Olu dliwano-ndlebe lulandelayo no UMichael Lebowitz isanda kupapashwa kwi Novosti, iphephandaba elikwiphiko lasekhohlo laseZagreb, eCroatia.
UMichael A. Lebowitz ngunjingalwazi ophumayo kwezoqoqosho kwiYunivesithi yaseSimon Fraser eVancouver, eKhanada. Umbhali we Enye indlela yeSocialist, Ngaphaya Kwenkunzi: UQoqosho lwezoPolitiko lukaMarx lweKlasi eSebenzayo, Yakhe Ngoku: ISocialism kwiNkulungwane Yamashumi amabini ananye kwaye Ukulandela uMarx: Indlela, ukugxeka kunye neNgxaki. Wayengumlawuli, iNkqubo kwiNkqubo yoTshintsho kunye noPhuhliso loLuntu, iCentro Internacional Miranda, eCaracas, eVenezuela, ngo-2006-2011. Incwadi yakhe yamva nje ithi Ukuchasana kwe-Socialism "Yokwenene": umqhubi kunye nokuqhutywa, ikhutshwe phakathi kuJulayi 2012 ngu Uphononongo lweNyanga Press.
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Novosti: Yintoni esinokuyilindela kwithuba lesine likaHugo Chavez njengomongameli waseVenezuela?
UMichael Lebowitz: Ndicinga ukuba kubalulekile ukuqonda ubungakanani benguqu eyenzekileyo eVenezuela phantsi kweChavez. IVenezuela ibiluqoqosho lwabarenti, luxhomekeke kwingeniso yeoli; kwaye inkcubeko eyakhulela malunga nerenti yeoli [ngaphambi kokuba uChavez athathe ulawulo] ibe yeyorhwaphilizo kunye nokuthanda abathengi. I-Venezuela ihlupheke kakhulu ngenxa yemigaqo-nkqubo ye-neoliberal ebandakanya ukucuthwa kweenkonzo zentlalontle, ukupheliswa kwenkxaso-mali yezinto eziyimfuneko kunye nenkqubo jikelele yoshishino lwabucala. Imeko kwi-1990 yayiyintlekele - into engaqhelekanga kwiLatin America kuloo minyaka elishumi (kwaye ngokuqinisekileyo iyaziwa kakhulu ngoku eYurophu).
Xa uHugo Chavez wonyulwa ekupheleni kwelo shumi leminyaka, wangena kurhulumente ngenkxaso yemibutho yentlalontle kunye namahlwempu, kodwa kunye nomgangatho ophakathi owawuqonda ukuba le meko ayinakuqhubeka. (Ngelo xesha uChavez wayebiza ubungxowankulu obulungileyo, ukuphela kwe-neoliberalism, indlela yesithathu; wafunda njengoko wayehamba.)
Kwaye oko uChávez akwenzileyo kubaluleke kakhulu. Ngokukodwa, uye wafaka ingeniso yezibonelelo ezivela kwi-oyile kwimfundo kunye nempilo-into efunwa kakhulu ngabantu abahluphekayo, abangabo uninzi lwabantu abaninzi. La ngamanyathelo anokuqondwa njengowabantu abaninzi kodwa akwanelisa iimfuno zokwenyani zabantu kwaye anokuvumela amandla abo ukuba aphuhle.
Ukanti, ayilolwalathiso lobutyebi beoyile kuphela ebantwini oluye lwaba luphawu olukhethekileyo eVenezuela. Kukwakho nenkqubo ebaluleke kakhulu yokuxhobisa abantu - yokudala amaziko avumela abantu ukuba basebenze ngokwedemokhrasi kwaye benze izigqibo ezichaphazela ubomi babo.
Ndichaza, ngokukodwa, uphuhliso lwamabhunga oluntu, amaziko kwinqanaba lengingqi yengingqi apho abantu banamandla okujongana neengxaki ezichaphazela uluntu lwabo. La mabhunga adityanelweyo adibana ukuze enze iindibano zoluntu ukujongana neengxaki ezinkulu.
