Patrick Elie ndi msilikali wa ku Haiti yemwe ankagwira ntchito mu ulamuliro woyamba wa Aristide. Ndidacheza naye ku Port au Prince pa Okutobala 5, 2011.
Justin Podur (JP): Kodi tingayambe ndi kusanthula kwanu kwa Preval administration ya 2006-2011? Kodi akanatha kuchita chiyani panthawiyi? Kodi anakwaniritsa chiyani?
Patrick Elie (PE): Preval adasankhidwanso chifukwa cha chiyembekezo ndi chiyembekezo ndi gulu lodziwika bwino la ku Haiti komanso anthu ambiri aku Haiti. Komabe - ndipo apa ndipamene ndinali ndi kusiyana kwanga ndi njira yomwe adatenga - ndinaganiza kuti chifukwa cha chidwi chodziwika ichi, inali nthawi yosintha kwambiri. Komabe, Purezidenti Preval ankaganiza kuti chofunika kwambiri chinali bata. Malingana ndi lingaliro limenelo, adasewera bwino ndipo adapanga zomwe adazitcha boma lambiri, akuitana magulu ena andale omwe adatsutsana naye kwambiri komanso Lavalas kuti alowe nawo boma. Iye anachita kukhazika mtima pansi ndale mwanjira ina. Komabe, sindikuganiza kuti izi zitha. Njira yokhayo yokhazikika yomwe idzabwere ku Haiti ndikusintha, osati kungokhala chete. Anali ndi ntchito yovuta, koma ndimasungabe malingaliro anga.
Chimene chinalamulira ndi kuthetsa zopindulitsa zambiri zomwe Bambo Preval adatha kupeza chinali chivomezi. Ichi chinali nkhonya yowononga kotheratu kwa iye pandale ndi payekha, monga munthu, iye anagwedezeka kwenikweni. Panali zosokoneza - zomangamanga, zomanga misewu, mawu omveka pakupanga dziko, ndipo Bambo Preval nthawi zonse ankapereka chidwi chapadera kwa wamba waku Haiti zomwe ndikuganiza kuti ndizolondola. Koma ndi zochuluka bwanji mwa zopindulazi zomwe zatsala tsopano?
JP: Chivomezicho chitatha, Preval ndi ena adatsutsa kuti chisankhocho chiyenera kuchedwa. Munaganiza bwanji pamkangano umenewo?
PE: Chisankho chinayenera kuchedwa. M'malingaliro mwanga, siziyenera kuchedwetsedwa ndi miyezi ingapo. Ndikuganiza kuti funso lonse la zisankho liyenera kuyikidwa pambali powona zadzidzidzi zomwe zidachitika. Siinali nthawi yoti zilakolako zandale zikwaniritsidwe. Ndipo ndikukhulupirira momwe zisankho zidakhalira zikutsimikizira mfundo yanga.
JP: Preval anali kukakamiza munthu, Jude Celestin, yemwe pamapeto pake adasiya -
PE: Chifukwa chokakamizidwa ndi mayiko. Ndikuganiza kuti Jude Celestin anali chisankho cholakwika kwambiri ngati wosankhidwa. Bambo Celestin sanakhale mbali ya gulu lotchuka la demokalase. Anangokhala ngati kalulu wotulutsidwa pachipewa. Komanso, sindimamvetsetsa kuti lingaliro kapena simenti yandale yomwe inali ndi nsanja yotchedwa "Unity" inali chiyani. Inali ntchito yongoyembekezera yomwe inasonkhanitsa anthu ochokera m'mitundu yonse. Kotero, mwa lingaliro langa, izo zinawonongedwa kuyambira pachiyambi.
Tsopano ndithudi gulu la mayiko, makamaka US, nawonso anathandiza kuthetsa izo. Osati chifukwa cha Bambo Celestin mwiniwake, koma chifukwa mwanjira ina yosalunjika, izi zikanatanthawuza kupitiriza kwa zochitika za Lavalas. Osati chifukwa chakuti Bambo Celestin anali Lavalas, koma chifukwa kaya akudzinenera kapena ayi, Bambo Preval amachokera ku gululi. A US makamaka, komanso Canada ndi France, adaganiza kuti nthawi yafika yotseka mutuwu wa ndale zaku Haiti.
JP: Yatsekedwa? Mukuganiza bwanji za Martelly, boma lomwe linatuluka pazisankho?
