Bio

 

U-Noam Chomsky ubhale kwaye wafundisa ngokubanzi ngeelwimi, ifilosofi, imbali yengqondo, imiba yangoku, imicimbi yamazwe ngamazwe kunye nomgaqo-nkqubo wase-US wangaphandle. Imisebenzi yakhe ibandakanya: Imiba yeTheory yeSintaksi; iCartesian Linguistics; Ipatheni yesandi sesiNgesi (kunye noMorris Halle); Ulwimi nengqondo; Amandla aseMelika kunye neMandarins eNtsha; Kwimfazwe neAsia; Ngezizathu zikaRhulumente; Uxolo kuMbindi Mpuma?; IiReflections ngoLwimi; UQoqosho lwezoPolitiko lwamaLungelo oLuntu, uMqulu. I kunye no-II (kunye no-ES Herman); Imithetho kunye nomelo; IiNtetho ngoRhulumente kunye nokuBophelela; Sijonge kwiMfazwe eNtsha yoCold; Izinto eziPhambili ngokuBalulekileyo; Unxantathu oPhakamileyo; Ulwazi loLwimi; Ukuguqula iTide; AmaPirates kunye nabalawuli; Ngamandla kunye neNgcinga; Ulwimi neeNgxaki zoLwazi; INkcubeko yobuGqwirha; IMvume yokuVeliswa (kunye ne-ES Herman); Iinkohliso eziyimfuneko; Ukunqanda iDemokhrasi; Unyaka wama-501; I-Camelot yokucinga kwakhona: i-JFK, iMfazwe yaseVietnam kunye neNkcubeko yezoPolitiko zase-US; Iileta ezivela eLexington; IMiyalelo yeHlabathi, emidala kunye neNtsha; Inkqubo yokuNcinana; Amandla kunye neProspects; Okulungileyo Okuqhelekileyo; Inzuzo phezu kwabantu; UBuntu Obutsha boMkhosi; I-Horizons eNtsha kuFundo loLwimi neNgqondo; Izizwe eziGqirha; Isizukulwana esitsha sitsala umgca; 9-11; kunye namandla okuqonda. Eyona ncwadi yakhe yamva nje ibizwa ngokuba yi “Gaza in Crisis: Reflections on the Israel War against the Palestinians” yapapashwa ngoNovemba ka-2010.

 

 

 

 

U-PAUL JAY, UMHLELI OMKHULU, TRNN: Wamkelekile kwiNethiwekhi yeNdaba yokwenyani. NdinguPaul Jay eCambridge, Massachusetts. Ngoku ukujoyina kwethu yindoda engadingi kwaziswa, ngoko ke andizukwenza enye. Enkosi ngokuzimanya nathi, Mnu. Chomsky.

 

UNOAM CHOMSKY, ISAYENSI NGENGQONDO, ITSHWELI LEZOPOLITIKO: Ndiyavuya ukuba lapha kwakhona.

 

UJAY: Ke sixelelwa ngabantu abaninzi, nakwezopolitiko, ukuba ingxaki asivani. Kumaphepha angaphambili amaphephandaba namhlanje, ibali, ngaba iiDemokhrasi ziya kusebenza kunye namaRiphabhlikhi? Kwaye bavota malunga nokuba abantu abaninzi baseRiphabhlikhi bafuna ukuba abameli babo balwe okanye bangalwi. Kwaye sixelelwa ngabantu abafana noJon Stewart ukuba ingxaki yeyokuba sifuna iziko elisengqiqweni ngakumbi, ingxoxo esengqiqweni ngakumbi; Ingxaki ngabantu abakwicala lasekhohlo kunye nogqithiso lwasekunene, kwaye bekusoloko kukho lo kwahlukana phakathi kwento ebizwa ngokuba yi-liberalism kunye ne-conservatism, kwaye loo nto yiyantlukwano esisiseko yoluntu lwaseMelika, kwaye ingxaki yinkululeko kunye nabagcini nje kufuneka babe nenkululeko. Intetho eneziqhamo ezingakumbi, kufuneka badibane kwaye bafumane iziko eliphilileyo, konke oku ngexesha lelona xesha lobunzima boqoqosho lwehlabathi, ngokuqinisekileyo ukusukela ngoo-1930s. Kwaye ngubani owaziyo? Isenokujika ibe nzulu ngakumbi kunoko. Ingaba uthini wena kule ndawo ikuyo ukuba yintoni ingxaki?

 

