Tudliwano-ndlebe lwakhe lwenziwa kwi-ofisi kaNjingalwazi uNoam Chomsky eMassachusetts Institute of Technology eCambridge, Massachusetts.
I-Krauthamer: Njengelungu le-IWW yaseNew York, ndinomdla kwindlela abasebenzi abanokujongana ngayo nemiba ebangelwa yingxaki yezemali. Kwicwecwe lakho elithi "Ingxaki kunye neThemba: Eyabo kunye neyethu" kuPhononongo lweBoston, uthi "ingxaki yezemali ngokuqinisekileyo iya kulungiswa ngandlela thile, ngelixa ishiya amaziko ayidalileyo endaweni." Ukulandela oko, kuye kwakho ukwanda kwamva nje kwezenzo zokulwa kwiindawo zokusebenza, ngakumbi kulo lonke elaseYurophu, kodwa nakuMntla Merika. Njengoko usazi, iRiphabhlikhi yeeWindows kunye neeDoors Factory eChicago yayiyindawo yokuqala yokuhlala e-US ukusukela ngo-1930s.
CHOMSKY: Hayi, akunjalo. Uqhankqalazo luka-1979 ngokuchasene ne-US Steel e-Youngstown, e-Ohio yayingumsebenzi kwaye, eneneni, imodeli ekufuneka ilandelwe ngoku. Basuka ekubetheni baya kuzama ukuba abasebenzi kwaye uluntu luthathe iifektri ezishiyiweyo ezazidilizwa yi-U.S. Steel. Umzamo ongokwasemthethweni owalandelayo wawukhokelwa ligqwetha elikhulu lezabasebenzi uStaughton Lynd. Abazange baphumelele ezinkundleni, kodwa babenokuphumelela; ngebanenkxaso eyaneleyo. Kwakunokuba kuthetha lukhulu.
Oku kundikhokelela ekubeni ndibuze impendulo yabasebenzi ekudekweni kwabantu abaninzi. Babonakala bejonge iinzuzo zeparochial ngaphandle kokucinga ngendlela abanokuqhubela phambili ngayo kulawulo lwabasebenzi.
Nantso into ekufuneka yenziwe yi-IWW: ukubonelela ngentlantsi. Unyanisile, iyasebenza. Kodwa kwakunjalo nangogwayimbo lokuhlala phantsi ngeminyaka yee-1930. Isizathu sokuba olu qhankqalazo lubangele uloyiko olunjalo kwiintliziyo zabaphathi kukuba babesazi ukuba ugwayimbo lokuhlala phantsi lushiyekelwe linyathelo nje elinye lokuthatha lo mzi-mveliso.
Okwangoku i-IWW ifumana amanani kunye namandla kunye namandla, kodwa yonke intshukumo yabasebenzi baseMelika ayiboni ukuba sinzulu kakhulu. Kunzima ukusuka kule nto siyenzayo ngoku ukuya ekubeni yinxalenye yentshukumo ebanzi yabasebenzi e-U.S., okubalulekileyo ukuba siza kubonelela ngaloo ntlantsi.
I-US yahlukile kwiYurophu kunye namanye amazwe amashishini ngenxa yokuba i-US, kwinqanaba elingaqhelekanga, uluntu oluqhutywa ngoshishino. Kukho zonke iintlobo zezizathu zokuba-ayinayo imvelaphi ye-feudal, ngoko ke amaziko ahlala e-Europe awazange ahlale apha. Kodwa inyani yomcimbi kukuba i-US iqhutywa ngodidi olungaqhelekanga, iklasi yeshishini elizinikeleyo elinembali yabasebenzi enobundlobongela, embi kakhulu kunaseYurophu. Uhlaselo lwemibutho yabasebenzi luye lwagqithisa kakhulu apha kwaye lube yimpumelelo kakhulu. Kwakhona, ipropaganda echasene nemanyano yeshishini ibe nempumelelo kakhulu apha kunaseYurophu, naphakathi kwabantu abasebenzayo abanokuxhamla kwiimanyano.
