PAUL JAY: Takulandirani ku Real News Network ndikulandilidwa ku Reality Asserts Yokha. Ndine Paul Jay. Nthawi zambiri pa Reality Asserts Yokha timayamba ndi mtundu wa mbiri ya mlendo wathu. Koma tipita mosiyana pang'ono nthawi ino. Tidzathana ndi nkhani zina zambiri komanso kusanthula kwathu chifukwa nkhanizo zikungofuna kuti tikambirane.
Ndipo zomwe tikambirana ndi momwe United States imawonera Iran. Ngati pali chinthu chimodzi chomwe mfundo zakunja za kayendetsedwe ka Trump zakhala zikuwonekera bwino, ndipo pakhala kusatsimikizika kwakukulu pa zomwe mfundo zake zakunja zilili, chinthu chimodzi chomwe zadziwika bwino ndi chidani chake ku Iran. Ndipo tiyesetsa kumvetsetsa chifukwa chake. Chifukwa sikungoyang'anira a Trump, kunali kofanana kwambiri ndi maulamuliro onse aku America kuyambira ku Iran Revolution.
Chifukwa chake kubwera nafe kuti tikambirane izi, makamaka lero gawo lathu loyamba chifukwa usikuuno, ndipo pamene tikulemba izi, Purezidenti Trump anenapo za Afghanistan ... Ndiye tiyamba, chifukwa chake, tiyamba. ndi ubale wa U.S.-Irani malinga ndi mfundo zaku America ku Afghanistan. Tsopano kulowa nafe mu studio ndi Trita Parsi. Trita ndi woyambitsa komanso Purezidenti wa National Iranian American Council. Iye ndi mlembi wa mabuku omwe adapambana mphoto, "A Single Roll of the Dice-Obama's Diplomacy with Iran," ndi "Treacher Alliance-The Secret Dealings of Israel, Iran, ndi U.S." Buku lake laposachedwa kwambiri ndi, "Losing an Enemy-Obama, Iran, and the Triumph of Diplomacy." Zikomo pobwera nafe.
TRITA PARSI: Zikomo kwambiri chifukwa chokhala nane.
PAUL JAY: Dzulo, Washington Post inali ndi mkonzi, ndipo ngakhale idazindikira kuti mgwirizano wa nyukiliya ukugwira ntchito ndipo Iran ikutsatira mbali yake ya mgwirizanowo, imadzudzula mwamphamvu kayendetsedwe ka Trump, modabwitsa, chifukwa chosatsutsana ndi Iran. Chikoka cha Irani ku Iraq, chikoka cha Irani ku Afghanistan, komanso kulola ogwirizana nawo kumenya nkhondo yopanda ntchito ku Yemen. Makamaka, kuti olamulira a Trump sakhala ankhanza mokwanira. Ndangowerenga ndime yoyamba yachigawo cha Washington Post:
"Ngakhale kuti anthu amalankhula mawu okwiya, olamulira a Trump sakuchita pang'ono kuthana ndi nkhanza zaku Iran. Ku Syria, njira yake yolimbana ndi Russia yatsegula njira kuti asitikali aku Tehran akhazikitse ulamuliro panjira pakati pa Damasiko ndi Baghdad. Ku Afghanistan, Iran ikupanga bwino kwambiri ngakhale Purezidenti Trump akukana dongosolo lolimbikitsa thandizo la US ku boma la Afghanistan. "
Chabwino, phatikizani izi ndi New York Times, yomwe posachedwapa yakhala ndi nkhani zingapo, choyamba, kulamulira kwa Irani ku Iraq, ndiyeno ikukamba za aku Irani tsopano akuthandiza zigawo za Taliban ndikuwaphunzitsa ndi kuwaphunzitsa. Ng'oma zomwe zimachokera ku New York Times ndi Washington Post, chodabwitsa kwambiri, ndizoopsa kwambiri kuposa zomwe zakhala zikuchokera ku kayendetsedwe ka Trump. Mukupanga chiyani pa zonsezi?
