Kodi nchiyani chimene chimakankhira Aarabu kukana kukhalapo kwa Holocaust? Kodi ndichifukwa chiyani Israeli akupitilizabe kugwiritsa ntchito kukumbukira kuwonongedwa kwa Ayuda aku Europe? Kodi maganizo a aluntha achiarabu pa nthawi ya nkhondo yachiwiri yapadziko lonse anali otani? Ndi chifukwa chiyani Ahmadinejad akuonetsa chida chokanira mosalekeza pomwe Hamas ndi Hezbollah akuchikana? Mediapart idasindikiza zolemba zapadera m'buku, "Les Arabes et la Shoah" [The Arabs and Holocaust] (รฉditions Actes Sud/Sindbad, 2009), lomwe linatuluka Lachitatu, October 14. [ Metropolitan Books adzakhala kutulutsa buku lachingelezi lachingelezi mu April 2010.]
Zotsatira za ntchito zomwe sizinachitikepo, ntchito ya katswiri wa ndale Gilbert Achcar - pulofesa ku London University's School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS) - ndemanga zaka zana za mbiriyakale kuyambira kubadwa kwa Zionism mpaka kumapeto kwa nyengo yachisanu ya Israeli ku Gaza. Ngakhale kuti akupereka kutchuka kwa mkangano wa ndale wopangidwa ndi mkangano wa Israeli-Palestine, amasonyeza "malumikizidwe atsopano" omwe alipo lero pakati pa Ayuda ndi Aarabu. Mafunso.
Pierre Puchot: Gilbert Achcar, mutu wam'buku lanu ndi wakuti: "Nkhondo ya Israeli-Arabu ya Nkhani." Mukutanthauza chiyani?
Gilbert Achcar: Ndi za nkhondo yomwe imatsutsana ndi masomphenya awiri ogwirizana a chiyambi cha mkangano. Mwachindunji, ndikulozera apa ku lingaliro la "nkhani" monga kubwereza kwa mbiri yakale monga kukhazikitsidwa ndi post-modernism. Nkhani yaku Israeli ikufotokoza za Israeli yomwe imatuluka ngati momwe amachitira ndi anti-Semitism, pambali โUfulu wa mโBaibuloโ woperekedwa ndi AZiyoni achipembedzo. Ndipo kulungamitsidwa kwake ndi anti-Semitism yaku Europe kumaperekedwa kwa Aarabu, omwe amawonetsedwa ngati ogwirizana ndi izi za anti-Semitism zomwe zinali Nazism - zomwe zingavomereze kubadwa kwa Boma la Israeli pamayiko olandidwa kuchokera kwa anthu achiarabu. Ichi ndichifukwa chake nkhani za Israeli zimalimbikira mpaka pano Amin al-Husseini, khalidwe limeneli, linaphulitsidwa kuchokera mumkhalidwe wonse, amene anakhala mufti wakale wa Yerusalemu.
Kumbali ya Aarabu, nkhani yomveka bwino - pambuyo pake tidzanena za kuchuluka kwa anthu otsutsa omwe akuchulukirachulukira pakali pano - mwina kufotokozedwa mwachidule m'mawu awa, "Ife tinalibe chochita ndi Shoah. Anti-Semitism Zionism ndi gulu la atsamunda lomwe linayambira ku Palestine pansi pa ulamuliro wa atsamunda a British, ngakhale kuti panali zochitika zakale. zomwe zidawoneka ku South Africa ndi kwina." Ndi nkhondo pakati pa nkhani ziwirizi zomwe ndikufufuza m'bukuli.
Kodi pali kuwerenga kwakukulu kwa Arabu kwa Shoah? Kodi ndi m'mbali ziti ndipo zimasiyana bwanji ndi zomwe zili ku Europe kapena United States?
Palibe kutanthauzira kumodzi kwachiarabu kwa Shoah, monganso kulibe kuwerengeka kumodzi kwa ku Europe, ngakhale kuli kofanana kwambiri pakulingalira kwa Holocaust ku Europe. Komabe, ngakhale izi zaposachedwa, popeza, monga mukudziwira, Shoah sinali mutu waposachedwa kwambiri munkhani ndi maphunziro aku Europe pazaka makumi awiri zomwe zidatsatira kutha kwa Nkhondo Yachiwiri Yapadziko Lonse.
