Political scientist and historian Norman Finkelstein joins this special edition of UNAPOLOGETIC that marks two years since the October 7 Hamas-led attack and Israel’s devastating retaliation against Gaza, which the majority of genocide scholars around the world have labelled a genocide. In this nearly three-hour conversation, we ask whether Hamas regrets its attack on October 7th, probe the realities of Trump’s latest Gaza plan – and question if it is just another ruse to create cover for more of Netanyahu’s atrocities. and entrench his government’s plans to make Gaza uninhabitable for Palestinians. Norman laments the depth of Israel’s brutality over the past 24 months and the roles of Israeli society, Arab states, Western governments, and the media in enabling it. He also reflects on the collapse of international law and shifting global politics and discusses whether recognition of Palestine makes any difference, where the genocide leaves the future of the Palestinian liberation struggle, and why the horrors of Gaza defy facts alone.

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