Le yinkqubo echazwe nguChavez njengenye yokudala iiseli zelizwe elitsha lobusoshiyali. Kananjalo, kukho inkqubo yophuhliso lwamabhunga abasebenzi. Apha kwakhona yinkqubo yokuguqula abantu, ukudala iimeko apho bakwazi ukuphuhlisa onke amandla abo. Ngokukodwa, i-Bolivarian Revolution idala abantu abanesidima kunye nekratshi.
Ezi yimpumelelo ebaluleke kakhulu. Kodwa azenzeki kakuhle, kwaye kubalulekile ukuqonda ukuba kukho ukuphikisana okuninzi ngaphakathi I-Chavism. Kukho amaqela amathathu kunye nemikhwa ngaphakathi I-Chavism. Omnye unokufunyanwa kwisiseko kunye nemibutho yentlalontle, uluntu kunye neenxalenye zabasebenzi. Enye iqulunqwe ngabo bantu kunye namaqela avuke kunye noChavez kodwa, emva kokuzityebisa ngezikhundla zabo kunye nokuqhubeka urhwaphilizo kunye nokuthanda abathengi, ngoku bacinga ukuba uguquko kufuneka luphelile - kwaye lulungele bona. (Amaxesha amaninzi abizwa ngokuba zii-“boli-bourgeoisie”.) Iqela lesithathu lizibophelele ekuqhubeleni phambili le revolution kodwa likwenza oko ngokupheleleyo ukusuka phezulu ukuhla; imbono yayo yenye yokuyalela ukuqhubela phambili kobusoshiyali, kwaye ayifuni ukushiya izigqibo emazantsi.
Ngelixa uChavez ngokwakhe ethetha kakhulu ngokubaluleka kwethiyori yokwakha kwisiseko kunye nokuvumela abantu ukuba baphuhlise amandla abo ngeprotagonism yabo, akanamonde kwaye uhlala exhasa abo bangaziqhelanisi ngokufanayo.
Ke, kuya kwenzeka ntoni kwixesha elizayo likaChavez lokuphatha? Oko kuxhomekeke kumzabalazo weklasi ngaphakathi kwinkampu yaseChavez. Iya kuba ngumzabalazo ojikeleza iqela lika-Chavez (i-United Socialist Party yaseVenezuela, i-PSUV), equlethe zonke ezi zinto kodwa apho ukuqhelaniswa okuphezulu kuye kwalawula kwaye kwangaxeshanye kwadanisa abantu abaninzi kwisiseko.
Ukucinga ukuba uChavez uyaqhubeka esempilweni entle, kunokwenzeka ukuba uguquko luya kwenziwa nzulu kwisiseko ngamaphulo akhe. Uyaziqonda iingxaki kwaye wagxininisa ukubaluleka kwiphulo lonyulo lokudala i-front phakathi kwe-PSUV, amanye amaqela asekhohlo kunye neentshukumo zentlalo. Ukuba uChavez akakho malunga nokudibanisa imikhosi eyahlukeneyo ngaphakathi kweChavism, nangona kunjalo, ndicinga ukuba kunokubakho umzabalazo omkhulu.
Kukho iindidi ezimbini zeenkqubo zoqoqosho nezopolitiko ezikhoyo namhlanje eVenezuela - i-socialist kunye ne-capitalist. Ngaba singakwazi ukuthetha ngenkqubo ehambelanayo nesebenzayo yentlalontle eVenezuela?
Ndicinga ukuba kubalulekile ukuqonda ukuba kusoloko kukho ukungahambelani kunye nokungasebenzi kakuhle kwinkqubo yotshintsho. Xa amalungu oluntu olutsha ehlala kunye nezinto zebutho elidala, ngalinye liyakhubaza elinye. Nganye isebenza ngokunengenelo enganeno kunokuba ibinokwenza xa enye ingekho. Ngokuhambelana nombono omdala, zonke iingxaki zokungahambelani zisisiphumo sokuzama ukwazisa entsha. Kwaye kwimbono entsha, zonke iingxaki zokungahambelani zisisiphumo sokuqhubeka kobukho bomdala.