CHOMSKY: Ndicinga ukuba incinci inyani kuyo. Okwenzekileyo kule minyaka ingama-35 idlulileyo kukuba omabini amaqela akhukuliseke ekunene. Andiqondi ukuba amagama enkululeko kunye ne-conservative athetha kakhulu. Ngapha koko, ukuba ujonga i-kukho uphando olunzulu kwizimo zengqondo zabantu abazibiza ngokuba ngabalondolozi. Ke iqela labantu elithi, Ndithanda urhulumente omncinci, ukuthotywa kwerhafu; uyibeke ecaleni imiba yasekuhlaleni, yahlukile; kuhle, kubonakala ukuba uninzi lwabo lunezimo zengqondo zedemokhrasi ezingaphezulu okanye ngaphantsi. Uyazi, bacinga ukuba kufuneka kusetyenziswe imali eninzi kwimpilo, ngakumbi kwimfundo, ngakumbi ekuncedeni amahlwempu, kodwa hayi intlalontle. UReagan uphumelele ekulenzeni mnyama igama elithi intlalontle ngamabali akhe malunga, uyazi, abafazi abamnyama kwii-limousines eziza kwiiofisi zentlalontle njalo njalo. Ngoko akukho ntlalontle, kodwa uncedo kwabahluphekileyo. Akukho ncedo lwangaphandle, kodwa ke xa abantu bebuzwa ukuba kufuneka sinikele malini na, badla ngokuthetha kakhulu kunokuba sinjalo. Kwaye into onayo ngokusisiseko phakathi kwabo babizwa ngokuba ngabagcini belizwe yinto esiyibiza ngokuba ziingqondo zenkululeko kumbandela emva komcimbi. Thatha, yithi, uhlaziyo lwezempilo olwadlulayo u-Obama, owona mcimbi wokulwa. Ewe, uninzi lwabantu luchasa uhlaziyo lwezempilo. Ukuba ujonga izizathu, inani elikhulu liyachaswa ngenxa yokuba alihambanga ngokwaneleyo, kwaye kwimiba ethile u-Obama ayinikileyo, njengokutsho, ukhetho loluntu. Kukho inkxaso eyomeleleyo yokuvumela iinkampani zoxubo-mayeza ukuba ziyeke ukubulala, kuba urhulumente akavumelekanga ukuthethathethana ngamaxabiso nabo-inkcaso eyoyikekayo.

 

UJAY: Kodwa ngokuqinisekileyo kunyulo oludlulileyo, kwiintsuku nje ezimbalwa ezidlulileyo, oko kwachazwa njengesikhundla abantu abavotele sona, ubuncinci - ukuba ujonga kwi-lens yemidiya, uyazi, iphantsi ukuya kungabikho rhafu, abantu kufuneka. bazikhusele, uyazi, yonke le ngcamango ye-nanny state iyahlaselwa. Uguqulelo olugqithise ngakumbi lwento enokuthi ilungile [engavakaliyo]

 

CHOMSKY: Yinyani leyo phakathi kwezithethi zelungelo. Kodwa, kwakhona, ukuba ujonga ukuvota kwabantu abathatha ezo mbono, kwaye ubabuze, ngaba kufuneka sinciphise, sithi, Medicare, kufuneka sinciphise uncedo lwemfundo, ukuba sinciphise uphuhliso lweziseko zophuhliso. , bathi hayi.

 

UJAY: Ewe, indlela oyibeke ngayo uthetha ngayo eluntwini phakathi kwabantu abaqhelekileyo abaneenqobo ezisemgangathweni. Kodwa le yinto engaxoxiswanga. Kwaye mhlawumbi le, uyazi, [engavakaliyo] luhlobo lwenqaku? Ndinyanisa-.

 

CHOMSKY: Ndithetha ukuba ikhona. Umzekelo-.

 

UJAY: Hayi, into endiyifumanayo yile, kukho isicatshulwa sikaGeorge Will endihlala ndisicaphula rhoqo, malunga nembali nganye endiyenzayo ngoku. Ekwindla ka-2008, ukuya kunyulo lwe-'08, uGeorge Will use-Stephanopoulos's show, kwaye kukho umva kunye noDonna Brazile. Kwaye ekugqibeleni i-Will igqabhukile, uthi, masingabi nazimvakalelo ngedemokhrasi. Asikwazi ukukhetha ukuba ngaba i-elite iya kulawula okanye hayi; sinokukhetha ukuba yeyiphi i-elite eya kulawula. Kwaye yinxalenye yomba apha wokuba olu tshintsho lwenkululeko luyinto eguqukayo phakathi kwabaphezulu, kwaye ayithethiswa ngolo hlobo malunga nokuba kuqhubeka ntoni kulo lonke uluntu?

 

I-CHOMSKY: Yinto eguquguqukayo phakathi kwamazwi, abo banokufikelela-abanokufikelela koluntu ukuba baziveze, njengoWill. Kodwa izimo zengqondo zabemi zahluke ngokupheleleyo. Ngapha koko, ukuba ujonga kule minyaka idlulileyo-kwaye bekukho izifundo ezibanzi kakhulu-intando ngokubanzi yabemi yahluke kakhulu kumgaqo-nkqubo kwimiba ephambili. Ndingakuthumela kwezinye izifundo ukuba uyathanda, kodwa kukho izifundo ezinononophelo kuzo. Enyanisweni, kwimibandela emininzi ebalulekileyo—. Nditsho. Ndimelwe kukuba ndishiywe ngokupheleleyo. Ndizifumana ndivumelana ngakumbi okanye kancinane noninzi lwabemi—ngaphezulu okanye ngaphantsi; uyazi, hayi ncam. Kodwa oko kwahluke ngokupheleleyo kwipolisi. Ngoko, umzekelo, thatha, uthi, imiba yemigaqo-nkqubo yangaphandle, efundwe ngononophelo. Kukho incwadi kaBenjamin Page kunye noMarshall Bouton ebizwa Uqhagamshelo loMgaqo-nkqubo waNgaphandle, apho bafunda khona, kwiminyaka emininzi, izimo zengqondo zoluntu malunga nemigaqo-nkqubo yangaphandle xa kuthelekiswa nomgaqo-nkqubo, kwaye kukho ukuqhawula ngokukhawuleza. Ngoko, masithi, kwimibandela yamazwe ngamazwe, uninzi lucinga ukuba iZizwe Ezimanyeneyo zifanele zikhokele, kungekhona iUnited States, kwiingxaki zamazwe ngamazwe. Ngokwenyani, uninzi lucinga ukuba i-US kufuneka iyeke i-veto kwiBhunga lezoKhuseleko.

