Kwakabva: Democracy Now!
Vakuru muIndia vanoti maguta makuru matanhatu ikoronavirus inopisa nzvimbo, kusanganisira guta guru, New Delhi. Isu tinoenda ikoko kunotaura nemunyori uye muratidziri Arundhati Roy, ane chinyorwa chitsva chekuti "Danda Iro Portal." Anoti, "Une pfungwa yekuti wakagara pane chimwe chinhu chinoputika," uye anotsanangura mashandisiro ari kuita hurumende yeNarendra Modi denda kurwisa vanopikisa uye vanopikisa.
AMY MURUME AKANAKA: Ichi chi Dememocracy Zvino!, democracynow.org, Iyo Yekuparadzanisa Chirevo. Ini ndiri Amy Goodman, naNermeen Shaikh. Isu tave kutendeukira kuIndia, uko vakuru vakuru vanoti maguta makuru matanhatu inzvimbo dzinopisa dzekoronavirus, tichidzidaidza kuti nzvimbo dzvuku, kusanganisira guta guru, New Delhi, uye nzvimbo yezvemari, Mumbai. Nyika ine vanhu vanopfuura mazana mana nemakumi maviri vafa, zviuru gumi nezviviri, hutachiona, kunyangwe huwandu uhu hunogona kunge hwakakwira zvakanyanya nekuda kwekushaikwa kwekuyedzwa.
Izvi zvinouya apo masangano erusununguko rwevatori venhau uye mapoka erusununguko ari kuridza aramu kuti hurumende yeNarendra Modi iri kushandisa denda re coronavirus kurwisa vanopikisa uye vanopikisa. Mwedzi uno, mapurisa akasunga mutori wenhau ane mukurumbira, Siddharth Varadarajan, achimupomera mhosva yekuparadzira "kupokana" uye "runyerekupe," mushure mekunge ashora mumwe wezvematongerwo enyika wechiHindu nekuita mhemberero dzechitendero nevanhu vakawanda panguva yekuvharwa kwenyika. Kumwe kunhu, muratidziri Anand Teltumbde, ane makore makumi matanhatu nemapfumbamwe ekuberekwa, uye mutori wenhau Gautam Navlakha, ane makore makumi matanhatu nemanomwe, vakasungwa neChipiri vachipomerwa mhosva dzavanoti manyepo. Teltumbde akanyora tsamba yakazaruka kuvanhu veIndia manheru ekusungwa kwake, achiti, โHandizivi kuti ndichakwanisa kutaura newe rinhi zvakare. Zvisinei, ndinovimba kuti muchataura nguva yenyu isati yasvika,โ akadaro.
Mutungamiriri weModi akazivisa kuvharika kweIndia munyika yese, zvichibata vanhu bhiriyoni imwe nemazana matatu - yakakura pane chero nguva pasirese - yakazivisa kuti ichawedzerwa kusvika Chivabvu. KuMumbai, mazana evashandi vanobva kune dzimwe nyika vakasiya vasina pekugara uye vasina mabasa nekuvharika vakaita kuratidzira neChipiri vachida kuti hurumende iunze chikafu nerubatsiro.
SHAHBAZ: [yakaturikirwa] Hapana chatiri kuwana pano. Hurumende yakavimbisa kupa mari nezvimwe zvinobatsira, uye hapana zvati zvasvitswa.
SHABANA: [yakaturikirwa] Hatina zvekuita izvozvi. Tine vana vaduku, uye havasi kuwana chokudya. Tinofanira kuitei?
AMY MURUME AKANAKA: Kuti uwane zvimwe, tinoenda kuNew Delhi, India, kwatinosanganiswa nemunyori akahwina mubairo, munyori, murwiri Arundhati Roy. Ane mutsva sumo mu Financial Times yakanzi "Denda iri portal." Yakatorwa kubva mubhuku rake riri kuuya, Azadi: Rusununguko. Fascism. Fiction. Bhuku rake razvino ndere Mwoyo Wangu Wakashata: Yakaunganidzwa Zvisirizvo. Akahwina Mubairo weBooker muna 1997 pabhuku rake rekutanga, Mwari Wezvinhu Zvidiki.