Ngapha koko, eyona nkalo ibalaseleyo yepropaganda yeshishini e-United States kukudemon kukarhulumente. IMfazwe Yehlabathi yesiBini yaphela ngokudityaniswa kwenani labemi e-United States nakuyo yonke enye indawo, kwaye yabiza zonke iintlobo zezinto ezinje ngokuthathwa okudumileyo, ungenelelo lukarhulumente, kunye nokuthathwa kwabasebenzi kwiifektri. Ishishini lasasaza ipropaganda ekhubekisayo. Isikali sandothusa xa ndifunda i-scholarship-yayinkulu kwaye isebenze kakhulu. Kwakukho izinto ezimbini ekujoliswe kuzo: enye yayiyimibutho yabasebenzi, enye yayiyidemokhrasi. Kubo, idemokhrasi yayithetha ukwenza abantu bagqale urhulumente njengomkhosi wasemzini obaphangayo nabacinezelayo, kungekhona njengorhulumente wabo. Ngokomzekelo, kwidemokhrasi, usuku lokuhlawula iirhafu zakho, i-15 ka-Epreli, kufuneka ibe lusuku lokubhiyozela kuba nihlanganisana ukuze nibonelele ngezibonelelo kwiinkqubo enigqibe ngazo. Kodwa eUnited States, lusuku lokulila ngenxa yokuba lo mkhosi wasemzini-urhulumente uza kukuhlutha imali oyisebenze nzima. Esi sisimo sengqondo esiqhelekileyo kwaye luloyiso olukhulu kubachasi bedemokhrasi. Ngokuqinisekileyo, naliphi na icandelo elinelungelo liya kuyithiya idemokhrasi.
Ungayibona kwingxoxo yokhathalelo lwempilo. Uninzi lwabemi lucinga ukuba ukuba urhulumente uqhuba ukhathalelo lwezempilo, bayakuthatha inkululeko yakho. Ngaxeshanye, uluntu luthanda inkqubo yokhathalelo lwempilo yesizwe. Ukuphikisana akusonjululwanga ngandlel' ithile. Kwimeko yepropaganda yeshishini, iyamangalisa kakhulu kuba, ngelixa ishishini lifuna ukuba abantu bamthiye urhulumente, bafuna ukuba abantu bamthande urhulumente. Oko kukuthi, bathanda urhulumente onamandla kakhulu osebenza kumdla wabo. Ngoko kufuneka umthande loo rhulumente, kodwa umthiye urhulumente osenokusebenzela umdla wakho nonokukulawula. Lo ngumsebenzi wepropaganda onomdla, kodwa uye wenziwa kakuhle kakhulu. Oku unokukubona kunqulo lukaReagan, olumchaza njengomntu owasihlangula kurhulumente omkhulu. Enyanisweni, wayengumpostile karhulumente omkhulu, owakhula phantsi kweReagan. Wayengoyena mchasi onamandla kwiimarike zamahhala kwimbali yasemva kwemfazwe phakathi koomongameli. Kodwa akukhathaliseki ukuba yinyani; benza umfanekiso oqingqiweyo owawunqulwa ngabantu. Kunzima ukufezekisa oko, ngakumbi kuluntu olukhululekileyo, kodwa sele yenziwe, kwaye lolo hlobo lwento amatsha-ntliziyo kufuneka asebenze ngokuchasene nayo, kanye kumgangatho wevenkile. Ayilula kangako, kodwa yenziwe ngaphambili.
Uchazile ukuba ishishini liphaphile kakhulu. Ngaba unokucacisa?
Okufuneka ukwenze kukufunda uncwadi lweshishini. Ngeminyaka yee-1930 babesoyika kakhulu kwaye benenkxalabo malunga nendlela ukunyuka kwamandla esihlwele okwakuyingozi ngayo koosomashishini. Basebenzisa intetho ethe ngqo yobuMarxistโimilinganiselo nje yatshintshwa. Uncwadi lunjaloโbahlala bethetha ngenginginya yabantu, ingozi abayibangelayo nendlela yokulawula. Bacinezela imigaqo-nkqubo esebenzela iimfuno zabo. Umzekelo, amashishini einshorensi kunye neebhanki ezinkulu zichulumancile ngokupheleleyo ngokuโkumaphepha oshishino azifihli nokuyifihlaโkuba ziphumelele ukuphuma engxakini zomelele ngakumbi kunokuba zazinjalo ngaphambili kwaye zikwimeko engcono beka isiseko sengxaki elandelayo. Kodwa abakhathali kuba baya kukhutshelwa ngaphandle kwakhona. Olo lulwazi lweklasi kunye nempindezelo.