 

UJAY: Kwakucacile phambi kweMfazwe yase-Iraq uninzi loluvo loluntu lwathi i-UN mayigqibezele uhlolo lwayo.

 

CHOMSKY: Ewe, kodwa ngumgangatho. Ndiyathetha, ufumana-xa i-United States isemfazweni kwaye kukho ipropaganda eninzi malunga nendlela ubomi bethu obusemngciphekweni njalo njalo, ke, izinto ziyatshintsha. Umzekelo, ukuba ubuyela umva malunga nesithathu-thatha, uthi, owona mgaqo-nkqubo wangaphandle, i-Iran. Kujongwa, uyazi, isoyikiso kucwangco lwehlabathi. Ngoku, kukho - kule minyaka imbalwa idlulileyo bekukho itoni yepropaganda malunga nayo, kodwa ukuba ubuyela umva kanye phambi kwepropaganda, yithi, ngoJanuwari 2007, xa bekukho izifundo ezibanzi zoluvo loluntu lwase-Iranian kunye neMelika, kwavela ukuba bahle. efanayo. Bobabini bavuma ukuba-ininzi enkulu, ukuba i-Iran ifanele ibe nelungelo lokutyebisa i-uranium, njengomsayini weSivumelwano sokuNgande, kodwa ingaphuhlisi izixhobo zenyukliya; bobabini bathanda uthethathethwano endaweni yokoyikisa ngenkani; njalo njalo ezantsi komgca. Ngapha koko, enkulu, uyazi, uninzi lwacinga ukuba i-United States kufuneka ihambe iye ekushiyeni izixhobo zenyukliya.

 

UJAY: Ukuba ubuyela kwingxoxo-mpikiswano yomgaqo-nkqubo kwimibuzo yasekhaya, ibekwe njenge-stimulus ngokuchasene ne-austerity: urhulumente omncinci, akukho rhafu; ngapha, irhafu kancinane, uhlaziyo kancinane irhafu kunye ezinye ivuselelo-nangona icandelo okhululekileyo ubunkokeli kwakhona ukuthenga imfuneko kamsinya kunokuba kamva ukufumana ukulwa ityala, ngamanye amazwi ukufumana austerity.

 

CHOMSKY: Kungekudala. Yiyo loo nto u-Obama enekhomishini yokusilela.

 

JAY: Ke ngoku kufuneka abantu bafune ntoni? Okanye ngowuphi umbono abantu abaqhelekileyo ekufuneka babenawo? Kwaye, uyazi, kunyulo oludlulileyo, urhulumente omncinci, irhafu ephantsi, unokufumana-abantu banokufumana iintloko zabo.

 

CHOMSKY: Ngaphandle nje kokuba abakholelwa, kuba xa ubabuza ukuba yintoni ekufuneka inqunyulwe, inqaku ngenqaku, bathetha hayi le, hayi leya, ndifuna ukuchitha imali ngaphezulu. Ke sisilogeni, uyazi, susa urhulumente emqolo. Kwaye khumbula, sinenkqubo yepropaganda eqhutywa ishishini. Ndithetha ukuthi, akufanele kube yimfihlo. Kwaye amashishini, ewe, angathanda ukuba norhulumente omncinci, angathanda ukususa urhulumente emqolo wethu, kuba oko kuthetha ukuba bayasihlasela. 'Yabona, kukho ulandelelwano lokufumana urhulumente emqolo; oko kukuthi, nika amandla abucala agxininisiweyo nangaphezulu amandla kunangoku. Ke abantu bazibiza ngokuba ngama-libertarians kwaye bathi, uyazi, asifuni kuqhutywa ngabanye. Bathi, sifuna ukuqhutywa ngoozwilakhe babucala. Bafanele bakhululeke ukwenza into abayithandayo. Leyo yinxalenye engachazwanga. Kodwa ukuba ucinga ngayo, nantso into eza kwenzeka. Thatha imiba ethile. Abantu bathi, ewe, asifuni rhafu, oko kukuthi, ngengozi, umdla kakhulu. Siza kubuyela kuyo ngomzuzwana. Kodwa xa abantu bebuzwa, ngaba ufuna iirhafu ezingakumbi? Hayi Yoyikeka. Apha, ngoAprili 15, uyazi, lu—lugqalwa njengomhla wokuzila. Abanye abantu basemzini baza kuba imali yakho. Ewe, inika umdla kakhulu loo nto. Eso sisiphumo samashumi eminyaka yosasazo olunzulu lokuzama ukwenza abantu bamthiye urhulumente ukuze icandelo leenkampani likwazi ukuqhuba izinto ngaphandle kokuphazamiseka. Kwaye, kunjalo, icandelo leshishini lifuna urhulumente omkhulu. Abafuni kunqumla urhulumente. Bafuna nje i nanny state bona. Kodwa ubuxoki buye banda kakhulu, kwaye bukuxelela into ethile. Ndithetha ukuthi, ukuba bekukho inkcubeko yedemokhrasi, inkcubeko esebenzayo yedemokhrasi, abantu bebeza kubhiyozela umhla we-15 kuTshazimpuzi. Bangathi umhla we-15 ka-Epreli lusuku esisebenzisana ngalo ukuphumeza imigaqo-nkqubo esiyikhethileyo. Kodwa azithethi loo nto.

