South Africa etinyela akwụkwọ ikpe na isi ụlọ ikpe maka United Nations, Ụlọikpe Ikpe Ikpe Mba Nile na Hague, na-ebo Israel ebubo na ha mere mgbukpọ na Gaza. "Ekwenyere m na South Africa ga-emeri n'iwu megide Israel ka ọ kwụsị na ịkwụsị ime mpụ mgbukpọ niile megide ndị Palestine," ka Francis Boyle, onye ọka iwu mba ụwa nke meriri arịrịọ abụọ na Palestine kwuru. ICJ n'okpuru Mgbakọ Mgbukpọ nke 1948 maka nchekwa nwa oge n'aha Republic of Bosnia na Herzegovina megide Yugoslavia. Boyle kwuru na Israel nwere akụkọ ihe mere eme nke ịge ntị n'iwu United States ka ọ kwụsị mwakpo ya na mpaghara Palestine. "Anyị nọ na United States of America nwere ikike ịkwụsị nke a."
transcript
AMY GOODMAN: Dị ka ọnụ ọgụgụ ndị nwụrụ site na ogbunigwe nke Israel na Gaza kemgbe October 7th Hamas wakporo Israel ugbu a karịrị 22,000, South Africa etinyela akwụkwọ ikpe na International Court of Justice na Hague na-ebo Israel ebubo mgbukpọ ma na-agbalị, kwuo okwu, "ibibi ndị Palestine na Gaza." Nke a na-abịa dịka ụlọ ikpe mba ụwa dị iche iche na-enyocha mpụ agha eboro Israel na Hamas.
Na ntinye akwụkwọ ya na ICJ, bụ́ isi òtù ikpe maka United Nations, South Africa na-ekwu, hota, sị, “Mme omume na mwepu nke Israel mere mkpesa banyere South Africa bụ n'àgwà nke mgbukpọ n'ihi na ha bu n'obi na-eweta mbibi nke nnukwu akụkụ nke Palestine mba. agbụrụ na agbụrụ,” na-ekwughị. South Africa boro Israel ebubo na ha mebiri Nkwekọrịta 1948 maka Mgbochi na ntaramahụhụ nke Mpụ nke mgbukpọ, nke Israel bịanyere aka na ya.
Israel zaghachiri site n'ịkpọ ebubo ahụ, hota, "na-enweghị ikike iwu kwadoro." Mịnịstrị na-ahụ maka mba ofesi nke Israel boro South Africa ebubo, na-ehota, "na-arụkọ ọrụ na otu ndị na-eyi ọha egwu na-akpọ maka ikpochapụ Israel," enweghị nkọwa.
Onye isi ala Saụt Afrịka Cyril Ramaphosa atụnyela omume ndị Israel na-eme ndị Palestine na mpaghara a na-achị achị na usoro ịkpa ókè agbụrụ na obodo ya nke kwụsịrị na 1994 ka ihe fọrọ nke nta ka ọ bụrụ ọkara narị afọ gachara. Na Nọvemba, Ramaphosa zara mwakpo Israel na Gaza site n'icheta ndị nnọchi anya South Africa si Israel.
CHINEKE CYRIL RAMAPHOSA: Ntaramahụhụ mkpokọta nke ndị nkịtị Palestine site na iji ike na-akwadoghị nke Israel bụ mpụ agha. Ngọnarị ịgọnarị ọgwụ, mmanụ ọkụ, nri na mmiri nye ndị bi na Gaza dị ka mgbukpọ.
AMY GOODMAN: Ka ọ dị ugbu a, n'October, onye omebe iwu South Africa na nwa nwa Nelson Mandela, Nkosi Mandela, sonyeere ngagharị iwe n'otu ndị Palestine na Cape Town.
NKOSI ZWELIVELILE MANDELA: Ndị Palestine na-atụkwa anya na onye ọ bụla n'ime anyị ga-eguzoro na-agụ, dị ka ha na-eguzo n'akụkụ anyị na ọdụ ụgbọ mmiri mgbe anyị lụrụ ọgụ iji tọhapụ obodo anyị.
