I-Egypt ilungiselela ukusingatha abaholi bomhlaba ngenyanga ezayo engqungqutheleni yesimo sezulu yaminyaka yonke ye-UN e-Sharm el-Sheikh, okuyisinyathelo isazi sezemvelo esivelele nombhali uNaomi Klein asibiza “ngokuwashwa luhlaza.” Ngenkathi uhulumeni emukela izimbangela ezikha phezulu zokunciphisa ukuguquguquka kwesimo sezulu njengokuphinda kusetshenziswe kabusha noma amaphaneli elanga, "okungemukelekile kungaba ukukhombisa le nethiwekhi enkulu enenzuzo enkulu amasosha uqobo abandakanyeka kuyo axhumene namafutha ezinto ezimbiwa phansi, axhumene ukucekela phansi indawo eluhlaza esele emadolobheni afana neCairo,” kusho uKlein. Wengeza ngokuthi umphakathi wamazwe omhlaba kufanele usebenzise leli thuba ukucindezela i-Egypt ukuthi ikhulule iziboshwa zayo zezombusazwe eziboshiwe, ezibhekene nezimo ezinonya.
U-AMY GOODMAN: Sanaa, ngifuna ukuletha uNaomi Klein. U-Naomi Klein ungumbhali onesandla esiphezulu e- I-Intercept, uprofesa wobulungisa besimo sezulu e-University of British Columbia.
Nawomi, ubhale a Ucezu in I-Intercept futhi The Guardian, “I-Greenwashing isimo samaphoyisa: iqiniso nge-masquerade yase-Egypt ye-Cop27.” Uveza ukuthi emashumini ezinkulungwane zabantu abazoba sengqungqutheleni yesimo sezulu eSharm el-Sheikh - Intando yeningi Manje!, yebo, izosibekela, futhi sizobe silapho - lelo nani lingase libe ngaphansi kwenani leziboshwa zezombangazwe emajele aseGibhithe. Ungakwazi ukukhuluma okwengeziwe ngalokhu?
U-NAOMI KLEIN: Yebo. Sawubona, Amy. Kuhle ukuba nawe. Futhi, Sanaa.
Ngicabanga ukuthi leyo nombolo ibaluleke ngempela, ngoba uzwa lezi zibalo ziphonswa nxazonke, futhi kunzima ukugoqa ikhanda lakho nxazonke. Kodwa njengoba wazi, u-Amy, kusukela ekuhlanganiseni ama-COP manje iminyaka engaphezu kweshumi, empeleni afana nedolobha elingaphakathi kwedolobha. Zinkulu. Kuzoba nezithunywa ezingaphezu kuka-35,000. Futhi lokhu kuyinhlanganisela yabaxoxisana nohulumeni nezishoshovu nama-NGO, izithunywa zazo zonke izinhlobo, nabaholi abambalwa bomhlaba abaxubene, niyazi, ongqongqoshe bezemvelo emhlabeni wonke. Ngakho-ke kuzoba nje, kukhulu kakhulu. Kodwa lokho kuzoba cishe uhhafu wesibalo seziboshwa zezepolitiki ezilinganiselwa e-Egypt, okulinganiselwa ukuthi zilinganiselwa ku-60,000. I-Human Rights Watch, i-Amnesty, amaqembu alandela lokhu azoshesha ukusho ukuthi ngenxa yokungabi bikho kwezinto obala, kunzima kakhulu ukwazi ukuthi - kungaba abaningi, abaningi. Ngakho-ke, lesi yisimo sezepolitiki. Izingcezu ozishilo yilezi - ngiphikisa ukuthi lokhu kweqa umugqa omusha obomvu. Kuvame ukuba nengcindezelo ngesikhathi sama-COP. Kuvame ukuboshwa. Kodwa lokho kuboshwa kwehluke ngokuphelele eGibhithe.