 

UJAY: Ngaba yinxalenye yengxaki yokuba icandelo elibalulekileyo lasekhohlo, kwaye ngokuqinisekileyo ubunkokeli beDemocratic Party, abafuni ukujongana nento yokuba olu hlobo lorhulumente omkhulu luhlukaniswe kakhulu nabantu kwaye lo rhulumente mkhulu. idityaniswe ngokupheleleyo neli candelo loshishino, kodwa bazama uku-?

 

CHOMSKY: Ndingaliyeka ixesha khohlo, kuba, ndithetha ukuba, into ebizwa ngokuba linxele kumajelo eendaba yinto eyayikade ibizwa ngokuba amaRiphabhlikhi aphakathi. Izinto ezibizwa ngokuba ziiDemokhrasi ezintsha azikho-ziyinto ephakathi kwamaRiphabhlikhi angama-30, ama-40 eminyaka eyadlulayo. Abantu baseRiphabhlikhi banobuqhophololo kwaye bavuleleke iqela lamandla abucala, ubugwenxa babucala. Bona—ndithetha ukuba, bathetha ngathi singabantu abaqhelekileyo nabaphezulu, kodwa kunjalo wonke umntu. Kodwa ukuba ujonga iipolisi, yiloo nto eyiyo. Thatha, uthi, Obama. Ndithetha ukuthi, undoqo wenkxaso-mali yakhe kunyulo luka-2000 ngokwenene yayingamaziko emali. Kwaye xa amaqela abatyali-mali edibana ukuze alawule urhulumente-into esiyibiza ngokuba lunyulo-balindele ukuhlawulwa. Kwaye babenjalo.

 

UJAY: Uyabona ukuba ngubani oqeshwe njengeqela lezezimali lika-Obama.

 

CHOMSKY: Ngoko nangoko, uyazi, ngoko nangoko. Kwakukho nabanye abantu ababenokumiselwa.

 

JAY: Uthini ngoku umbono wabantu abaqhelekileyo? Yintoni abafanele babe nayo? Bafanele bathethe ntoni?

 

I-CHOMSKY: Bamele ukuba bafuna uluntu olusebenzayo lwedemokhrasi apho izigqibo zithathwa luluntu kwimibutho yabo, iintlanganiso zabo. Ndiyathetha, uyazi, masithathe, sithi, iiprimaries. Ke, yithi, iNew Hampshire ineprayimari yokuqala, ngokobuchwephesha. Ewe, ukuba unoluntu lwedemokhrasi, olusebenzayo, hayi nje olusesikweni, into ebinokwenzeka kukuba idolophu yaseNew Hampshire idibane, indibano yedolophu, nayiphi na imibutho abanayo, kwaye bathethe ezi- yemigaqo-nkqubo abafuna urhulumente ayilandele, beze kwisivumelwano esingaphezulu okanye esingaphantsi, bathi, singathanda ukwenza njalo kwaye, ngoko ukuba umviwa ufuna ukuza, kufuneka bathi, kulungile, ungaza, kwaye Siya kukuxelela into esifuna uyenze, kwaye ukuba ungazibophelela ngenene koku ngokunyaniseka, mhlawumbi siya kukuvotela. Akunjalo oko. Okwenzekayo kukuba umgqatswa ungene nesixhobo esikhulu se-PR enze intetho edolophini esithi, nantsi indlela endimangalisa ngayo kwaye nantsi into endiza kuyenza, kwaye abantu mhlawumbi [bengavakali] abakholelwa kakuhle kuye. , waza wahamba. Oko kuchasene nedemokhrasi.

 

JAY: Ngoku, uqoqosho buza kujongeka njani? Zithini iimfuno kuqoqosho?

 

CHOMSKY: Ewe, uyazi, ndicinga igama ukuvuselela iguqulwe yaba ligama elimdaka, ngathi irhafu. Kodwa ukuba bekukho ingxoxo yokwenyani malunga noku, ingxoxo kawonke-wonke ngayo, ndicinga ukuba uninzi lwabemi luya kuvumelana neengcali zezoqoqosho ezikhokelayo, abawonga bakaNobel, abathi into esiyifunayo sisivuselelo esikhulu. Ukunciphisa intsilelo phantsi kwendlela, mhlawumbi. Kodwa sasingenalo uvuselelo. Ndiyathetha ukuba, ukuba ujonga uvuselelo luka-Obama, ndithetha ukuthi, ngokuchasene neetoni zobuxoki malunga nayo, kukho ubungqina obulungileyo bokuba iye yasindisa mhlawumbi izigidi zemisebenzi. Nangona kunjalo, yayiyinkuthazo encinci kakhulu, kwaye yapheliswa kukucuthwa kwenkcitho karhulumente kwamanye amanqanaba. Ke uvuselelo lwalungaphezulu okanye lungaphantsi lufana nokucutha inkcitho yelizwe kunye neyendawo. Ngoko oko kuthetha ukuba kwakukho ukuvuselela.

