UAMY KUHLE: Oorhulumente kwihlabathi liphela kufuneka baqhubele phambili izohlwayo ngokuchasene norhulumente wobhukuqo-mbuso eHonduras.
Lawo ngamagqabantshintshi kaMongameli waseCosta Rica owaphumelela iNobel Peace Prize uOscar Arias, ozama ukulamla uthethathethwano phakathi komongameli ogxothiweyo waseHonduran kunye neenkokeli zobhukuqo-mbuso. Wayethetha kwingqungquthela yaseLatin America eCosta Rica ngosuku emva kwesigqibo seSebe lase-US ngoLwesibini sokurhoxisa ii-visa zamagosa amane e-Honduran, nangona i-US ingazange inqumle ngaphezu kwe-180 yezigidi zeedola kuncedo lwezoqoqosho.
Amagosa obhukuqo-mbuso eHonduran abonakalise ukukulungela ukuthethathethana. Bacaphula, "abakaqapheli ukuba uMongameli uZelaya kufuneka abuyiselwe," uArias uxelele iintatheli eCosta Rica ngoLwesithathu ebusuku. Ngeli xesha, uqhanqalazo lokuxhasa uZelaya luyaqhubeka kwikomkhulu laseHonduran kwaye kufutshane nomda weNicaragua.
Ewe, namhlanje, kwi Intando yeninzi Ngoku! usasazo olukhethekileyo, sikuphathele udliwano-ndlebe nomongameli ogxothiweyo waseHonduran, uManuel Zelaya, osemdeni weHonduras neNicaragua kwicala laseNicaragua. Ndathetha noMongameli uZelaya ngenjikalanga yangoLwesithathu, kwinyanga emva kokuba ebanjwe ngamajoni axhobileyo amkhuphela ngaphandle kwelizwe lakhe.
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [Iguqulelwe] Abongameli boMbindi Merika badibana ngoku eCosta Rico, kwaye bahlanganisa ukugwetywa kobhukuqo-mbuso. Kwaye ndicinga ukuba bazakuthatha amanyathelo angakumbi ngokuchasene neenkokheli zobhukuqo-mbuso kulo lonke elaseLatin America.
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] Ndithumele ummeli wam, onguSekela Mongameli, uAristides Mejia. Uza kube elapho endimele kwaye eqonda neenzame ezenziwa nguMongameli Obama ngokurhoxisa iimpepha-mvume zokundwendwela zeenkokeli zobhukuqo-mbuso. Luphawu oluhle olubhengeza iinkokeli zobhukuqo-mbuso njengeentshaba zoluntu.
UAMY KUHLE: Kuyaziwa ngokubanzi ukuba ubhukuqo-mbuso alunakuma ngaphandle kwenkxaso yase-US. Yintoni enye ocinga ukuba iUnited States kufuneka iyenze ngoku?
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] Ndiyaqonda ukuba uMongameli uBarack Obama kunye neSebe leSizwe bebengabandakanyekanga kubhukuqo-mbuso, kodwa amanye amacandelo azinzileyo e-United States, amacandelo ephiko lasekunene kakhulu, anomgangatho ophindwe kabini. Bathetha ngedemokhrasi ngaphakathi, nangaphandle bathetha ngobuzwilakhe.
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] Ewe, akanalo lonke ulwazi oluyimfuneko endinalo ngocinezelo elizweni elithwaxwa ngabantu. Kufuneka ndisondele ebantwini ukuze ndibanike inkxaso.
UAMY KUHLE: Ngaba uceba ukuya eHonduras kwakhona ngaphaya komda?
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] bendingayenza ngoku, ukuba bendikwazi. Kodwa amajoni agrogrisa ngokundibulala, ukuze andiqweqwedise. Andizange ndigwetywe okanye ndigwetywe. Oku yi ide facto ulawulo olungenanto kwaye alunamsebenzi.
