NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Njengoko siqhubeka nokuphawula ishumi leminyaka ukususela kuhlaselo lwe-11 kaSeptemba e-United States, namhlanje sichitha iyure kunye mit unjingalwazi, umchasi wezopolitiko owaziwayo kwihlabathi, isazi ngeelwimi kunye nombhali, uNoam Chomsky.
Kwiinyanga emva kwe-9/11, njengoko abalawuli bakaBush bahlasela i-Afghanistan kwaye balungiselela uhlaselo lwase-Iraq, uNoam Chomsky wakhupha incwadi encinci eyanikezela ngengxelo echasayo kwi-jingoism yelo xesha. Le ncwadi yayibizwa ngokulula 9-11, Uchungechunge oluqokelelweyo lodliwano-ndlebe uChomsky alunike kwiingcambu zokuhlaselwa kwe-9 / 11 kunye nomyalelo wakhe wokuphendula ngokufanelekileyo. Ngexesha apho abenzi bomthetho abavela kumacala omabini epaseji badibana kunye ukugunyazisa imfazwe engapheliyo, iChomsky yayililizwi elikhokelayo lokubiza ukujonga esipilini, ukucinga kwakhona ngezenzo zase-US kuMbindi Mpuma nakwihlabathi liphela. 9-11 yaqhubeka yaba yintengiso eyothusayo.
Kwiminyaka elishumi kamva, uNjingalwazi Chomsky usandula ukukhupha inguqulelo ehlaziyiweyo. Ibizwa 9-11: Ngaba Likho Elinye Icebo? "Ngaba yayikhona enye indlela?" ibhekisela ekubulaweni kwe-US u-Osama bin Laden kunye nokuqhubeka kukaChomsky akubonayo phakathi komgaqo-nkqubo weBush wangaphandle kunye noMongameli Obama.
Namhlanje, siza kuthetha noNoam Chomsky malunga neshumi leminyaka ukusukela ngo-9/11, ngexesha apho i-US isemfazweni kwiindawo ezininzi, ekhaya kwisiphithiphithi esiqhubekayo sezoqoqosho. UNoam Chomsky usandula ukubuya e-Iceland naseNorway. Uphuma nathi eBoston, eMassachussett. Kwaye ndidibene apha eNew York kolu dliwano ndlebe ngu Intando yeninzi Ngoku!umvelisi u-Aaron Matรฉ, oye wagubungela i-flotilla yoncedo oluya kuthintelwa eGaza eGrisi.
Wamkelekile, Aron, ukuba kunye nam kolu dliwano-ndlebe. Kuhle ukuba nawe kunye nathi.
UAaron MATร: Enkosi, Amy.
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Kwaye enkosi kakhulu, Noam Chomsky, ngokuba nathi kamsinya nje emva kokuba ubuyile kuhambo lwakho. Nowam, kutheni le nto singayiqalisi ngale ncwadi intsha? Ubhalile 9-11 Kwiminyaka eyi-10 eyadlulayo, yintoni eyaba yingxelo echasayo ngelo xesha. Yintoni oye waziva ibalulekile ukuba uyiqonde ngoko, kwaye ngoku, nayo Ngaba Lalikhona Enye Indlela?
NOAM CHOMSKY: Ewe, njengoko ukhankanyile, yayingeyoncwadi ngenene, yayiyingqokelela yodliwano-ndlebe, ezo sakwazi ukufumana imibhalo yazo. Abanye babo asikwazanga.
Kwakukho izinto ezininzi endandicinga ukuba kufuneka ziphawulwe. Ukuza kuthi ga ngoku, ndicinga ukuba abakaxabani. Kodwa enye yayiyeyokuba ibango lokuba i-US yayihlaselwa kuba, njengoko watshoyo umongameli, bayayithiya inkululeko yethu yayingenakuthetheleleka ngokupheleleyo. Babeyithiyile inkqubo yethu. Enyanisweni, bekuya kuba kuchane ngakumbi ukuthi siyayicaphukela inkululeko yabo. Kukho amaxwebhu amaninzi malunga naloo nto, ukubuyela emva koo-1950. Kungekudala emva kwentetho kamongameli, iPentagon yafunda oku, kwaye bagqiba, ewe, kungekhona ukuba bayayithiya inkululeko yethu, bayayithiya imigaqo-nkqubo yethu.
