David Harvey akaverengerwa semumwe wevanyori makumi maviri nevakanyanya kudomwa vemabhuku muvanhu muna 2007 nekambani yeruzivo rwebhizinesi Thomson Reuters, asi anogona kudada nekuunza pfungwa yake ye "kuunganidza nekudzingwa" muzvidzidzo zvese nemuratidziri. nyika. Kuunganidza nekubvisa chinhu chakakosha chepfungwa chishandiso chekunzwisisa mashandisirwo emazuva ano neoliberal policy. Kunyange zvazvo Raibhurari yakadhindwa pasi rose yakamudaidza kuti "mumwe wevane simba zvikuru vejogirafi vezana ramakore rakazotevera," akagara muEl Revolucionario Bar, pamberi peArgentinean Congress Square, anotaridzika semumwe wevazhinji vekuBuenos Aires's bohemians. Ndiye Purofesa Anoremekedzwa weAnthropology uye Geography paGraduate Center yeCity University yeNew York (CUNY) uye akakokwa kuArgentina kuti apinde International Encounter of Political Economy yakarongwa naAmai vePlaza de Mayo. Mubhuku rake rokupedzisira Maguta Echipanduki: Kubva Kurudyi kuenda kuGuta kuenda kuUrban Revolution, munyori we Mamiriro ePostmodernity, The New Imperialism uye Paris, Capital of Modernity inokurudzira kutarisa zvakare guta semunda wemakakatanwa umo kuvandudza dzimwe nzira dzekuzviparadza dze capitalism.
Lucas Palero: In Maguta Echimurenga, iwe unoti "Bato reWall Street rine mutemo umwechete wepasirese wekutonga: kuti hapazove nekunetsa kwakakomba kusimba rakakwana remari kutonga zvachose." Sarudzo dziri kuuya. Ndeipi kudyidzana pakati peBato iri reWall Street nemapato echinyakare, Republican neDemocrat?
David Harvey: Bato reWall Street rine chidimbu chikuru chemapato ese ezvematongerwo enyika. Kazhinji vanoparadzira mari iyoyo pakati pemapato maviri kuitira kuti varambe vaine masimba ezvematongerwo enyika, zvisinei kuti nderipi bato rinotonga. Panguva ino vari kutyira kuti VaObama vangangoramba vari pachigaro, saka vari [kutsigira] maRepublicans kupfuura mazuva ese. Asi ini ndinofunga kuti ndezvechikonzero chaicho: kuti vave kuziva zvavakanganisa uye vanoziva kuti zviri pamutemo vangangokandwa mutirongo. Uye kunyangwe VaObama vasingaite izvozvo, kana bato rezvemagariro rikasimuka, senge Occupy Wall Street, rakamusundidzira, anozviita zviri nyore kupfuura Romney. Izvi zvinotsanangurawo kuti sei paine kuita kwemapurisa kunotyisa kudaro kuOccupy Wall Street, iri idiki uye neimwe nzira kufamba kusina mhosva.
LP: Bato reOccupy ringaite sei pfungwa dzako dze Maguta Echipanduki?
DH: Vanogona kubatsira, asi humwe husina simba hwesangano reOccupy nderokuti mune mamwe mamiriro ezvinhu chete rakagadzira hukama hwakanaka nemasangano aripo, masangano asina pokugara, masangano akasiyana-siyana muguta. Mune dzimwe nzira Occupy ine, mukujoinha mafambisirwo iwayo, ikozvino yave chikamu chavo, pane kuparadzanisa rudzi rwekufamba. Ini ndinofunga pane zvakawanda zviri kuitika mumaguta eAmerica uye mumaguta kazhinji kupfuura Occupy ainetsekana nazvo. Uye, semuenzaniso, iti, Iyo Right to the City Alliance muLos Angeles ine simba uye vane hukama nemapoka akaita seBus Riders Union, vane hukama nemapoka evashandi sevashandi vemumba uye zvichingodaro ... gadziriro ye mafambiro emagariro ari kutanga kubuda mumaguta akawanda anogona kutanga kushandisa simba pamusoro peguta rose, asi zviri munhanho yekutanga kuita izvozvo.
LP: Asi sei mafambiro aya angave ane pesvedzero kusvika pakushandura kushanduka kweguta? Kana ukafunga nezveBuenos Aires, somuenzaniso, muguta rimwe chetero umo magungano akakurumbira aishandira, vakawanda vavanhu gare gare vakasarudza meya worudyi. MuMadrid, ye vakatsamwa sangano, Partido Yakakurumbira yakakunda sarudzoโฆ
DH: Zvakanaka, iwe unofanirwa kuziva izvo zvakawanda zve vakatsamwa uye vazhinji vesocial movement vanhu vari munharaunda vanokurudzirwa zvakanyanya neanarchist vision uye havavhoti. Havapindiri muhurongwa hwesarudzo. Zvandinofunga kuti wakaona kuGreece ndezvekuti kutyisidzira kwefascism kwakawedzera kusimba zvekuti vanhu vazhinji vari mumasangano emunharaunda vasingawanzovhoti vakabuda vakavhota ndosaka wakaona vhoti reSyriza richibva pa4% kuenda pa27%. . Chimwe chenyaya yacho ndechekuti masoja anofunga kuti zvematongerwo enyika zvine zvazvinoreva. Nhamba yakanaka yavo, ndinofungidzira pano muBuenos Aires zvakare, ndevaanarchist vakafuridzirwa kana mapoka akafuridzirwa e autonomista, uye ivo vanenge vasingadi kutora chikamu mumasarudzo, zvinoreva kuti kukunda kwesarudzo kwekodzero hakumiriri simba rakakurumbira nokuti. chikamu chakanaka cheruzhinji hachisi kuvhota. Dai vakavhota, kodzero ingadai yakakundwa. Asi ipapo iwe unenge uine vesocial democrats vadzoke musimba uye zvechokwadi masangano ezvemagariro ane ruzivo rwakanyanya rwezvinoitika kana vesocial democrats vari kutonga. Hapana chinoshandura. Saka, iro idambudziko.