Ndingathi ngoku basebenzisa i-propaganda ngakumbi kwi-union-busting kunamaqhinga obundlobongela. Ngaba ungavuma?
Kangangexesha elithile, emva kweMfazwe Yehlabathi yesiBini, xa kukho inkxaso eyomeleleyo yezabasebenzi, oku kwenziwa ngobuchule. Kodwa ukusukela kuReagan, yenziwe ngokuphandle. UReagan wayezithiyile iimanyano zabasebenzi yaye wayefuna zitshatyalaliswe. Oku kwaqala ngogwayimbo lwabalawuli bezithuthi zomoya kwaye baqhubekeka ukusuka apho. Ulawulo lweReagan luxelele abezoshishino ukuba abazukuyinyanzelisa imithetho yezabasebenzi. Inani lokudutyulwa ngokungekho mthethweni liphindaphindeke kathathu kwiminyaka yeReagan. Kungelo xesha apho waqala khona ukufumana ezi nkampani zikhethekileyo kwindlela yokutshabalalisa imibutho. Abayenzi imfihlo kwaye banazo zonke iintlobo zeendlela zokulawula ukutshabalalisa imibutho. Ukufika kukaClinton, yamodareyitha kancinci, kodwa uClinton wayenesixhobo esahlukileyo sokwaphula iimanyano ezibizwa ngokuba yi-NAFTA. Ngenxa yokuba urhulumente wayengenamthetho ngokupheleleyo, abaqeshi banokusebenzisa i-NAFTA ukusongela abaququzeleli beemanyano ngokutshintshela. Akukho mthethweni, kodwa xa unorhulumente ongenamthetho, akunandaba nokuba akukho mthethweni. Ndicinga ukuba inani lemibutho evaliweyo linyuke malunga nama-50 ekhulwini.
Siyabona ukuba kwi-IWW, ngakumbi kwi-Starbucks Workers Union, i-Starbucks iya kukhupha zonke iintlobo ze-propaganda ezichasene nomanyano ikakhulu ukuxelela abasebenzi ukuba abayidingi imanyano.
Bangcono ngaphandle kwayo, ngumgca we-Whole Foods.
Kunene, basebenzisa umgca woxanduva lwentlalontle kwaye uninzi lwayo lusebenza kakhulu. Ngoko ke, thina, njengomanyano oluncinane nozimele geqe, sinokusebenza njani ukulwa nobo buxoki?
Kuya kufuneka wenze abantu balungelelanise kwaye ubaxelele inyani. Akukho maqhinga omlingo kuyo. Imeko eyothusayo yoku yayiyimeko yeCaterpillar ekuqaleni koo-1990. I-Caterpillar yayibaluleke kakhulu kuba yayilishishini lokuqala lokuvelisa elasebenzisa iindlela zoqhankqalazo lweReaganite. Babiza ookhwekhwe ngokungekho semthethweni ukuze kwaphule uqhankqalazo olukhulu. Kwaxelwa kakuhle kwi Chicago Tribune, eveze ukuba abasebenzi bafumana inkxaso encinci kakhulu ePeoria ngethuba amakhwekhwe aqhankqalaza ngokungekho mthethweni. Oko kwakunentsingiselo ngakumbi ngenxa yokuba lonke uluntu lwakhiwe ngumanyanoโyayiluluntu olusekelwe kumanyano. Kodwa xa kufikelelwa kwingxaki, uluntu aluzange luwuxhase umanyano. Ngoku loo nto inomdla ngo-Obama, kuba wayefanele ukuba ngumququzeleli woluntu eChicago ngelo xesha. Ndiqinisekile ukuba wayifunda Chicago Tribune, ngoko wayeyazi loo nto. Xa wayeyokubonisa umanyano lwakhe nabasebenzi, indawo yokuqala awaya kuyo yaba kuCaterpillar. Andiqondi ukuba ukhohliwe kwaye intshukumo yabasebenzi ayizange iphendule. Nkqu nababhali-mbali bezemisebenzi abazange bakhumbule. Kwakuyiminyaka eyi-15 kuphela eyadlulayo, emva kwayo yonke loo nto, kodwa luloyiso lokwenyani lwepropaganda ngeendlela ezininzi.
