Vanhu vekuAmerica vari kugara mudunhu reOrwellian vanopokana director weAcademy Award-Oliver Stone uye munyori wenhoroondo Peter Kuznick, apo vanogara pasi neRT kuti vakurukure mutemo weUS wekunze uye kusateera kwehutongi hwemutemo kwehutongi hwaObama.

Vese vanopokana kuti VaObama imhumhi yakapfeka makushe ehwai uye kuti vanhu vakamuregerera zvakanyanya nekuda kwe "zvinotyisa zvehutungamiriri hwaBush hwakamutangira."

"Akatora shanduko dzese dzeBush akadziisa mukugadzwa, akadzinyora," Stone akaudza RT. "Inyika yeOrwellian. Inogona kunge isingadzvanyiriri pamusoro, asi hapana pekuhwanda. Chimwe chikamu chako chichapedzisira chave mudhatabhesi kune imwe nzvimbo. "

Sekureva kwaKuznick, vagari vemuAmerica vanogara mutangi rehove umo hurumende yavo inobata mameseji anopfuura bhiriyoni 1.7 pazuva. "Ndiyo email, nhare, dzimwe nzira dzekutaurirana."

RT's Abby Martin muchirongwa Kupwanya Seti inokurukura Showtime firimu firimu uye bhuku rakanzi The Untold History yeUnited States rakanyorwa pamwe naOliver Stone naPeter Kuznick.

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"Obama aive tariro huru yekuchinja"

RT: Zvakakutorerai mese makore anoda kusvika mashanu kugadzira iyi nhevedzano. Uye mairi mune chitsauko chinonzi Obama: Management of a Wounded Empire. Iwe unopa kutsoropodza kwakaomarara kwekutonga kwaObama. Chii mumaziso ako chave chiri kunyanya kunetsa pahutungamiriri hwake, Oliver?

Oliver Stone: Ndinofunga pasi pekufuka kwehupfeko yehwai anga ari mhumhi. Kuti nekuda kwehope dzehutungamiriri hwaBush dzakamutangira, vanhu vakamuregerera zvikuru. Akanga ari tariro huru yekuchinja. Ruvara rweganda rake, kurerwa, kudyidzana nedzimwe nyika, kudyidzana kwenyika yose, zvaiita sezviri pachena. Uye murume akangwara. Atora shanduko dzese dzeBush dzaakaisa mukugadzwa, akadzinyora. Ndizvo zvinosuwisa. Saka tave kupinda muutongi hwechipiri huri kurarama kunze kwemutemo uye isingaremekedze mutemo nenheyo dzehurongwa hwedu uye igweta rebumbiro, munoziva. Pasina mutemo, mutemo wesango. Nuremburg yaivepo nechikonzero uye pakanga paine chikonzero chekuve nemiedzo, pane chikonzero chekuita kwakakodzera - 'habeas corpus' sezvavanoidaidza kuUnited States. 

RT: Unobvumirana naPetro here?

Peter Kuznick: Ndinobvuma, kana ukatarisa mutemo wake wepamba, haana kutyora mitemo yeBush management. Ukatarisa kujeka kwake - aizviti ndiye mutungamiri wenyika apo aikwikwidza chigaro. Pange pasina kubuda pachena. Isu tanga tichiisa mamwe magwaro pasi paObama kupfuura atakaita pasi paBush. Vatungamiri vese vakapfuura pakati pa1970 na2008 vakapomera vanhu vatatu pasi peEspionage Act. VaObama vakatopomera vanhu vatanhatu mhosva pasi pemutemo weEspionage Act. Kuongororwa hakuna kumira, kusungwa pasina kuendesa vanhu kumatare hakuna kumira. Saka mitemo iyoyo yakaenderera mberi.

Zvino kune mitemo yehondo, mitemo yehondo. Isu tiri kuchengetedza izvozvo. Tiri kurwa hondo zvino muYemen, Afghanistan, tiri kuchengeta mauto muAfghanistan. Hatina kucheka zvinhu izvo isu tese takaona zvichisemesa nezvekutonga kwaBush uye Obama akawedzera zvake. Iyo drones policy - Obama akave nekurwiswa kwakawanda mumwedzi misere yekutanga kupfuura Bush aive nehutungamiriri hwake hwese. Uye izvi zvine pamutemo wepasirese unokahadzika.  

Os: Peter aive netarisiro yekuti mutemu yechipiri pachave nekumwe kuchinjika, tinovimba zvakadaro. Asi, pane system iripo, iyo yakakura - iyo Pentagon system. 