AMY GOODMAN: Maka ihe ndị ọzọ, Francis Boyle, prọfesọ nke iwu mba ụwa na Mahadum Iwu nke Mahadum Illinois sonyeere anyị. O tinyeburu Nkwekọrịta Mgbukpọ Mgbukpọ maka Bosnia wee nweta arịrịọ abụọ maka nchekwa nwa oge site na ICJ megide Yugoslavia, ma chere na otu ahụ nwere ike itinye ebe a. Akwụkwọ ya gụnyere Ndị Bosnia na-ebo ebubo mgbukpọ, yana Palestine, ndị Palestine, na iwu mba ụwa na Ọchịchị ụwa, ikike mmadụ, na iwu mba ụwa.
Prọfesọ Boyle, nabataghachi gị Ndi ochichi onye kwuo uche ugbu a! Ọ dị mma ịnwe gị na anyị n'afọ ọhụrụ a, mana n'ọnọdụ dị oke njọ. Ọ bụrụ na ị nwere ike ịkọwa ihe kpatara na ọ bụ South Africa na-ebute ebubo a, na gịnị kpọmkwem bụ Ụlọikpe Ikpe Ikpe Mba Nile, ebe ọ dabara na usoro ikpe ziri ezi nke ụwa? Na-ekwukwa maka ebubo igbukpọ mmadụ.
FRANCIS NWA nwoke: Daalụ, daalụ maka ị nweta m, Amy. Nke kacha mma maka ndị na-ege gị ntị.
Ọ bụghị ịfụ mpi m n’ebe a, ma abụ m ndị ọkàiwu mbụ meriri ihe ọ bụla n’okpuru Mgbakọ Mgbukpọ Mgbukpọ sitere n’Ụlọikpe Ikpe Mba Nile, bụ́ nke laghachiri azụ na 1921. Eji m aka m merie n’iwu abụọ Ụlọikpe Ụwa nyere Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina megide Yugoslavia ka ọ kwụsị ma kwụsị ime ihe omume mgbukpọ niile.
Na dabere na nlezianya m nyochaa akwụkwọ niile nke Republic of South Africa debere ugbu a, ekwenyere m na South Africa ga-emeri iwu megide Israel ka ha kwụsị ma kwụsị ime ihe niile nke mgbukpọ megide ndị Palestine. Ma mgbe ahụ, anyị ga-enwe mkpebi siri ike nke Ụlọikpe Mba Nile nke Ikpe Ziri Ezi n'onwe ya, ikike iwu kachasị elu na usoro United Nations, na mgbukpọ na-aga n'ihu. Na n'okpuru Nkeji edemede I nke Mgbakọ Mgbukpọ, ndị niile na-eme nkwekọrịta, steeti 153, ga-amanye, kwuo, "iji gbochie," n'ekwughị okwu, mgbukpọ nke Israel megide ndị Palestine.
Nke abụọ, mgbe thelọ ikpe ụwa nyere iwu nkwụsị na ịkwụsị megide Israel, a ga-akatọ ọchịchị Biden n'okpuru edemede. III, paragraf (e), nke Nkwekọrịta Mgbukpọ Mgbukpọ, nke na-emejọ mpụ na mkpochapụ. Ma anyị maara nke ọma na nchịkwa Biden na-enyere aka ma na-akwado mgbuchapụ Israel megide ndị Palestine ebe a ruo oge ụfọdụ. Ndị enyi m zụlitekwara nke a na Center for Constitutional Rights na National Lawyers Guild na ikpe megide Biden, Blinken na Austin.
Ya mere, ekwenyere m na anyị ga-enwe ike iji iwu Ụlọikpe Ụwa. Ugbu a isi mmalite m na-agwa m na ikpe a ga-abụ Jenụwarị 11, Jenụwarị 12. Dabere na ahụmịhe m na ndị Bosnia, anyị nwere ike ịtụ anya ịtụ n'ime otu izu.