Kungumsebenzi omninzi ukwakha ngokutsha ukhubekiso oluqinileyo lwabasebenzi, kodwa kwenzekile ngaphambili. Ngeminyaka yee-1920 intshukumo yabasebenzi yaphantse yatshatyalaliswa ngokupheleleyo, kodwa yaphinda yavuselelwa ngeminyaka yee-1930 yaza yatshintsha kakhulu. Izinto zinokwenzeka, kodwa kungekhona ngokwazo. Emva koko wawuneQela lamaKomanisi elalilungile entliziyweni yamalungelo oluntu kunye nokulwela abasebenzi njalo njalo, kodwa kukho enye into ekufuneka ibonelele ngayo. Awufuni ukuba nonqulo lwabo lwaseRashiya, kodwa ekhaya babenerekhodi entle kakhulu. Ndiyikhumbula kakuhle kwasebuntwaneni, kuba usapho lwam ubukhulu becala yayingabantu bomanyano.
Utata wakho wayekwi-IWW, akunjalo?
Wafika njengomphambukeli kwaye wayengasazi nasiphi na isiNgesi. Waya kusebenza kwi-sweatshop eBaltimore. Wandixelela emva kwexesha ukuba lo mfo uyeza kwaye lo mfana ubonakala ngathi ngowabasebenzi, ngoko wabhalisa. Kwavela ukuba umfana wayengumququzeleli we-IWW. Ubawo akazange azisole ngokubhalisa; ebengayazi nje ukuba kuqhubeka ntoni.
Wayekweliphi ishishini?
Andazi ukuba ndakhe ndazi-i-sweatshop eBaltimore. Ndandisazi nezinye izalamane zam. Abanye babasetyhini bebekwi-International Ladiesโ Garment Workersโ Union kwaye amadoda ibingamakhwenkwe evenkileni nezinto ezinjalo. Kwenzeka ukuba ndandisePhiladelphia, kodwa yonke intsapho yayiseNew York. Ndandiyibona into eyenziwa yimanyano kubo. Kwasindisa ubomi babo. Ndandinoomakazi ababini ababengabathungi nababengaphangeli ngeminyaka yoo-1930, kodwa umanyano lwabanika ubomi. Babeneeveki ezimbalwa kweli lizwe kwaye babeneenkqubo zemfundo kunye nazo zonke iintlobo zezinto. Kwakukho uluntu lokwenene. Kwaye babengamalungu eQela lamaKomanisiโbabengakhathali nangayiphi na indlela ngeRashiya, babeyikhathalele nje iUnited States.
Ukuba ubunecebiso elinye lokunika izizukulwana ezizayo zeWobblies, ibiya kuba yintoni?
Xa ndigoduka ngokuhlwanje ndiza kuba neeleta ezili-15 ezivela ikakhulu kubantwana abancinci abangakuthandiyo okwenzekayo nabafuna ukwenza okuthile ngako. Bandibuza enoba ndingabacebisa kusini na ngoko bafanele bakwenzeโokanye ndingabaxelela into abafanele bayifunde okanye enye into. Ayisebenzi njalo. Kuxhomekeke kakhulu ekubeni ungubani na, yintoni na imilinganiselo yakho, ukuba zithini izibophelelo zakho, zeziphi iimeko ohlala kuzo, kwaye zeziphi na iinketho ozimisele ukuzenza. Oko kumisela into ekufuneka uyenzile.
Nangona kunjalo, kukho iingcamango eziqhelekileyo kakhulu abantu abanokugcina engqondweni; baluhlobo lwe truisms. Kufanelekile ukukhankanya ngenxa yokuba bahlala benqatshelwe. Okokuqala, musa ukukholelwa nantoni na oyivayo kwiinkqubo zamandla. Ukuba u-Obama okanye umphathi okanye amaphephandaba okanye nabani na ongomnye ukuxelela ukuba bayayenza le nto, leya, okanye enye into, iyayichitha okanye ucinge ukuba into eyahlukileyo iyinyani, ehlala injalo. Kuya kufuneka uthembele kuwe nakwizihlobo zakho. Uphumelela ngomzabalazo kwaye oko kufuna ukuqonda kunye nohlalutyo olunzulu lweenketho kunye neemeko, kwaye ke unokwenza okuninzi.