Nangona inkqubo yokubuyisela ukuthengiswa kwamashishini abucala kunye nokwandisa icandelo likarhulumente, kunye nokudala amaziko amatsha okwenza izigqibo kuluntu kunye namanqanaba oshishino, i-capitalism isekhona kwiinkqubo zebhanki, kwiindawo ezinkulu zezolimo kwaye ngokukodwa ekuthengisweni kunye necandelo lokurhweba ngaphandle (i-import-processing sector). kwaye kunjalo nakumajelo eendaba abucala).
Ukuba iVenezuela iza kuhambela phambili ekwakheni uhlobo olutsha lobusoshiyali, ngokuqinisekileyo kufuneka yoyise ezi zinto zongxowankulu. Nangona kunjalo, andicingi ukuba oko kuyinto ephambili. Kum, eyona nto ibaluleke kakhulu ngeli xesha kukomeleza kunye nokwenza nzulu imiba yobusoshiyali ngokwandisa ulawulo lwabasebenzi kumacandelo karhulumente nokwandisa ukwenziwa kwezigqibo zedemokhrasi ukusuka ngezantsi. UChavez wenze intetho ebaluleke kakhulu kwiminyaka embalwa edlulileyo, ebhekisa kumacandelo karhulumente kwi-oyile, intsimbi, i-aluminium, intsimbi ekrwada, njl.njl. Uthe, “into esinayo ngoku bubungxowankulu bombuso. Ngaphandle kolawulo lwabasebenzi, awunakuba nesoshiyali.”
Ndiyavuma, kwaye ndicinga ukuba ukuqhubela phambili kwimibuzo enjalo yinxalenye ebalulekileyo yomzabalazo weklasi eVenezuela kunye nokuqhubela phambili inkqubo ngoku.
Kutshanje, siye sabona inkqubo kamabonwakude engonyulo lwaseVenezuela kumabonwakude wethu wesizwe [waseCroatia]. Ngaphezulu okanye ngaphantsi, bonke abathathi-nxaxheba kumboniso weTV bavumile ukuba uhlaziyo lwezentlalo olubonelelwa ngurhulumente weChavez luluhlobo oluthile lokunyoba kwezopolitiko olujoliswe kubantu abahluphekayo. Luthini uluvo lwakho malunga noku?
Ewe, andiqinisekanga ukuba utshintsho olunjalo lwentlalo luya kuba yinto embi, nokuba njengokunyotywa kwezopolitiko kuba bajongana nokunqongophala okukhulu kwezinto eziphathekayo kwabo bahluphekayo kwaye bahlawulela ulwaphulo-mthetho loorhulumente bangaphambili. Kodwa ngokuqinisekileyo kuninzi okungaphezulu koku.
Ngapha koko, ukubonelela ngezibonelelo zempilo, imfundo kunye nezindlu ezifanelekileyo zibalulekile ekudaleni iimeko apho abantu banako ukuphuhlisa amandla abo. Umntu unokukugxeka njani oku?
Thelekisa imigaqo-nkqubo enjalo kunye neenkqubo ezingqongqo ezohlwaya abantu (ingakumbi abahluphekayo) ngenxa yeentlekele ezidalwe bubungxowankulu! Thelekisa oku nemigaqo-nkqubo enyoba iibhanki! Ndicinga ukuba abathathi-nxaxheba kwezo nkqubo zikamabonwakude batyhila okungakumbi ngabo kunokuba batyhila ngezenzo zorhulumente waseChávez.
Inkqubo yoomasibambisane yayiyilwe njengenye indlela yongxowankulu abasemgangathweni. Ngaba kukho naluphi na uphuculo nenkqubela kulo mmandla?
Ndicinga ukuba xa kulinganiswa ngenani lookopolotyeni abaphumeleleyo, kukho imida emikhulu yokuxhomekeka kookopolotyeni abancinci njengenye indlela. Ookopolotyeni abaninzi abanjalo baye basilela okanye bayekile ukuqhubeka - njengamashishini amancinci kunye nookopolotyeni abancinci kwezinye iindawo.