 

UJAY: Ngaba yinxalenye yoku kugxeka okulahlekileyo kwimida yokuvuselela, ukuba kukho indawo apho nokuba kukho - nokuba inkqubo yemisebenzi karhulumente ngokuthe ngqo, ngaloo nto, kodwa ingxaki esisiseko yemivuzo emileyo kunye nentswela-ngqesho engapheliyo ngoku ephezulu-.

 

CHOMSKY: Oko kubuyela emva kwiminyaka engama-35.

 

UJAY: Ngaba akukho mfuneko yokuba kubekho idilesi kuloo nto? Kuba uvuselelo lulodwa alunakwenzeka ukuyilungisa loo nto.

 

CHOMSKY: Hayi, i-stimulus yingxaki ekhawulezileyo.

 

UJAY: Uthini umbono wexesha elide?

 

CHOMSKY: Kukho-ngoku kukho ingxaki yemfuno ephantsi. Iinkampani zinemali ephuma ezindlebeni zabo. Banenzuzo enkulu nje egciniweyo. Abayidali imfuno.

 

UJAY: Ewe. Ngapha koko, baya ngaselunxwemeni nemali ngoku, ubukhulu becala.

 

CHOMSKY: Inxalenye yayo, kwaye yinxalenye yengxaki, ebuyela emva, hayi okwangoku. Abantu abanako-abantu balahlekelwe malunga ne-6 yeebhiliyoni zeedola. Ayincinci loo nto. Nantso into eyayiyiyo iqamza lezindlu, kwaye mhlawumbi isibini seetriliyoni ezingaphezulu kwiingxowa-mali zabo ezifanayo njalo njalo. Ngoko malunga ne-8 yeebhiliyoni zeedola zobutyebi zilahlekile kubemi. Ke imfuno yabathengi ikhona-ikhona, kodwa ilinganiselwe. Ngoku, kulolo hlobo lwemeko, ekuphela kwendlela onokwenza ngayo ukuba uqoqosho luqhubele phambili kwakhona kungokudala imfuno karhulumente.

 

JAY: Kodwa yintoni?

 

CHOMSKY: Ukuba uqoqosho luyahamba kwakhona, luyakukhula, kwaye ngokukhula koqoqosho, ungabuyela kwaye woyise nayiphi na intsilelo ekhoyo. Intle kakhulu indlela ebisenziwa ngayo ngaphambili.

 

UJAY: Kodwa ke kule nkqubo yedemokhrasi eluntwini, akufuneki ukuba kubekho into ebonisa oko? Kwaye ukuba ubuyela kuhlobo olufanayo loqoqosho esasinalo ngaphambili-.

 

CHOMSKY: Kodwa ngoku siyahamba—yabona, masibuyele kuloo nto. Thatha—uthethe ngomvuzo omileyo. Yingxaki yeminyaka engama-35 leyo. Ndithetha ukuthi, bekukho ixesha lokukhula elikhulu ngaphandle kwembali ye-'50s kunye ne-'60s ukuya ekuqaleni kwee-'70s. Phakathi kwiminyaka yoo-'70 kubekho utshintsho olukhulu kumgaqo-nkqubo wezoqoqosho. Uyazi, ayizange yenzeke ngephanyazo, kodwa yenzeka ngokuhamba kwexesha, kwaye yanda nguReagan, kwakhona nguClinton, ngakumbi nguBush. Kodwa i-yamacala amabini, yaqala ekupheleni kweminyaka yeCarter. Zimbini izinto ezihambelanayo. Enye yazo yayilutshintsho olubhekiselele kuqoqosho lwemali. Ngoko isabelo senzuzo ngamaziko emali saqala ukwanda. Ukuza kuthi ga ngoku (uyazi, kukho-luqikelelo) malunga nesithathu senzuzo yenkampani. Uyazi, awanagalelo—amaziko emali enza okuthile kuqoqosho, kodwa akukho nto injalo. Oko kuyingozi kuqoqosho. Kodwa yanda kakhulu. Ngoku bangoyena ndoqo oqinileyo wamandla ezoqoqosho, masithi, isinye kwisithathu senzuzo yenkampani okanye into enjalo. Okunxulunyaniswa noko yayikukuvalelwa ngaphandle kweshishini elinemveliso. Ke kukuqhubekeka kwenkqubo [engavakaliyo]

 

JAY: wenza ntoni? Yintoni ekufuneka abantu bayifune malunga notshintsho lwesakhiwo kwicala lezoqoqosho?

 