Kwaye njengoko nditshoyo, ubungqina malunga naloo nto bukhulu kakhulu, ukubuyela kwii-'50s. Ke, umzekelo, ngowe-1958, uMongameli Eisenhower, kumaxwebhu angaphakathi ekudala ekhululiwe, wabuzaโwaphakamisa umbuzo nabasebenzi bakhe malunga nokuba kutheni kukho iphulo lentiyo nxamnye nathi kwihlabathi lama-Arabhu. Wathi, kungekhona koorhulumente, kodwa ebantwini. Kwaye iBhunga leSizwe lezoKhuseleko, ibhodi enkulu yokucwangcisa, yayisandula ukukhupha isifundo malunga noku apho bathi bagqiba ukuba kukho uluvo kwilizwe lama-Arabhu ukuba iUnited States ixhasa ubuzwilakhe obunzima, obucinezelayo kwaye i-US ivala idemokhrasi kunye nophuhliso kunye nolawulo olunzima, olucinezelayo. ukuba siyenze kuba sifuna ukugcina ulawulo kwimithombo yabo yamandla. Kwaye yaqhubeka yathi le ichanekile, kwaye intle kakhulu into ebesifanele ukuba siyayenza, okoko nje abantu bezolile.
Kwaye ke iyaqhubeka. Andizukuhamba ngeenkcukacha, kodwa ke iyaqhubeka kude kube ngoku. Enyanisweni, kanye ngalo mzuzu, u-Obama uphumelele ukuhla nangaphantsi kweGeorge W. Bush ekuvunyweni kwilizwe lama-Arabhu. Incinci, ipesenti ezimbalwa. Kwaye yimigaqo-nkqubo, efanayo-imigaqo-nkqubo iyatshintsha, kodwa inobutshaba. Ngoko ke, into enye kukuba, kufuneka siqonde ukuba inkohlakalo ivela phi. Aziveli ndawo. Yaye ukuba sizimisele, sifanele sizame ukwenza okuthile ngesiseko sazo.
Ibinjalo-omnye umba, owawubalulekile, okanye ndicinga ukuba sinobungqina obuninzi malunga nalo ngoku, kukuba mhlawumbi kwakukho iindlela ezizezinye ezakhayo. Uhlaselo, uhlaselo kuhlaselo lwe-9/11 lwagxekwa kabuhlungu kulo lonke ilizwe lamaSilamsi, kodwa ngakumbi kwintshukumo yejihadi-uyazi, iifatwas ezivela kubefundisi abaphambili, ukugwetywa okuqatha. Ngekwaba-kunokwenzeka ukuba, ngoko, kwakunokwenzeka, ukwahlula intshukumo yejihadi, ukwahlula i-al-Qaeda, ukuhamba ukubamba abarhanelwa-kwaye, ewe, kwinkqubo yethu yobulungisa, ngokwethiyori, abantu. bangabarhanelwa ngaphandle kokubaโbade bagwetyweโngoko, ukubamba abarhanelwa, bakuphathe njengesenzo solwaphulo-mthetho, bazame ukusebenzisa into yokuba bekukhoโukuba bekukho inkcaso emandla koku naphakathi kweqela lamaJihadi. , kwaye uqhubele phambili kulwalamano olwakhayo ngakumbi kunye nehlabathi jikelele lamaMuslim-Arab.
Ewe, loo ndlela ayizange ithathwe. Indlela eyathathwayo yayikukuphuma ngogonyamelo, okokuqala e-Afghanistan, emva koko e-Iraq. Yayiluhlobo lokulandela incwadi yokudlala ka-Osama bin Laden. Ngokwenyani, oko kwachazwa ngokukhawuleza ngabantu abanjengoMichael Scheuer, o-akazange azichaze ngelo xesha, ukusukela oko-i-CIA-intloko ye-. CIA iqela labasebenzi elalilandelela u-bin Laden. Wagqiba kwelokuba iUnited States ngoyena gxa kaBin Laden. Siyanceda-injongo yakhe yayikukuhlanganisa ihlabathi lamaSilamsi malunga noloyiko lokuba i-United States yayihlasela i-Islam, yayiqhuba i-crusade, kufuneka bazikhusele. Kwaye sanceda. Uhlaselo lwase-Iraq, ngakumbi, lunike imbumbulu enkulu engalweni kubashishina beJihadi. Kwaxelwa kwangaphambili yi-US kunye ne-Bhritane yee-arhente zobuntlola-ekhutshiweyo ukusukela oko-ukuba uhlaselo lwase-Iraq luya kwandisa ukoyikeka, kwaye yenze njalo, ngokwesixhenxe kunyaka wokuqala, ngokutsho. MANDLA Amanani-nkcazo alingana norhulumente.