LP: Mhinduro iyi ine chekuitawo netsika yako, padyo neMarxism?
DH: Hongu, ndinoshanda zviri pachena neMarxian hupfumi hwezvematongerwo enyika asi, semuongorori wenzvimbo, ndinonzwira tsitsi tsika yeanarchist. Kropotkin aiva geographer. Vazhinji veakanyanya geographer vezana ramakore rechigumi nemapfumbamwe vaive vanarchist, ndinofunga nechikonzero chakanaka kwazvo, chiri chekuti vakatora pfungwa dzenzvimbo, pfungwa dzetsika, uye pfungwa dzezvakatipoteredza zvakanyanya zvakanyanya kupfuura zvakajairika Marxists. Ndanga ndichiedza kupesvedzera yakajairika Marxism kuti itore nyaya idzi zvakanyanya, asi zvakare ndichiri kutenda zvakawanda izvo anarchist nezve. Ini ndinopokana navo nezve, zvakanaka, kana iwe ukabvumira nyika kuti itongwe zvizere nemasimba ekuita ipapo, iwe unoziva, iwe uchatambura semhedzisiro. Ndine nharo navo, asi handisi kutsoropodza anarchism zvachose.
LP: Unobatanidza hondo yeOccupy Wall Street neTahrir Square struggle, Puerta del Sol, Syntagma Square uye St. Paul's Cathedral kurwa sesangano repasi rose rinopikisa simba remari. Sangano iri ringavaka sei sangano repasi rose risina kuwira mukukanganisa kumwechete kwakaitwa neanarchism uye inonzi "chaiyo communism" kare?
DH: Dai ndine mhinduro iri nyore pane izvozvo, zviri pachena kuti ndingadai ndisina kugara pano ndichitaura newe. Ndinoreva kuti, tinenge tichiita chimurenga uye zvese zvinenge zvichifamba. Pane nguva dzose njodzi nekutora mamwe maitiro ehurongwa. Ndakataura, mu Maguta Echimurenga bhuku, pamusoro pezvandinodaidza kuti fetishism yechimiro chesangano: kuti mapoka mazhinji ane tsananguro dzekunze dzekuti chimiro chesangano chinofanirwa kuve chii, zvisinei nerudzi rwedambudziko ravari kugadzirisa. Kana iwe uchifunga kuti unogona kuronga nyika yese pamuenzaniso wegungano, zvakanaka, zviri pachena kuti kupenga. Saka, iwe unofanirwa kufunga nezve hierarchies yerumwe rudzi, kana "nested" zvimiro zvekuita sarudzo. Iwe unofanirwa kufunga nezvemhando dzesangano pazviyero zvakasiyana. Mamwe ekuruboshwe anozvibvisa simba nekugara chete padanho renzvimbo uye kusaedza kufamba zvachose, uye macommunist akasara anozviitira matambudziko neimwe nzira, nekufungidzira kuti zano repamusoro-pasi raizoshanda.
Zvinotaridza, neimwe nzira kana imwe, kuti isu tinofanirwa kuvaka mafomu esangano ane hukama hwemvura pakati pemabhesi akakurumbira ane zvishuwo zvakasiyana zvetsika, zvido, uye zvido. Asi pane hukama pakati pezvose izvi uye nzira dzepakati dzesangano uye, pakupedzisira, hurongwa hwepasi rose. Chimwe chezvikonzero chandinotora pamubvunzo wekuti ndingaronga sei guta rose imhaka yekuti, zvinoita kwandiri, haina hombe uye isingatsananguriki se "Nyika." Haina kana yakakura uye isingatsananguriki se, toti, kuronga iyo United States yese, asi iri kuronga chimwe chinhu chine nharaunda yenzvimbo inokwanisika kufungidzira: simba rezvematongerwo enyika rinotonga hupenyu hwemaguta, uye muzita re. vagari vemo, kwete muzita remukuru. Saka chikonzero chandinofunga kuti nharaunda yemadhorobha inzvimbo yakakosha uye nzvimbo yekurwira imhaka yekuti haisi yenzvimbo zvachose, uye zvakare nekuti hukama hwepakati pemadhorobha uye hukama hwemadhorobha hune nhoroondo refu yekuve yakakosha uye yakakosha. Uye saka, ndinofunga kuruboshwe kunofanirwa kunge kuri kufunga nezvekuronga padanho iro, asi izvo hazvina kunyatso kuyedzwa zvakanyanyaโฆ
LP:-Senge network yemaguta evapanduki?
DH: -Itiweki yemaguta evapanduki, hongu.
ZNetwork inopihwa mari chete kuburikidza nerupo rwevaverengi vayo.
dhoneta