U-GREG WILPERT: I-Real News Network, futhi ngingu-Greg Wilpert.
UMengameli waseFrance u-Emmanuel Macron wenze isivumelwano esikhulu sombhikisho kuleli sonto ngesikhathi enquma ukuhlehlisa ukunyuswa kwentela kaphethiloli futhi wathembisa ukumisa amanani kagesi. UMacron wathatha isikhathi ukwenza isinqumo, futhi ngaphambi nje kwesimemezelo wazama ukuzithethelela ngokungakuhoxisi ukunyuswa kwentela.
EMMANUEL MACRON: Awukwazi ukuba ngowemvelo ngoMsombuluko futhi uphikisana nentengo kaphethiloli ngoLwesibili. Awukwazi ukunquma ngentela ye-carbon eminyakeni embalwa edlule bese ugxeka izindleko zikaphethiloli namuhla. Manje, ngiyanikhumbuza ukuthi le ntela yavotelwa ngo-2009, 2014, 2015, yenze abantu bezombusazwe bemibono eyahlukene kuyo.
U-GREG WILPERT: Nokho, uMacron kudingeke ukuthi ahlehle emuva kokuthi iFrance ingene emasontweni amathathu emibhikisho yalokho osekwaziwa ngokuthi yinhlangano yama-yellow vests, okususelwa kubabhikishi abebegqoke amavesti aphuzi ezimo eziphuthumayo okufanele zonke izimoto zaseFrance zibe nawo. Ngempelasonto edlule umbhikisho uphenduke waba nodlame ikakhulukazi, lapho ababhikishi bexabana namaphoyisa baphinde babangela umonakalo ongaphezu kuka-$4 million, bacekela phansi izitolo nezimoto. Babalelwa ku-100 ababhikishi namaphoyisa okuthiwa balimele, kwaboshwa amakhulu ambalwa. Kunokungqubuzana okuningi nokho eFrance mayelana nokuthi ngabe imele bani futhi imele ini le vest eliphuzi.
Ongihlanganisayo ukusiza ukwenza umqondo walokho okwenzeka eFrance nguJean Bricmont. UJean uyisazi sesayensi yezibalo nezibalo eNyuvesi yaseLouvain, futhi ungumbhali wezincwadi ezimbalwa, okuhlanganisa I-Humanitarian Imperialism: Ukusebenzisa Amalungelo Abantu Ukuthengisa Impi. Uzinze eBrussels, kodwa ujoyina nathi manje esuka eParis, lapho abone khona imibhikisho eduze. Siyabonga ngokuba lapha, John.
U-JEAN BRICMONT: Ngiyabonga ngokuba nami.
U-GREG WILPERT: Ngakho-ke ebusweni kubonakala sengathi isikhalazo esikhulu sama-gilets jaunes, noma ama-yellow vests, ukuthi ukunyuka kwentela kaphethiloli kuningi kakhulu, okuqondakalayo. Ngisho, uma uyibeka ngokwemibandela izethameli zase-US ezingayiqonda, intengo kaphethiloli ikhuphuke cishe ngamasenti angama-25 ilitha ngalinye, yaya cishe ku-$6 ilitha ngalinye. Lokho kucishe kuphindwe kathathu kunezindleko zegesi lapha e-United States. Ungathini mayelana nokuthi le mibhikisho imayelana nani njengamanje?
U-JEAN BRICMONT: Hhayi-ke, ngicabanga ukuthi lena bekuyi-trigger mechanism. Uyazi, lokhu kukhuphuka kwentela. Inkinga ukuthi abantu basuthi ngempela. Futhi bengigxeka izinqubomgomo ze-neoliberal selokhu zaqala, ngo-Mitterand ngisho no-Giscard. Kodwa bengingalindele izinga losizi engiluzwa ebufakazini babantu bethi abakwazi ukuziphilisa, abanakudla uma sekudlule umhla zingama-20 noma zingama-25 enyangeni. Abantu abachaza isimo esibhedlela, ebesingesinye sezinhlelo zezokwelapha ezihamba phambili emhlabeni, simangalisa kakhulu. Imigqa yokulinda. Uyazi, ngisho, zonke lezi zinto, ngisho, akukholakali ukuthi iFrance ibonakala ibhujiswa kangakanani.
