Emanuele: Iwe unotaura nezve kugoverwa kwenzvimbo kwematambudziko ehupfumi. Kureva, kuti matambudziko akapararira sei kubva kune rumwe rutivi rwepasi kuenda kune rumwe. Iwe unotaura kuti vanhu havafaniri kushamiswa nekuparara kwehupfumi kwe2008. Somuenzaniso, iye zvino tine matambudziko ehupfumi munharaunda yeEU neNorth America, asi iwe unotaura nezvekuputika kweGDP kukura muTurkey, uye nzvimbo dzakasiyana-siyana dzeAsia. Iwe unotaurawo zvinokatyamadza: Semuyenzaniso, neChina, apo vanga vachipfuura nemudanho rakakura rekugara mumaguta mumakore makumi maviri apfuura, iwo mapurojekiti mamwe chete emaindasitiri anopa pundutso huru akatamisa mamirioni avanhu vekuChina nekuparadza nharaunda. Nguva yese iyi, mazhinji emapurojekiti aya, uye maguta ese, anogara asina chinhu, sezvo chikamu chidiki kwazvo chehuwandu hweChinese chinokwanisa kuwana humbozha nepekugara. Unogona kutaura nezve izvi zviitiko uye kupokana?
Harvey: Zvakanaka, China iri kuzviita nenzira imwechete iyo United States yakabuda muKuderera Kukuru-nekugara kweguta mushure meHondo Yenyika II. Ini ndinofunga maChinese, pavakatarisana nemubvunzo wezvavachaita, kunyanya mukuderera kwehupfumi hwenyika, uye nekuda kwehupfumi husina kunaka hunosvika 2007-08, vakafunga kuti vachabuda muhupfumi hwavo. matambudziko nemaguta uye zvirongwa zvezvivakwa: njanji dzinomhanya-mhanya, migwagwa mikuru, skyscrapers uye zvichingodaro. Idzi dzakava nzira iyo mari yakasara yakatorwa nayo. Hongu chero ani zvake aigovera China nemidziyo yakaita zvakanaka, nekuti kudiwa kweChinese kwaive kwakanyanya. China inotora hafu yezvigadzirwa zvesimbi pasi rose. Saka zvinoreva kuti kana iwe uchigadzira iron ore kana mamwe simbi senge Australia yave, saka hongu Australia inoita zvakanaka kwazvo sezvo vanga vasati vasangana nedambudziko rakawanda mumakore mashoma apfuura. MaChinese akatotora peji kubva mubhuku renhoroondo yehupfumi hweUnited States nekudzokorora chirongwa chekusimudzira hupfumi hweUS mushure me1945.
Muchidimbu, China yakafunga kuti inogona kuzviponesa nemhando imwe chete yehurongwa uye kudzivirira chero kusamira kwehupfumi kana kudzikira. Iwe unoziva, United States neEurope zvese zvakanyura mukukura-kwakaderera, kusiyana nemaChinese vakanakidzwa nekukurumidza kukuru kwekukura. Asi, zvakare, ndezvekutora iyo yakasara-capital nenzira dzinobereka. Ndiwo mubvunzo: Ini ndinoti tarisiro, nekuti hatizive kana iyo Chinese boom ichaenda. Kana iyo yeChinese boom ikaparara, sezvakaita musika wedzimba uye misika yemari muUS munenge muna 2008, ipapo capitalism yepasi rose ichave mudambudziko rakakura. Parizvino, maChinese ari kuyedza kudzikisira mwero wekukura kwavo. Saka, pachinzvimbo chekuvavarira iyo 10% GDP kukura, ivo vari kupfura 7-8% kukura mumakore anotevera. Vachaedza uye "kutonhora-kure." Ndinoreva, huya, maChinese ane anopfuura maguta mana asina chinhu. Unogona kuzvitenda here? Maguta asina chinhu zvachose. Chii chichaitika mumakore anotevera? Maguta aya anova nzvimbo dzemumaguta dzine zvibereko here? Vachangogara ipapo voora here? Kana zvakadaro, mari yakawanda yaizorasika uye kuora mwoyo kukuru kwaizorova China zvakare.