Arundhati, gamuchirai zvakare Dememocracy Zvino! Sezvaunotaura nesu kubva kuNew Delhi, kana iwe uchigona kutaura nezve zviri kuitika ipapo uye nei uchiona denda senge portal?
ARUNDHATI ROY: Zvakanaka, muIndia, munoziva, tine a Covid dambudziko iro hatisati taziva. Ndinoreva, iwe wakataura nhamba uye zvakare chokwadi chekuti hatizive kana dzakavimbika, nekuti hapana kuyedza kwakawanda kuri kuitika. Asi nerumwe rutivi, uchingotarisa-tarisa, unoziva kuti hapana kumhanya kuzvipatara sezvakamboitwa muNew York, munoziva? Chirwere ichi hachisati chanyatsopinda matiri. Asi isu tine Covid dambudziko. Tine dambudziko renzara. Tine dambudziko reruvengo. Uye isu tine dambudziko rehutano kunze kwe Covid.
Saka, sezvawataura, iwe unoziva, musi wa24 Kurume, nechiziviso chemaawa mana, chaimhanya pakati pe8:00 usiku na12 pakati pehusiku, Modi akavharira nyika ino yevanhu bhiriyoni 1.38 pasina yambiro. Uye dambudziko rakagadzira, kushomeka kwekuronga, kushomeka kwekufunga kumberi, kunyangwe sedzimwe nyika dzakaita seKerala, dzawakataura nezvadzo, dzaita basa rinoshamisa, asi kubva pakati, dambudziko rakawedzera kuita chimwe chinhu chingaite. - inogona kutonyanya kuipa kupfuura denda rairi kuronga. Iwe une mamiriro ekuti une mamirioni evashandi nevashandi vanotama pasi pekuvhara, izvo zvinofanirwa kumanikidza kushamwaridzana, asi zvinongomanikidza kumanikidzana kwemuviri. Vanhu vakaungana pamwe chete. Vanhu vakaparadzaniswa nemhuri dzavo. Munzvimbo dzakawanda, havana zvokudya. Havana kuwana mari kunyange. Vatengesa mafoni avo. Une pfungwa yekuti wakagara pane chimwe chinhu chinoputika.
Uye zvakadaro, panguva imwe chete, sezvawataura, kusungwa kwakaitwa, kwete chete vanhu vawataura. Siddharth Varadarajan haasati asungwa, mupepeti weWire, asi ane mhosva yaakamhan'arira. Magweta makuru anotaura achipokana naModi akapinzwa neFIR pamusoro pavo. Gautam Navlakha naAnand Teltumbde vakasungwa. Vadzidzi vechidiki uye vanhu, vazhinji vevaMuslim, vari kupomerwa mhosva yekuve chikamu chekuuraya kwakaitika kurwisa maMuslim kuchamhembe kwakadziva kumabvazuva kweDelhi, vari kusungwa. Munoziva, madenderedzwa ari kuvhara mukati.
Uye chikonzero chandakataura kuti denda iri portal ndechekuti pasi rese une mamiriro ezvinhu, kune rimwe divi, masimba aripo ari kuedza nekuwedzera kuongorora, kuwedzera kusaenzana, kuwedzera privatization, kuwedzera kutonga, uye, kune rimwe divi, une huwandu hwevanhu vanozoda kuwedzera kubatana uye vanozoda kuona nekunzwisisa chokwadi chekuti zvakaitika muUS, pamwe nezvakaitika kuIndia, ndezvekuti denda yakafumura matambudziko ezvimiro zvekusaruramisira kwakaipisisa kwakadaro uye kusaenzana. Kunyangwe kushevedzwa kwekuvharwa nechiziviso chemaawa mana chaive chiratidzo chekuvhunduka kubva kune uyu mutungamiriri, nekuti anoziva kuti zvivakwa zvenyika ino, hazvigone kana kubata neyakajairwa, kanganwa nezvedenda.