RT: Zvinoita sekunge vakatora iyo inosemesa CIA marongero uye vakangoitumidza, saka zvave kutenderwa - kuponda, muurayi asina mhosva pasina maitiro akakodzera. Zvinofadza.

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"Tese tiri kuzviona isu"

PK: Takanyunyuta mumakore eBush kuti Bush ainyatso ongorora pasina ongororo yematare. VaObama vari kuuraya vanhu, vakananga kuuraya pasina ongororo yematare. Izvo kwatiri zviri pachena zvakanyanya zvakanyanya.

RT: Iwe zvakare unovhara Pearl Harbor, izvo zvakatungamira mukuvharirwa kwevagari vekuJapan vekuAmerica. Ini handifunge kuti vanhu vazhinji vanobvuma kuti zvakare vakasataurirwa chikamu cheizvo zvairevei. Ukatarisa gidhi rekuongorora muAmerica nhasi rinoita senge musasa wevasungwa wakavhurika, uko vasingachadi kudzidzisa vanhu zvakare nekuti isu tine grid rakamiswa panzvimbo. Imi varume munofungei nazvo?

PK: Hurumende yeUS ikozvino inotambira mameseji anopfuura bhiriyoni 1.7 pazuva kubva kuvagari vemuAmerica. Ndiyo email, nharembozha, dzimwe nzira dzekutaurirana. Unogona kufungidzira: 1.7 bhiriyoni? Tave nemudziyo uyu wakamisikidzwa zvino nemazana ezviuru zvevanhu, vanopfuura miriyoni yevanhu vane mvumo yepamusoro yekuchengetedza murudzi urwu rwehusiku, iyi 1984 rudzi rwenyika.

Os: Miriyoni imwe yepamusoro yekuchengetedza mvumo. Ndiyo nhamba inorema chaizvo. Mune mamwe mazwi, isu tiri kugara muhove dziva uye ndinofunga chinosuruvarisa ndechekuti vechidiki vanobvuma izvozvo. Vajaira kupindirwa. Uye ichokwadi, tingatevedzera sei hupenyu hwemunhu wese? Asi chokwadi ndechekuti tose tinopedzisira tazvitarisa. Iyo inyika yeOrwellian. Inogona kunge isingadzvanyiriri pamusoro, asi hapana pekuhwanda. Chimwe chikamu chako chinozopedzisira chiri mudhatabhesi kumwe kunhu.

"US inotya zvinhu, isu tinotya nyika yese"

PK: Uye inogona kudzvinyirira pamusoro. Chimwe chinhu chataitya mushure me9/11 ndechekuti kana pakaitika kurwiswa kwechipiri kwakakomba senge 9/11 ipapo bumbiro remutemo rinopera. Kuparadza kwacho kwaizova kwakashata zvikuru panguva iyoyo. Uye kuchine kutya kwakanyanyisa uku. IUS inotya zvinhu, isu tinotya nyika yese. Isu tinopedza mari yakawanda pahungwaru hwedu hwekuchengetedza mauto sekusanganiswa kwepasirese. Tine vavengi vatinonzwa tichityisidzirwa navo here? Tinoda izvi here? Izvi ndizvo zvatinofanira kukoshesa here? Aiwa isu hatifungi, tinoda kushandura izvozvo.

RT: Kubviswa kwehutongo hwemutemo, kunyanya mutemo weNational Defence Authorization Act, uyo unobvisa maitiro akakodzera - rusununguko rwedu rwakakosha munyika ino. Ndaida kuunza imwe pfungwa inofadza iyo yakandibaya mwoyo mumutsara wefirimu, avo vari vatyairi vekamikaze. Vakanga vakashinga, icho chaiva chiito cheushingi chawaigona kuita uye ipapo ini handigoni kuita kunze kwekufunga nezvekuzviuraya mabhomba nhasi uye Bill Maher, anobuda uye anorasikirwa nekuratidzira kwake nokuti vanhu ava vakashinga. Uye iwe une vanhu vakaita saRon Paul vanosimuka ipapo votaura nezve blowback sechokwadi uye anosekwa. Takasvika sei pano, uko hurukuro yacho yakangorerutswa zvakadaro isu tisingakwanisi kana kubvuma chokwadi chakadaro?