TRITA PARSI: Chabwino, mโbuku limene ndimafotokoza ndi kufotokoza kuti pamapeto pake, mgwirizano wa zida za nyukiliya umenewu unali pafupi kwambiri kuposa nkhani ya nyukiliya chabe. Pamapeto pake, zinali zokhuza ngati dziko la United States lingazindikire Iran ngati gawo lalikulu m'derali, kapena ngati ipitilize mfundo yopitilira zaka khumi ndi zitatu yodzipatula komanso kukhala ndi Iran. Mgwirizano wa nyukiliya makamaka, chifukwa chokhala ndi mgwirizano ndi Tehran, wathetsa izi. Ndipo olamulira a Obama anali akugwira ntchito mwakhama kuti awonetsetse kuti Iran ili ndi mpando patebulo pamene panali zokambirana za Syria, ndi zina. Kutsutsa kwenikweni komwe kunabwera kuchokera ku Saudis komanso Israelis makamaka chifukwa sikuti ndi mgwirizano womwewo, osati tsatanetsatane wa mgwirizano, koma zotsatira za geo-ndale za United States sizinakhalenso mdani woopsa wa Iran. Koma pozindikira kuti kaya timakonda kapena ayi, Iran ndi mphamvu yayikulu mderali ndipo muyenera kuthana nayo ndipo muyenera kuzindikira kuti ilinso ndi chidwi chovomerezeka.
Tsopano tikuwona zolemba zonsezi ndi ndemanga zikutuluka kuti moona mtima ndizowona pang'ono za zotsutsa zina zomwe zinalipo motsutsana ndi mgwirizanowu. Chifukwa zomwe akuwopa komanso zomwe akutsutsa kuti United States iyenera kukhala yaukali kwambiri ndikuti chifukwa chakuti pali mgwirizano wa nyukiliya sizikutanthauza kuti United States sayenera kukumana ndi Iran ku Syria, sayenera kukumana ndi Iran. Yemen, kapena Iraq.
Ndiye tikuwona kuti zikubwera pachimake cha zomwe US โโali nayo mderali? Kodi iyenera kupitiriza kukhala ndi malo olimba kwambiri m'dera lomwe lidzakhala mbali ina ya Iran ndi kumbali ya Saudi Arabia ndi Israel, omwe akhala opindulitsa kwambiri ku US hegemony m'mbuyomu? Kapena ikuyenera kutsatira mfundo yomwe imazindikira kuti pali zolakwa zambiri ku Middle East ndipo maulamuliro onse akuluwa akuyenera kupeza njira yolumikizirana ndikuthetsa kusamvana kwawo m'malo moganiza kuti atha kugwiritsa ntchito United States ngati projekiti kuti apeze mapointi pamipikisano yawo yamkati?
Ndicho chimene izi ziri kwenikweni pa nthawi ino. Ndipo tikuwona kuti anthu ena mwina sanazindikire zotsatira za mgwirizanowu, ndipo tsopano ali ochulukirapo, mwina wina anganene, kutengera zinthu zina zomwe zinali zosapeลตeka zomwe zingabwere ndi mgwirizanowu.
PAUL JAY: Chifukwa cha mawu a Trump omwe akubwera, omwe tikuganiza kuti athandizira gulu lina lankhondo, akhala akukankha asitikali owonjezera a 4,000 kupita ku Afghanistan, pali nkhani zina zankhondo zaku America, Pentagon ikufuna ngakhale Kuwonjezeka kwakukulu kwa asitikali ku Afghanistan, tiyeni tikambirane izi. Tsopano nyuzipepala ya New York Times masabata angapo apitawo inali ndi nkhani yomwe inalankhula za Iran mwachiwonekere, malinga ndi New York Times, ndi maphunziro a Taliban, omwe ali osagwirizana chifukwa cha kugawanika kwa Sunni-Shia. Koma molingana ndi nkhaniyi, ngakhale zili choncho, Iran tsopano ikugwiritsa ntchito zigawo za Taliban kufooketsa malo aku America ku Afghanistan ndipo, monga idanenera m'nkhani ya Washington Post, imapanga mtundu wamtunda waku Iran ku Afghanistan. Mukupanga chiyani pa izi?