M ga-ekwukwa, n'ihe gbasara nchịkwa Biden, ha na-emebi ugbu a Iwu mmejuputa Mgbakọ Mgbukpọ, nke na-eme ka mgbukpọ mmadụ bụrụ mpụ n'okpuru iwu United States. Ọzọkwa, ozugbo anyị - South Africa meriri n'iwu a, nchịkwa Biden ga-eguzokwa megidere iwu mmezu nke Mgbakọ Mgbukpọ.
Ya mere, ekwenyere m na nke a bụ ebe anyị ga-aga n'etiti ugbu a, m ga-ekwu, na njedebe nke ọnwa a. Ma ọ dịịrị anyị niile, dị ka ụmụ amaala America, ịchọpụta ma kwado ihe South Africa na-eme n'Ụlọikpe Ikpe Mba Nile Ebe a.
JOHN GONZÁLEZ: Na, Francis Boyle, kedu ihe dị iche n'etiti Ụlọikpe Na-ahụ Maka Ikpe Na-ahụ Maka Ikpe Mba Nile na Ụlọikpe Criminal International, bụ nke na-atụlerị ebubo ebubo nke mpụ agha nke ma Israel yana otu ndị agha Palestine?
FRANCIS NWA nwoke: Daalụ, Juan. E hiwere ụlọ ikpe mba ụwa na mbụ na 1921, onye bu ya ụzọ, onye bu ya ụzọ iwu, n'iwu. Ma ebe ahụ ka m gbara akwụkwọ gbasara ogbugbu mmadụ. Abụ m ọkàiwu mbụ meriri n’iwu abụọ n’otu ikpe dị otú ahụ kemgbe e hiwere Ụlọikpe Ụwa na 1921, ọ bụkwa n’ihi Mgbakọ Mgbasa Mgbukpọ. The International Criminal Court bụ ọgbakọ mba ụwa dị iche iche, hiwere na 2000.
Nsogbu, Juan, bụ nke a. Laa azụ na 2009, mgbe Operation Cast Lead gasịrị, a gwara m onye isi ala Palestine Mahmoud Abbas ka ọ nabata ikike nke Ụlọikpe Mba Nile - nke Ụlọikpe Criminal International maka Palestine, nke o mere. Ọ na-ewute m ịkọ na Ụlọikpe Criminal International emebeghị otu ihe darn iji nyere ndị Palestine aka kemgbe 2009. Ụlọikpe Criminal International nwere ọbara niile nke ndị Palestine n'aka ya kemgbe 2009. Na, Juan, ọ bụ ya mere anyị ji guzobe mkpọsa iji chọta steeti dị njikere itinye akwụkwọ n'ụlọ ikpe mba ụwa, Ụlọikpe Ụwa.
The ICC na-arụ ọrụ n'ụzọ ziri ezi nke ndị na-akwado ya na ndị guzobere ya na ndị nna ukwu, nke bụ U.S., na NATO na-ekwu, European steeti, wdg ruo mgbe ha ngwa ngwa ebubo nke President Putin ka U.S.-NATO N'ikpe megide Russia, Ụlọikpe Mpụ Mba Nile eboghị otu onye America, otu onye Europe, otu Briten, otu NATO nwa amaala na otu onye Israel, na otu onye ọcha.
Yabụ, anyị agaala — anyị nwere mkpọsa ugbu a iji kwado Republic of South Africa n'Ụlọikpe Ikpe Mba Nile. Ma anyị na-ajụ — anyị na-amalite mkpọsa a taa. Abụ m akụkụ nke njikọ aka. Anyị na-amalite mgbasa ozi a taa iji nweta ndị otu Mgbakọ Mgbukpọ ka ha depụta nkwupụta ntinye aka na Ụlọikpe Ụwa na nkwado na ịdị n'otu na South Africa megide Israel na nkwado nke ndị Palestine. Ihe omume ahụ a tụrụ anya ga-apụ taa.