Futhi ngicabanga ukuthi inkinga akuyona iMacron. UMacron, vele, ubekhuluma obala njengoba abantu abaphezulu bekhuluma ngasese, ngokukhombisa ukwedelela abantu. Futhi uyazi, lokho, vele, kwamenza wangathandwa. Kodwa ngicabanga ukuthi inkinga inkulu, ijule kakhulu, futhi kufanele, ngicabanga, ngalokho esikubiza ngokuthi ukuhwebelana kwembulunga yonke. Ngisho, kuyinto efanayo nase-United States. Ngisho ukuthi, wenza i-delocalise, ngokuqondile noma ngokungaqondile. Isibonelo, mhlawumbe uyazi–angazi noma uyazazi yini lezo zitolo, i-Ikea. Kuyisitolo esidumile saseSweden sefenisha nezinto ezinjalo. Ngisho, yonke into ekhona isiSwidi, kodwa yenza ukukholwa. Yonke into abayithengisayo yenziwa eShayina, noma kwenye indawo enjalo. Ezinye izindawo ezifana nalezo lapho amaholo ephansi. Ngakho-ke empeleni uyabona ukuthi kunenkinga yangempela yokususwa kwezindawo. Futhi-ke abantu abanayo, uyazi, abanayo imisebenzi. Bese kuthi imisebenzi yabo yomgunyathi, imisebenzi ye-bureaucratic idalwe ngokuzenzela. Bese bengasenazo izidingo zomphakathi abebenazo ikakhulukazi ezindaweni zasemakhaya. Futhi badinga imoto yabo ukuze isebenze, nokunye.
Futhi, njengabakaki, ungase uthi, ungase uqaphele ukuthi i-France ingenye yezwe elincane kakhulu elikhiqiza i-CO2 ngenxa yamandla enuzi abathola kuwo ugesi wabo. Kuncane kakhulu kuneJalimane, ngokwesibonelo. Futhi enye into ukuthi lokho okubizwa nokunwebeka kwentengo. Ngakho-ke uma ukhuphula intengo kufanele ubone ukuthi izoba nomthelela ongakanani ekusetshenzisweni. Mhlawumbe hhayi kakhulu. Futhi uma ukhuluma ngamaphesenti ambalwa okukhishwa kwe-CO2 emhlabeni wonke, futhi amanye amazwe angawehlisi, umphumela wamazinga okushisa azoba yinto engasho lutho nhlobo. Ngisho ukuthi, kulula ukwenza izibalo, ngisho nokusebenzisa izibalo ze-IPCC. Ngakho-ke, uyazi, lesi silinganiso sisetshenziselwa ukugcwalisa okushodayo. Inkinga ngempela kushoda.
Ukushoda, uyabona, kuwukushoda okukhulu. Futhi kunjalo kuwo wonke amazwe aseYurophu, ngisho ne-United States. Ngicabanga ukuthi kuhlobene nokuntuleka kokukhiqiza, iqiniso lokuthi awukhiqizi lokho okudlayo. Uyithola phesheya. Futhi-ke kufanele udale imisebenzi yokwenziwa, futhi kufanele uxhase zonke izinhlobo zabantu abangenayo imisebenzi yangempela ekhiqizayo, nokunye. Futhi yilokho okwakha ukushoda. Kepha inkinga inkulu kakhulu kuneMacron.
U-GREG WILPERT: Manje, kunokuqagela okuningi kokuthi kunezici ezikude kakhulu ngemuva kwemibhikisho. Omunye wababizile kubukeka sengathi kwakunguFrank Buhler, owake waba kwiNational Front, kodwa waxoshwa ngenxa yokucwasa ngokwedlulele. Kodwa ngakolunye uhlangothi, muva nje umuntu ungabona nabalandeli benxele beseka imibhikisho. Okokuqala nje, imibhikisho yaba khona kanjani? Okwesibili, njengoba ukwazi ukubona, ubani ozihlelayo?