TRITA PARSI: Chabwino, ndikuganiza ngati tilankhula za Afghanistan makamaka, tiyenera kukumbukira kuti United States ndi Iran zimagwira ntchito limodzi kuti zigonjetse a Taliban. Anthu aku Irani adatsutsana ndi a Taliban ngakhale nthawi zina ndalama zaku US zimapita kuzinthu kumeneko. Ndipo aku Iran adakwiya kwambiri zaka zingapo zapitazo pomwe US โโidafewetsa malingaliro ake pa a Taliban ndikutsutsa kuti a Taliban akuyenera kukambirana nawo. Anthu aku Iran adatsutsa kwambiri izi.
Ndikuganiza zomwe zachitika ku Iraq ndi Afghanistan zomwe zikufotokoza kusiyana kwina kwa Iranian posture vis-ร -vis Afghanistan poyerekeza ndi Iraq ndikuti ku Iraq aku Iran adachita bwino kukakamiza boma la Iraq kuti lisavomereze mgwirizano wankhondo. ndi United States, SOFA, yomwe ingathandize United States kukhala ndi asilikali ake ku Iraq ndikukhala pamwamba pa malamulo a Iraq. Pomwe SOFA sinasainidwe, olamulira a Obama adawona kuti zingakhale zowopsa kukhala ndi gulu lankhondo lalikulu kumeneko.
Ku Afghanistan, aku Iran adalephera, ndipo boma la Afghanistan lidasaina mgwirizano wamagulu ankhondo. Zotsatira zake, ndizosavuta kuti United States ikhale ndi asitikali kumeneko, otsika mtengo kwambiri malinga ndi ndale ndi zamalamulo, komanso kukhala ndi maziko okhazikika kumeneko. Makamaka chifukwa cha udani waukulu pakati pa United States ndi Iran, womwe pansi pa Trump wakula, aku Iran sakufuna kukhala ndi asilikali a ku America kulikonse pafupi ndi malire awo. Chifukwa chake sizingakhale zosemphana ndi machitidwe akale kuti anthu aku Irani angatsatire ndondomeko ku Afghanistan zomwe zingasokoneze udindo wa US kumeneko chifukwa sakufuna kuti United States ikhale ndi mphamvu yomenyana ndi Iran kuchokera ku Afghanistan kapena ku Iraq.
PAUL JAY: Ndikutanthauza, tiyeni tisaiwale ... Brzezinski ndi Carter ndondomeko yoyamwa anthu aku Russia ku zomwe zimayenera kukhala Vietnam ya Russia. Ndikuganiza kuti zinali choncho. Koma a Taliban kudzera mu Pakistani ISI ndi CIA anali cholengedwa cha mfundo zaku America.
TRITA PARSI: Ronald Reagan anawatcha ngwazi.
PAUL JAY: Ndipo ichi ndi chiwopsezo chachikulu ku Iran kukhala ndi mtundu woterewu wamphamvu za Shia ku Afghanistan.
TRITA PARSI: Koma zomwe zikuwonetsa ndikuti mpaka mikangano ya US-Iran ikupita kunjira yoyipa, kulikonse komwe awiriwa akathera m'bwalo lomwelo zipangitsa kuti mabwalowa akhale madera opikisana komanso mikangano pakati pawo. United States ndi Iran. Sizikanakhala choncho, ngati olamulira a Trump akanatsatira mfundo ina ndipo ngati njira yankhondo yolimbana ndi Iran idachotsedwadi pagome, ndikukayikira kuti tikadawona momwe aku Iran aku Afghanistan akusiyana kwambiri. taziwona kwina pamene U.S. ndi Iran adagwirizana.