UAMY KUHLE: Kuthekani ngentsapho yakho? Bazama ukufikelela kuwe eNicaragua. Injani imeko?
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] Usapho lwam luya kudlula kuphela kwiindawo zokuhlola zasemkhosini, ngaphandle kokwaphula imeko yongqingo, xa lubanika ukhuseleko lokhuseleko lwabo lokungena nokuphuma.
UAMY KUHLE: Abanaziqinisekiso okwangoku, Mnu.
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] Akunjalo kwaphela. Phezolo, kuluntu olukwiikhilomitha ezingamashumi amathandathu ukusuka kumda, i-El Paraiso, iikhilomitha ezilishumi elinesibini ukusuka apho, phezolo, baye kumatshini-umpu ehotele kwaye babakhwaza ngee-megaphone. Amapolisa, exhaswa ngumkhosi, azama ukugrogrisa intsapho yam.
UAMY KUHLE: Ngelixa uMongameli u-Obama ebize ukugxothwa kwakho ngobhukuqo-mbuso ekuqaleni, iSebe likaRhulumente liyala ukulibiza ngokuba lubhukuqo-mbuso ngoku. Impendulo yakho, Mnu.
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] Wonkโ ubani ehlabathiniโoorhulumente, imibutho yezizwe ngezizwe, onke amagqwetha neejaji ezisehlabathiniโbaye bathi isibakala sokubamba umongameli ngentsimbi yesi-5:00 kusasa singamlinganga, sidutyulwe ngezixhoboโkukubhukuqa umbuso. Akukho mntu uthandabuzayo ukuba yi-coup d'รฉtat leyo.
UAMY KUHLE: Ngaba kuyabaluleka ukuba urhulumente wase-US ubhengeze le nto ngokuvakalayo? Ngaba uyafuna ukuva uMongameli, uNobhala weLizwe, eyibiza ngokuba lubhukuqo?
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] Ewe, ukuba bajonga uhlalutyo, kufuneka babize inkundla yezizwe ngezizwe ukuba ibagwebe kwaye benze olu qhushululu lube netyala lokubulala abantu abaninzi, kuba i-coup d'รฉtat ithatha amandla kubantu ukuba babize umongameli wabo. Umongameli unokubizwa kuphela ngabantu, hayi yi-United States kwaye hayi ngemikhosi exhobileyo.
UAMY KUHLE: Ngaba uzamkele izivumelwano ze-Arias, izivumelwano zaseCosta Rica? Ufuna ukubona ntoni, ukuze ubuyele kwilizwe lakho?
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] Samkele isindululo sokuqala sikaMongameli uArias esasinamanqaku asixhenxe. Samkele i-OAS kunye neziphakamiso ze-UN. Iinkokeli zobhukuqo-mbuso azikhange ziyamkele.
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] Ndikulungele ukunikezela ityala nangaliphi na ixesha, kodwa hayi kubulungisa bukaMicheletti okanye kwezomkhosi iinkokeli zobhukuqo-mbuso. Ayibobulungisa obo. Leyo yinkqubo engekho mthethweni kwaye a ide facto Nye.
UAMY KUHLE: Ngaba uyafuna ukubona iinkokeli zobhukuqo-mbuso zizanywa?
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] Ewe kunjalo. Oko kufanele kube yinto eqhelekileyo kulo naliphi na ilizwe ukuze kuthintelwe ubhukuqo-mbuso. Ukuba ilungelo lokuphendula liqala ukusebenzisa izixhobo, kuya kubakho uvukelo. I-guerrilla iya kuphinda ivele. Kuya kubakho uvukelo njengendlela. Kwaye akukho mntu uya kukwazi ukulawula kula mazwe. Kukho igazi elishushu elibalekayo.