U-JEAN BRICMONT: Hhayi-ke, ngikholwa kakhulu ukuthi kuyazenzekela. Uyabona, angazi ukuthi kwakuhlelwe ngubani. Bekubonakala sengathi kukhona zonke izinhlobo zabantu abebekwenza lokho nge-inthanethi, nokunye. Ngisho ukuthi uma kuke kwaba nenguquko yemibala kwenye indawo, abantu abakholwa ukuthi bahlelekile. Ngisho, ngicabanga ukuthi kuyazenzekela.
Kukhona ibhizinisi mayelana kwesokudla kude. Kuyathakazelisa kakhulu ukubona ukuthi lena ngenye yezindawo okukhulunywa ngazo abezindaba kanye nohulumeni. Bazingela izinkulumo ezicwasa ngokwebala ndawana thize, noma izinkulumo ezimelene namaSemite, ezingcono nakakhulu. Kodwa uyazi, ngingagqoka ivesti ephuzi, ngingene emgwaqweni, futhi ngimemeze ngokuthi heil Hitler, Allahu Akbar, noma iPalestine ekhululekile, into enjalo, futhi lokho kuzokwenza abezindaba bahlanye ngokuphelele. Kodwa ngisho, kungukunyakaza okungahlelekile ngokuphelele. Akukho-ke uyazi, abawuphathi umnyakazo wabo, abakwazi ukuxosha abantu kulo mbutho. Noma ubani angafaka ivesti eliphuzi. Impela kube khona abantu abakude kwesokudla lapho.
Kodwa angicabangi ukuthi akuhlangene nelungelo elikude njengoba silazi kwamanye amazwe. Eqinisweni, kufanele kunikezwe amaFulentshi ukuthi le nhlangano ikakhulukazi isiFulentshi neRepublican. kulungile? Kodwa-ke uma uqala ukucabanga ukuthi yonke into eyisiFulentshi ngomqondo wokushisekela izwe—bacula iMarseillaise, bazulisa ifulege lesiFulentshi, nokunye–uma ukufanisa kwesokudla, khona-ke i-Resistance yayikude kakhulu. kwesokudla, iNguquko YaseFrance yayingakwesokudla kakhulu, nanoma iyiphi enye inhlangano. Bese kuthi-ke vele sizongena enkingeni yangempela, futhi isinxele besilokhu sikwenza lokho iminyaka, ukuhlobanisa zonke izinhlobo zokushisekela izwe kwesokudla kude. Futhi leso ngesinye sezizathu zokuthi kungani kwesokunxele singayethuli lowo mnyakazo. Kukhona abantu kwesokunxele ngaleso sikhathi, futhi kukhona abantu kwesokunxele abazama ukujoyina inhlangano.
Kodwa inkinga wukuthi inxele bekufanele ngabe selihole le nhlangano iminyaka, uyabona kodwa ibingakwenzi lokho. Futhi ibingakwenzi lokho ngezizathu ezimbili eziyinhloko. Omunye ukwamukelwa kwephupho laseYurophu. Bonke basho kahle, sizokwakha i-Europe yezenhlalo, nokunye. akunakwenzeka. kulungile? Akunakwenzeka. Awukwazi ukushintsha izivumelwano. Izivumelwano zenziwe ngesisekelo [esingazwakali]. Futhi baye badala i-euro, edala ukungalingani phakathi kwezomnotho ngaphakathi kwe-euroone, ngoba akukho ukudluliswa kwengcebo phakathi kwamazwe acebile nampofu. Futhi akunakwenzeka ukuba nohlobo lwemali olufanayo phakathi kwamazwe abekade enokuguquguquka okukhulu phakathi kwezimali zawo. Ngenkathi u-de Gaulle ethula i-New Franc, yayinenani elifanayo ne-Deutsche mark. Futhi lapho i-euro yethulwa, yayingama-franc amathathu e-Deutsche Mark. Ngakho ubona into efanayo noLira e-Italy, njalonjalo.
Ngakho-ke uma unalokhu kuguquguquka, khona-ke ngokuzumayo uthi wonke lawa mazwe anenani elifanayo. Kodwa ungakwenza kanjani lokho? Kungumnotho wemakethe yamahhala. Asizange siye emnothweni owawuhleliwe, ngokwazi kwami. Futhi-ke ukunqanda kanjani lokhu kuguquguquka? Uvimbela lokhu kuguquguquka ngezinyathelo ezilula. Yilokho abebekwenza.