Kukho iimeko ezisemaphandleni apho kukho iinkqubo zentsebenziswano ezinempumelelo kakhulu. Kodwa, ngokubanzi, ndicinga ukuba eyona nkalo ibaluleke kakhulu yenyathelo lokuqala lentsebenziswano eVenezuela kukuba amafelandawonye abe zizikolo zobusoshiyali - oko kukuthi, banike abantu amava kwinkqubo yokwenza izigqibo ngokwabo. Ndicinga ukuba eyona ndlela yokwenyani yongxowankulu iya kuba lulawulo lwabasebenzi kumashishini karhulumente.
Ngaba kukho nantoni na kwinkqubo yezentlalo nezopolitiko eVenezuela esinokuyisebenzisa kwimeko yezopolitiko yaseYurophu?
Ewe kunjalo! Awudingi ioli ukuze ube nedemokhrasi yeprotagonistic. Awudingi i-oyile ukwenza amabhunga oluntu kunye nee-communes ezithatha izigqibo malunga nommandla kunye noluntu. Awudingi ioyile ukwazisa ulawulo lwabasebenzi kunye nokungafihli ngokuvula iincwadi zawo onke amashishini kunye norhulumente.
I-Venezuela ithathe amanyathelo abalulekileyo okuphuhlisa idemokhrasi yeprotagonistic, idemokhrasi yoguquko apho abantu baguqula zombini iimeko zabo kunye neziqu zabo ngokwenza kwabo. Ikwenze oko kwilizwe elihlwempuzekileyo elinenkcubeko yokuthanda abathengi kunye norhwaphilizo. Ndicinga ukuba amazwe aseYurophu akwimeko yokuthatha loo ndlela inye ngaphandle kweengxaki ezifanayo.
Kuya kwenzeka ntoni nge “Revolution yaseBolivarian” kunye “nobusoshiyali benkulungwane yama-21” kwixesha elizayo?
Kunyulo luka-Oktobha 2012 eVenezuela, kwakuyimfuneko ngokupheleleyo ukoyisa inkcaso yasekunene, eyayifuna ukubuyisela iwotshi emva. Uloyiso lukaChavez lugcina ucango luvulekile lokuqhubela phambili kwenguqu yaseBolivarian. Olo loyiso lwalungabalulekanga nje kuphela kwiVenezuela kodwa kumazwe amaninzi aseLatin America – ingengabo kuphela abo rhulumente basondeleleneyo neVenezuela (njengeCuba, iBolivia ne-Ecuador) kodwa noorhulumente abomelezwe kukunyanzeliswa kweVenezuela phantsi kukaChavez phezu kweLatin America ezimeleyo. Kwaye ngokuqinisekileyo, kwakhona, kwiintshukumo zentlalo kwenye indawo eLatin America (kwaye kungekuphela nje iLatin America) apho inguqu yaseBolivarian inike ithemba.
Akukacaci okwangoku ukuba ingakanani le mpumelelo iza kunabela kunyulo lweerhuluneli zombuso kweyoMnga. Ikhonkco elithile uChávez liye laqulunqa nabantu abaninzi alidluli kubo bonke abaviwa beqela lakhe. Akuzange kube njalo. Kule meko, kwakhona, ezinye zezo zikhetho zabaviwa (ukhetho olwenziwa nguChávez kunye nabacebisi bakhe kwi-PSUV kunokuba bavela ngezantsi) abathandwa kakhulu kwisiseko; kwaye oku kunokukhokelela ekuthinteleni okubalulekileyo okanye ukuxhasa abanye abaviwa abasekhohlo abaxhasa i-revolution yaseBolivarian kodwa kungekhona iinkqubo zangaphakathi kunye nezenzo ze-PSUV.
Oku kusaza kubonakala kodwa ndicinga ukuba i-prognosis ngokubanzi yenye yomzabalazo obalulekileyo ngaphakathi kwe-Chavism.
I-ZNetwork ixhaswa ngemali kuphela ngesisa sabafundi bayo.
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