Kodwa ngaphezu kwalokho, leli yizwe, umbuso ocindezela kakhulu emlandweni wanamuhla waseGibhithe, osempini esebenzayo kanye nomqondo womphakathi. Futhi izinhlangano zomphakathi zingabambisene nabo ababalulekile, iyisici esibalulekile kulezi zingqungquthela zesimo sezulu. Akufani nokubamba ama-Olympics noma iNdebe yoMhlaba. Ngisho, lokhu kulwela, ucwaningo, inkululeko yokukhuluma, kuyingxenye yezingxoxo ngokwazo. Futhi kuzoba nalokhu kungezwani kwengqondo okungavamile lapho abantu beya e-Egypt - kungakapheli amasonto amabili manje, ngoba kuzoba nohlobo lombukiso oqhubekayo e-Sharm el-Sheikh. Kuzoba khona amanye amalungu omphakathi waseGibhithe. Kuzoba nabaholi bentsha. Kuyoba khona abantu abaphethe izimpawu futhi babonakale bekhululekile ukusho izinto. Kepha kuzoba uhlobo olubhalwe phansi kakhulu futhi olunemikhawulo, ngoba amaqembu aseGibhithe avunyelwe kuleso sikhala, ahlolwe kakhulu nguhulumeni waseGibhithe.
Futhi ngokocwaningo lweHuman Rights Watch, kunezinhlobo ezithile zezindaba zezemvelo ezithathwa njengohlobo “lwemukelwayo” - igama abalisebenzisayo - izihloko, futhi lezo izinto ezifana nokugaywa kabusha, ukucosha udoti, ukukhuthaza ama-solar panel, ukukhuthaza. ngezezimali zesimo sezulu ezizonothisa lo mbuso. Kepha okungamukelekile kungaba ukukhombisa inethiwekhi enkulu enenzuzo amasosha uqobo asebenza kuyo exhumene nezinto zokubasa ezimbiwa phansi, ezixhumene nokucekela phansi indawo eluhlaza emadolobheni afana neCairo, akha izimboni zikasimende ezisebenza ngamalahle. njalo njalo. Akukho kulokhu okwamukelekile. Futhi ngempela, ngisho nokwenza ucwaningo lokusho ukuthi kwenzekani eGibhithe kungakunikeza isigwebo sentambo ngaphansi kombuso wamanje.
U-AMY GOODMAN: Bengibheka i-retweet yakho. Ubhale kabusha uGillian Keegan, othe, “Amazwi amancane adinga ukuzwakala. Namuhla ekuseni, ngihlangane nabaholi besimo sezulu abasha baseGibhithe—abantu abamangalisayo abanemibono ekhuthazayo. Ku-#Cop27, kumele sikhumbule amandla nothando lwabantu abasha, futhi siqinisekise ukuthi kusiqhubekisela phambili.” Futhi ukubhale kabusha ngalawa mazwana: “Lena kanye i-greenwash/rightswash u-el-Sisi ayifunayo ku-#COP27, kuyilapho izinkulungwane zezishoshovu ezisencane zihlupheka egunjini lakhe lokuhlushwa. Yeka ihlazo elingaka. #FreeAlaa.” Khuluma kabanzi ngalokhu kanye nokuhlotshaniswa kodaba lwamalungelo abantu nokulwela isimo sezulu, futhi ngubani ongeke abe sengqungqutheleni, hhayi ngoba beqhele ngezinkulungwane zamakhilomitha - lokho kungolunye udaba - kodwa izishoshovu zaseGibhithe.
U-NAOMI KLEIN: Impela. Futhi u-Sanaa angakhuluma ngalokhu kangcono kunami. Kodwa lowo kwakungowaseBrithani - ngikholwa ukuthi uyisithunywa se-Afrika ngaphansi - angazi ukuthi siyini isikhundla sakhe namuhla, ngoba, vele, uhulumeni wamaNgisi usuwa ngokuphelele. Futhi bengingaqondile ukungahloniphi abaholi abasha besimo sezulu ababeshuthwe naye, kodwa lolu uhlobo lwezithombe olwenziwa ngu-el-Sisi. Ngicabanga ukuthi izishoshovu ezisencane zifakwa esimweni esingemukeleki nhlobo ngaphakathi kweGibhithe nangaphandle kwaseGibhithe. Abazange bakhethe ukuthi le ngqungquthela ibe seGibhithe. Leso kwakuyisinqumo, futhi ngicabanga ukuthi sasibi kakhulu, esenziwe unobhala we-UNFCCC, i-UN Framework Convention on Climate Change. Uyazi, ukubamba iCOP, ukubamba le ngqungquthela enkulukazi, kuyinzuzo enkulu kwezomnotho ezweni. Kuyinzuzo enkulu ye-PR yezwe. Kufanele kube nemibandela ehambisana nayo. Kufanele kube nemibandela encane yamalungelo abantu kunoma yiliphi izwe elizobe liphethe i-COP. Futhi ngokusobala, i-Egypt yayingeke ihlangabezane nalokho.