NEMEEN SHAIKH: Arundhati, ndinoda kukubvunza zvakawanda pamusoro pazvo, nezvekuzivisa kwaModi kwekuvharika nechiziviso chemaawa mana chete. Akazvizivisa na8 pm, uye zvakatanga kushanda pakati pehusiku munaKurume 24. Asi nyaya yekutanga, yakashumwa nyaya, ye Covid-19 yaive muna Ndira 30, saka aive nayo - hazvizivikanwe kuti sei akatora mavhiki manomwe kuvhara nyika. Asi iwe wakaenda, apo wekutanga - nyika payakapinda mukuvhara, wakashandisa dhishi, ukaenda ukataura kune vamwe vevakatama, mazana ezviuru zvevanhu vakamanikidzwa kutiza Delhi kana zvifambiso zvese zvatove. vhara. Wakataura nevamwe vevakabva kuDelhi. Mungatiudze here zvavakataura nezvemamiriro avo ezvinhu?
ARUNDHATI ROY: Zvakanaka, pakangoziviswa kuvharika, kutakurwa kwevanhu vakawanda kwakamiswa. Raive svondo rekupedzisira raKurume. Vanhu vakanga vasina kubhadharwa mihoro yavo, vanhu vanorarama zuva nezuva. Varidzi venzvimbo idzi dzakatsvikinyidzana, dzemuMiddle Ages, umo vanhu vashanu ne10 vanorovererwa mukamuri, vakati vaida rendi yavo nenguva. Saka vanhu vaitofanira kuenda. Uye chaive chiono chekuona, munoziva, nepo pakanga pasina traffic mumigwagwa, asi kamwe kamwe kusaenzana kwechimiro uye kutyisa, kunyadziswa kwemararamiro edu nzanga, zvakazviratidza.
Uye ndakangoona kuti vanhu ava vatanga kufamba, kufamba mazana emakiromita kuenda kumisha yavo. Uye ndakabuda nekuti ndainzwa senge tectonic plates dzave kuchinja. Munoziva, kwaiva kupenga. Saka ndakaenda kumuganhu uri pakati peDelhi neUttar Pradesh, uko ndakafamba nevakawanda vavo. Uye ndakataura nevazhinji vavo, kusanganisira vaMuslim vakanga vachangopona rudzi urwu runotyisa rwekuda kurwa navo, izvo zvisina kuitika saizvozvo nekuti vanhu vakanga vakagadzirira zvekuti vakarwa. Asi vapona izvo, zvino vaive vofamba mazana emamaira kuenda kumba - munoziva, vavezi, vasona, vashandi vekuvaka.
Uye vese vaiziva nezveutachiona. Vese vaive vakapfeka maski. Vaiedza nepavaigona napo kuti varambe vari kure. Zvaisaita. Paiva nerunyerekupe rwekuti mabhazi angave akarongeka, uye kamwe kamwe sevanhu 100,000 XNUMX vakanga varipo pamwe chete, vakatsikirirwa pamwe chete, vakamirira mabhazi. Uye ndakabvunza vamwe vavo, "Saka, munofungei nezvehutachiona uhu?" Vakati, โChero zvatingafunga nezveutachiona, izvozvi hatina chekudya, hatina mvura, hatina pokurara. Tinofanira kusvika kumba." Uye izvo zvaivepo zvakanyanya kwavari kupfuura izvi.
Vazhinji vavo vaifunga kuti uku kwaiva kurwara kwevanhu vakapfuma kwakaunzwa nendege. "Nei vasina kumisa vanhu panhandare yendege pane kutidzinga pamabasa nedzimba dzedu, munoziva?" Uye vanhu vazhinji chete - mumwe wevanhu vandakanyora nezvavo mu Financial Times Piece akati-akangoti kwandiri, "Shaayad Modiji ko hamaare baare mein pata nahi [foni.]," zvichireva kuti "Zvichida Modi haazive nezvedu," munoziva, izvo zvaingova chokwadi neimwe nzira, kuti hurumende nevamwe vese vanodzora chero chinhu munharaunda ino vakatobvisa varombo kubva mufungidziro yavo. - kunze kwemafirimu, kunze kwezvinyorwa, kunze kwezvose. Unoziva? Kunze NGO mabhurocha ane varombo kuti vawane mari, munoziva?
