NERMEEN SHAIKH: We turn now to Nicaragua, where at least five people were killed over the weekend amid escalating anti-government protests that have engulfed the country since mid-April. More than 110 people have been killed since widespread demonstrations to oust Nicaraguan President Daniel Ortega began in mid-April, when his government announced plans to overhaul and slash social security. Amnesty International has accused the Nicaraguan government of using, quote, “pro-government armed groups to carry out attacks, incite violence, increase their capacity for repression and operate outside the law.”

AMY GOODMAN: But supporters of President Ortega have blamed the opposition for much of the violence. Foreign Minister Denis Moncada has accused the opposition of pushing for a soft coup. Thousands have been injured, hundreds have been arrested in the demonstrations, including a Mother’s Day march where government forces opened fire on demonstrators led by the mothers of the victims last week. This is Nicaraguan Center for Human Rights President Vilma Nuñez, speaking to the Organization of American States on Monday.

VILMA NUÑEZ DE ESCORCIA: [translated] Above all, we have to highlight the brutal crackdown on the peaceful protest by the mothers, whose loved ones were killed in April, that took place on the 30th of May, when Nicaragua celebrates Mother’s Day. This violence greatly exceeds the violation of the right to life of more than 110 people and hundreds of wounded, detained and tortured people. … Only last night, seven people were killed—among them, a 15-year-old kid.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: The government has denied responsibility for the scourge of killings in Nicaragua since mid-April. The protests, and the government’s bloody repression, marked the biggest crisis since Ortega was elected 11 years ago. Ortega has served as president of Nicaragua since 2007. In the late 1970s, as the leader of the Sandinista National Liberation Front, he helped overthrow the U.S.-backed Nicaraguan dictator Anastasio Somoza. Ortega then led Nicaragua from 1979 to 1990, before being elected again in 2007. But the new protests have pitted Ortega against some of his former Sandinista allies.

AMY GOODMAN: And that’s who we’re going to turn to now. For more, we’re joined by three people.

From Abuja, Nigeria, we’re joined by Alejandro Bendaña. He is the founder of the Center for International Studies in Managua, Nicaragua. He served as the Nicaraguan ambassador to the United Nations, as well as secretary general of the Nicaraguan Foreign Ministry during the Sandinista government in Nicaragua from 1979 to ’90.

In Managua, we’re joined by Mónica López Baltodano. She is a human rights activist who’s on the front lines of protests in Nicaragua and the author of a book about the Nicaraguan Canal.

And in New York, we’re joined by Stephen Hellinger, president Development GAP, The Development Group for Alternative Policies, which has worked around the world with local organizations since 1976 to promote economic justice through changes in prevailing international economic programs and policies. He has lived and worked extensively in Nicaragua.

We welcome you all to Democracy Now! Let’s begin with Mónica López Baltodano. You’re on the ground in Managua. Explain what’s happening.

MÓNICA LÓPEZ BALTODANO: Well, thank you very much for the opportunity.

What we have been seeing for the past 45 days is the rise-up of a very strong popular rebellion against the violence of Daniel Ortega’s government. The rebellion has been led by youth, mostly kids in the—youth in the universities, but also it’s now become a rebellion of all Nicaraguan population. We have seen massive protests on the streets and also important actions of protest that are happening—for instance, more than 70 percent of the roads in Nicaragua are blocked by population—that is requesting two basic things: justice for the more than 127 people that have been murdered by Ortega’s regime so far, and more than 1,000 people injured, and also the decision of Nicaraguan population that Ortega and his wife leaves power. And the protests are getting higher and bigger every day. Today, Managua is blocked all over the main streets, because people are not being represented by the negotiation process. The government is trying to move forward without accomplishing what people is asking, is that they leave power as soon as possible.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Alejandro Bendaña, I wanted to ask you—you served in the Sandinista government. Can you explain what’s happened in Nicaragua under Daniel Ortega? What has changed since you occupied the senior government positions in the Sandinista government?

ALEJANDRO BENDAÑA: Well, thank you, and good morning.

One has to remember key historical facts. The Sandinista revolution began in 1979 and ended in 1990 with the electoral defeat of Daniel Ortega. But this has not spelled the end of Ortega, because for 17 years he worked tenaciously to get back into power. But to do this, he got rid of his potential competitors and many old Sandinista backers. He embraced corporate capital in Nicaragua. He adopted the most retrograded positions of the church and entered into an alliance, and reached an understanding with the U.S., so that he was able to barely win the presidency in 2007.

But by that time, he himself is no longer a Sandinista. Yes, the trappings, the colors are still there, but his entire government has been, in essence, neoliberal. Then it becomes authoritarian, repressive. Yet it continued to maintain a leftist rhetoric, chiefly for the benefit of getting Venezuelan cooperation, money. But that, too, came to an end, not only the money, and also Ortega’s backing for the Maduro government has also ended, as seen in recent votes in the OAS, where he refused to—the present government refused to back—or, vote against a resolution that wanted Venezuela kicked out of the OAS.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: And, Alejandro, can you explain—you just said that Ortega came to an understanding with the U.S. What do you mean by that?