PE: Ndi tsoka. Ndakhala ndikulowerera ndale kwa zaka zambiri kuyambira ndili ndi zaka 25, ndipo sindinkachita mantha kwambiri ndi tsogolo la Haiti. Pali zifukwa zingapo. Yoyamba ndi gulu lodziwika bwino lomwe tikulankhula - ndipo ndikuyembekeza kwakanthawi - likusokonekera. Palibe ndale zomwe zimaperekedwa. Ndipo utsogoleri wa ndale uyenera kukonzedwanso, kutsitsimutsidwa ndi malingaliro atsopano, pogwiritsa ntchito zochitika zomwe tinali nazo pazaka 1915, zabwino ndi zoipa, ndipo izi sizinayambe. Chifukwa chachiwiri chomwe ndikuwopa ndi chakuti US wakhala ndi masomphenya a Haiti, kuti awoneke, awononge ufulu wa eni eni eni ang'onoang'ono a ku Haiti omwe ali ndi mtundu wina wodzilamulira. Zinayamba mu XNUMX ndi ntchito yoyamba ndipo sizinasinthe. Zinadutsa magawo - ulamuliro wankhanza, chida chachuma, koma tsopano, chivomezicho chinawapatsa mwayi wodabwitsa. Haiti imadalira kwambiri. Mwayi wapezeka wowuumba. Ndipo Martelly ndiwabwino pa izi.
JP: Chifukwa chiyani?
PE: Martelly alibe chidziwitso chenicheni pazandale. Iye alibe kuvomerezeka kotchuka. Akuyesera kuchita zomwe sizingatheke: Akuyesera kubwezeretsa dongosolo lomwe iye ndi gulu lake adapindula nalo - ulamuliro wankhanza wakale. Sizitheka, kupatula pakanthawi kochepa, ndiye kuti zidzalephera momvetsa chisoni. Simupanga mbiri kubwerera mmbuyo. Pakulephera kwake, awononga dziko. Zoonadi, zomwe zidzachitike, ndikuti adzakhala pa siteji, koma anthu enieni omwe amasankha ndondomeko ya Haiti adzakhala anthu apadziko lonse.
JP: Izi zikusiyana bwanji ndi Preval?
PE: Preval anali ndi zochitika zandale. Adakhala wankhondo kuyambira m'ma 1960, ndipo pambuyo pake anali mnzake wa Purezidenti Aristide. Anali ndi zovomerezeka zodziwika bwino zomwe zimamulola, kudalira monga Haiti, njira ina yomwe sindikuganiza kuti Bambo Martelly adzasangalala nayo.
JP: Gulu lalikulu lankhondo ku Haiti kwa zaka zisanu ndi ziwiri zapitazi lakhala United Nations, MINUSTAH yolamulidwa ndi Brazil. Chivomezi chisanachitike tinkakonda kumva za momwe amalonda akukakamiza MINUSTAH kuti awononge madera osauka. Kodi zimenezo zapita kuti chiyambire chivomezi?
PE: Poyerekeza ndi 2004-2006 yachepetsedwa. Zochita za MINUSTAH mโmadera osauka sizinali zankhanza kwenikweni. Ndikuganiza kuti chifukwa chomwe ena mwa anthu omwe adayitana MINUSTAH akufunsa kuti achoke, ndi chifukwa chakuti akufuna kubwereranso kwa otchedwa National Force, omwe angakhale ankhanza kwambiri poyanjana ndi madera otchuka.
JP: A Martelly amavomereza izi, nayenso, ndipo mkangano umapangidwa pazifukwa zaulamuliro. Izi zimapangitsa kuti zikhale zovuta kunena kuti MINUSTAH achoke ngati asinthidwa ndi Asitikali aku Haiti, makamaka ku US.
PE: Sindikuganiza kuti tiyenera kukhala ndi zosankha zosavuta. Tikufuna gulu la anthu mdziko muno, monga m'dziko lililonse. Koma tikufuna imodzi yomwe ilidi yothandiza dzikolo ndi anthu ake. Tikupatsidwa mwayi wosankha pakati pa gulu lankhondo lakunja kapena kukhala ndi gulu lotchedwa National Army. Izi siziyenera kulandiridwa. Gulu la anthu loyankha anthu aku Haiti likhoza kumangidwa.