CHOMSKY: Ewe, masijonge iziphumo zalento. Iziphumo zimalunga - malunga nama-35, iminyaka engama-30, ngaphezulu kancinci, umvuzo wesininzi, umvuzo wokwenyani, umile kakhulu, iiyure zokusebenza zonyukile. Abantu baye bafumana ngokuba nabantu abadala ababini abasebenzayo, okanye abafazi emsebenzini kwimivuzo ephantsi, kunye namatyala, kunye nokunyuka kwamaxabiso e-asethi, njengokuba, yithi, i-bubble yezindlu. Ewe, loo nto ayinakwenzeka. Kwaye okwangoku aba bantu banye bayabona ukuba kukho ubutyebi obuninzi obujikelezileyo, kodwa buya kwiipokotho ezimbalwa kakhulu. Ndiyathetha, abaphezulu mhlawumbi ipesenti enye okanye isinye kwishumi lepesenti enye yabemi bebesenza izihange. Kwaye ngoku sinalo kungalingani kungakholelekiyo, mhlawumbi sibuyele kwiminyaka yee-'1s, okanye irekhodi. Kwaye oku kuyinxalenye yengqondo yabantu. Ndisebenza nzima. Izinto ziya zibambi. Ndisebenza iiyure ezininzi. Izibonelelo ezingazange zilunge kakhulu ziye zehla. Okwangoku, abanye abantu baba zizityebi kakhulu. Kukho undonakele. Ndinike impendulo. Babenyanisile ukubuza impendulo. Abayi kuyifumana kwi-Democrats, abantu ababizwa ngokuba ngasekhohlo, kuba ngabo abaye bakhanyela kwaye baphumeza imigaqo-nkqubo. Abasayi kuthi, ewe, yinyaniso leyo; nantso into eyenzekayo xa sithatha inxaxheba kuhlumo olukhulu lwecandelo lezemali, olubaluleke ngendlela ethandabuzekayo kuqoqosho, lunokuba yingozi, ubukhulu becala; siye sakwenza oko, saza sancedisa umgaqo-nkqubo wokuvala imveliso, nto leyo engumgaqo-nkqubo wokubeka abantu abasebenzayo kukhuphiswano omnye komnye kwihlabathi liphela. Ke into esiyibiza ngokuba yimigaqo-nkqubo yethu yorhwebo-igama elibi kulo. Ngokuqinisekileyo hayi imigaqo-nkqubo yorhwebo lwasimahla. Oko kubizwa ngokuba yimigaqo-nkqubo yokurhweba ngokukhululekileyo ngokwesiseko yinkqubo ebeka abantu abasebenza ngokuchaseneyo kwihlabathi liphela, kodwa ikhusela abantu abakhethekileyo. Ke, umzekelo, asibavumeli oogqirha bamanye amazwe kunye namagqwetha kunye neengcali zezoqoqosho kunye nabanye ukuba baqeqeshe apha. Kukho lonke uhlobo lwezithintelo kuyo.

 

UJAY: Ke ngoko malunga notshintsho olusisiseko lwesakhiwo-.

 

CHOMSKY: Kodwa i-inqaku lam kukuba iiDemokhrasi azizukuyithetha le nto. Ngokucacileyo, iiRiphabhlikhi aziyi kuthetha. Abashicileli abayi kuthetha. Ke into ezayo nguGeorge Will, iTea Party, uRush Limbaugh, nabanye abathi, jonga, ndinempendulo. Ukuba nithe nabeva, mna ndaphulaphula; Ndinomdla-impendulo oyifumanayo inohlobo lokuhambelana kwangaphakathi. Ndiyathetha, iphumile eludongeni ngokubhekiselele kwinyani, kodwa inengqiqo yangaphakathi, kwaye ubuncinane yimpendulo, ngoko unokubona ukuba kutheni abantu bakholelwa. Kwaye baphela benezimo zengqondo eziphikisana ngokupheleleyo, ngathi masinciphise irhafu kwaye sikhuphe urhulumente emqolo wethu, kodwa masinyuse inkcitho kuzo zonke izinto endizikhathaleleyo. Khupha urhulumente emqolo wethu-akukho mntu uthi fumana amaqumrhu emqolo wakho. Uyazi. Ewe, kufanele ukuba sibe nengxoxo efanelekileyo malunga noku, kodwa oko kuya kufuna-uyazi, inye kuphela indlela eya kwenzeka, eyile, ngokumisela kwakhona uluntu olusebenzayo lwedemokhrasi (ukuya kumlinganiselo owawukho), nto leyo ethetha ukuba iyathandwa. imibutho apho abantu bathatha inxaxheba. Yiloo ndlela ofumana ngayo imibono. Nokuba usebenza, yithi, kulo mgangatho weMIT kwisayensi, awuhlali wedwa. Uthetha nabanye. Uyasebenzisana. Nisebenza kunye. Ufumana iingcinga zakho. Uyabalola [kwi] iimbono zabanye abantu. Ndithetha ukuba yayiyiloo nto imibutho yabasebenzi. Xa—eso sesinye sezizathu zokuba abezoshishino bazithiye kangaka imibutho yabasebenzi yaye bebezama ukuyitshabalalisa kangangeminyaka engama-60. Ziyingozi. Banempembelelo yedemokhrasi. Bahlanganisa abantu kunye kwaye babavumele ukuba basebenze kunye, kungekhona nje ukunyusa umvuzo wabo, kodwa kunye nokusebenza ukuba yintoni-uyazi, kanye into oyibuzayo, kufuneka ibe yintoni umgaqo-nkqubo wentlalo kunye noluntu. Kwaye, ewe, ayinguye kuphela umbutho onjalo. Sinabanye, kwaye abanye basasinda, iicawe, umzekelo.

 

UJAY: Kodwa ukwenza le ntetho isebenze, ukuba unokuba nolu hlobo lwedemokhrasi kwezopolitiko, ubuncinci ukuqala kwaloo nkqubo, kwaye abantu baqale ukuthetha ngezi ntlobo zemiba, sifuna uqoqosho olunjani, kwaye yintoni. ingaba loo mgaqo-nkqubo ukhangeleka ngathi—.

