Iyi hurukuro yakabudiswa muIstanbul zuva nezuva BirGun, musi wa 25 Kurume 2016. Onur Erem mutori wenhau anobvunzurudza Tariq Ali akatopomerwa mhosva mudare nekutuka vatungamiriri vehurumende, asi Mutongi akatonga kuti kutaura kwaErdogan se 'tinpot dictator' naTariq Ali kwaive mukati memiganhu yezvematongerwo enyika. nharo. Nekudaro, kutaura nezve Prime Minister Davutoglu se 'joker' zvakatongwa zvisingatenderwe. Erem anogona kutongerwa mwedzi gumi nemina mujeri, asi akwidza nyaya iyi uye akamirira mutongo wekupedzisira. Zvichakadaro, mapepanhau ari kurambidzwa nehurumende uye vatori venhau vari kushungurudzwa nekusungwa. Turkey inhengo yeNATO uye parizvino iri kubhadharwa mabhiriyoni neEuropean Union kuchengetedza vapoteri veSyria uye kusavatendera kuenda kunyika dzeEU. Izvi zvinobatsira kutsanangura kushayikwa kwehasha pamusoro pekunangwa kwemataundi eKurdish nemisha uye kurwiswa kwevatsoropodzi vese vehutongi hweErdogan hunoora. - The Editors.
Onur Erem: Mutungamiriri Davutoglu anoramba achiti rusununguko rwevatori venhau ndiyo inonyanya kukosha kwavari isu tichiwana nyaya dzematare dzisina musoro. Zvaakataura hazvisi chinhu asi kuseka, asi hatibvumidzwe kumuti museki. Jokers vaive vanhu vakakosha mumizinda, sezvakaita Davutoglu, mumuzinda waErdogan. Iwe unogona here kutsanangura kuti nei uchimuti joker uye kutaura nezvehukama hwake neimba yaErdogan?
TARIQ ALI: Ini ndinofunga mutongi akasarudza kuti Davutgolu haakwanise kunzi a joker anofanira kuva pachivande kudivi redu. Zvikasadaro, kutonga hakuna musoro zvachose. Inofumura nyika kusekwa.
Ndakamuti "joker" nekuti haandirove semunhu wezvematongerwo enyika akasimba, asi a placeman anoita zvaanenge audzwa achizviita zvakaipa. Asi usaita chikanganiso chekumuenzanisa nevaseki vedare mumatare ekare eEurope neAsia. Jester wedare aizivikanwa nekutaura chokwadi kumutongi, kunyangwe nenzira inosetsa. Museki aigona kutaura zvaisagona kuitwa nevakuru vedare uye, chokwadika, vazhinji vaivimba naye kuti ave noushingi. Zvingave zviri nani kudai Davotgulu akazvibata senge jester yekare, asi hapana rombo rakanaka kune varombo Turkey. Iyo Prime Minister haitorerwe zvakanyanya nevanhu vakawandisa.
Onur Erem: Kana uchienzanisa rusununguko rwekutaura munyika mbiri, chii chaizoitika kwauri muUK, dai wadaidza Cameron joker?
Tariq Ali: Hapana. Ndakamuti zvinhu zvakaipisisa kupfuura izvozvoโฆ.uye aimbove Mutungamiriri Tony Blair anozivikanwa zvakanyanya setsotsi rehondo.
Onur Erem: Kunyange zvazvo paine mitongo yeEuropean Court of Human Rights inoti vatori venhau havakwanisi kumiswa pamberi pedare nekuda kwezvinotaurwa nevavakabvunzurudza, matare eTurkey ari kupa vatori venhau mutongo nekuda kwekubvunzurudza kwavakaita. Sezvo uriwo mutori wenhau, unokwanisa here kuongorora mashandiro anoita vezvenhau erudzi urwu rwekudzidzira mudare, nemaonero emutapi wenhau?
Tariq Ali: Mhedzisiro iri pachena ichave yekumisa kubvunzurudza vanhu vane chekutaura. Vatori venhau vanozonyanya kungwarira, kunyangwe imwe mhinduro isiri yekuburitsa mazita evatori venhau vari kuita bvunzurudzo. The Times yeLondon haina kumboburitsa mazita evashandi vayo mumazuva ekare uye The Economist zvakadaro hazvidaro. Mupepeti chete ndiye anoziva. Iyo inogona kunge iri mhinduro imwe chete chero uine mupepeti akaoma akagadzirira kuramba kushungurudzwa nehurumende uye kutyisidzirwa.
Onur Erem: Hurumende iri kutarisira kuti vatori venhau vatarise kushoropodzwa kwevakabvunzurudzwa - kana kuti vacharohwa nedare. Izvi zvinorevei kune rusununguko rwekutaura? Ungapa bvunzurudzo kumutori wenhau waunoziva kuti achaongorora zvaunotaura uye kutsoropodza kwako here?
Tariq Ali: Kwete, handidi. Kunenge kutambisa nguva. Pano zvakare munhu aigona kufunga nzira dzekukunda censor. Ini ndaigona kuisa mhinduro pane yangu Facebook peji kana webhusaiti kana Counterpunch. Bepa rako rinogona kuburitsa mibvunzo uye kutumira vaverengi kune CounterPunch webhusaiti kana chimwe chinhu chakadaro. Munyika yanhasi hazvisi nyore kudzvanyirira ruzivo. Tekinoroji yakatibatsira zvikuru.