JP: Aristide amayesa kuchita izi ndi PNH. Kodi zinthu zikadakhala bwanji tsopano, kuposa pamenepo, kuti Martelly ayese kupanga mphamvu yoteroyo?
PE: Ndinali komweko pamene PNH inali kupangidwa. Ulamuliro wa asilikali a ku Haiti unali wofooka kwambiri. Inali nkhondo yokhazikika pakati pa zomwe Purezidenti Aristide amafuna ndi zomwe US โโโโimafuna kukakamiza. Nthawi zonse. Chimene chinatuluka mmenemo ndi chimene ndimachitcha mphamvu ya โbastardโ, ndipo mโzaka zapitayo sichinakhale bwinoko. Chomwe chimafunikira ndikukonzanso, kukonzanso, ndi kuyang'anira kwakukulu.
JP: Zomwe bungwe la UN likunena kuti lakhala likuchita kwa zaka zisanu ndi ziwiri zapitazi.
PE: Ngati izi ndi zomwe akuyenera kuwonetsa pambuyo pa zaka zisanu ndi ziwiri, ndi zotsatira zokhumudwitsa. Iwo anali ndi pafupifupi mphamvu zonse kwa zaka zisanu ndi ziwiri zakusankha ndi kuphunzitsa. Mโlingaliro limeneli ndimatha kumvetsa chifukwa chake anthu akuwaitanira kuti achoke.
Chodetsa nkhawa china chomwe ndili nacho ndikuti chitetezo m'dziko muno nthawi zambiri chimakhala chachinsinsi. Muli ndi chitetezo chachinsinsi pano kuposa apolisi. Kulamuliridwa ndi boma la makampani achitetezo awa ndikochepa. Tikhoza kutsika sitepe ina. Nthawi zonse makontrakitala ochokera ku US akabwera, kaya bizinesi yawo ndi yotani, nthawi zonse amabweretsa zida zawo zachitetezo. Ndikuganiza kuti dziko la Haiti lidzakhala ndi mphamvu zochepa pamakampani achitetezo akunja kusiyana ndi makampani achitetezo aku Haiti.
JP: Munati mayendedwe akuyenera kuphunzira kuchokera m'mbuyomu. Iyi ikhoza kukhala nthawi yabwino yosinkhasinkha. Ndi zolakwika ziti zomwe mukuganiza kuti gululi lidapanga zaka zingapo zapitazi?
PE: Tsiku lina ndikulankhula ndi mnzanga. Ndidati, ngakhale ndimadana ndi kufananitsa pakati pa Lavalas ndi Martelly, pali imodzi yoti ipangidwe. Ndikuganiza kuti tidapeputsa zovuta pakubweretsa kusintha kwakukulu m'dziko lino ndi zopinga ndi zotsutsana zomwe tikanakumana nazo. Martelly akupeputsa zovuta zobwezeretsa mbiri yakale. Ndikukhulupirira kuti poyesa kusintha ndale za ku Haiti komanso anthu aku Haiti, tinali osadziwa, komanso mwachangu kwambiri.
Pa Disembala 16, 1990, Purezidenti Aristide adayikidwa ku National Palace. Koma National Palace ndi nyumba chabe. Si mphamvu. Mphamvu zimagwirizana ndi chuma, mlingo wa bungwe, mlingo wa chidziwitso cha anthu ambiri. Gawo ili tidanyalanyaza. Sitinkadziwa mokwanira za magulu ankhondo, ankhondo, ndi akazembe omwe atitsutsa ndi ziwawa zazikulu. Umu ndi momwe Purezidenti wosankhidwa ndi pafupifupi anthu onse, miyezi isanu ndi iwiri pambuyo pake adachotsedwa pampando wankhanza kwambiri. Simutaya mphamvu ngati muli nayo. Lingaliro langa ndikuti sitinakhalepo ndi mphamvu. Zomwe tidapeza zinali mwayi waukulu womwe udalipo m'gulu lotchuka komanso ludzu lalikulu lakusintha, ulemu ndi kufanana.
Izi ngakhale pazachuma, kupatsidwa kulanda kuwiri ndi chidani chosatha, panalibe zopindula zenizeni. Chidziwitso cha kukhalapo kwawo ngati mphamvu yomwe ingatheke ndiye phindu lathu lofunika kwambiri. Koma tiyenera kumanga pa izo.
JP: Nanga kugwilizana, kugula atsogoleri, zinthu ngati zimenezo?