Thatha kanye ngoku, umzekelo. Kukho uvukelo lwe-right-wing populist. Kuxhaphake kakhulu, nokuba ngasekhohlo ukubahlekisa. Kodwa asiyompendulo ichanekileyo leyo. Ukuba ujonga abo bantu kwaye umamele koonomathotholo abathetha, aba ngabantu abanezikhalazo zokwenene. Ndimamela ukuthetha unomathotholo kakhulu kwaye luhlobo olunomdla. Ukuba unokunqumamisa ulwazi lwakho lwehlabathi kwaye ungene nje kwihlabathi labantu abafowunayo, unokubaqonda. Andizange ndasibona isifundo, kodwa ingqiqo yam kukuba aba ngabantu abaziva bebuhlungu ngokwenene. Aba bantu bacinga ukuba, "Ndenze yonke into ngokufanelekileyo ubomi bam bonke, ndingumKristu owoyika uthixo, ndimhlophe, ndiyindoda, ndisebenze nzima, kwaye ndiphethe umpu. Ndenza yonke into ekufanele ndiyenze. Kwaye ndiya kuphelelwa. โ Kwaye, enyanisweni, baya kuhlatywa. Kangangeminyaka engama-30 imivuzo yabo idodobala okanye yehla, iimeko zentlalo ziye zaba mandundu, abantwana bayaphambana, akukho zikolo, akukho nto, ngoko kumele ukuba kukho umntu obenza okuthile kubo, yaye bafuna ukwazi ukuba ngubani. URush Limbaugh uphendule wathi: zizityebi zenkululeko ezingabanini beebhanki kwaye ziqhuba urhulumente kwaye ziqhuba amajelo eendaba. Abakhathali ngawe. Bafuna nje ukunika yonke into kubaphambukeli abangekho mthethweni kunye namafanasini namakomanisi njalo njalo.
Indlela esisabela ngayo kubo ayikokugculela, kodwa kukuzigxeka. Thina singabo kufanele ukuba sibaququzelele, hayi uRush Limbaugh. Kukho ii-analogs zembali, ezingachanekanga, ngokuqinisekileyo, kodwa zisondele ngokwaneleyo ukuba zibe yinkxalabo. Lo ngumbono weJamani yamaNazi. UHitler wayebhenela kumaqela anezikhalazo ezifanayo kwaye ewanika iimpendulo eziphambeneyo, kodwa ubuncinane babezimpendulo: oko kukuthi, babeka ityala kumaYuda kunye namaBolshevik. Babeyingxaki.
Iidemokhrasi zeLiberal azizukuxelela umndilili waseMelika, "Ewe, ukhutshiwe ngenxa yemigaqo-nkqubo esiyisekileyo kule minyaka siyigcinayo ngoku." Ayizukuba yimpendulo leyo. Kwaye abafumani mpendulo ukusuka ekhohlo. Kukho ukuhambelana kwangaphakathi kunye nengqiqo kwinto abayifumana eLimbaugh, uGlenn Beck, kunye nabanye aba bafana. Kwaye bavakala bekholisa kakhulu, bazithemba kakhulu, kwaye banempendulo kuyo yonke into-impendulo ephambeneyo, kodwa yimpendulo. Kwaye lityala lethu ukuba oko kuyaqhubeka. Ke, into enye ekufuneka yenziwe kukuba, musani ukubagculela aba bantu, nizibandakanye nabo, nithethe ngezikhalazo zabo zokwenyani nibanike impendulo enengqiqo, njengokuthi, โThatha iifektri zakho.โ
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UDiane Krauthamer ulilungu le-IWW kunye nomvelisi wefilimu Sikunye siyaphumelela: Umlo wokuQuquzelela iStarbucks. Olu dliwano-ndlebe luhlelwe ubude kunye nokucaca. Ukumamela udliwano-ndlebe olupheleleyo, nceda undwendwele authoritysmashers.wordpress.com. Enkosi kwiCharngchi Way kunye ne "Authority Smashing! Iyureโ inkqubo kanomathotholo.