JOHN GONZÁLEZ: Francis, achọrọ m ịjụ gị, n'agbanyeghị - Joan Donoghue bụ onye isi oche nke Ụlọikpe Ikpe Ikpe Mba Nile. Ọ rụrụ ọrụ na mbụ na US State Department. Kedu ka ị chere na ọ ga-abịarute ngwa South Africa? Kedu ike ọ nwere iji hazie usoro a?
FRANCIS NWA nwoke: Nke ahụ bụ ezigbo ajụjụ, Juan. Ee, Donoghue bụ ngwa ọrụ iwu na Ngalaba Steeti US na-arụ ọrụ ogologo oge, nke bụ otu o siri nweta ọrụ ahụ. Eji m n'aka na ọ na-akpọtụrụ ugbu a na Ngalaba Ọchịchị US, na-enye ha isi ihe niile na-eme n'ebe ahụ na Hague n'azụ ihe nkiri. Ọ ga-ekpu n'ahịrị pati State Department na usoro ndị a. Ọ na-ewute m ịkọ akụkọ onye isi ala nwere ikike dị ukwuu ebe ahụ ịkpụzi usoro ndị a. Atụrụ m anya na ọ ga-eji ike ahụ kpụzie usoro ahụ maka ọdịmma Izrel.
Agbanyeghị, a dụrụkwa m ọdụ na Republic of South Africa, ka ọ dị ugbu a, na-ahọpụta onye ọka ikpe ndapụta. Nke ahụ bụ ikike ha n'okpuru iwu nke Ụlọikpe Ikpe Mba Nile. Enweghị m aha ma, mana m ga-atụ anya onye ọka ikpe South Africa ndapụta ga-eme ike ya niile ịgbalị idobe Donoghue kwụ ọtọ.
AMY GOODMAN: Achọrọ m ịlaghachi na South Africa, onye mere akwụkwọ mkpesa mgbukpọ a. Na 2008, enwere m ohere ekwu okwu ya na akara ngosi mgbochi ịkpa ókè agbụrụ South Africa, Archbishop Desmond Tutu nwetara Nobel Peace. Ahụrụ m ya n’ụlọ osote onye nnọchi anya South Africa dị na New York ozugbo tupu Archbishọp Tutu anata ihe nrite Global Citizens Circle. Ajụrụ m ya gbasara Palestine.
AMY GOODMAN: Ị ga-atụnyere ọrụ nke Gaza na West Bank ka apartheid South Africa?
ARCHBISHOP DESMOND TUTU: M ga-ekwu maka ihe m maara. M pụtara, ọtụtụ ndị mmadụ - onye Juu na-emekarị na-ekwu banyere ahụmahụ ha na eleghị anya, tụnyere ihe ọ bụla ọ bụ na-eme na ihe mere n'oge Oké Mgbukpọ ahụ. Maka m, na-abịa site na South Africa na-aga - m na-ekwu, na-ele anya na ndị na-enyocha ndị agha na mpako nke ndị agha na-eto eto, eleghị anya na-atụ egwu, ma eleghị anya na-ekpuchi egwu ha, ọ dịghị ụzọ m na-enweghị ike ikwu - n'ezie, na. bụ eziokwu. Ọ na-echetara m - ọ na-echetara m ụdị ahụmahụ ndị anyị nwetara.
AMY GOODMAN: Ya mere, nke ahụ bụ Archbishọp Desmond Tutu. Francis Boyle, kwuo maka mkpa ọ bụ South Africa na ihe ọ pụtara maka otu steeti iweta ebubo megide steeti ọzọ. Ole ndị bụ ndị debanyere aha ebe a? Oleekwa otú nke a si ejikọta ya? Dị ka ihe atụ, kọwaa ihe mere na Bosnia.
