SABC: The ANC says it is happy with the case made by the South African delegation led by President Cyril Ramaphosa to the US in May this year. This is despite the team failing to convince the US administration to lower its proposed tariffs against Pretoria. The Donald Trump administration has slapped South African goods with a 30% tariff hike, but exempted some countries in the SADC region. Now, the Donald Trump administration has slapped South African goods with a 30% tariff hike, but exempted some countries in the SADC region. And for more on this, we are now joined by Director of the Center for Social Change in the Department of Sociology at the University of Johannesburg, Professor Patrick Bond. He joins us now via our video link. Professor, thank you so much for your time this evening. Now, the ANC is dealing with a number of issues as it meets in Gerston for this four-day ANC NEC meeting. It really also dealt with the issues around the Government of National Unity, and I’d like us to start there. It is also looking into the role that the DA has played over the past couple of months – or be it a year – of the Government of National Unity. And when it comes to its decisions around the Government of National Unity and the role of the DA, do you think any drastic decisions will be taken by the ANC, or will it be treading carefully?

Patrick: Well, it’s a big four-day meeting, the first in four months. And oh, thanks for having me. I think the main thing is that the ANC knows how to tread water, and that means given that there are very different opinions within the organization about exactly how to handle this GNU, they’re going to still try to balance things and keep the status quo. And the really difficult period of February through April, where it looked like the budget wouldn’t pass, and then there were various conflicts about what kinds of changes would be made, and whether the 2% VAT increase could be modified, and what budget cuts would be necessary. That was a serious source of tension. And you’d expect another source, which is South Africa’s leadership of the G20, given two features: the critique of Israel’s genocide in Palestine and also the way we’re handling the BRICS and Donald Trump. These are the conflicts that should divide the ANC from the DA. But Ramaphosa is a master of keeping a big tent and keeping everybody inside.

SABC: And Professor, also looking at the issues around the US tariffs, that is a major issue right now for the ANC as it meets in this four-day engagement. At the same time, you would remember that Ramaphosa did lead that delegation to the United States a bit earlier on in the year. Would you say that you know – the efforts in which the President made to ensure that – you know trade relations are strengthened between the two, that achievement has been met?

Patrick: No, it’s been a disaster, hasn’t it? I mean, we all remember May 21, and there was a sort of admiration that President Ramaphosa could go in and not be riled up the way the Ukrainian leader, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, had been in February. And indeed, he came out of it – brought along three of the private sector and golfing companions that Trump seemed to be comfortable with. He brought John Steenhuisen, who made the case that Trump should ignore Julius Malema’s “kill the Boer, kill the farmer” chant. So they did all of those sorts of things.

But then Parks Tau, Trade Minister, offered to buy over $12 billion worth of US natural gas – or methane gas – which is very, very climate destructive, more so than CO₂, and also to import some of the chickens that are, you know, always a controversy given they undermine our own industry. And there are a few other aspects of what, uh, Parks Tau has offered.

But the things he couldn’t offer, would have been getting rid of affirmative action and changing some of the foreign policies. And I think that means that we can say anybody trying to deal with the US – you’re getting the 30% tariff. Our neighbors are getting 15%, and it looks like Eswatini, maybe because it imported some of those deportees, the criminals from the US – they’re only getting 10%.

One of the questions by a journalist at Minister Ramokgopa’s press conference was, “Hey, can’t we piggyback onto SADC, the other regional countries – even Zimbabwe – that got 15%?” I think people with gray hair will remember that was the strategy in the ‘70s and ‘80s. And there were “Made in Lesotho,” “Made in Swaziland,” “Made in Transkei” – all sorts of funny “Made in” that were actually made in South Africa but exported through our neighbors to avoid anti-apartheid sanctions. So that – that might be, in fact – I think that’s the only collective strategy that President Ramaphosa has tried.

And he hasn’t used the power of the BRICS, or the power of the G20, to get the other forces. He hasn’t tried to make an alliance with angry Europeans or the Canadians and Mexicans, who are also furious about the high tariffs they’ve just been hit with yesterday. So I think that’s the gap, and I’m hoping someone in the ANC is going to say, “Why don’t we act collectively? Where’s our Ubuntu with our neighbors in the region who get half the tariff rate? But also our allies all around the world?” And we could maybe even have an international conference and do something to really fight back in a collective way, because one by one, it’s pretty clear, Mbali, it’s not working.

SABC: And Prof, what are your prospects when it comes to the efforts now currently being made by the Ramaposa administration, you know, to find each other with the US just before these tariffs kick in? Do you think that there is some sort of hope to ensure that it can stay at 15% when it comes to the exporting of goods from South Africa to the US?

Patrick: Well, it’s so funny, because the most important single outreach has been by the disillusioned Afrikaners, of AfriForum and Solidarity. And these guys have gone to the States and said, “Ah, we’re under pressure.” And Elon Musk, you know, former best friend – not anymore – of Trump, and Trump himself, have said, “Oh, it must be a white genocide. Those poor Afrikaner farmers – we’ll, we’ll import them, give scores of them refugee status.”

And yet the major hit yesterday is against the citrus and the nuts – macadamia nuts especially – and the grapes, the wine, and those are largely under Afrikaner corporate management – ZZ2 and some of the other big agricultural corporates that are Afrikaner-controlled. I mean really, Trump looks absolutely idiotic by playing the game that he’s, you know, helping Afrikaners.

And I think the other approach that Ramaphosa took was to offer a game of golf and to try to bring, you know, Ernie Els and Retief Goosen, and to get the endorsement of Gary Player, and hope that Trump would come in November to a nice, warm South Africa and play golf. And that’s not working either. Last week, Trump said, “I’m not even going to come.” Interestingly, he said, “I will have the G20 next year in Mar-a-Lago.” Now, there’s a golf course there – maybe he’ll finally get around to that game of golf with his mates in the G20. But if you count them – well, it’s really only three. It’s Saudi Arabia’s Mohammed bin Salman, it’s Argentina’s Javier Milei, it’s Italy’s Georgia Meloni. And I think the rest of the G20 is very alienated.

And since they’re not going to play golf, maybe Ramaphosa should say, “Well, let’s have a vote. Should we vote the US off the G20 island?” I’d like to see that sort of spirit, which is to say maybe a G19 next year – because any good work being done is now just going to be thrown away. Trump’s already said for next year, hosting the G20 in Mar-a-Lago – he’s not going to deal with climate or public health or inequality and corporate taxation – all the things that we inherited in the G20 from Brazil. And now it’s just a dead end.

SABC: All right, Professor, thank you so much for your time. That’s Professor Patrick Bond. He’s the Director for the Center for Social Change in the Department of Sociology at the University of Johannesburg, there giving us his insights as the ANC meets in a four-day NEC meeting.

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