UAMY KUHLE: ULanny Davis, igqwetha likaMongameli Clinton, ligqwetha leHonduras isahluko seBhunga loShishino laseLatin America. Uthi umele uCamilo Atala kunye noJorge Canahuati. Ngoobani, njengoko ethetha ngokuchasene norhulumente wakho?
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] Ubhukuqo-mbuso lunabadlali abathathu: abo baluxhasayo ngabo-baluxhasa ngemali; ababhali abakrelekrele ngamaqumrhu ezopolitiko; kwanabo bayenzayo, abangabomkhosi. Abo ngabadlali abathathu kubhukuqo-mbuso.
UAMY KUHLE: Yaye ngoobaniโngoobani abagcinayoโngoobani ababonelela ngemali? Ngaba uthi ngaba bantu, i-Atala neCanahuati?
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] Kukho abanye kuluhlu. Kukho amaqela ezoqoqosho alishumi.
UAMY KUHLE: UVasquez Velasquez waqeqeshwa kwiSikolo saseMelika eFort Benning, eGeorgia. Ngoku kukho amajoni aseHonduran aqeqeshwayo apho. Ucinga ukuba uqeqesho kufuneka luyeke?
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] Ndicinga ukuba uqeqesho kufuneka lwenzeke ngokusekwe kwiinqobo zedemokhrasi, hayi ngokusekelwe kwiinqobo ze-coup d'รฉtats. Baninzi amajoni ahloniphekileyo nathanda ilizwe. Le mikhosi iye yangcatsha imikhosi exhobileyo kwaye yangcatsha abantu.
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] Ndicinga ukuba i-United States iza kuphulukana nempembelelo enkulu eLatin America ukuba ayilujiki ubhukuqo-mbuso. Ayizukwazi ukubeka umbono wayo ngedemokhrasi. Ayizukuthembeka phambi kwakhe nabani na.
UAMY KUHLE: Ucinga ukuba yeyiphi eyona nto ingatshatanga-esona senzo sibalulekileyo esinokwenziwa yi-United States ngoku?
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] I-United States izama ukusombulula ubhukuqo-mbuso ngoxolo nangendlela yozakuzo, kwaye ndiyavumelana nezo zithethe, kodwa ndivakalelwa kukuba imele yomelele, kuba xa kubhukuqwa umbuso, esi sisenzo ubugrogrisi bezizwe ngezizwe, obuchaphazela ukhuseleko kwi-hemisphere, kuba buvuselela umnqweno wemipu yomatshini ngokuchasene nengxoxo yedemokhrasi, kwaye ivelisa ubundlobongela. Kwaye kufuneka iyekwe ngamandla amakhulu.
UAMY KUHLE: Umongameli ogxothiweyo waseHonduran uManuela Zelaya, kusasazo lwethu lwesizwe kuphela. Sizakubuyela kule ngxoxo emva kwekhefu, apho umongameli ogxothiweyo waseHonduran eza kuthetha ngeenzame zakhe zokubuyela ekhaya kwaye ngubani osemva kobhukuqo-mbuso nokunye. Hlala nathi.
UAMY KUHLE: Mnu. Mongameli, abanye babona ubhukuqo-mbuso lwaseHonduras njengesicwangciso esitsha nxamnye noorhulumente abaqhubekayo abazimeleyo kwiLatin America. Ngaba ungalubeka ungquzulwano, umanyano, kumxholo omkhulu eLatin America ngoku?
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] Ndingavuya. Ubhukuqo-mbuso lwaseHonduras lwenziwa liqela loosomashishini abangamabhongo abafuna ukugcina amalungelo abo anxulumene neenkampani zamazwe ngamazwe ezinoonodoli bezobupolitika nomkhosi owonakeleyo. Ukuzama ukunika i-ideological tint-ekhohlo, ekunene, i-Chavism, i-US ekunene-injongo yokutshintsha ubuso be-coup kunye nokuphazamisa ingqalelo kwezinye iingxaki zeengcamango, xa ingxaki ngamalungelo ezoqoqosho kumacandelo afuna ukugcina. yona.