ALEJANDRO BENDAÑA: OK, there’s two aspects to that. First is the historical understanding. Ortega—the military-to-military relations under the Ortega government have always been very—very, very warm, anti-drug, anti-immigration. What Ortega tells the United States is, “I’m going to keep the Nicaraguans from flowing up northward to your borders, but—and I’m going to give you stability for capital. But I want a little leeway with foreign policy and rhetoric.” Now, this understanding became strained.

But what we now have, in the last 10 days, is a new—and we need to denounce this clearly—a negotiation that is taking place in Washington between Ortega and the United States government, that is being mediated by the Organization of American States Secretary General Luis Almagro, to try to ease Ortega out of office. Now, that would be OK if he left tomorrow. But the problem is that negotiation means he wants to go through constitutional changes, electoral changes and an eventual election. And we’d be talking about a year, year and a half. So, what we’re—and that’s too long, when two or three or four people are getting killed and gunned down every day. In addition to that, those are negotiations that, secondly, should be taking place in Washington, and, third, cannot signify impunity for Ortega, which was the—which is the first thing he’s putting on the table. So, he has to go. And then we can talk about a provisional arrangement for a transition government. But this negotiations means more death and destruction.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about the issue of social security, the—what has prompted these protests, Ambassador Bendaña? Also, I mean, you were a very well-known Sandinista. What this means to you to be speaking out now, in 2018, against your former longtime ally, Daniel Ortega?

ALEJANDRO BENDAÑA: Oh, yes, I was embarrassingly close to Daniel Ortega, but I broke with him in 1998—that’s 20 years ago—as have a good many people. Many of us were already there. We consider ourselves Sandinistas and believe that Ortega and his cohorts betrayed the Nicaraguan revolution. So, what we’re trying to—we are part of this broad movement that wants him out, but we do not renounce our ideals. We do not renounce Sandino. We do not renounce our identity. But he has to go, if there is any prospect of Nicaragua re-embarking on a path toward, first, reform and, eventually, more structural, institutional change. He is now the principal obstacle, as seen from a left perspective. Unfortunately, that’s not seen the same way by people on the left that are ignorant of the reality.

The social security issue was simply the straw that broke the camel’s back. Before that, there had been the destruction of a biological reserve. The students—it must be said, the students went out into the streets. And Ortega, instead of usually repressing by police methods, did something that was fatal. He opened—ordered the police to open fire on the students. And from that day forward, his alliances began to crack. And Nicaraguans, many of us, were shocked by what happened—

AMY GOODMAN: Well, speaking of—

ALEJANDRO BENDAÑA: —because it was a disboarding of people onto the streets, and it hasn’t stopped.

AMY GOODMAN: Speaking of students shot, I want to turn to the story of 22 year-old Moroni López, who was killed by police during a nonviolent protest in Managua in April, just weeks ago. Moroni was linking arms with other demonstrators to form a human chain, when he was shot and killed by the police. A series of videos captured the final moments of his life. Moroni joined the protests after watching video of police hurting elderly protesters. So, this week, I got in touch with Moroni López’s mother, Alba García. She told me about her son’s death.

ALBA GARCÍA: [translated] I asked him, “What are you doing there?” And he told me, “Mom, I’m here helping.” I told him, “Son, come back here.” And he told me, “No, I can’t leave, because we’re surrounded by police. The police have surrounded us in the cathedral.” And I told him, “Please, be careful. Be very careful,” because I had a premonition. And I couldn’t finish talking to him, because there was a big explosion. I don’t know if they were shots or what, but we got cut off. Then I couldn’t get in touch anymore. A half-hour later, I got a phone call telling me, “Your son is wounded.” And I asked them, “Are you sure he’s only wounded?” And they said, “Yes, he’s wounded.” Ten minutes later, I got another phone call, because he died at 3 p.m.

AMY GOODMAN: In these protests of the last few months, the Nicaraguan military and paramilitary forces have killed more than 100 people. The government says they’re not using live ammunition.

ALBA GARCÍA: [translated] I would ask Daniel then, “How is it that my son is dead? How is it that the sons of other moms are dead? How did those two bullets come through his chest? How did those three shots enter the bodies of the other two kids?” Because there were three shots that were right on target—two in the chest and one in the neck, one in the head. They’re not going to do that with handmade mortars. That’s false. How is it that more kids are dying? And how is it that the people who disappear return dead with signs of being tortured—without eyes, without teeth, with their bones broken? Who is doing that, then? I would like Nicaragua, the country that is crying, to explain to me why this is happening. Explain to me: How is it possible that my son left alive, and now he’s dead?