Muchiitiko ichi, dzimwe sarudzo dzisina kugadzikana dzezvematongerwo enyika dzaizoitwa, uye zvechokwadi taigona kutarisira kusagadzikana kwakanyanya pakati pevashandi vekuChina nevarombo. Nyika inoratidzika zvakasiyana zvikuru zvichienderana nokuti uri kunyika ipi. Somuenzaniso, ndaingova muIstanbul, Turkey; uye kune makirini ekuvaka munzvimbo yese. Uyezve, Turkey iri kukura pa7% pagore, saka inzvimbo ine simba chaizvo izvozvi. Paunenge wakamira muTurkey, haugone kufungidzira nyika yese iri munjodzi. Ipapo, ndakakwira ndege maawa maviri nehafu kuenda kuAthens, Greece; Handifaniri kukuudza zviri kuitika ikoko. Girisi yakaita sekupinda munzvimbo ine njodzi umo zvese zvinomiswa. Zvitoro zvese zvakavharwa uye hapana kuvakwa kuri kuitika chero mumaguta. Pano, une maguta maviri ari 600 mamaira kubva kune rimwe, asi iwo maviri akasiyana zvachose nzvimbo. Izvi ndizvo zvaunofanira kutarisira kuona muhupfumi hwenyika izvozvi: dzimwe nzvimbo dzinowedzera, dzimwe dzinoputika. Pane nguva dzose kusaenzana kwenzvimbo budiriro yehupfumi. Kwandiri, iyi inyaya inonakidza kutaurwa.
Emanuele: MuChitsauko Chechipiri, "The Urban Roots of the Crisis," unokurukura nezvekubatana pakati pedambudziko rehupfumi muUnited States, muridzi wemba uye kodzero yezvivakwa zvemunhu, izvo zviri zviviri zvakakosha zvikamu zvepfungwa mukati meAmerican Dream, asi iwe unokurumidza zvakare. kuratidza kuti "tsika dzetsika" dzakadaro dzinova dzakanyanya kusimba kana dzichitsigirwa nemitemo yenyika. Ndeipi mitemo iyoyo? Uye isu tingataure sei nezve aya maitiro kuburikidza neiyo ideological chiyero? Uyezve, gare gare muchitsauko, iwe unotaura kuti isu tinofanirwa kupfuura Marx, tichishandisa nzwisiso yake yekuziva. Tinofanira "kupfuura Marx" sei?
Harvey: Zvakanaka, kana ukadzokera kuma1930, uchaona kuti pasi pe40% yevaAmerica vaiva varidzi vemba. Saka, vanenge 60% yevagari vemuUS vairenda. Ikoku kwakanga kuri zvikurukuru chiverengero chavagari vapasi, kana kuti chepakati. Vaiwanzoroja. Zvino, vanhu ava vanga vari vanhu vane mhirizhonga. Saka pfungwa iyi yanga yakura pamusoro pemakore makumi mana kusvika makumi mashanu apfuura ekuti iwe waigona kudzikamisa vanhu vane runyararo uye kuvaita pro-capitalist uye pro-system nekuvacheka kuita varidzi vemba. Saka paive nerutsigiro rwakawanda rwenyika rwataimbodaidza masangano ekuchengetedza nekukwereta, ayo aive akasiyana nemabhanga. Idzi dzakanga dziri nzvimbo uko vanhu vaiisa mari dzavo dzokuchengeta, uye mari idzo dzaichengetwa dzaishandiswa kusimudzira kuva nedzimba nokuda kwavanhu vanotambira mari shoma. Chinhu chimwe chetecho chakanga chiri chechokwadi muโBuilding Societyโ yeBritain. Mumakore ekuma40 maitiro aya anotanga sezvo bhizinesi-kirasi yainetsekana kuti voita sei kuti vanhu vane mari shoma vagadzikane uye kusagadzikana. Paive nemutsara unoshamisa uyo bhizinesi-kirasi yaiwanzoshandisa, "Varidzi vepamba havarohwe!" Rangarira, vanhu vaifanira kukwereta kuti vave varidzi. Pane yako control mechanism. Pakazere, hurongwa uhu hwakanga husina kusimba munzira yese kuburikidza nema50s, kusvika kuma1890 apo hurumende yeUS nemabhizinesi-makirasi vakasarudza kuisimbisa. Kutanga, pawakatora chikwereti muma1920s waiwanzoiwana kweanenge makore matatu, ipapo waizofanira kumutsidzira, kana kutauriranazve pamusoro pemumba. Zvino, muma1930, vakagadzira iyo 1920 yegore remba. Asi kuti mari yembavha yemakore 1930 ishande, yaifanira kuvimbiswa neimwe nzira. Saka izvi zvakaita kuti pave nemasangano ehurumende aizovimbisa zvikwereti.