UAMY KUHLE: Ngaba uceba ukutyelela iWashington kwakhona?
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] Okoko ndimenyiwe, ndiya eWashington, kwi-OAS, okanye kwiZizwe eziManyeneyo, okanye kwiSebe leLizwe, kwiCongress, kwiSenethi. Kule nyanga, ndiye eWashington izihlandlo ezihlanu ukuya kusabela kwezi zimemo.
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] Hayi, bandimeme kanye, kwaye ndaya kuthetha noNobhala uClinton, kodwa khange bandimeme ukusukela ngoko.
UAMY KUHLE: Uxelele ntoni uHillary Clinton? Kwaye umxelele ntoni?
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] UNkskz. Clinton ucebise ulamlo luka-Arias kum, kwaye ndalwamkela. Ndaya kwezo ngxoxo. Kwaye ndicinga ukuba iUnited States ngoku inoxanduva olukhulu, kuba uthetha-thethwano aluzange luvelise iziphumo ezinqwenelekayo, kwaye banesidingo esikhulu sokusombulula le ngqungquthela kunamanye amazwe.
UAMY KUHLE: Ucinga ukuba urhulumente woqhanqalazo uzama ukuvele aphele ixesha kude kube lunyulo?
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] Hayi, ndicinga ukuba bafuna ukwenza unyulo lube semthethweni ngokubuya kwam, kodwa abagqatswa ababini abathatha inxaxheba baluvumile ubhukuqo-mbuso, baxhasa ubhukuqo-mbuso. Kwaye oko kufana nokugunyazisa ubhukuqo-mbuso ngabanye abantu. Ulonyulo kufuneka lubanjwe, kodwa ngendlela ebanzi nedemokhrasi, hayi ngenkqubo yobhukuqo-mbuso, kuba oko kuya kufana nokuphanga abagqatswa.
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] Ewe, kunjalo.
Kukho iyantlukwano kwimikhosi exhobileyo, kuluntu. Bafake ulawulo lwengcinezelo oluxhaswa zizixhobo kuphela. Xa imikhosi exhobileyo isusa inkxaso yayo kulawulo lobhukuqo-mbuso, emva kwemizuzu emihlanu kuya kufuneka ishiye amandla.
UAMY KUHLE: Ngaba ungathetha ngokubaluleka kwabaphumelele iBhaso loXolo lukaNobel kunye nendima yabo kwinkqubo yokuchasa ubhukuqo-mbusoโuPerez Esquivel, uRigoberta Menchu, kwakunye no-Oscar Arias?
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] UMongameli uArias wenza oko wayenako. Waqhubana neenkokeli zobhukuqo-mbuso ngeeglavu zabantwana, kodwa wenza oko wayenako, esabela kwimida yakhe. Kwaye ndinombulelo kuye ngento akwazileyo ukuyenza.
UAMY KUHLE: URigoberta Menchu, malunga neentsuku ezintathu kubhukuqo-mbuso, waya kunikela ingxelo ngemeko yamalungelo abantu eHonduras.
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [Iguqulelwe] Ewe, ebelugxeka ubhukuqo-mbuso kwaye ukwenze oko ngokuqinileyo. Ndicinga ukuba sisenzo esihle esi, kwaye sithetha kakuhle ngaye.
UAMY KUHLE: Ungathetha ngendima yeCawa kubhukuqo-mbuso, nceda?
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] IBandla lahluliwe. Ikhadinali, ekuphela kwekhadinali phambi kweVatican eHonduras, yenza iyelenqe neenkokeli zobhukuqo-mbuso. Wangcatsha abantu, amahlwempu. Wakhulula iingubo zakhe wanxiba iyunifomu yasemkhosini. Kwaye ngamazwi akhe, ngokwenene waba negalelo ekubulaweni kwabantu okwenzeka eHonduras.