Ewe, nantso into eyenzekayo xa ugqabhuka ngobundlobongela ungakhange ufune ukuqonda ubunjani bento eyenzekayo kwaye ulandele ukhetho lwezozakuzo, ngoxolo, ngothethathethwano, kunye nokuphatha ulwaphulo-mthetho njengolwaphulo-mthetho. Xa kukho ulwaphulo-mthetho, uzama ukufumanisa abenzi bobubi, ubabambe, ubaziseโubazise ematyaleni anobulungisa. Ndiyathetha, oko-kunokwenzeka kakhulu ukuba oko bekunokwenziwa ngamanye amaxesha. Asazi. Bekukho unikezelo lwethutyana oluvela kwiTaliban ukuvumela ityala likaBin Laden. Akuzange kusukelwe. Kwakunjalo-i-US isanda kuyichitha: "Asithethi nawe." Kaloku, ngaba oko bekuya kuphumelela? Sinokuqikelela kuphela.
Ngokwenene ngeyenziwe nge-2 kaMeyi, xa ii-commandos zase-US, ii-Navy SEALs, zabamba u-bin Laden-engenakuzikhusela, wayenomfazi wakhe, engenazo iingalo-bambamba kwaye bambulala, emva koko bawulahla umzimba wakhe elwandle. Olo luhlobo lwesenzo esibotshelelwe nje ukwandisa intelekelelo, ukugxeka, ukuthandabuza-yahluke kakhulu kwinto eneneni ebekufanele ukuba yenziwe. Ngokwenyani, enye yeengcaphephe zezomthetho zaseBritane, i-civil libertarian, eyathi ngempazamo yalivuma eli nyathelo, nangona kunjalo yabonisa ukuba indlela eyenziwe ngayo yayilulwaphulo-mthetho kwaye iyingozi kwiziphumo zayo. Wayithelekisa nonyango lwezaphuli-mthetho zemfazwe zoyikekayo emva kweMfazwe yesibini yeHlabathi. Wabonisa ukuba urhulumente waseBritani wayefuna nje ukubulala iinkokeli zamaNazi, kodwa urhulumente waseUnited States, okanye uTruman, wagxininisa ukuba mazichotshelwe ityala. Balandela. Kwaye, eneneni, emva koko kwafika iimvavanyo zaseNuremberg, owaziyo, zineziphene zazo, kodwa ubuncinci zazisa esidlangalaleni uhlobo lolwaphulo-mthetho. Bakhokelele kwisigqibo esibalulekileyo somtshutshisi oyintloko, umtshutshisi oyintloko wase-US, uJustice Robert Jackson. Wazisa inkundla, ngamazwi acikozelayo, ukuba, njengoko eyibeka, sibanika aba bamangalelwa โindebe enetyhefu,โ kwaye ukuba sikhe sarhabula kuyo, ukuba sikhe senze ubugebenga obunjengobundlongondlongo, elinye lamatyala amakhulu. , ngoko ke simele sifumane isohlwayo esifanayo, kungenjalo, ngokusisiseko, ityala libubudenge. Lukhetho olo ekuye kwafuneka silwenze ukusukela ngoko. Hayi impendulo echanekileyo, ngokoluvo lwam.
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Undwendwe lwethu lweyure lu mit unjingalwazi uNoam Chomsky. Incwadi yakhe yamva nje ibizwa ngokuba 9-11: Ngaba Likho Elinye Icebo? Lo mbuzo wokugqibela, "Ngaba yayikhona enye indlela?," ebhekisa ekubulaweni kuka-Osama bin Laden. uAron?
UAaron MATร: Ewe, Nowam, ulukhankanye utshintsho kwintetho phakathi kweminyaka eli-10 eyadlulayo nanamhlanje. Kwaye eneneni, lo mba wezizathu ezisemva kwe9/11 uze phezolo kwingxoxo kamongameli weRiphabhlikhi. Ilungu leCongress uRon Paul waseTexas watsala i-boos kwisihlwele kunye nokukhalinyelwa kwabanye abaviwa kwi-podium xa wayegxeka umgaqo-nkqubo wangaphandle wase-US ekuxoxeni ngeengcambu ze-9 / 11.
REP. RON UPAWULOS: Sisengozini enkulu kuba sihlala kumazwe amaninzi. Sikumazwe ayi-130. Sineziseko ezingama-900 kwihlabathi liphela. Siza kuqhawuka. Injongo ye-al-Qaeda yayikukusihlasela, basimemele phaya, apho banokusijolisa khona. Kwaye bebeyenza. Banokuhlaselwa okungaphezulu ngokuchasene nathi kunye nomdla waseMelika ngenyanga kunokuba kwenzeke kuyo yonke iminyaka ngaphambi kwe-9/11. Kodwa silapho, siwuhluthile umhlaba wabo. Kwaye ukuba sicinga ukuba singayenza loo nto kwaye singaziphindezeli, siyadlala. Kufuneka sinyaniseke kwiziqu zethu. Besiya kwenza ntoni ukuba elinye ilizwe, itsho iChina, lenze kuthi le nto siyenzayo kuwo onke la mazwe alapha?