Os: Primitive chokwadi. Kwave nekunamatwa kweupofu kwemauto uye kuda nyika. Ini ndinotenda zvakasimba muuto rakasimba, asi kudzivirira nyika yedu, kwete kurwisa dzimwe nyika uye kukunda nyika. Ndinofunga kuti pane musiyano mukuru wakakanganwa: tsika. Ukangobvisa mitemo, sezvakambotaurwa naEinstein nemukurumbira, nyika haiteerere mitemo yayo, mitemo yacho inoshorwa. Saka zvinoita sekunge hutsika hwakakosha hwakarasika patiri pane imwe nzvimbo munzira munguva pfupi yapfuura uye ikozvino ndiyo inoshanda. Tinogona here kuuraya Bin Laden tisina kumuunza kudare, tingangozviita here? Uye iyo 'idzike' pfungwa inoruramisa migumo uye ndiko uko nyika dzinotadza, uye vanhu vanoenda zvisirizvo. Hupenyu hwedu hwese kuenzanisa kwetsika. Kuguma kunoruramisa nzira here? Aiwa, hazvina kumbodaro.

PK: Uye rimwe divi rezvauri kubvunza ndezvezvipingaidzo pahurukuro dzezvematongerwo enyika munyika ino. Sei vanhu vasina ruzivo? Ndizvo zvatinofanira kubata nazvo munhevedzano. Kana vanhu vasinganzwisisi nhoroondo yavo, saka havana chero chiratidzo cheramangwana uye izvo zvinogoneka. Kana vakafunga zviripo iye zvino - hudzvinyiriri hwezvino - ndizvo zvese zvinogoneka, saka havagone kurota nezveramangwana. Havagoni kufungidzira ramangwana rakasiyana nerazvino. Ndizvo zvandiri kutaura – vanhu vanofanira kunzwisisa zvakapfuura nokuti kana ukadzidza zvakapfuura unogona kuona ramangwana rakasiyana zvikuru.

Takaswedera pedyo chaizvo pazviitiko zvakawanda kuti tiende munzira yakasiyana zvikuru mune ramangwana. Takaswedera pedyo zvikuru muna 1944-1945 kudzivirira bhomba reatomu uye nekusave nerudzi rweCold War yataive nayo. Takaswedera pedyo zvikuru muna 1953 pakafa Stalin kusvika pakugumisa Hondo Yemashoko. Takaswedera pedyo muna 1963 apo Kennedy akapondwa kuti apedze hondo muVietnam, kupedza Hondo Yemashoko, kuenda kune imwe nzira yakasiyana zvikuru. Ipapo pakanga paine makore eCarter, zvakare mukana weimwe nzira. Uye pakupera kweCold War muna 1989 Gorbachev aisvika kuBush. Ko Bush akatora bazi remuorivhi iro Gorbachev aimupa? Aiwa, zvakasiyana zvikuru. Takaitei panzvimbo? Tinorumbidza maSoviet nekusapindira apo nyika dzaizvisunungura kubva kuSoviet Union tobva tangoenda kunorwisa Panama tobva tapinda muIraq.

Saka isu tiri kuti "zvikuru kuti muri kuzvidzora, asi isu hatisi kuenda nekuti isu tiri hegemon." Sekutaura kunoita Madeline Albright, Secretary of State pasi pa{Bill] Clinton, anoti “kana US ikashandisa chisimba imhaka yekuti tiri United States of America; isu tiri rudzi runokosha. Isu tinoona zvakanyanya uye tinomira kureba kupfuura mamwe marudzi. " Ndiwo mafungiro atiri kunetsa ini naOliver. Iyi pfungwa yekusarudzika kweAmerica yekuti US iguta riri pachikomo, chipo chaMwari kuvanhu, kana tikazviita, ndizvozvo. Uye izvozvo hazvigamuchirwi.  

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"Tinoda kuti nyika itange kufunga nezvemibvunzo mikuru zvakare"

Os: Zvinosekesa nekuti bhuku rabuda masvondo mashoma, series dzave kutamba kwesvondo rechishanu izvozvi. Isu tinoenda kumitambo yeTV, tinogara mune idzi dzakanaka seti uye dzinogara dzichimhanya nekumhanya. Vane nhau muGaza, vakawana Obama. Uye vanotibvunza kuti uri kutaura nezvei? Nhoroondo? Zvinei nazvo nhasi? Pfungwa yako ndeipi? Isu tinogara ipapo nemoyo murefu uye zvinondishamisa kwazvo kuti vanoti zvakapfuura ndezvekutanga, ndizvo zvakaitika kare uye kana takangwara unozviona zvakadzikama uye usingawedzere. Isu tinopikisawo kuti mhando yenhepfenyuro iyi inosundwa nemadhora, makaro. Iwe une show uye haisi yenhau show, ndeye rating uye kuti ungazviwana sei - nekumhanya kwakawanda, zoom yakawanda uye akawanda emhando dzemaseti uye vanhu vanoona. Chinangwa ndechekuita kuti irambe ichifamba, usafunga, ingoramba ichifamba.