AMY GOODMAN: That’s Alba García—we reached her at her home in Ciudad Sandino—speaking about the death of her son, 22-year-old English student Moroni López, in Managua. She had told him, “Don’t go out.” But when he saw the older people who were protesting, he said he wanted to go out and be with them. Steve Hellinger, you’re president of The Development GAP. You’ve lived and worked in Nicaragua for a long time in solidarity with the Sandinistas. Your thoughts as you listen to what is taking place and you follow it?

STEPHEN HELLINGER: Well, it’s very sad. But it’s probably inevitable. Most everybody was really shocked that the explosion of protest took place in April, because the conditions were there, but it was the repression that brought everybody out into the street. And now I cannot overstate just how chaotic the situation is in Nicaragua. The police have withdrawn. Ortega said he would withdraw the police because there were so many protests against the police violence. But they are, behind the scenes, operating to support the paramilitary. And those people are—and they’re—people say the police are actually the ones who are acting as snipers. They’re driving the trucks that are taking the paramilitaries around the country. The paramilitaries are being armed by the police, undoubtedly. That’s the general belief. I’ve been in touch with people all over the country, and the story is the same every place. It’s chaos, lawlessness. I think that the government is trying to create a situation where people want law and order. And people don’t go outside after dark. Taxis don’t run. It needs immediate resolution.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, McClatchy is reporting a number of Nicaraguan student activists are in Washington, D.C., seeking support from the Trump administration and Congress. McClatchy reports the students have met with Republican Senators Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz and Congresswoman Ileana Ros-Lehtinen. Meetings have also been set up with the State Department and USAID. Steve, could you comment on that? Were you aware of these meetings?

STEPHEN HELLINGER: Yes, we knew things were going on behind the scenes, and now they’re more in the open. I think the U.S. is very hesitant to act openly, because Ortega is blaming a lot of this on U.S.-supported right-wing people. And this—everybody in the country knows that’s not true. But also, the business class in Nicaragua would like to see a resolution that keeps things more or less as they are, because they’ve been very comfortable. And so far, however, what is being proposed by the OAS and in a U.S.–joint U.S.-Nicaraguan statement, as Alejandro said, is far from what is needed. Maybe three months ago that would have been fine. Now, people are dying every day, and they need immediate help.

AMY GOODMAN: Mónica López Baltodano, your mother was a fighter with a Sandinista Liberation Front. Can you talk about what the students are demanding now? Your thoughts on them coming to meet with Republicans in Congress and appealing to the Trump administration, and what you think is going to happen now in Nicaragua?

MÓNICA LÓPEZ BALTODANO: Yeah, the people on the streets are not appealing to any force outside from our own. We are quite clear that the strength of this struggle is on the streets and on the organization of people in the streets. Of course, it’s relevant to make everyone outside Nicaragua understand the level of hate the government is portraying against Nicaragua’s population, the level of violence, the use of mechanisms that are unseen for my generation. Most of the youth that is outside could be called grandchildren of Nicaragua’s revolution. Most of them were born in the ’90s.

The people that are blocking streets, that are putting barricades, that are taking the universities’ campuses, all of those people are saying quite clearly, “We do not want any arrangement under the table. We want Ortega and Rosario Murillo out of power as soon as possible. We need to do a profound change in Nicaragua’s constitution and institutions in order to suppress all of these repressive mechanisms that are being used by the government,” but also because we are quite clear that the arrangement between big corporations and capital in Nicaragua with the government are both co-responsible for what’s going on in Nicaragua.

So, people are very clear on this hand. We don’t want anyone trying to push for what they call an easy solution, which would mean Ortega stays in power more time. For us, every day is a day that people lose their lives. Every one of us, our life is at risk. And we are not willing to sustain any arrangement that is done on the back of the people. So people are very clear: We want justice, we want them out, and we want a profound reform in Nicaragua’s constitution and institutionality.

AMY GOODMAN: And who would replace? You talked about Ortega and the vice president, his wife, Rosario.

MÓNICA LÓPEZ BALTODANO: Yeah, but it’s important to understand also about the phenomenon in Nicaragua is that this is not being led by any political party. In fact, all of the political forces in Nicaragua are completely—are completely—have been destroyed because of this politics of doing arrangement with Ortega’s regime.

Right now what we are seeing is a civic popular rebellion. We are in the process of organizing these different expressions of social protest. We are claiming, quite clearly, that in the process of defining who will be in this provisional government board, there should be a clear representation of the people on the streets, but also the fact that in the process of organizing new elections, we need to have the possibility of people joining the electoral process without representing political parties, because Nicaragua—in Nicaragua, population does not back up any of those political parties.

AMY GOODMAN: Mónica López Baltodano, we want to thank you very much for being with us, human rights activist on the ground in Managua; former Nicaraguan Ambassador to the U.N. Alejandro Bendaña, speaking to us from Abuja, Nigeria, where he’s visiting; and Stephen Hellinger, here in New York, at The Development GAP, [Group] for Alternative Policies.