Mโmaiko a Aarabu, zinthu nzosiyana kwambiri. Izi makamaka ndi zotsatira za kukhalapo kwa maulamuliro ambiri andale m'mayiko achiarabu, okhala ndi malingaliro osiyana kwambiri ovomerezeka. Momwemonso, mitundu yosiyanasiyana - komanso yotsutsa kwambiri - mafunde amalingaliro amadutsa malingaliro a Aarabu.
M'zaka zingapo zapitazi, pakhala kuchulukirachulukira kwankhanza zankhondo za Israeli - zomwe zachoka kunkhondo zomwe Israeli atha kupereka ngati chitetezo kunkhondo zomwe sizikadawonetsedwanso mwanjira imeneyo - kuyambira ndi kuwukira kwa Lebanon. mu 1982. Izi zatsagana ndi kuchulukira kwa udani pankhondo ya Israeli-Arabiya, makamaka chifukwa cha tsogolo losungidwira ma Palestine a madera omwe adalandidwa kuyambira 1967.
Poyang'anizana ndi chitsutso chokulirapo cha Israeli, kuphatikiza Kumadzulo, kuyambira 1982 makamaka, tawona kuti boma mwadongosolo limagwiritsa ntchito kukumbukira kwa Shoah, kuyambira pasanafike mlandu wa Eichmann mu 1960. "mbali yotsutsana," kugwedezeka kwa mawondo komwe nthawi zina kumafika mpaka kukana kuphedwa kwa Nazi. Chizindikiro chabwino kwambiri chamtunduwu ndi chakuti anthu achiarabu omwe adalandira maphunziro ochulukirapo pokumbukira a Shoah, kuchuluka kwa nzika zachiarabu ku Israeli, akhala akukana kuphulika kochititsa chidwi zaka zingapo zapitazi.
M'malingaliro mwanga, izi zikuwonetseratu kuti kukana muzochitikazi kumagwirizana kwambiri ndi "matumbo" chifukwa cha ndale, kusiyana ndi kukana kwenikweni kwa Shoah monga momwe zimawonekera ku Ulaya kapena United States, kumene otsutsa amawononga ndalama. nthawi yawo akupanga ziphunzitso zakale zomwe sizimatsutsa kukhalapo kwa zipinda za gasi, ndi zina zotero.
Chizindikiro china cha kusiyana kumeneku ndikuti m'dziko la Aarabu komwe kukana kukukwera kwambiri, palibe wolemba m'modzi yemwe wapanga chilichonse choyambirira pamutuwu. Zomwe amatsutsa Aarabu amachita ndikungotengera malingaliro opangidwa Kumadzulo.
Kugwiritsa ntchito ndale kukana monga momwe Ahmadinejad adapangidwira masiku ano sikunagwiritsidwe ntchito kale m'mayiko achiarabu, mu nthawi ya Nasser, mwachitsanzo. Kodi chitukukochi chikutiuza chiyani?
Chitsimikizo chachisilamu chomwe chakhalapo kwazaka makumi angapo zapitazi, malinga ndi mkangano wa Israeli ndi Aarabu, uli ndi masomphenya ofunikira, ngakhale kuti sizotsutsana ndi Semitic m'lingaliro lokhazikika lamitundu. Ndi masomphenya omwe amatenga zotsutsana ndi Chiyuda zomwe zingapezeke mu zipembedzo za Abrahamu zomwe zinatsatira Chiyuda: Chikhristu ndi Chisilamu. Zomwe zili mu Chisilamu zidzalongosoledwa kuti zithandizire kulumikizana pakati pa kukana kopitilira muyeso kwamasiku ano komanso kukana kwa azungu.
Ndi zinthu ziti za Chisilamu zomwe zimalola kukwaniritsidwa kwa kutsutsana ndi Chiyuda kumeneku?
Pali zotsutsa za Chiyuda mkati mwa Chisilamu ndikubwerezabwereza mkangano womwe udabuka pakati pa Mneneri wa Chisilamu ndi mafuko achiyuda ku chilumba cha Arabu. Koma ndi maziko otsutsana: timapeza zotsutsana ndi Akhristu ndi Ayuda m'malemba Achisilamu. Koma panthawi imodzimodziyo, Akhristu ndi Ayuda amatengedwa ngati "anthu a m'buku" ndipo pamapeto pake akhoza kusangalala ndi chithandizo chapadera poyerekeza ndi anthu ena m'mayiko omwe Chisilamu chinagonjetsa, anthu omwe anakakamizika kusintha. Anthu a mโbukuli sanakakamizidwe kutembenuka ndipo zipembedzo zawo zinkaonedwa kuti nโzovomerezeka. Chifukwa chake, pali mikangano pakati pa machitidwe awiriwa omwe amatsutsana.