Koma pamene tikupita ku njira yolakwika, mwatsoka, ndikuganiza kuti ndizotheka kuti aku Iran akhazikitse kusiyana kwamalingaliro ndikuyesetsa kuti awonetsetse kuti US sikhala m'malo momwe ingathere. kulimbana ndi Iran kuchokera kumadera omwe ali pafupi kwambiri ndi malire ake.
PAUL JAY: Zomwe zikuphatikiza Iraq. 'Chifukwa ndi gawo la New York Times' lonena za momwe Iran ikulimbikitsira ku Iraq ndi zina zotero, koma ndikuganiza pazifukwa zomwezo. M'malo mwake, tatchulapo mawu a Trump kangapo. Adalankhula ku CIA atangokhazikitsidwa kumene komwe amachita nthabwala za momwe America ikadasungira mafuta ku Iraq. Kenako amaseka CIA: Ndikuganiza kuti mupeza mwayi wina kuti mukatenge mafutawo. Ndikutanthauza, kulankhula momasuka za kubwerera ku Iraq kukalanda mafuta. Ngati iwo ali otsimikiza za izo, muyenera kubwerera mu manambala ena. Koma makamaka zikuwoneka kuti akufuna kuthana ndi chikoka cha Iran ku Iraq.
TRITA PARSI: Chifukwa chake maiko ena ambiri mderali akhumudwa kwambiri ndi United States chifukwa amakhulupirira kuti popita ku Iraq poyambirira ndikutulutsa a Taliban, United States ili ndi mlandu womasula Iran chifukwa izi ndi mphamvu ziwiri zomwe kwenikweni zinali kugwirizanitsa Iran.
PAUL JAY: Zomwe anthu ambiri omwe ankadziwa derali adanena asanaukire kuti ndi zomwe zichitike.
TRITA PARSI: Anatero. Ndipo kwenikweni a Saudis anali omveka bwino pochenjeza akuluakulu a George W. Bush kuti ngati mupita ku Iraq, mudzakhala mukuwonjezera mphamvu za Iran. Mkulu wina wa ku Saudi anandiuza mokwiya kwambiri kuti Amereka anapereka Iraq ku Iran mโmbale yasiliva.
Chowonadi ndi chakuti chifukwa kulephera kwa US ku Iraq, chopandacho chinapangidwa. Ndipo maphwando osiyanasiyana, kuphatikiza ma Saudis, akhala akulimbirana ulamuliro ndi chikoka kumeneko. Ndipo makamaka onse adataya anthu aku Irani omwe adachita bwino kwambiri, anzeru kwambiri, komanso makamaka bwino kugwiritsa ntchito zolakwa za mbali inayo. Sikuti iwo anali ndi njira yochenjera, kungoti njira yawo sinali yosakwanira ngati njira ya ena. Ndipo chifukwa chake akhala akupambana.
Pamapeto pake, ndikuganiza kuti zikhala zovuta kuti aku Irani akhalebe ndi mphamvu ku Iraq. Iran ndi Iraq mbiri yakale, chifukwa cha zochitika zenizeni pazandale, nthawi zambiri akhala akupikisana osati ogwirizana. Koma mantha omwe tikuwona pakali pano pa lingaliro lakuti Iran ikukhala ndi mphamvu m'madera osiyanasiyanawa ikubwereranso ku funso lomwe silikambidwa kawirikawiri ku Washington, D.C.: Kodi United States ikufuna kukhala hegemon ku Middle East? Kum'mawa? Kodi zimenezo zimangotengedwa mopepuka? Ndipo ngati ndi choncho, ngati kwenikweni akufuna momveka bwino kukhala hegemon ku Middle East, mtengo wake ndi wotani ndipo phindu lake ndi lotani? Kodi kusanthula mtengo ndi phindu lanji kumeneko?