 

CHOMSKY: Ewe, ndiyacinga ukuba luhlobo luni loqoqosho esilufunayo ekufuneka ludlulele ngaphaya koku. Ndithetha nje ngenqanaba eliphezulu kakhulu.

 

JAY: Kulungile, ndiyathetha masiye ngapha koko. Zeziphi iinguqu kulwakhiwo ekumele abantu bacinge ngalo? Kuba ukuba into—.

 

CHOMSKY: Masenze ikhonkrithi.

 

UJAY: Ewe, kuba into eyanikelwa yiTea Party-nantoni na oyenzayo ngayo, kwakubonakala ngathi ngumbono umntu onokuwulwela. Uthini umbono, umbono ongomnye, ucinga ukuba uya kuba luncedo ebantwini?

 

I-CHOMSKY: Idemokhrasi, kwaye inemiba ebambekayo. Ke endaweni yokuba singabikho kuyo, makhe sithathe imeko yokwenyani. Urhulumente, ulawulo luka-Obama, luthathe indawo yoshishino lweemoto. Ndiyathetha, ngokusisiseko bebengabanini bayo. Abazange bayibize ngolo hlobo. Ewe, kukho izinto ebezinokuba zimkile. Okwenziwayo yayikukuqhubekeka komgaqo-nkqubo wokuvala izityalo, umsebenzi wokuthumela ngenqanawa phesheya kolwandle, njalo njalo, phantsi okufanayo—kakhulu—uyazi, ubuso obuthile obahlukeneyo, kodwa ngokusisiseko isimo sengqondo esifanayo. Kukho enye indlela. Kukho izinto elizidinga kakhulu ilizwe—umzekelo, ukuhamba ngesantya esiphezulu. Xa usiya phesheya kwaye ubuyela eUnited States, ngeendlela ezininzi kubonakala ngathi lilizwe lesithathu. Ndinganika iinkcukacha, kodwa umzekelo omnye oqhelekileyo kukunqongophala kwezithuthi zikawonke-wonke ezinesantya esiphezulu. Ewe, izityalo ze-GM ezifanayo ezivaliweyo zinezakhono zabasebenzi abanokuthi baphuhlise iteknoloji kwaye banike ilizwe. Kuya kubaluleka kakhulu kuqoqosho. Kwixesha elide iya kuba linyathelo lokulungisa ingxaki enkulu kakhulu yokufudumala kwehlabathi. Kodwa endaweni yokwenza oko, kwenzeka ntoni, yintoni-imigaqo-nkqubo yokuba izityalo ziyavalwa, zilungiswe, abasebenzi bacuthwe. Ngeli xesha, unobhala wezothutho ujikeleza iYurophu esebenzisa imali yokuvuselela umdibaniso ukufumana iikhontrakthi ezivela eSpain naseFransi nakwezinye iindawo ukubonelela ngesantya esiphezulu sokuhamba e-United States. Ndiyathetha, yi-surreal.

 

UJAY: Ke, ngamanye amazwi, ukhetho loluntu kwishishini lemoto.

 

I-CHOMSKY: Oko kuya kuthetha ukuba abasebenzi bathathe iifektri, nto leyo-'kuba abaphathi abayi kuvuma kwaye neebhanki aziyi kuvuma. Kodwa oko kuya kuthetha ukuba abasebenzi bafanele-kwaye noluntu, oko kubizwa ngokuba ngabachaphazelekayo, kufuneka bathathele ingqalelo inkqubo yemveliso. Emva koko babenokukwenza oku.

 

UJAY: Ewe, ngokuqinisekileyo urhulumente onoGM kunye noChrysler wayenokuba nalo naluphi na uhlobo lwebhodi abayifunayo.

 

CHOMSKY: Ewe, ngebanebachaphazelekayo.

 

JAY: Kunjani ke kwicandelo lezemali? Kutheni kungenzeki into enye, ukhetho loluntu kwicandelo lezemali?

 

CHOMSKY: Ewe, yabona, icandelo lezemali ngokwenene kufuneka libekwe phantsi kakhulu. Kukho izifundo ezinomdla eziqhubekayo malunga noku phakathi kweengcali zezoqoqosho. Kwaye jonga kwinkupho yokugqibela ye Dædalus, ijenali yeAmerican Academy of Arts and Sciences. Kukho iingxoxo ezininzi ezinde kuyo ngoosoqoqosho abaziwayo kakhulu, kubandakanywa nabaphumelele iNobel, abaphakamisa umbuzo onika umdla, "Isenzela ntoni inkqubo yezemali?" kwaye baxoxa ngeendlela. Kwaye into onokuthi uyifumanise-ayikaphandwa ngenene, kodwa isigwebo sabo, ke, uninzi lwayo luyingozi. Ndiyathetha, kukho inkonzo eyenziwa ngamaziko emali, njengokuqondisa utyalo-mali-ukuqondisa iimali, iimali ezigciniweyo, uyazi, oko ushiya ebhankini, ukusebenziseka, utyalo-mali oluvelisayo. Kodwa inani elikhulu alikwenzi oko. Izinikele ekunqumleni iinanoseconds ezimbalwa kudluliselo lwezemali, ezithi emva koko zibuyiselwe umva iinanoseconds ezimbalwa kamva. Ayinagalelo kwanto kuqoqosho, kodwa ifunxa iimali ezinkulu, kwaye ikwatsala italente ephezulu, ekwayindleko. Ewe, kunye namaziko emali umbuzo wokwenyani ngulo: ingaba sifuna kangakanani? Ndiyathetha, umlinganiselo othile. UPaul Volcker, unokukhumbula, ngethuba emva wathi ekuphela kwezinto ezintsha eziluncedo kwicandelo lezemali kule minyaka imbalwa idlulileyo ngumatshini we-ATM. Wayeyibaxa kwaye ethetha inqaku, kodwa kukho ingongoma. Ke ukufakwa kwemali kwezoqoqosho—kwaye, kwenzeka, kukho uqoqosho lwehlabathi—ngumbandela omkhulu ekufuneka ujikwe. Kususela oko yenzeka, malunga nee-'70s.