Ndikuwonetsa m'bukhu langa momwe munthu yemwe anganenedwe kuti ndiye woyambitsa wamkulu wa chikhazikitso cha Chisilamu chamakono, Rachid Rida, adasintha kuchoka ku malingaliro a Ayuda chifukwa chodana ndi Chikhristu - makamaka pa nthawi ya Dreyfus Affair, pomwe adadzudzula anti-Judaism ku Europe. - ku malingaliro omwe, chakumapeto kwa zaka za m'ma 1920, adayamba kubwereza nkhani yotsutsa Semitic ya kudzoza kwa Azungu, kuphatikizapo nkhani yaikulu ya Nazi yotsutsana ndi Ayuda yomwe imati mitundu yonse ya zinthu ndi Ayuda kupitiriza ndi zabodza Russian "Protocols of Akulu a Ziyoni,โ kuphatikizapo udindo wa Nkhondo Yoyamba Yapadziko Lonse. Kenako tikuwona kumezanitsa kukuchitika pakati pa nkhani zina zaku Western zotsutsana ndi Semitic ndi Islamic fundamentalism zomwe zimatembenukira kumbali iyi pafunsoli chifukwa cha zomwe zikuchitika ku Palestine. Nkhondo isanayambe ku Palestine, Rachid Rida yemweyo adayesa kukambirana ndi oimira gulu la Zionist kuti awatsimikizire kuti apange mgwirizano pakati pa Ayuda ndi Asilamu kuti ayang'ane ndi Christian West ngati mphamvu yachitsamunda. Kuchokera ku anti-colonialism yomwe imatsimikizira kutsutsa-Westernism, iwo amayenera kupita ku zotsutsana ndi Zionism, zomwe, pankhani ya malingaliro achipembedzo okhazikika, ophatikizana mosavuta ndi anti-Semitism.
Ndi kunena kuti, zizindikiro zotsutsana ndi Chiyuda zomwe munthu amapeza m'Chisilamu, amapeza zochulukitsa zana mu Chikhristu, komanso m'Chikatolika makamaka, ndi lingaliro la Ayuda monga deicides, Ayuda omwe ali ndi udindo pa imfa ya Yesu, mwana wa Mulungu. Mlandu wotsutsana ndi Ayuda womwe uli m'Chikhristu wadzetsanso kuzunzidwa kwa Ayuda m'mbiri ya azungu moyipa kwambiri kuposa momwe zidalili m'maiko achisilamu. Tawona, mwachitsanzo, mmene Ayuda a ku Peninsula ya Iberia, akuthawa Christian Reconquista ndi Bwalo la Inquisition, anapeza chitetezo mโmaiko Achisilamu, kumpoto kwa Africa, Turkey ndi kwina.
Kodi Hezbollah ndi Hamas agwiritsa ntchito bwanji chizoloลตezi chomakana kutsata ndale?
Nkhani ya Rachid Rida, yogwirizana ndi malingaliro awo, inalipo kuyambira pachiyambi ku Hamas ndi Hezbollah. Zambiri, mwa njira, ku Hamas, komwe ndi kutulutsidwa kwa Muslim Brotherhood ku Palestine. Woyambitsa wa Brotherhood, Hassan El-Banna, adalimbikitsidwa kwambiri ndi Rachid Rida.
Pankhani ya Hezbollah, nkhaniyo ikukambidwa kudzera m'malingaliro a zomwe zikanabwera kuchokera ku Iran ndale: mu Shiite fundamentalism poyambirira, palibe gwero la gawo lodana ndi Chiyuda lofanana ndi lomwe Rida adapanga. Zinayenera kufotokozedwa momveka bwino komanso kutsutsa kwa boma la Iran ku West, United States ndi Israel.
Izi zati, chomwe chimasiyanitsa Hamas komanso Hezbollah ndikuti ndi mayendedwe ambiri, ndipo, motero, ali ndi gawo lodziwika bwino. Momwe zimayenera kuti Ahmadinejad achite kutsutsa kumodzi pazifukwa za ndondomeko ya boma, mayendedwewa achepetsa kwambiri nkhani zotsutsana ndi Ayuda zomwe adazifotokoza kale komanso zomwe zidakhala zotsutsana.