Boma la Obama linali lomveka bwino pankhaniyi. Amakhulupirira kuti Middle East idataya kufunikira kwakukulu pazifukwa zingapo kuphatikizanso kuti mtengo wamafuta kumeneko udatsika chifukwa cha US kutha kupanga zambiri kudzera mumafuta a shale, ndi zina zambiri. . Kuphatikiza apo, oyang'anira pansi pa Obama adawona kuti vuto lenileni ku United States silingachokere kudziko lililonse kapena kuchoka ku Middle East, koma limachokera ku China ndikuti United States ikukulirakulira ku Middle East ndikudzipereka. ku East Asia. Iwo ankafuna kupita ku Asia.
Chifukwa chake adauza Saudis momveka bwino, mwachitsanzo Purezidenti adatero, kuti United States ikuyesera kuthetsa mikangano yake ndi Iran, ndipo adauza a Saudis kuti: Nanunso muyenera kutero. Koma udindo wa Saudi unali, "Ayi, tikufuna kuti mukhale hegemon ku Middle East. Inde, mudzalipira kudzera mwa magazi anu ndi chuma chanu, koma tidzaphimba ena mwa chuma chimenecho. Koma tikufuna kukhala pansi pa ambulera yaku America ya hegemonic. โ Ndipo apa ndipamene tikuwona bwino kuti pali kusiyana kwa chidwi kuchokera ku dziko lonse lapansi pakati pa United States ndi ena mwa ogwirizana nawo m'derali.
PAUL JAY: Magawo a United States.
TRITA PARSI: Ndendende.
PAUL JAY: Magawo akukhazikitsa mfundo zakunja.
TRITA PARSI: Mukulondola. Mukulondola ndithu.
PAUL JAY: Zigawo za capital. Chifukwa makampani opangira mafuta, ndikuganiza ndi anthu omwe ndawafunsa ndikulankhula nawo, akufuna sewero lina ku Iraq chifukwa pali zinthu zambiri zotsekemera zomwe sizikugwiritsidwa ntchito ku Iraq.
TRITA PARSI: Mosakayikira, mukulondola ponena kuti pali magawo omwe akufuna izi ndipo pali magawo omwe akufunabe kupita-
PAUL JAY: Koma kusewera kwanthawi yayitali kukukhudza China. Koma kusewera kwanthawi yayitali, ndipo zikuwoneka kuti olamulira a Trump akuyang'ana, ali kumbali ya mphamvu. Ndipo mbali ya mphamvu ndi: Bwererani kukatenga mafuta ku Iraq. Ndilo mgwirizano ndi Saudis ndipo ilinso ndi mbali yake yamalingaliro, malingaliro. Steve Bannon adafotokoza bwino kwambiri.
Koma zikuwoneka ngati Trump amakhulupirira izi. 'Chifukwa nkhondoyi yolimbana ndi uchigawenga wa Chisilamu, chizoloลตezi cha Chisilamu, ndizolakwika chifukwa simutero ...
TRITA PARSI: Ndithu.
PAUL JAY: Izi zonse ndi zotsutsana ndi Iran zomwe zavala ngati uchigawenga wotsutsana ndi Chisilamu. Choncho filosofi yonse -
TRITA PARSI: Koma gawo lake lomwe silinadziwikebe kwa ine ngakhale ... Ndikugwirizana ndi zomwe mukunena kuti zinthu zingapo zimafunabe ulemuwo. Chifukwa chiyani akufunira sizikudziwika bwino kwa ine. Ngati ndi chifukwa cha mafuta -
PAUL JAY: Ndalama zanthawi yochepa.
TRITA PARSI: Chabwino, ndipamene kusanthula mtengo wa phindu sikumveka bwino.
PAUL JAY: Chabwino, zimatengera ngati mukulankhula za chidwi cha United States kapena chidwi chochepa cha gawo lopapatiza la capital.
TRITA PARSI: Ndipo zokonda zocheperako zomwe mwina zingakhale zopapatiza monga momwe a Trump amapangira ndalama za Trump, mwina inde. Chifukwa-
PAUL JAY: Kapena, Exxon ya Tillerson kapena ...
TRITA PARSI: Ndithu.