AMY MURUME AKANAKA: Arundhati, ndaida kukubvunza nezve rwendo rwaMutungamiri Trump rwakakosha kuIndia panguva iyo denda rakanga richiputika, mifananidzo yakakurumbira yavo vachikwazisana, nhandare yevanhu zviuru zana. Apo Mutungamiriri-
ARUNDHATI ROY: Kwete, mamiriyoni evanhu. MuIndia, yaive miriyoni yevanhu. MuUS, yaive 50,000, hongu.
AMY MURUME AKANAKA: Saka, mutungamiri wenyika VaTrump pavakasimuka vachidzokera kuUnited States, ndipo pavakaverenga zvakataurwa nemusayendisiti weUS achitaura nezve mhedzisiro yedenda uye zvazvichareva kuUnited States. Akashatirwa kwazvo nezvaaifanira kutaura zvokuti akanzura musangano wemasayendisiti paakanga achidzoka, achitsiva. Uye ipapo iwe une hukama hwese neIndia kutenderedza hydroxychloroquine, izvo "Dr. VaTrump โ- uye ndiri kutaura izvi zvine hunyoro - Mutungamiri VaTrump vanga vachisundidzira, hydroxychloroquine, nekuti Narendra Modi akati aizokanganisa kutengesa, kutengesa kunze kwemushonga uyu, kudzamara Mutungamiri Trump vamumanikidza. Uye zvino chidzidzo chimwe mushure mechimwe chiri kubuda chichiti vanhu vari kufa muzvidzidzo zvakatenderedza hydroxychloroquine.
ARUNDHATI ROY: Hongu.
AMY MURUME AKANAKA: Pakazara, taura nezve izvo zvakarehwa naTrump kuModi uye zvinorehwa naModi kuna Trump, uyu mubatanidzwa weUS-India, uye zvaari kuita munyika yako.
ARUNDHATI ROY: Zvakanaka, iri kupa huwandu hukuru hwekutendeseka kumamiriro ezvinhu andisingakwanise kutsanangura, Amy, paTV, nekuti ndanga ndichinyora nezve izvi kwenguva yakareba, munoziva? Uye zvandakambotaura, dambudziko renzara, uyezve dambudziko reruvengo. Saka, nguva yakauya Modi kuUS ndokuita "Howdy Modi" show, uyezve, Trump paakauya pano uye yaive "Namaste Trump" uye zvichingodaro, rudzi urwu rwekutamba kusinganzwisisike pakati pevaviri ava, ndine hurombo. kutaura, asi kwete vanhu vakangwara, asi vanhu vane simba kwazvo, vari pamutemo kutyisa kwezviri kuitika muUS nevatorwa, nerusaruraganda, nevashandi vasina magwaro, uye kutyisa kwezvinoitika muUS. BJP hurumende, iyo RSS, kunova mai va BJP mubatanidzwa wetsika umo Modi ndewe, uyo anotenda kuti India inofanira kunge iri nyika yechiHindu uye kuti munhu wese anofanira kunge ari vagari vechikamu chechipiri, kwavakagadzira mitemo mitsva yevagari uye vari kuvaka nzvimbo dzehuvharirwa. Uye zvese izvi zviri pamutemo nepfungwa iyi yekuti nyika ine simba kwazvo pasi rose uye murume ane simba kwazvo pasi rose anoda Modi, munoziva?
