In this wide-ranging conversation, political economist Patrick Bond joins me from Johannesburg to trace the lessons of South Africa’s struggles — from the fight against apartheid and Big Pharma to today’s battles over BRICS, Palestine, climate, and global capital. We dig into the meaning of “sub-imperialism,” the hypocrisies of governments that talk left but walk right, and the urgent question of how to end genocide and ecological collapse in real time. What does internationalism look like after the failure of unipolar power? And can “power to the people” still break the system’s grip?

0:00 – Coming Soon / Intro

5:23 – From Wharton to Mandela’s Office

14:36 – Where are we within capitalism and BRICS?

22:33 – BRICS: Anti-Empire or Just Sub-Empire?

31:06 – Slaying the Neoliberal Dragon

35:14 My Enemy’s Enemy?

39:23 Botha and the Rubicon

43:25 Imperialism and Zionism and the Revolutionary Violence Moment

52:50 The Hypocrisy of BRICS and Israel

57:53 – “Hague-Schmague”: When International Law Collapses

1:05:31 – Gaza and why won’t anyone do anything?

1:15:17 – Western Liberals and “Zionism”?

1:24:32 – After Thoughts and Next Guest

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