Kodwa-ke, indida - uyazi, u-Sanaa unathi. Uyazi, u-Sanaa uyiqhawe ngokwalo. U-Sanaa wayengomunye wabantu abasha abathatha i-Tahrir Square ngo-2011 futhi babeyi-toast yomhlaba, akunjalo? Ngisho, Intando yeningi Manje! wawumboza udonga nodonga. Kwakunjalo ne-CNN. Kwaba njalo I-Daily Show. Babeyithemba elikhulu, i-Arab Spring. U-Sanaa wayeneminyaka engu-17 kuphela ngaleso sikhathi. Bekunezingane ezineminyaka engu-14 esigcawini. Ngakho-ke, indida yalo mbuso iphakamisa abaholi bayo abasha futhi ithi izokhuluma - futhi lokhu kuyingcaphuno eqondile evela kuwebhusayithi ye-COP - ukuthi "bazobe bekhuluma iqiniso emandleni" eGibhithe, kuyilapho izinkulungwane phezu kwezinkulungwane zabantu abasha basemagunjini okuhlushwa ka-el-Sisi, kuwuhlobo nje lwe- - ngu-Orwellian e-dissonance. Kwezinye zezincwadi azithola ejele, ukhuluma ngokuthi abanye aboshwe nabo baneminyaka engu-17 ubudala futhi bake bagqunywa ejele kusukela besebancane.
U-AMY GOODMAN: Ngangifuna—
U-NAOMI KLEIN: Ngakho-ke, ngicabanga - into eyodwa nje engingayengeza ukuthi izolo uGreta Thunberg ubhale kuTwitter ehlangene neziboshwa zikanembeza zase-Egypt futhi, uyazi, wathi - usebenzise i-hashtag ethi #FreeThemAll, engicabanga ukuthi isenzo esijule kakhulu nesitatimende sobumbano. kusukela koyedwa umholi wentsha kuya kwabanye ngemuva kweziboshwa.
U-AMY GOODMAN: Ngifuna ukuphetha ngo-Sanaa, kodwa okokuqala ngifuna ukudlala amazwi ka-Alaa Abd El-Fattah ngamazwi akhe.
I-ALAA ABD EL-FATTAH: [kuhunyushwe] Konke okucelwa kithi ukuthi siphikelele ekumeleleni okulungile. Akudingekile ukuba sibe abanqobi ekumeleleni kwethu okulungile. Akudingekile ukuba siqine njengoba simelela okulungile. Akudingekile ukuba siprakthize ukuma kwethu kokulungile, noma sibe nohlelo oluhle noma ukuhlela okuhle. Okucelwa kithina wukuthi sigcizelele ukumela okulungile.
U-AMY GOODMAN: Lokho, okuvela kuwe - okuvela esikhumbuzweni sikababa ka-Alaa ngo-2014, kukhululwe kafushane ukuze ukwazi ukuba khona. Ngiyazi ukuthi lokhu kubuhlungu kakhulu kuwe, Sanaa, njengoba ukhuluma ngomfowenu, izinsuku ezingaphezu kuka-200 etelekeni lokulamba. Ubaba wakho washona ngo-2014. Indodana yakhe yazalwa — akunjalo? - ngenkathi esejele ngaphambili.
SANAA SEIF: Yebo.
U-AMY GOODMAN: Imicabango yakho yokugcina -
SANAA SEIF: Yebo, ngiyabonga ngakho nobabili -
U-AMY GOODMAN: - njengoba ubuyela endaweni yokuhlala?