Uye pakati pavo, iyo - ndinoreva, inhamo yenyika kuti denda iri rasvika panguva iyo nyika nenyika inotongwa nevanhu vakaita seizvi, ndosaka ndati isuwo, nekuti, munoziva, tichaenda - isu ticharara tichipinda mune ino fascist yekutarisa mamiriro ayo munhu wese akatichengetera? Ndinoreva, iyo app, inonzi Aarogya Setu app, iyo Modi yakakumbira vanhu kuti vatore uye ikava iyo inokurumidza-kudhawunirodha app pasi rose - isu tine mamirioni makumi mashanu ekudhawunirodha izvozvi - ndinoreva, nyanzvi yese yehunyanzvi inoti ingori yekuongorora app, unoziva? Uye ese akasiyana - mazhinji nzanga dzedemocracy dziri kuenda kune izvi, mukuvhunduka uye kutya kwakagadzirwa.
Uye kune zvinhu zvakawanda kwazvo nezve coronavirus, munoziva, zvinhu zvakawanda zvinofadza moyo. Ndaiverengera mukati The New York Times nhasi magadzirisiro ari kuita kubatana pakati pevanhu vekuUS ndangoona vhidhiyo inoshamisa yevanhu vachitenda chiremba wekuPakistan nekugadzira michina inobvumira mhepo imwe chete kuti igovane nevakawanda.
Asi pano, une maMuslim ari kupomerwa corona. Pane pfungwa yese ye "corona jihad." Uye ndanga ndichiverenga kuti sei, muma1930s, nyika yeNazi yaipomera maJuda mhosva yetyphus uye vakaishandisa senzira yekushoropodza uye ghetto maJuda. Ndizvo zvimwe chete zviri kuitika pano nevaMuslim. Iwe unoziva, iwe unofanirwa kunzwa mutauro unoshandiswa nevezvenhau, uye vanhu vari mumugwagwa.
Saka, inzvimbo ine njodzi zvakanyanya, iri kubvumidzwa zvachose naTrump uye nevanhu vese vane simba ava vanosangana nekubata maoko uye vanoramba kuona kuti hutachiona uhu huchafamba sei uye huchiwedzera kusaenzana, kuwedzera kusarongeka uye kugadzira mamiriro ezvinhu. , zvakare, vanotya, nokuti vanoziva aya mamiriyoni evanhu, vane nzara, vane nzara. Uchaita sei nehasha idzodzo? MuIndia, ndichakuudza kuti vachaita sei nazvo. Vari kuzoedza nekuitsausa muhasha dzinopokana neMuslim, ndicho chinhu chega chavanoita nguva dzose.
Asi pane imwe nguva - iwe unoziva, zvinhu zvatove kuputika. Vanhu varikupisa matumba nezvimwe zvakadaro. Uye nzara iri kukurumidza, inofanira kugadziriswa izvozvi. Matura akazara nezvokudya izvo zvisiri kugovewa. Munoziva, vanhu vanoda kuchinjirwa mari, asi havana maakaundi ekubhanga, kana kuti havakwanise kuwana maakaundi avo ekubhangi. Idambudziko raunonzwa kuti wakagara pane chimwe chinhu chinoputika izvozvi. Uye, iwe unoziva, sezvainodzika, kana iwe uchinge wagovera iyo zviyo, iyo inotevera batch yechikafu ichabva kupi? Nokuti ikozvino inguva yekukohwa, uye, munoziva, vanhu - kunyange avo vakakwanisa kukohwa havagoni kutengesa. Uye, munoziva, nzira yese yekurima yenyika ino yashanduka kuita zvirimwa zvekutengesa.
AMY MURUME AKANAKA: Arundhati, tine 10 seconds.
ARUNDHATI ROY: Ehe. Ndiudze.
AMY MURUME AKANAKA: Tine chete - ndinoda kukutendai zvikuru nekuva nesu, sezvo isu tisina nguva.
ARUNDHATI ROY: Horaiti. Makanaka.
AMY MURUME AKANAKA: Tichabatanidza kune yako Piece, "Denda isuwo," iri mukati Foreign Policy. Arundhati Roy ari - China inotevera, Kubvumbi 23, achange achijoinha online kudzidzisa-mu naProfessor wePrinceton Imani Perry naHaymarket Mabhuku pa โThe Pandemic Is a Portal.โ Uye isu tichabatanidza kune zvinyorwa zvako, zvakare, pa democracynow.org.
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