FRANCIS NWA nwoke: O doro anya. Ọfọn, nke mbụ, njikọ dị n'ebe ahụ na onye nwụrụ anwụ, nnukwu Archbishọp Tutu, onye ndụmọdụ ndu ugbu a na ikpe maka South Africa bụ prọfesọ John Dugard, enyi m ogologo oge. Prọfesọ Dugard bụ otu n'ime ndị ọkachamara ọcha nwere obi ike nke iwu mba ụwa bụ ndị megidere usoro ịkpa ókè agbụrụ na mba South Africa, nọ n'ihe ize ndụ nye ndụ ya. Nke abụọ, ka emechara, Prọfesọ Dugard ghọrọ onye nta akụkọ pụrụ iche UN maka Palestine. Agụrụ m akụkọ ya niile. Ha dị oke mma. Obi na isi Prọfesọ Dugard nọ n'ebe kwesịrị ekwesị na ndị Palestine, ọ bụkwa otu n'ime ndị ọkachamara kachasị elu nke iwu mba ụwa n'ụwa.
Ya mere, enwere ntụnyere kpọmkwem n'etiti usoro ịkpa ókè agbụrụ nke Israel na ndị Palestine niile, gụnyere ụmụ amaala Palestine nke Israel, na ihe mere na apartheid South Africa. N'ezie, Prọfesọ Dugard edewo na usoro ịkpa ókè agbụrụ nke Israel megide ndị Palestine dị njọ karịa nke apartheid nke ndị Afrikaners tinyere na ndị ojii na South Africa.
Etinyere m aka na mgba megide ịkpa ókè agbụrụ na South Africa, nke ahụ bụkwa nyocha m. N'ezie, myirịta ebe a mere ka m, na Nọvemba 2000, na-akpọ maka nguzobe, na a okwu - nguzobe nke divestment / disinvestment mkpọsa megide Israel, n'ihi kpọmkwem otu ihe mere anyị nwere a divestment / disinvestment mkpọsa megide mpụ apartheid. ọchịchị na South Africa. Ma mgbe ahụ, na 2005, ndị obodo Palestine kpọtụụrụ m ka m soro ha wee guzobe mkpọsa Palestine Boycott, Divestment na Sanctions megide Israel, megide Israel apartheid, maka otu ihe kpatara anyị ji nwee BDS mkpọsa megide ndị omekome apartheid na South Africa.
Ya mere, Tutu, Dugard, mụ na, m ga - Ramaphosa, onye ozi ala ọzọ na South Africa, bụ onye kwuru okwu na-adọrọ adọrọ, ha niile ghọtara ihe na-eme ebe a na ihe dị mkpa.
AMY GOODMAN: Na okwu gbasara mkpochapụ na Bosnia, ọ bụrụ na ị nwere ike ịkọwa, maka ndị na-amaghị ihe merenụ? Oleekwa otú eboro ebubo ndị eboro Ụlọikpe Ikpe Mba Nile?
FRANCIS NWA nwoke: Ee. Ọfọn, Yugoslavia kpochapụrụ ihe dị ka ndị Bosnia 200,000, dinara ihe dị ka ụmụ nwanyị Bosnia 40,000 n'ike. Abụ m ọkàiwu maka ha niile, na-arụrịta ụka n'okwu ikpe ha n'Ụlọikpe Ikpe Mba Nile. Emerikwara m iwu abụọ a n’April 8, 1993, na 13 Septemba, 1993. Ruo mgbe m meriri n’iwu ahụ, n’April 8, 1993, onye ọ bụla na-agọnarị na mgbukpọ na-aga n’ihu. Ma ozugbo m meriri n'iwu ahụ, nke ahụ dị oke ma na-akwado ndị Bosnia, ọ nweghị onye nwere ike ịgọnarị ọzọ na mgbukpọ na-aga n'ihu.