UAMY KUHLE: Kuthekani ngokubethwa kwabefundisi, uAndres Tamayo noPadre Fausto Milla, ababekhokela uqhankqalazo olwaluchasene nobhukuqo-mbuso?
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] Yonke imibutho yezentlalo iye inkcaso, ngokuqinileyo, iintsuku ezingamashumi amathathu anesibini ngokuchasene nobhukuqo-mbuso. Bayeโnto leyo ithetha kakuhle ngokukwazi ukuxhathisa nokungavumi ukubhukuqa.
UAMY KUHLE: Mnu. Mongameli, ziziphi iingxelo onazo ngemeko yamalungelo abantu ngoku eHondurasโukubulala, ukubethwa, ukudubula kweebhombu?
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] Kukho amawaka amabanjwa. Kukho amangeno angekho mthethweni ngaphandle kwezigunyaziso zokugqogqa ezindlini. Amalungelo oluntu aye avinjwa. Kukho imeko yokungqingwa. Akukho nkululeko yokuhamba okanye yokupapasha. Ulutsha luyabulawa. Oku-kukho ukoyikeka ngendlela esingazange sikubone eHonduras kolu gqatso lwenkulungwane yamashumi amabini ananye.
UAMY KUHLE: Kunye nendima kaBilly Joya, owayengomnye weentloko zeBattalion 3-16, edume kakubi ngokuxhatshazwa kwamalungelo oluntu ekuqaleni kweminyaka yoo-1980? Indima yakhe namhlanje njengomncedisi wokhuseleko kuMicheletti?
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] Uneqela lezityholo atyholwa ngazo ezivulekele amalungelo oluntu. Bamtyhola ngokwenza amatyala amaninzi. Kwaye ngoku ungumcebisi kulawulo lombuso.
UAMY KUHLE: I-Battalion 3-16, uyayibona ivuselelwa?
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] Ngegama elahlukileyo, sele isebenza. Ulwaphulo-mthetho olwenziwayo kukungcungcuthekisa ukudala uloyiko phakathi kwabemi, kwaye loo nto ilawulwa nguMnu. Joya.
UAMY KUHLE: Awuzange uyibone intsapho yakho ngoku ixesha elingaphezu kwenyanga. Ngaba ungathetha ngokobuqu ngesiphumo soku, sokwahlukana kwakho?
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] Intlungu enkulu ebantwini nakusapho lwam, oluxhathisayo ecaleni kwabantu, lubandezeleka lonke uhlaselo losasazo oluninzi, abazithengisele kubhukuqo-mbuso. Umoya wabo uyakhiwa. Ingqondo yabo iyabunjwa, kwaye yingqondo enamandla kakhulu, eya kuphuma emva kolu qhushululu ukuze kungabikho mntu unokukwazi ukulimaza abantu kwaye abahlaze kwakhona.
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] Ndisebenzise inkululeko njengendlela yokucinga ehlonipha ipropati yabucala, utyalo-mali lwabucala, kwaye ihlonipha inkululeko yoluntu. Ndajikaโndaya kwinkululeko yentlalo-ntle, inkqubo yenkululeko exhasa isoshiyali, ukuze uqoqosho luncede abantu kungekhona abo bakumgangatho ophezulu kwezoqoqosho. Kwaye oku kwabacaphukisa abaphezulu kwezoqoqosho.
Bacinga ukuba kuyingozi kum ukulungelelanisa imibutho yezentlalo, yaye baceba ubhukuqo-mbuso.
UAMY KUHLE: UJohn Negroponte, owayengunozakuzaku eNicaraguaโeHonduras ekuqaleni kweminyaka yee-80, naye wasebenza neBattalion 3-16. Ngaba uyasibona isandla sakhe namhlanje, okanye abanye, abafana noOtto Reich waseUnited States?