PE: Zinalipo zimenezo. Mu 1990, sichinali chipani chandale chomwe chinasankhidwa. Anali mtsogoleri, pa nsanja yosankhidwa. Apanso, chinthu chomwecho chomwe chinafanana ndi zomwe Bambo Preval anayesera kugwirizanitsa posachedwapa, ndi anthu ochokera kumadera osiyanasiyana amalingaliro, ndi zina zotero. Tsogolo lidzayenera kudalira kwambiri gulu lachitukuko lachitukuko kusiyana ndi zipani zandale zosakhalitsa kapena nsanja zachisankho. Tiyenera kumanganso maziko olimba amenewo.
JP: Kodi pali malo aliwonse oti achite izi, poganizira momwe machitidwe a NGO-izing akuyendera padziko lonse lapansi omwe ali amphamvu kwambiri pano?
PE: Ndizovuta kwambiri. Makamaka mโmizinda, anthu akuyamba kusuliza. Ndi zomwe zilimo kwa ine lero, osati zomwe zili momwemo kwa ife mawa. Zimakhala zochepa kwambiri kumidzi. Iyenera kuphatikizidwa mu equation yathu ndikuwona momwe tingapitire patsogolo mosasamala kanthu za zovutazo. Tilinso ndi anthu omwe ndi achichepere kwambiri. Anthu omwe adavotera Purezidenti Aristide kumbuyoko mu 1990 tsopano ali pachiwopsezo cha moyo wawo potengera kutalika kwa moyo ku Haiti. Anthu ambiri a ku Haiti anali asanakwanitse zaka XNUMX pamene zimenezi zinkachitika. Pali kufunikira kotheratu kwa maphunziro, kufalitsa zokumana nazo za anthu amsinkhu wanga, kapena ocheperapo.
JP: Funso lomaliza: Duvalier ndi Aristide adabwerako motsatizana, ndipo ndikudabwabe za nthawi komanso ndale za onse awiri zidachitika.
PE: Kubwerera kwa Aristide kunali kufuna kwa anthu aku Haiti. Nthawiyi inali yokhudzana ndi mfundo yakuti Mr. Preval akadali purezidenti, ndipo akadadikira miyezi ingapo, kubwerera kumeneku sikukanachitika -
JP: Ndipo mwina akanachita msanga akanakumana ndi vuto ndi US.
PE: Inde, koma kunena zoona, ndikanakhala purezidenti wa Haiti, kuona mtsogoleri akubwerera yemwe ali ndi kutchuka kwambiri kuposa ine, akanandisokoneza. Ndikukhulupirira - ndipo zinatsimikiziridwa - kuti Purezidenti Preval sanali wotsutsa kubwerera kwa Purezidenti Aristide, ziribe kanthu kusiyana komwe kungakhalepo pakati pawo mu kalembedwe ndi masomphenya, Bambo Preval anapanga zimenezo.
Kubwerera kwa a Duvalier ndi nkhani yosiyana. Kaya ali ndi zifukwa zotani, zokhudzana ndi kuyesa kubweza katundu wina ku Switzerland, ndikuganiza kuti analinso mayeso. Njira imodzi yodziwira kuchuluka kwa kusokonekera kwa anthu aku Haiti. Ndipo mpaka pano ndi mayeso omwe apambana. Njira yonse yoweruza milandu yotsutsana ndi a Duvalier yatsekedwa. Mwachionekere ali ndi chitetezo cha dziko la Haiti, pamene Pulezidenti Aristide akadali pangozi. Nโzoonekeratu kuti anthu amene akumuyangโanira panopa amadana naye, ndipo kutchuka kwake kudakali kolimba kwambiri, makamaka mโmizinda. Sindikudziwa zakumidzi. Ndikuganiza kuti zomwe wachita mpaka pano ndi njira yopitira. Ino si nthawi yolimbana ndi magulu ankhondo omwe akugwira ntchito mdziko muno. Ndikuganizanso kuti monga gulu, tiyenera kusiya ndale zachisankho monga cholinga chathu chachikulu ndikubwerera ku zofunikira - maphunziro, bungwe, ndikupanga masomphenya omwe alidi a dziko komanso okhazikika mwa anthu aku Haiti.
Justin Podur ndi wolemba ku Toronto. Ali ku Haiti kuyambira Oct 3-10.
ZNetwork imalandira ndalama kudzera mu kuwolowa manja kwa owerenga ake.
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