U-GREG WILPERT: Ngifuna ukubuyela embuzweni wesici se-ecology, okhulume ngaso ekuqaleni. Njengoba sibonile kusiqeshana, uMacron ubevikela ukunyuswa kwentela njengento edingekayo ukuthuthukisa umnotho oluhlaza eFrance. Manje, ingabe lesi sikhalo ku-ecology sithinta abantu baseFrance nhlobo?
U-JEAN BRICMONT: Angicabangi kanjalo. Hhayi kakhulu, cha. Angicabangi, ngoba abantu, njengoba besho, sikhathazekile ngokuphela kwenyanga, hhayi ukuphela komhlaba. Bakhathazekile–ngiqonde ukuthi kuyamangalisa ngempela. Ngisho ukuthi, awukwazi ukwenza—ngiqonde ukuthi, sengikushilo lokho iminyaka eminingi. Ngeke ube nakho—ngiqonde ukuthi, ungaba nalezi, uyazi, izindlela zokuzibulala, njengoba sikubiza kanjalo. Ngisho izindlela [ezingezwakali] noma zemvelo. Abantu abanelisekile ezingeni lenhlalo-mnotho. Kufanele unakekele lokho kuqala. Kodwa ukuthatha lokho, ukunakekela lokho kuqala akusho ukuphonsa imali ezinkingeni, okungaphezu kwalokho okwenziwa kwesokunxele. Abakwesobunxele bahlale bethi, awu, kufanele, uyazi, kufanele uxhase lokhu, uxhase lokho; kufanele usize lokhu futhi umele lokho. Cha, kufanele ulondoloze isisekelo sezimboni.
Futhi yilokho akwenza u-de Gaulle ngenkathi ubuya ngo-'58, ngemva kobunye ubuhlanya-ngakho kwase kuba khona i-Fourth Republic. Futhi kubonakala kimi ukuthi siphila into efana nokuphela kweRiphabhulikhi yesine ngaphandle kwe-de Gaulle elinde emaphikweni. Kodwa u-de Gaulle, yiqiniso, lokho akwenza ubolekwa imali enkulu kubantu, hhayi ebhange, wabe eseyisebenzisa ukuze akhe wonke umnotho wesimanje waseFrance; okungukuthi i-aeronautics. Uyazi, isikhala, ujantshi wesitimela onesivinini esikhulu, [okungazwakalayo], nokunye. Akukho okuqhathaniseka manje, futhi akekho onomqondo wokuthi yini okufanele ayenze.
Ngakho-ke sisenkingeni ejulile. Ngoba vele, ngicabanga, ekugcineni uhulumeni uzolawula amavesti aphuzi. Ngisho ukuthi okuwukuphela kwendlela kungaba uguquko, kodwa ngeke kube khona uguquko. Kuzodingeka ukuthi amaphoyisa namasosha ajikele uhulumeni. Amaphoyisa acikekile impela, kodwa asaqeqeshekile ngokwanele ukuba abeke intando yawo, niyazi, yokuchema nohulumeni. Futhi uma izinto zingangeni ku-revolution, ekugcineni, vele, izophela, lokhu kunyakaza, okwesikhashana. Kodwa ukukhungatheka kukhulu.
Futhi nginovalo, vele, ukuthi ekugcineni kuzoba ne-French Trump. Ngingakunikeza negama engicabanga ukuthi kuzoba nguTrump waseFrance, uDupont-Aignon. Kodwa lokho kungukucabangela nje. Kodwa kuzoba khona, uyazi, ngoba intukuthelo inkulu, futhi akukho, asikho isisombululo sangempela. Ngisho ukuthi, angicabangi ukuthi iTrump yaseFrance ingaba yisixazululo. Kodwa kungase kubonakale kunjalo.
U-GREG WILPERT: KULUNGILE. Futhi kuzofanele sikushiye lapho okwamanje, kodwa mhlawumbe sizobuyela kuwe uma sesibonile ukuthi isimo siqala kanjani. Bengikhuluma noJean Bricmont, uprofesa eNyuvesi yaseLouvain, esijoyine sivela eParis. Siyabonga ngokusijoyina namuhla.
U-JEAN BRICMONT: Ngibona kakhulu. Ngiyabonga.
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