Zomwe ndikumvetsetsa kuchokera m'buku lanu ndikuti kukana kwa Holocaust kwakhala chida chandale pa se ku Middle East, kaya munthu asankhe kuigwiritsa ntchito kapena ayi. Kodi chida ichi chinali chotani pa maziko a ndale a gulu la Palestina, makamaka ponena za PLO?
PLO, kuyambira pamene mabungwe a Palestina omwe anali ndi zida zankhondo adakhala ndi mphamvu mkati mwake pambuyo pa 1967, mwamsanga anazindikira kuti nkhani zotsutsana ndi Semitic ndizoipa mwazokha komanso zosiyana kwambiri ndi zofuna za kulimbana kwa anthu a Palestina. Chifukwa chake kulimbikira pakusiyanitsa pakati pa anti-Semitism ndi anti-Zionism, yomwe inali nkhani pankhondo yandale mkati mwa gulu la Palestina.
Mosiyana ndi izi, ndi njira zotani zomwe mumazitcha "zabwino" zoimbira za Shoah, monga zimachokera ku Israeli?
Kodi ndi zovomerezeka zotani za State of Israel? Sindikunena za kukayikira kukhalapo kwake, koma ndikuwunika kuvomerezeka komwe kumadzipatsa. Munthu ayenera kuvomereza kuti, pambali pa Zionist zachipembedzo, kuvomerezeka kwa Baibulo kumakhutiritsa anthu ochepa kwambiri! Ponena za kulungamitsidwa komwe timapeza mu Zionism yapadziko lapansi monga momwe adafotokozera Theodore Herzl, ndikulungamitsa komwe sikumaganizira zomwe zili komweko komwe "Boma la Ayuda" lidzakhazikitsidwa. Kulungamitsidwa kokha komwe akupereka kwa dzikolo ndiko kudana ndi Ayuda Kumadzulo. Samadzidetsa yekha ndi zomwe zachitika kale. Komanso, tikudziwa kuti poyamba gulu la Zionist nthawi zina limakhala ndi mikangano yovuta kwambiri ponena za malo omwe angakhale a Zionist. Chifukwa chake, kwa gulu la Zionist, inali nkhani yodzilowetsa yokha mkati mwa ntchito yachitsamunda ndipo timapeza zonena za atsamunda m'buku la Herzl, kuphatikiza lingaliro lokhala ndi gawo lachitukuko motsutsana ndi nkhanza.
Malingaliro a atsamunda atatha ntchito padziko lonse lapansi, kunali koyenera kupeza njira ina yovomerezeka: ndipamene zida za Shoah zinayamba kuwonjezereka, makamaka kuyambira kumayambiriro kwa zaka za m'ma 1960 ndi mlandu wa Eichmann. Ntchito yabwino kwambiri yachitika kale pankhaniyi, makamaka ya Tom Segev. Ndi ntchito yodabwitsa kwambiri momwe, mkati mwa Israeli momwe, funso la Shoah lidatulukira mwadzidzidzi ndikusintha mawonekedwe. Ubale ndi Chipululutso cha Nazi unali woti usinthe kuchoka paunansi wonyoza opulumukawo nโkuyamba kunena kuti chikumbukirocho chinali chovomerezeka kwa Boma. Komanso, monga nkhani, kuvomerezeka kumeneku kwakhala kothandiza kwambiri Kumadzulo pamagulu angapo, kuphatikizapo maubwenzi omwe analipo pakati pa Israeli ndi Federal Republic of Germany panthawi yomwe akuluakulu a Germany anali odzaza ndi chipani cha Nazi. Anthu nthawi zambiri amabisa ntchito yofunika kwambiri yomwe Germany idachita polimbitsa Boma la Israeli, makamaka ndi kubwezera komwe Bonn adapereka, osati kwa ozunzidwa ndi Nazism, kwa opulumuka kuphako, koma ku State of Israel yomwe idaperekedwa ngati dziko la opulumuka. Motero, kuvomereza kwa Boma la Israyeli kumeneku kunadzaonekera mโkupita kwa nthaลตi monga chida chapamwamba kwambiri cha ndale cha Boma limenelo, chida chimene masiku ano chikugwiritsidwa ntchito mopambanitsa.