PAUL JAY: Makamaka ngati muli ndi mafuta chifukwa muli ndi-
TRITA PARSI: Koma sindikuganiza kuti ndi iwo okha. Zomwe tili nazo ndi anthu a Pentagon kuti popanda kugwirizana ndi mitundu ina ya zokonda izi zikuwoneka kuti zili ndi njira ndi tanthawuzo la chidwi chomwe ziribe kanthu momwe Middle East ilili yamtengo wapatali pakali pano, sititero '. t kubwereraโsizomwe timachita.
PAUL JAY: Ndikugwirizana nazo. Ndicho chachikulu ... Sitikutaya.
TRITA PARSI: Sitikutaya. Sitingobwerera mmbuyo. Ndipo ziribe kanthu kuti kusanthula kwa mtengo wa phindu kuli koipa bwanji, iwo samangofuna kutero. Pomwe ndikuganiza kuti kuwerengera kumbali ya Obama kunali, ndikuti izi sizikupanganso zomveka. Tikuyang'anitsitsa mpira posayang'ana ku Asia, ndipo tikuyenera kupita kumeneko. Ndipo Iran inali gawo lovuta kwambiri chifukwa munthu akhoza kutsutsa Obama pazinthu zingapo zosiyana.
Chitsutso chimodzi chomwe akamba amapereka ndikuti sanapite ku Syria, ndipo adalonjeza kutero kapena anali ndi mzere wofiira. Koma Syria siinali yowopsa ngati momwe Obama amawonera m'lingaliro lotha kuwakokera kunkhondo ina yosagonjetseka yaku Middle East monga Iran ndi pulogalamu yanyukiliya. Kuopa kuti pulogalamu ya nyukiliya ingayambitse nkhondo yomwe ingakokere United States mmenemo, zomwe pulezidenti sankakhulupirira kuti zingakhale ndi yankho lankhondo kwa nthawi yaitali, zinali zazikulu kwambiri. Ndipo ndichifukwa chake olamulira a Obama adamaliza kugwiritsa ntchito ndalama zambiri zandale poyesa kupeza mgwirizano pankhani yanyukiliya. Chifukwa chinali gawo lofunikira pakuyesa kuwonetsetsa kuti pivot yopita ku Asia igwire ntchito.
PAUL JAY: Chabwino, ndizosangalatsa mu gawo la Washington Post lomwe ndidatchulapo kale, likuteteza mgwirizanowo ndipo likuti anthu aku Irani akutsatira mgwirizanowu, ndipo amadzudzula olamulira a Trump pomwe akuti sikuli mwankhanza mokwanira ku Afghanistan, Iraq ndi zina zotero, imawadzudzula chifukwa chofuna kusokoneza mgwirizano wa nyukiliya. Choncho ngakhale agawenga amateteza mgwirizanowu.
TRITA PARSI: Ndipo apa ndipamene pali kusagwirizana m'malingaliro anga. Pali chikhulupiliro kuti mutha kusunga mgwirizano ndikukhala wankhanza kwambiri pazinthu zina. Mgwirizanowu, wopangidwa kapena ayi, umakakamiza mbali zonse ziwiri. Zimakakamiza aku Iran pazinthu zomwe si za nyukiliya, komanso zimakakamizanso United States. Lingaliro loti dziko la United States likhoza kutengera mfundo zambiri, zachinyengo kwambiri m'derali ndikukankhira kumbuyo motsutsana ndi Iran apa ndi apo ndikusungabe mgwirizano wa nyukiliya, sindikuganiza kuti ndizotheka. Ndikuganiza kuti nditha kuonetsetsa kuti mgwirizanowu utenga zaka zosachepera 15, payenera kukhala njira yabwino mu ubale wa US-Iran wonse.