Onur Erem: Mwedzi mishanu yapfuura kubva ipapo kubvunzurudza kwedu nezve kuurayiwa kweAnkara iyo yakauraya 107, panguva ino hondo munzvimbo dzeKurdish dzakawedzera uye kwave kune mamwe mabhomba matatu muAnkara neIstanbul, akaitwa neTAK (Kurdistan Freedom Falcons) uye ISIS, achiuraya akawanda. Nhasi vanhu vanotya kufamba mumigwagwa uye zvinotyisa zviitiko kubva kuhondo yenyika kusvika kune imwe nyika. coup d'etat vari kutenderera. Paunoongorora mamiriro azvino muTurkey iwe unofanoonei kune nyika?
Tariq Ali: Kutya kunokonzera kutya. Ini ndinopesana zvachose kune zvose zvinotyisa zvehurumende uye avo vanopindura nenzira yakafanana. Iyo TAK inozvidza kurwira kweKurdish kuzvitonga uye socialism. HAPANA chikonzero chechero boka rinozvibatanidza neKuruboshwe kuuraya vasina mhosva uye kukurudzira kuzviuraya mabhomba. Kana iri ISIS, tinoziva kwavanobva. Tinoziva kuti ndiani akazvishandisa munguva yakapfuura. Tinoziva kuti kusawirirana kwavo kunotungamirira kukuuraya. Pano nyika yeTurkey, sevakuru vayo veNATO, yakabatsira kugadzira chikara icho chainoti chinopikisa. Mamiriro ezvinhu muTurkey nhasi ari kunetsa zvakanyanya. Hutongi hwekuvhunduka, huchida kuparadzanisa vanhu vekuKurd kubva kune vasiri maKurds nekuti vaitya kusimuka kweHDP, vakabatsira kuunza dambudziko guru munyika. Inogona kupera here Erdogan achiramba ari musimba? Handifunge kudaro.
Onur Erem: Erdogan akataura mushure mekupedzisira bhomba muAnkara ndokuti "Kana musiri kutitsigira, saka muri kutsigira hugandanga". Akaraira hurumende kuti ipasise mutemo mutsva we "anti-terror" uyo wakanangana nevatori venhau nevadzidzi vanomushora se "magandanga asina pfuti". Iyewo nguva pfupi yapfuura akadudzawo Germany yaHitler somuenzaniso wakaisvonaka wehurumende yapurezidhendi inobudirira inobudirira. Kana iwe uchienzanisa hutongi hwaari kuyedza kuvaka nehutongi hwefascist munhoroondo, ndezvipi zvakafanana uye mutsauko waunowana?
Tariq Ali: Erdogan anogona kunge asiri "joker," asi iye zvechokwadi mupambi wezvematongerwo enyika. Kutaura kwake pamusoro pekutyisa kwaunotaura kunobva mumuromo maGeorge W. Bush mushure me9/11. Asi Erdogan anoda kuenda mhiri kwaBush nekuita hutori hwenhau dzakakomba uye vatsoropodzi muacademy zvisiri pamutemo. Chii chichava mutsauko pakati pake nehurumende yemauto? Zvishoma-shoma. Ndakarava tsinhiro dzake pamusoro pokubudirira kwaHitler saChancellor weGermany. Zvakanaka, hongu. Asi ipapo AKP yaizofanira kurambidza mamwe mapato ezvematongerwo enyika, kuvhara mapepanhau ese akakosha, kupisa mabhuku anotsoropodza hutongi uye gasi maKurds kuti vafe ... mhinduro yekupedzisira yeKurdish 'dambudziko.' Neimwe nzira handifungi kuti ari kuda kuita izvozvo. NATO yaizokumbira chikamu chayo cheTurkey [mauto eTurkey] kuti atore simba nguva refu zvisati zvaitika. Zvatiri kuona muTurkey ihurumende isina yunifomu yehutongi inotungamirirwa nemumwe wezvematongerwo enyika akabvumira simba kuenda kumusoro wake uye ari kuita zvakanyanya semudzvinyiriri. Nokukurumidza kana kuti gare gare izvi zvichamutsa kumukira kwezvematongerwe enyika munyika yose sezvakaitika pashure peGezi.
Onur Erem: Ndiwo mamwe mazwi aungade kuita maererano neTurkey, Erdogan, hukama hwake neEU kana mitemo yake yeMiddle East?
Tariq Ali: Kumadokero (iyo US / EU bloc) uye midhiya yayo haina kunyatso kufukidza iyo ichangoburwa yehudzvanyiriri muTurkey. Chikonzero chiri nyore. Vari kubhadhara mabhiriyoni kuAnkara kudzora uye kudzosa vapoteri vehondo yeSyria. Vanotya kuti kana vakagumbura Erdogan achashandisa vapoteri sechombo chezvematongerwo enyika. Saka vanonyarara. Zvekare zvakare Western zviyero zviviri zviri pakuratidzira kwakazara.
ZNetwork inopihwa mari chete kuburikidza nerupo rwevaverengi vayo.
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