Zvechokwadi izvi zvinotungamirira kuFederal Housing Administration. Panguva imwecheteyo, mabhangi aida nzira yekupa zvikwereti kune mumwe munhu, saka vakagadzira sangano iri rinonzi Fannie May. Zvakare, izvi ndizvo zvauinazvo munguva yose iyi: Masangano ehurumende ari kushandiswa kukurudzira uye kuvimbisa kuva nedzimba, kunyanya kune vepakati kusvika kune vakaderera, izvo zvechokwadi zvairambidza vanhu ava kurova kana kubuda mumutsara. Iye zvino vane chikwereti. Aya masangano akatanga chaizvo mushure meHondo Yenyika II. Munguva iyi, pakanga paine propaganda yakawanda nezve "American Dream" uye zvazvaireva kuva America. Mutero wemortgage-deduction wakapinda, izvo zvakakutendera kuti ubvise mubereko pachikwereti chako. Rangarira, iyi rubatsiro rwakakura kuvaridzi vemba. Paive nerubatsiro rwehurumende rwevaridzi vemba; kwaiva nemasangano ehurumende aikurudzira kuva nedzimba. Saka, zvese izvi zvinova zvakakosha kana zvakabatana neGI Bhiri, iro rakapa kodzero yevaridzi vemba uye kurudziro kuvarwi vanodzoka kubva kuHondo Yenyika II. Paive nekusundidzira kunoshamisa kubva kumidziyo yehurumende kukurudzira uye kuvimbisa varidzi vemba. Rangarira, izvi zvaiitika mukati memamiriro ekukura kwemaguta. Aya masangano akave akanyanya kunetsa kumusika wedzimba, uye achiripo zvakadaro. Wese munhu aitaura nezve maitirwo aFannie May uye mutsva, Freddy Mac aifambiswa nehurumende, asi vari vega vega, asi isu tinoona ivo vakatove nyika. Saka, nekufamba kwenguva, hurumende yakasimudzira varidzi vemba uye yakaita basa guru mukugadzira idzi sub-prime mortgages.