Koma nachi chinthu, sizikutanthauza kuti United States iyenera kuvomereza mfundo zina za Iran m'derali. Mwinamwake pali madera omwe payenera kukhala pushback, ndi zina zotero. Koma tsopano tili ndi ndondomeko yomwe tingathe kuona zomwe zili zogwira mtima ndi anthu aku Irani ndi zomwe sizili. Tilibe chitsanzo china chomwe United States yatha kuchita nawo ndondomeko yomwe inasintha kwambiri ndondomeko ya Iran kupatulapo zokambirana za nyukiliya.
Tili ndi mlandu wopambana ndipo olamulira a Trump pakali pano, komanso ambiri omwe amathirira ndemanga kaya ndi New York Times kapena Washington Post, akulimbikitsa njira yosiyana kwambiri. Njira yolimbana ndi kukakamizidwa komwe sikunagwirepo ntchito kulikonse ndi aku Irani. Ichi ndi chinsinsi kwa ine. Ngati tikufunadi kuwona kusintha kwa mfundo za Iran m'derali-kaya ku Syria, Iraq, kapena Yemen-pali njira yokambirana yomwe ingatheke. Koma zimafunikira china chake chomwe ndikuganiza kuti ndi anthu ochepa ku Washington omwe ali okonzeka kuvomereza.
Kuti anthu aku Iran asinthe mfundo zawo ngati mmene anachitira pankhani ya zida za nyukiliya, dziko la United States likufunikanso kusintha mfundo zake ngati mmene linachitira pa nkhani ya zida za nyukiliya. Ziyenera kukhala kugwirizana. Izo ziyenera kukhala kupereka ndi kutenga. Koma Washington nthawi zambiri sakhala ndi malingaliro osokonekera.
PAUL JAY: Ndikuganiza kuti zomwe zimachitika ndikuti gawo la kukhazikitsidwa kwa mfundo zakunja ndi likulu lomwe lidayimiridwa bwino kwambiri ndi Dick Cheney, kusewera kwawo ndi kwakanthawi kochepa, kumakhudza mafuta oyaka, ndizovuta zankhondo ndi mafakitale, ndipo sinthawi yayitali- termic systemic mphamvu yapadziko lonse lapansi. Chifukwa mukadakhala ndi masomphenyawo, simukadaukira Iraq. M'malo mwake, a Obama ananena kuti, ndikukhulupirira chisankho chapurezidenti woyamba, adati ... Wina adafunsidwa: Kodi mungavomereze Iran ngati mphamvu yachigawo? Ndipo adati: "Chabwino, nthawi yatsala pang'ono kufunsa funsoli chifukwa ngati simukufuna kuvomereza Iran ngati mphamvu yachigawo, simukadaukira Iraq. Hatchiyo yachoka mโnkhokwe. Kotero iye amavomereza izo.
TRITA PARSI: Koma tiyeni tiyime pamenepo. Koma tiyeni tingoyima pamenepo. Kodi limenelo lingakhale funso bwanji? Kodi ndinu okonzeka kuvomereza Iran ngati mphamvu yachigawo?
PAUL JAY: Pamene tikulankhula ndi hegemon yapadziko lonse lapansi, sichoncho?
TRITA PARSI: Tikukamba za ... Iran ndi chimphona m'derali. Sipanakhalepo dongosolo lokhazikika, lokhazikika m'derali lomwe silinaphatikizepo iwo kapena dziko lina lililonse la kukula kwake. Izi timaziwona muzochitika za ku Ulaya. Potsirizira pake, kuti athe kukhala okhazikika ku Ulaya, Germany inayenera kukhala imodzi mwa mizati ya kukhazikika kumeneko. Kuyesetsa kulichotsa kungabweretse tsoka. Kaya aku Germany ali olondola kapena olakwika ndi nkhani yosiyana. Nkhaniyi ndi yakuti, simungakhale ndi dongosolo lachigawo lomwe liri lokhazikika komanso lachibadwidwe, kutanthauza kuti likhoza kuima pamiyendo yake, popanda kukhala ndi mayiko amphamvu kwambiri m'deralo kuphatikizidwa ndikukhala mizati ya izo.