Ke, yonke le ngcamango yokuba ihlabathi lonke lamaSilamsi linoxanduva loku kwaye bayasihlasela kuba sikhululekile kwaye siphumelele, asiyonyani leyo. U-Osama bin Laden kunye ne-al-Qaeda ziye zacaca. Baye bachaza ngokucacileyo, kwaye babhala bathi sihlasele-sihlasele iMelika ngenxa yokuba uneziseko kumhlaba wethu ongcwele eSaudi Arabia, awuwaniki amaPalestina ukuphathwa ngokufanelekileyo, kwaye ubuqhumisa ibhombu-khange ndithi. , ndizama ukukunceda uqonde ukuba yintoni intsusa eyayibangele oku kuqhushumba. Kwangaxeshanye, besiqhushumbisa iibhombu kwaye sibulala amakhulu amawaka eIraqi kangangeminyaka eli-10. Ngaba uya kucaphuka? Ukuba awucaphuki, kukho ingxaki.
UAaron MATร: Lowo yayiliLungu leNkongolo yeRiphabhlikhi uRon Paul waseTexas ethetha phezolo kwingxoxo kamongameli weRiphabhlikhi. Noam Chomsky, impendulo yakho?
NOAM CHOMSKY: Ndicinga ukuba le nto ayithethileyo ayinakuphikisana ngokupheleleyo. Ungayifunda kumaxwebhu karhulumente. Ungayifumana kwi-polls. Mhlawumbi abantu abathandi ukuyiva, kodwa, njengoko benditshilo ngaphambili, ibuyela emva ngeminyaka yoo-1950. Ngokwenyani, kanye emva kwe-9/11, i Wall Street Journal, ngokunyanisekileyo, wenza uphando lwamaSilamsi anelungelo, ngamanye amaxesha abizwa ngokuba "ngamaSilamsi angamaSilamsi," abantu belizwe lamaSilamsi abangene ngokunzulu kwiprojekthi yehlabathi yase-US-amagqwetha, abalawuli beenkampani zamazwe ngamazwe njalo njalo, kungekhona abantu ngokubanzi. Kwaye yayifana kakhulu nale nto u-Eisenhower wayenexhala ngayo, kunye neBhunga leSizwe loKhuseleko, ngeminyaka yee-1950. Kwakukho inkcaso eninzi kumgaqo-nkqubo wase-US kulo mmandla, ngokuyinxenye ukuxhasa oozwilakhe abavala idemokhrasi kunye nophuhliso, kanye njengoko iBhunga leSizwe lezoKhuseleko lagqiba ngo-1958.
Kwakhona, ngelo xesha, ngo-2001, kwakukho izinto ezithe ngqo ngakumbi: ingqumbo eninzi malunga ne-US ixhasa indlela-ukuhlala kwe-Israeli kwi-Occupied Territories, ukuhlaliswa, ingcinezelo ekrakra yamaPalestina, kunye nento ethi. ayixoxwa kakhulu apha kodwa kwakuthetha okuninzi apho-kwaye khumbula, aba ngamaSilamsi anelungelo, iinkokeli ze-abo baqhuba, baphumeze imigaqo-nkqubo yezoqoqosho nentlalontle yase-US kulo mmandla. Enye into, ngaphandle kwe-Israel-inkxaso yolwaphulo-mthetho lwase-Israel, yayizigwebo ezichasene ne-Iraq. Lo ibingu 2001, khumbula. Izohlwayo ezichasene ne-Iraq zazinoburhalarhume kwaye ziyonakalisa. Babulala amakhulu amawaka abantu. Bobabini oonozakuzaku bezizwe ngezizwe ababelawula inkqubo ye-Oil-for-Food, oonozakuzaku abaziwayo bezizwe ngezizweโuDenis Halliday, uHans von Sponeck, ngokulandelelanaโbobabini barhoxa ngenxa yoqhankqalazo ngenxa yokuba bezigqala ezo zohlwayo njengembubhiso. Babesenza uhlobo lokubulawa kwabantu abaninzi baseIraq. Babesomeleza uSaddam Hussein. Babenyanzela abantu ukuba bathembele kuye ukuze nje baphile. Kwaye la yayingamatyala amakhulu ngeminyaka yoo-1990. Kwaye amaSilamsi anelungelo, amaSilamsi e-monied, e-Saudi Arabia, kwenye indawo, ayechasene ngokukrakra nale nto, kungekhona ngenxa yokuba bayayithiya inkululeko yethu, kuba abayithandi imigaqo-nkqubo ebulalayo kunye nenkohlakalo.
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