Izvi zvakaitwa panguva yeClinton Administration muna 1995, pavaiyedza kusimudzira varidzi vedzimba pakati pevanhu vashoma muUnited States. Kuvandudzwa kwe "sub-prime dambudziko" kwakabatana zvakanyanya kune zvese zvaiitwa nebazi rakazvimirira, asiwo izvo zvaivimbiswa nehurumende. Kwandiri, ichi chinhu chakakosha chehupenyu hweAmerica, uko vanhu vanofamba kubva pamakumi matanhatu muzana ehuwandu hwevanhu vari kurenda, kusvika pakakwirira muna 60/2007 apo vanopfuura makumi manomwe muzana vevanhu vanova varidzi vedzimba. Izvi, zvechokwadi, zvinogadzira rudzi rwakasiyana rwemamiriro ezvematongerwo enyika. Mamiriro ezvematongerwo enyika apo kuchengetedzwa kwekodzero dzepfuma uye pfuma kunotanga kuve kwakakosha zvikuru. Zvino iwe une mafambisirwo emunharaunda apo vanhu vanoedza kuchengetedza vamwe vanhu kubva munharaunda nekuti vanoona vanhu ivavo sekutyaira pasi pfuma. Iwe unowana rudzi rwakasiyana rwezvematongerwo enyika nekuti imba inova nzira yekuchengetera mhuri dzepakati nedzinoshanda. Ehe, vanhu vanotora mari idzi nekubhadhara dzimba dzavo. Paive nekubhadhara kwakawanda kwaiitika panguva yekuwedzera kwepfuma muUS. Vanhu vazhinji vakaita purofiti kubva kumitengo yepamusoro yedzimba. Uku kusimudzirwa kwevaridzi vemba kwava kutorwa sekunge kurota kwenguva refu kweavo vanogara muUnited States. Nekudaro, kuve nechokwadi, kwagara kune rudzi urwu rwepfungwa muUnited States ine vanhu vanoenda kune dzimwe nyika, kuti kana ukawana imwe nzvimbo, rima zvimwe zvinhu pairi, nezvimwe zvakadaro, unogona kupedzisira wava nehupenyu hwakanaka. Hongu, ichi chaiva chimwe chezviroto zvevakabva kune imwe nyika. Asi izvi zvashandurwa kuita muridzi wemusha wemudhorobha, izvo zvisiri zvekuve nemombe nehuku kuseri kwemba yako, ndezvekuva nezviratidzo zvekutengesa zvakakukomberedza.
Zvino, chikonzero nei Marx yakakosha mune zvese izvi imhaka yekuti Marx aive neruzivo rwakadzama rwekuti kuunganidza mari kunoshanda sei. Akanzwisisa kuti muchina uyu wekukura usingaperi une zvakawanda zvinopokana mukati. Semuenzaniso, imwe yenheyo yekupokana inotaurwa naMarx iri pakati pe "use-value" uye "exchange-value." Iwe unogona kuona izvi zvichiitwa mumamiriro edzimba zvakajeka. Chii chekushandisa-koshi yeimba? Zvakanaka, inzira yekugara, nzvimbo yekuvanzika, ndiko uko munhu anogona kugadzira hupenyu hwemhuri, uye isu tinogona kunyora mashoma mamwe ekushandisa-makoshera emba, asi imba zvakare ine shanduko-kukosha. Rangarira, kana iwe uchiroja imba, unenge uchingoroja imba yacho kuti iwane kukosha kwayo. Asi paunotenga imba yacho, wava kuona imba iyi senzira yokuchengeta nayo mari, uye pashure penguva yakati, unoshandisa imba yacho senzira yokufungidzira. Nekuda kweizvi, mitengo yedzimba inotanga kupfura. Saka mumamiriro ezvinhu aya, kukosha-kukosha kunotanga kutonga kushandiswa-kukosha kweimba. Hukama huri pakati pekutsinhana nekushandisa-kukosha hunotanga kubva paruoko. Saka apo misika yedzimba inoputika, kamwe kamwe vanhu vane mamiriyoni mashanu vanorasikirwa nemisha yavo uye kukosha kwekushandisa kunonyangarika. Marx anotaura nezve kupokana uku uye kwakakosha. Tinofanira kubvunza mubvunzo: Chii chatinofanira kunge tichiita nedzimba? Chii chatinofanira kuita nezvehutano? Tiri kuitei nedzidzo? Hatifanire kunge tichisimudzira kushandiswa-kukosha kwedzidzo here? Kana kuti tinofanira kunge tichikurudzira kuchinjana-kukosha kwezvinhu izvi? Sei zvidikanwi zvehupenyu zvichifanira kugoverwa kuburikidza nekuchinjana-value system? Zviripachena isu tinofanirwa kuramba iyo yekutsinhana-kukosha hurongwa, iyo inobatwa mukuita zvekufungidzira, kuita purofiti, uye inokanganisa nzira dzatinogona kuwana nadzo zvigadzirwa nemasevhisi. Ndiyo mhando yekupokana Marx ainyatsoziva.
ZNetwork inopihwa mari chete kuburikidza nerupo rwevaverengi vayo.
dhoneta