Kukumbukira kwa Shoah kumapemphedwa kuti athane ndi kutsutsa kulikonse. Nthawi zina, izi zafika pamlingo wowopsa monga pomwe Prime Minister Begin adayankha yankho lake lodziwika bwino kwa Ronald Reagan panthawi yozungulira mzinda wa Beirut: Yambani kuyerekeza Arafat ndi Hitler panthawiyo, panthawi yomwe gulu lankhondo la Israeli likuzungulira Beirut ndipo Israeli ambiri ndi owonera ena m'malo mwake adapeza kufanana ndi Ghetto ya Warsaw.
Kodi kufanana pakati pa Nakba ndi Shoah kulipo ku Middle East? Kodi limavumbula zochitika zandale zomwe zingatheke m'njira yotani?
Pamlingo womwewo, pali mbali ziwiri zosiyana: zomwe tidakambirana, nkhondo yolimbana ndi zida za Holocaust, ndipo pali zomwe mungatchule mtundu wa mpikisano wapakati pakati pa ozunzidwa: "Tsoka langa ndilofunika kwambiri kuposa wanu." Kumbali ya Palestina, nthawi zambiri munthu amatha kuwerenga mawu omwe amanena kuti tsogolo la anthu a ku Palestina lakhala loipa kuposa la Ayuda omwe anali pansi pa Nazism. Izi mwachiwonekere ndizokokomeza zonyansa komanso zopanda pake, koma tikhoza kumvetsetsa zomwe zimawatsogolera. Komanso, timapeza mpikisano wa ozunzidwawo polemekeza a Shoah pazochitika zina zoopsa za mbiri yakale monga kuphedwa kwa anthu a ku Armenia, mwachitsanzo.
Pa nthawi yomweyo, ndi bwino kumvera kale Knesset Wokamba Ndemanga za Avraham Burg. Iye ananena mokweza kuti: โNdife olakwa chifukwa chokana kupha anthu komanso masoka a anthu ena. Poyang'anizana ndi zochitika, pamene, mu Israeli, amakana Nakba - ndipo pamene adafuna kuwonekera kwa omwe amatchedwa "New Historians" ndi a post-Zionism kuti nkhani yovomerezeka ya kukana kwa Nakba ifunsidwe mwamphamvu - pali. osati chitukuko cha kukana Holocaust ku mbali Aarabu, komanso kukwera kwa zonena zawo za kukula ndi sewero la tsoka lawo. Izi nthawi zambiri zimatha kubweretsa zotsutsana: mbali imodzi, kukana kuphedwa kwa Nazi, kuchepetsa zolakwa za Nazism, komanso, mbali ina, nkhani yodzudzula Israeli chifukwa chopanganso zolakwa za Nazism ... imagwira ntchito. Ndi nkhondo yamalingaliro yomwe imayenda mochulukirapo kudzera mumalingaliro ndi zilakolako kuposa kudzera munkhani zomveka.
Pomaliza, mukupereka kusanthula kosangalatsa: "Kupita patsogolo komwe kwachitika pakati pa Aluya ndi Israeli kumakhala kofunikira munthu akaganizira za kusatheka kwa kulumikizana pakati pawo mzaka makumi oyamba pambuyo pa Nakba."
Kupita patsogolo kumeneku, mwa zina, kudapangidwa ndi PLO, yomwe idatsegula njira yoti anthu azikhala ndi malingaliro omveka bwino motsutsana ndi Shoah, State of Israel ndi Israelis kumbali ya Arabu.
Mgwirizano pakati pa Aarabu ndi Ayuda ulipo lero ndipo pamapeto pake uyenera kuvomereza kuphedwa kwa Nazi ndi Nakba. Kuzindikira kwa Israeli pazotsatirazi ndizovuta kwambiri chifukwa zikutanthawuza kuzindikira udindo wawo, ndi zotsatira zachindunji zomwe mungaganizire, zomwe zingayambitse maganizo otsutsana kwambiri ndi maboma a Israeli mpaka pano. Komabe kuzindikira kwa Nakba ndi Israeli lero ndi gawo lofunika kwambiri kuti akwaniritse mkanganowu womwe wakhalapo kwa nthawi yayitali.
[Kumasulira: Wolemba Mkonzi wa chinenero cha Chifalansa a Truthout Leslie Thatcher, ndi chilolezo cha Medipart.]
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