SANAA SEIF: Yebo. Bengifuna ukugcizelela kulokho uNawomi ayekusho, ukuthi kubaluleke ngempela ukusebenzisa lesi senzakalo ukuze sikhanyisele isimo samalungelo abantu eGibhithe. Imiphumela izokwenzeka noma kunjalo. Lokho akukwazi ukulondolozwa, ngeshwa. Kodwa zingaba zincane. Njengamanje imiphumela iyaqala ukwenzeka. Amaphoyisa aseqalile ukuzungeza ezindaweni eziningi edolobheni laseCairo, enhlokodolobha, aseqalile ukumisa abantu emgwaqeni futhi ebheka omakhalekhukhwini ukuze abone ukuthi babhalani ku-Facebook. Sivame ukuba nalokhu - lokhu bakwenza ngesikhathi sokugubha usuku lwenguquko, futhi leyo yinyanga lapho wonke umuntu owayeyingxenye yenguquko ayesula khona amafoni abo, ayehlala ekhelini elihlukile. Wonke umuntu ukholelwa ukuthi le ndlela yokucindezela iqale ekuqaleni kwalo nyaka ngoba i-COP yenzeka eGibhithe. Ngakho-ke, ngifuna ukunxusa noma ubani ozokugcina engqondweni lokho, ukuthi abantu baseGibhithe bazokhokha inani elinzima kakhulu lalowo mcimbi.
Ngakho-ke, kubaluleke kakhulu ukugxeka, futhi kubaluleke kakhulu ukukhuluma. Futhi ngibonga ngempela kuwo wonke umuntu owenza lokho, njengoNawomi noGreta, ngoba, okokuqala, bekungayidambisa imiphumela; okwesibili, ngenkathi sibhekene naleyo miphumela, kufanele okungenani sizwe imfudumalo yobumbano. Futhi njengoba sihlangene sonke emhlabeni jikelele, singakha - kungaba isifundo esihle esifundweni ezingqungqutheleni zesimo sezulu ezizayo ukuthi kukhona - kunezidingo zezwe elizosingatha, ukuze eminyakeni ezayo kungabikho amanye amazwe ngokuyisisekelo yizindawo zomhlatshelo. Ngonyaka olandelayo i-COP izoba se-UAE, okuzoba yinselelo enkulu kakhulu. Ngakho-ke, yebo, kubaluleke kakhulu ukucacisa isimo samalungelo abantu eGibhithe manje.
U-AMY GOODMAN: Hhayi-ke, Sanaa Seif, ngifuna ukukubonga kakhulu ngokuba nathi. Unesibindi ngendlela emangalisayo. Wena ngokwakho uboshelwe iminyaka engaphezu kwemithathu, futhi uke waba neziteleka zendlala. Lapho uneminyaka engu-17, njengoba uNaomi ayesho, ubungaphandle e-Tahrir Square unikeza iphephandaba lakho lesikole samabanga aphezulu, uphikisana nombuso. Futhi omunye wabahleli befilimu eqokwe i-Oscar I-Square mayelana noTahrir, u-Sanaa Seif, ohlangene nathi evela eLondon, lapho yena nodadewabo uMona behola khona ingqungquthela ukuze kukhululwe umfowabo, esitelekeni sokulamba izinsuku ezingaphezu kuka-200, umama wabo e-Egypt ngoba bahlala benelungu elilodwa lomndeni lapho. abe seduze no-Alaa, nakuba esetilongweni. Futhi, uNaomi Klein, sibonga kakhulu ngokuhlanganyela nathi ovela eBritish, Columbia, umbhali obambe iqhaza omkhulu e- I-Intercept, uprofesa wobulungisa besimo sezulu e-University of British Columbia. UNaomi wabhala isandulela sencwadi ka-Alaa, esanda kukhululwa, Awukanqotshwa. Futhi sizokuxhumanisa, Nawomi, neyakho Guardian/Ngenisa Ucezu, “I-Greenwashing isimo samaphoyisa: iqiniso nge-masquerade yase-Egypt ye-Cop27.”
I-ZNetwork ixhaswa kuphela ngokuphana kwabafundi bayo.
Nikela