PK: Chiratidziro chakadai, tinogona kunyatso kukurukura nyaya dzacho nedzakadzama, zvishoma zvishoma.

RT: Kana mose muri vaviri muchizogadzira firimu pamusoro pechizvarwa chino, ndechipi chikamu chimwe chete chamunofunga kuti ndicho chinonyanya kushumwa kana kumiririrwa zvisiri izvo?

Os: Handizive nezvechizvarwa chechidiki, ndine vana vatatu. Ndinofunga kuti inyaya isingaperi mune imwe nhanho. Vanhu zvisinei kuti chii vane tsika dzakafanana uye kuziva, maitiro anobuda zvakare uye zvakare. Majaya nemhandara vanoda kupinda munyika. Uye hakusi kure zvakadaro nezvatakasangana nazvo. Saka ndinotenda munhoroondo yecyclical uye ndinofunga vana vangu varikusangana nezvandakasangana nazvo ini nababa naamai. Ndinogara ndichitsvaga iwo mapatani kutanga kupfuura zvepamusoro.

PK: Ndinoona kuti vadzidzi vangu vane hanya zvikuru nezviri kuitika munyika. Vese vari kuita mabasa akawanda ekuzvipira. Asi chandinowana muchizvarwa chino, saOliver uye chizvarwa changu, ndechekuti vanorapa zviratidzo. Havasi kubvunza mibvunzo pamusoro pechisakiso chezvinetso zvose izvi. Vane hanya, vanoedza kushandura zvinhu, asi zviri pamusoro.

Zvatiri kuvadenha kuti vaite kutarisa mapatani. Tarisa pane zvakaitika kubva kuma1890 kusvika nhasi. Tarisa kuenderana kwehondo, kupindira, kushandiswa kwemauto, paranoia, vanotya vekunze, kudzvinyirirwa. Uye zviendese kumudzi, chii chiri kuita kuti hurongwa hwese hurware neimwe nzira uye tingabvisa sei izvo zvakadzika zvikonzero.

Zvino zvatanzwisisa izvozvo, tinogona kutanga kuchinja izvozvo. Bato reOccupy rakaita zvimwe zvacho kwave kune dzimwe nguva muma1930, 1970-80, 1960 apo vanhu vaidenha pachiyero ichocho. Tinoda kuti nyika itange kufunga nezvemibvunzo mikuru iyi zvakare. Chii chatakaita kare, takasvika sei pano, ndezvipi zvinogoneka mune ramangwana, chii chatakanganisa uye chii chatingawane chakanaka?

RT: Iwe unofunga kuti izvi zvepamusoro-soro muuchenjeri hwemazuva ose hwatinonzwa zvinopfuuridzirwa kuti tirambe tiri muhondo isingaperi?

PK: Handizive kana zvirizvo nemaune, asi zvinoita sekunge ndizvo zvinokonzeresa - kudzikisira huwandu hwevanhu kusvika pavanenge vasingagone kufunga zvakadzama uyezve unogona kudhonza chero chinhu pameso avo. Vane nhambo yokungwarira yamaminiti mashanu uye ndangariro yamaminiti mashanu yezvakaitika munguva yakapfuura. Isu tiri kuti dzidza nhoroondo yako, dzidza uye funga nezve izvo zvingasarudzwa, funga nenzira dzisiridzo kuti nyika ingave yakasiyana sei, zvingave nani kana tikatanga kuronga zvine musoro mukufarira kwevanhu, kwete mukufarira. yemhindu, kwete mukufarira kweWall Street, kwete mukufarira kwemauto, mukufarira kwedu vanhuwo zvavo, mabhiriyoni matanhatu edu anogara pasi rino. 

Os: Iyo modhi yenhevedzano yeNyika paHondo, iyo yakagadzirwa neBBC muma1970 nezve WWII. Yedu ndeye gumi maficha mafirimu, akachekwa nekungwarira, awa imwe neimwe, kurondedzera kwakachena, mimhanzi, uye dzimwe nguva zvimedu zvemafirimu anoita pfungwa yedu kana kusaburitsa pfungwa yedu. Chero nzira yatinoedza kuita kuti irambe ichiyerera kunge wechidiki anganakirwe sebhaisikopo, ndinofara kuti wakadaro.

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