Kotero lingaliro lakuti munthu akhoza kukhala ndi mphamvu yowonjezereka ya mphamvu m'derali, mgwirizano, womwe umachokera ku kuchotsedwa kwa Iran, ukhoza kugwira ntchito ngati United States ikulipira ndi magazi ndi chuma chake. Ndipo ngakhale pamenepo ikadakhalabe ndi tsiku lalifupi kwambiri lotha ntchito. Koma ndizo zomwe Saudis ndi Israeli ankafuna kuti United States ipitirize kuchita.
Pambuyo pa nkhondo ya Iraq, zidadziwika bwino kuti United States idadzifooketsa kotero kuti sikanatha kukhazikitsanso dongosolo loterolo. Ndipo ndipamene mumawona kusiyana kwakukulu pakati pa Israeli ndi Saudi Arabia kumbali imodzi ndi United States kumbali inayo.
PAUL JAY: Gawo la United States.
TRITA PARSI: Magawo a United States.
PAUL JAY: Chifukwa filosofi ya Cheney yabwereranso mu mphamvu.
TRITA PARSI: Ndi. Pali filosofiyo kunena kuti: Chabwino, chifukwa chokha chomwe sichinagwire ntchito ndi chifukwa chakuti sitinakhale olimba mokwanira; sitinathire ndalama zokwanira ndi njira zankhondo pa vutoli. Tikangochita zimenezo, zikanagwira ntchito.
PAUL JAY: Chifukwa chomwe Iran idadzaza chopukutiracho ndichifukwa choti chopandacho chidapangidwa ndikutulutsa asitikali aku America, malinga ndi malingaliro awa. Khalani ndi gulu lalikulu lankhondo laku America ku Iraq; Iran siipeza konse malo amenewo. Yankho ndiloti, abwezereni asilikali.
Mumalankhula za kusabwerera m'mbuyo-
TRITA PARSI: Ndiyenera kunena, kumlingo wina sindiri wotsimikiza ngati izi zimayendetsedwa ndi mafakitale amafuta amafuta ndi-
PAUL JAY: Ndikuganiza kuti ndi zinthu zambiri.
TRITA PARSI: Koma chimodzi mwazinthu zazikuluzikulu zomwe zakhalapo nthawi zonse ndipo zikuwonekera kwambiri, ndikuti ndiwo mzere wa ena mwa ogwirizana a United States m'derali omwe akhala opindulitsa kwambiri ku US hegemony m'deralo. Amayang'ana mmbuyo ku nthawi ya 2003 isanayambe ndi chikhumbo chachikulu chifukwa ndi pamene US inali yamphamvu kwambiri moti inali kudzipatula Iraq ndi Iran, inali yokhazikika, makamaka poyerekeza ndi lero. Ndipo mโmalingaliro awo, ngakhale si onse amene akunena momveka bwino, anali United States amene anawononga dongosolo limenelo popita ku Iraq poyambirira.
PAUL JAY: Zikuwoneka kuti dongosololi, ndipo amafotokoza momveka bwino, "iwo" kukhala ena mwa olankhulira mfundo zakunja za Trump komanso anthu omwe ali patsamba lino komanso mitundu ya Steven Bannon ... Iraq wina. Mwa kuyankhula kwina, sokonezani, yambitsani nkhondo yapachiweniweni, ndipo yesani kuwononga gululo ndi kubwezera chilango. Ndikutanthauza, chifukwa chothetsera mgwirizano wa nyukiliya si chifukwa akuganiza kuti Iran sinatsatire, akufuna zilango. Akufuna kuwononga chuma. Akufuna kupanga zifukwa zachisokonezo ku Iran. Ndipo chifukwa chiyani?
Chifukwa chake mu gawo lotsatira la zokambirana zathu, tikambirana momwe njira iyi imawonekera komanso momwe iliri yeniyeni. Chifukwa amaganiza kuti apambana ku Iraq, ndipo sizinayende bwino. Chonde lowani nafe gawo lotsatira la Reality Asserts Lokha ndi Trita Parsi pa The Real News Network.
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