Banyere ịdị irè, mgbe m si n’Ụlọikpe Ụwa pụọ na 8 Eprel, 1993, wee merie n’iwu ahụ, abanyera m n’ime ọnụ ụlọ dị n’ebe ahụ ná mpụga nnukwu ụlọikpe ahụ. Ụlọ ọrụ mgbasa ozi ụwa niile nọ ebe ahụ. M wee sị n’oge ahụ, “Ụlọikpe Ụwa ekpebiela na mgbukpọ na-aga n’ihu na Bosnia na Herzegovina. N'okpuru Nkeji edemede I, ndị otu steeti ọ bụla na Mgbakọ Mgbukpọ nwere ọrụ igbochi mgbukpọ na Bosnia. Ma a na m arịọ ndị United States na ndị agha aka ozugbo NATO kwuru iji zọpụta ndị Bosnia na mgbukpọ." Mgbe ụbọchị ahụ gasịrị, United States na NATO kwuputara na ha na-ewepụta mpaghara anaghị efe efe, na-amanye mpaghara anaghị efe efe na Bosnia. Ya mere iwu ndị a nke Ụlọikpe Ụwa nwere ike ịkpata nsonaazụ.
Ọ ga-abụkwa anyị ebe a na United States chepụta atụmatụ maka nsonaazụ maka ọchịchị Biden, n'ihi na anyị ga-amanye ndị ọchịchị Biden iwu ka Israel kwụsị mgbukpọ ahụ. Ha ga-eme ihe anyị bụ́ ndị Amerịka gwara ha ka ha mee. Na Operation Cast Lead, nke na-aga n'ihu ruo nwa oge n'okpuru Onye isi ala Bush Jr., Obama - ndị Obama na-abata n'ọchịchị. A na-achọ ịwepụta Obama. Na ka ọ ghara imebi nraranye nke Obama, ọchịchị United States gwara Israel ka ha kwụsị Operation Cast Lead. Yabụ na anyị ga-aghọta na anyị ebe a na United States of America nwere ike ịkwụsị nke a. Mana anyị ga-echepụta ka anyị ga-esi jiri usoro South Africa ga-emeri ebe a na United States of America.
Nke a bụ kpọmkwem ihe mere na Nicaragua. Ị ga-echeta, Amy, etinyere m aka n'ịdụ ọdụ ihe fọrọ nke nta ka ọ bụrụ udo ọ bụla NGO na onye ọka iwu ebe a na United States na okwu gbasara iwu gbasara agha Reagan megide Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatemala. Onye nkuzi m, onye ndụmọdụ na enyi m, onye mbubreyo, nnukwu Abe Chayes na Harvard Law School, meriri iwu Ụlọikpe Ụwa megide ọchịchị Reagan na 1984, nakwa ikpe ikpe ikpeazụ na uru na 1986. Anyị nọ na United States ji nke ahụ mee ihe. Iwu Ụlọikpe Ụwa na ikpe ikpeazụ iji kwụsị agha Reagan megide Nicaragua. Ọ dị nwute, 16,000 -
AMY GOODMAN: Anyị nwere sekọnd iri.
FRANCIS NWA nwoke: N'ụzọ dị mwute, e gburu ndị Nicaragua 16,000, gụnyere nwa amaala U.S. Ben Linder, ma anyị kwụsịrị nke ahụ. Ekwenyere m na site na iwu Ụlọikpe Ụwa a na South Africa ga-emeri, anyị nwere ike ịkwụsị ihe Israel na-eme ndị Palestine.
AMY GOODMAN: Francis Boyle, prọfesọ nke iwu mba ụwa na Mahadum nke Illinois College of Law. Akwụkwọ ya gụnyere Ndị Bosnia na-ebo ebubo mgbukpọ, Palestine, ndị Palestine, na iwu mba ụwa, yana Ọchịchị ụwa, ikike mmadụ, na iwu mba ụwa.
A na-akwado ZNetwork naanị site na mmesapụ aka nke ndị na-agụ ya.
inye