 

UJAY: Ndiyathetha, ngaba ikhona indlela yokwenza loo nto ngaphandle kwengcinga efanayo naleyo yanikelwa nguMongameli Obama kwinkqubo yezempilo? Ngaba bekungayi kufana nakwimali? Awunakukwazi ukwenza ngaphandle kohlobo oluthile lwesixhobo soluntu.

 

CHOMSKY: Nge-ewe, kwaye oko bekunokwenziwa ngokulula, kanye njengoko bekunokwenziwa ngobuchwephesha-.

 

UJAY: Into efanayo, kuba bebexhomekeke ngokupheleleyo kwimali yoluntu.

 

CHOMSKY: Ewe. Ke endaweni yokuba sithi, kulungile, siza kukunika ibheyile kwaye emva koko sikuhlawule, bebenokuthi, kulungile, singabanini ngoku, kwaye siya kukwakha kwakhona ngendlela eluncedo ekuhlaleni. Oko kuya kufuna uhlobo lombutho odumileyo othe, umzekelo, wakhokelela kwiSivumelwano esitsha. Uyazi, i-New Deal ayizange ivele ndawo. Ngapha koko, uRoosevelt wathi, ndinyanzele ukuba ndiyenze.

 

UJAY: Ke ukugxekwa koko kukuba ke kubeka amandla amaninzi kurhulumente womanyano.

 

I-CHOMSKY: Hayi, kodwa-bona, ukuba sinoluntu lwentando yesininzi, olusebenza, urhulumente wobumbano uya kuba ngabantu, ngoko sibeka amandla ezandleni zabemi kunye nabameli babo. Oko kubizwa ngokuba yidemokhrasi.

 

UJAY: Ngoko ke, ubufutshane bayo, ukwenza idemokhrasi kuqoqosho kufuneka wenze idemokhrasi kwezopolitiko kwaye ngokuphambeneyo.

 

CHOMSKY: Kwaye wenze idemokhrasi kuluntu. Kuya kufuneka uphinde wakhe imibutho yoluntu ebalulekileyo esebenzayo efana nemibutho yabasebenzi kwixesha elidlulileyo-kwaye ukusa kumkhamo othile isenjalo. Kwaye kukho nezinye ezininzi. Oko-ndithetha ukuba, sinokuthi, kulungile, asiyi kuba nedemokhrasi. Kulungile. Emva koko masiyinike yonke i-Goldman Sachs kunye-.

 

UJAY: Blackwater.

 

CHOMSKY: Yazi ke sobayeka bayenze lonto. Yiloo nto, ndiyacinga, into eyayithethwa nguGeorge Will. Kulungile. Ngoko masiyithethe. Uyazi. Kodwa ukuba siza kuzenza idemokhrasi, masibe banye. Masihambe siye kuhlobo loluntu apho umhla we-15 ka-Epreli ilusuku lokubhiyozela, kuba siphumeza izicwangciso zethu.

 

UJAY: Nge-15 ka-Epreli kuhlawulwe usuku lwakho lwerhafu.

 

I-CHOMSKY: Hlawula iirhafu zakho kuthetha, kulungile, siyasebenzisana ukuphumeza iinkqubo esigqibe kuzo. Kwaye into efanayo inokwenzeka, uyazi, kwidolophu apho i-GM plant ikhona kwaye ivaliwe kwaye abachaphazelekayo, abasebenzi, kunye noluntu bathi, hayi, siza kuyithatha kwaye sivelise oko kufunwa lilizwe. . Kulungile, oko kuya kufuna inkuthazo ethile yomanyano, kanye njengokuba uGM aqhubeke njengoko kwixesha elidlulileyo efuna inkuthazo enkulu yomanyano. Kodwa kunokwenziwa ngeendlela ezahlukeneyo. Akunyanzelekanga ukuba siye eSpain ukuya kufumana isithuthi esihamba ngesantya esiphezulu. Akuyomfuneko ukuba siye eTshayina ukuze sifumane iiphaneli zelanga. Ezi zizigqibo zentlalo ezenziwa ngabantu abanegunya, ngokuyinhloko kule mihla abagcini beebhanki kunye namanye amaziko emali, kwaye akukho sizathu sokuba uluntu luyinyamezele loo nto. Ngoku, okoko sizakubanayo loo nto, uyakufumana ezi zimo zengqondo ziphikisanayo njengokuncitshiswa kukarhulumente, ukucuthwa kwerhafu, kodwa ukwandisa yonke into endiyifunayo, eyona nto onayo ngoku.

 

UJAY: Enkosi kakhulu ngokudibana nathi. Kwaye enkosi ngokuzimanya nathi The Real News Network.

 

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