert Mapplethorpe. Ndikufuna kumva zambiri kuchokera kwa inu pa izi: ndi zida ziti za hegemony zomwe zimadula malo ndi nthawi? Monga, chifukwa zikuwoneka kuti ndizochepa. Ine ndikutanthauza, iwo ali ndi mfuti, ndi zambiri za izo.
NC: Pali mphamvu, koma palinso kunyoza winayo. Ndinakanthidwansoโndinali ku Gaza posachedwapa, koma pafupifupi kulikonse, chinthu chimene anthu amalankhula ndicho ulemuโkuchotsa ulemu wathu. Osati kungowononga izi kapena izo, koma ndikufuna kukhala moyo wolemekezeka. Ndipo inu mukumva izo padziko lonse lapansi. Ndikutanthauza, ndizo zomwe zinachitika mu Arab Spring. Kuti ndibwererenso kwa woyambaโmunthu amene anadziphaโzimene ananena kuti, mudzandilanda ntchito, mukuchotsa ulemu wanga monga munthu. Ndipo lingaliro limenelo la ulemu wa munthu ndi lofunika kwambiri kwa oponderezedwa, ndipo opondereza akulimvetsa. Zomwe zimatchedwa kuzunza nthawi zambiri zimakhala zochititsa manyazi. Chinthucho chinapangidwa kuti chinyozedwe. Kapena pamene, titi, asilikali a Israeli apita kumudzi, amangofuna kunyoza anthu, kuwachititsa manyazi. Apangitseni kudzimva kukhala opanda pakeโonetsetsani kuti sakukweza mitu yawo, kuti agwiritse ntchito mawuwo. Ine ndikukumbukira Thomas Friedman anali pa chiwonetsero cha Charlie Rose zaka zingapo zapitazo ndipo iye anati, "Chabwino, ku Baghdad ndi Basra, iwo amayenera kugwetsa zitseko ndi kulowa mkati ndikuwuza anthu omwe muyenera kumvetsetsa kuti sitikufuna kukhala. kukhumudwa.โ Kumeneko kunali kuwachititsa manyazi. Kupatula pa zopusa, ndizo zomwe anyamatawa amachita ndi anthu omwe si a Lebanon. Ndi mabulaketi akale omwewo. Mukungofuna kuwachititsa manyazi. Ndi zomwe tiyenera kuchita, ndiyo ntchito yathu. Ndiye mwina mumvetsetsa kuti muyenera kutisiya tokha. Ndinali ku Israel mu 1988 panthawi ya intifada yoyamba, pamene Friedman anali mtolankhani wa New York Times, ndipo adalandira Mphotho ya Pulitzer chifukwa cha lipoti lake ku Israel. Ndinali kuwerenga za izo mu zosindikizira za Chihebri, ndipo iwo sakanatha kuzipirira ndipo iwo anali kumunyoza iye. Funso lina limene anafunsidwa linali lakuti, โKodi mukuganiza kuti anthu a ku West Bank tiyenera kuwachitira chiyani?โ Ndipo amalankhula ngati katswiri wamkulu uyu-amadziwa chilichonse chokhudza Middle East-chabwino mukufuna kuchita momwemonso mukulamulira Kumwera kwa Lebanon. Southern Lebanon idayendetsedwa ndi gulu lankhondo la zigawenga, likuchita ziwopsezo zowononga anthu amderalo, ndi asitikali aku Israeli akuwonetsetsa kuti zonse zikuyenda bwino. Achitireni zimenezo. Koma kenako anati, koma ukuyenera kumupatsa Ahmed mpando m'basi chifukwa ndiye achepetsa zofuna zake. Tsopano zili ngati munthu wina waku Southern kusankhana mitundu: "Tawonani, musamumenye kwambiri, patsani Sambo mpando m'basi, ndiye mwina adzatseka." Izi ndi za Friedman. Kusankhana mitundu ndi kwakukulu kwambiri komanso kuzindikiraโmtundu wa kuzindikira kozama kumene muyenera kuchititsa manyazi. Sikuti kupha kapena kuzunza. Ndiko kuchititsa manyazi. Chotero amadziona kukhala opanda ulemu. Ndipo onse oponderezedwa azindikira, Ndipo opondereza azindikira. Ndizokhazikika.
Os: Kotero iwo sangakhoze kunena, "Ine ndine mwamuna."
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