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] U-Otto Reich sele enze iinkcazo malunga nayo. Kwakhona uRamon Carmona, ongumgxothwa waseVenezuela eUnited States. Sele bezityhile. Andikwazi ukuthetha ngabanye abantu, kodwa ndiyazi ukuba kukho ookhetshe abaninzi abasuka kumlindi omdala eUnited States kunye neCIA exhasa ubundlobongela kunye neengalo njengendlela yokusombulula iingxaki. Ndingumntu oxela iindlela zoxolo kunye nokungaxhasi, kwaye andikuxhasi ukunyanzelwa ukulungisa izinto, kodwa ingxoxo.
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] Abantu baseUnited States, ukhuseleko lwabo lunxulunyaniswa nokhuseleko, ukhuseleko lwehlabathi. Ukuba ubundlobongela kunye nokunyanzeliswa kuqhuma kwiyadi yangasemva yase-US, kuya kubachaphazela. Kufuneka baxhase uxolo nokungabikho kobundlobongela kwaye bangayixhasi i-coup d'รฉtats.
UAMY KUHLE: Kwaye abantu baseHonduras?
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] Ukuba bagcine ukuxhathisa kwabo bafuna ukuthatha amalungelo abo kwaye baqinise uloyiso lwabo lwentlalo. Oku kuya kunceda abantu ukuba bafumane ukuvuthwa, ukuze kungabikho mntu uya kubadelela, nto leyo eyenziwa ngurhulumente wobuqhophololo namhlanje.
UAMY KUHLE: Ukuba ubunokubuya, ukuba ungumongameli kwakhona eHonduras, ungabiza indibano yomgaqo-siseko ukuze utshintshe umgaqo-siseko?
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] Ndingabiza ingxoxo yesizwe. NdingumKristu. Ndiyakwazi ukuxolela. Ndicinga ukuba bonke abantu banelungelo lokulungisa nokuguquka baze baxolelwe. Abo benza izono bafanele basiwe ematyaleni, ukuze bagwetywe. Andingomgwebi. Ndingumongameli. Kwaye umsebenzi wam uhlala uncokola ukuze ufumane izisombululo kwiingxaki.
UAMY KUHLE: Ngaba uceba ukungenela umongameli kwakhona?
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] Andizange ndibe naloo njongo. IHonduras ayikuvumeli ukunyulwa kwakhona. Akukho ndlela ngokwasemthethweni, ngaphakathi komgaqo-siseko, yokwenza uhlaziyo. Oko kunokwenzeka kuphela kwixesha elizayo, kwaye oko akuyi kuxhomekeka kum, kwaye akunakwenzeka ngeli xesha, ngokusemthethweni.
UAMY KUHLE: Ngaba ungavuma ukunyuswa konyulo, njengoko kwaxoxwa eCosta Rica?
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] Andinangxaki nalonto. Ndilamkele icebo lika-Arias. Ziinkokeli zobhukuqo-mbuso ezingazange ziyamkele.
UAMY KUHLE: Ngaba kukho enye into ongathanda ukuyongeza, Mnu.
UMONGAMELI MANUEL ZELAYA: [iguqulelwe] Ukubulela kwaye ndivuyisane nawe, kuba kwiintsuku ezingamashumi amathathu ndiselubhacweni, lolona dliwano-ndlebe lubalaseleyo endikhe ndanalo. Imibulelo emininzi.
UAMY KUHLE: Umongameli ogxothiweyo waseHonduran uManuel Zelaya, kolu sasazo lwesizwe lukhethekileyo. Ungaya kwiwebhusayithi yethu ku-democracynow.org ngevidiyo okanye ipodcast yeaudio kunye nokukhutshelwa kodliwanondlebe lonke ngesiNgesi nangeSpanish. Enkosi kakhulu u-Andrรฉs Conteris weDemokhrasi Ngoku! en Espaรฑol. Kananjalo, sifuna ukubulela umguquleli wethu, uVictoria Furrio.
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