PAUL JAY, SENIOR EDITOR, TRNN: Welina mai i The Real News Network. ʻO wau ʻo Paul Jay. Aia au ma Ramallah, Palesetine. A ke hui pū nei me mākou mai ["la-ROOJ"] Café ma Ramallah ʻo Omar Barghouti. He lālā hoʻokumu ʻo ia o ka Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel. Mahalo no kou hui ʻana mai iā mākou.
OMAR BARGHOUTI, PALESTINIAN CAMPAIGN FOR THE ACADEMIC AND CULTURAL BOYCOTT OF ISRAEL: Mahalo iā ʻoe.
JAY: No laila he aha kēia boycott?
BARGHOUTI: ʻO ka Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel ʻoiaʻiʻo kekahi ʻāpana o ka Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions movement, a i ʻole BDS no ka pōkole. Ua hoʻomaka mākou i ka Boycott Academic and Cultural Boycott ma 2004, a ʻo ka hoʻolaha nui Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions i 2005. ʻO ka hoʻolaha BDS, mai ka manawa mua loa, ua kākoʻo ʻia e ka ʻoi aku o 170 o nā hui nui i ka hui kīwila Palestinian, me ka hui nui. nā hui kālepa, nā hui wahine, nā pūʻali kālai'āina, nā NGO, a pēlā aku a pēlā aku. No laila, he neʻe kēia e pili kokoke ana i ka ʻae like e hiki ai iā ʻoe ke loaʻa, a ʻaʻole ia wale nō ma waena o ka poʻe Palestinian i ka West Bank i noho ʻia, Gaza, me Ierusalema Hikina, akā ʻo Palestinians hoʻi i loko o ka ʻIseraʻela, a ʻo ka hapa nui loa o ka poʻe Palestinian. ka poe e noho pio ana ma ka Diaspora.
JAY: A he aha kāu e noi nei i ka poʻe ma waho o ka ʻIseraʻela e hana?
BARGHOUTI: ʻO ka manaʻo nui o ka hoʻolaha boycott ʻo ia ka hoʻopaʻa ʻana i ka ʻIseraʻela i ke kānāwai o ka honua ma o ka hoʻomaopopo ʻana i kā mākou mau kuleana kumu ʻekolu. No laila, ʻo ia ke ala e pili ana i nā kuleana. Ke hoʻopau nei nā kuleana ʻekolu i ka noho ʻana, ka 1967 noho ma West Bank, Gaza, a me nā ʻāina ʻē aʻe o Arab, nā Golan Heights a pēlā aku. ʻO ka lua ke hoʻopau nei i kēia ʻōnaehana o ka hoʻokae lāhui i loko o ka ʻIseraʻela. Aia kekahi ʻōnaehana hoʻokaʻawale ʻana i ka lāhui i loko o ka ʻIseraʻela a mākou e kāhea nei e hoʻopau.
JAY: No ka laʻana?
BARGHOUTI: E hele au i kēlā ma hope o koʻu hoʻopau ʻana i ke kolu o ka helu, ʻo ia ke kuleana o ka hoʻi ʻana no ka poʻe mahuka. A ʻo kēia ke kumu nui. Wahi a UN Resolution 194, he kuleana ko ka poʻe mahuka Palestinian e hoʻi i ko lākou mau home hānau. No laila ʻo kēia nā ʻāpana ʻekolu. ʻO ka lua ka mea liʻiliʻi i hoʻomaopopo ʻia, e hoʻopau ana i ka ʻōnaehana hoʻokae lāhui. Akā, ʻōlelo ka poʻe, akā ʻaʻole anei ʻo ʻIseraʻela kahi demokala? ʻAe, ʻoiaʻiʻo, ʻaʻole e like me ka US State Department. [inaudible] ʻAmelika [inaudible] ʻaʻole ia he kukui pono kanaka a kuhikuhi paha. Akā ʻo ka US State Department nā hōʻike pono kanaka i hoʻāhewa mau i ka hoʻokae ʻana o ka ʻIseraʻela ma ke kānāwai i kona mau kamaʻāina ʻaʻole Iudaio, nā kamaʻāina ʻArabia o ʻIseraʻela, nā Palestinians, nā ʻōiwi Palestinians o ʻIseraʻela. ʻO ka hoʻokae ʻana ma kahi kokoke i nā ʻāpana koʻikoʻi a pau o ka mokuʻāina o ka ʻIseraʻela, mai ke ʻano o ka wehewehe ʻana o ka mokuʻāina iā ia iho he mokuʻāina Iudaio ma mua o kahi mokuʻāina o kona poʻe kamaʻāina - no laila ʻo kēia wale nō ka mokuʻāina i ka honua i wehewehe ʻole iā ia iho he mokuʻāina. mokuaina o kona mau makaainana.
JAY: I kēia manawa, inā e hana ʻoe i kekahi o nā pilikia e pili ana i ka boycott, a laila ke ʻōlelo nei ʻoe aia ka boycott a ʻaʻohe mokuʻāina Iudaio.
BARGHOUTI: ʻAʻole, ʻaʻole mākou e ʻōlelo pēlā. A hiki ʻole ke hoʻokae ʻia. Hiki iā lākou ke kapa iā lākou iho i nā mea a lākou e makemake ai. Akā a hiki i ka pau ʻana o ka hoʻokae ʻana, a hiki i ke kānāwai, e pau ka hoʻokae ʻia ʻana.
JAY: No laila e hāʻawi i kekahi mau laʻana o nā mea āu e makemake ai e hooki.
BARGHOUTI: No ka laʻana, ka hoʻokae ʻana i ka ʻāina. ʻAʻole ʻae ʻia ka Palestinians i loko o ka ʻIseraʻela e noho, hoʻolimalima, a noho paha ma kahi o 93 pakeneka o nā ʻāina mokuʻāina, i mālama ʻia no nā kamaʻāina Iudaio o ka ʻIseraʻela a i ʻole kekahi Iudaio ma ka honua. Aia ka ʻIseraʻela i kēia ʻōnaehana kahi inā he Iudaio ʻoe e lilo i lāhui. ʻO kahi Palestinian i hānau ʻia ma ʻIseraʻela he kamaʻāina ʻaʻole ia he lāhui o ka ʻIseraʻela. ʻO kēia ʻokoʻa ma waena kamaaina wau a aupuni No laila hiki i kahi Iudaio Kanada ke hele mai i ka ʻIseraʻela i ka lā ʻapōpō a loaʻa iā ia nā kuleana ʻoi aʻe ma mua o kaʻu wahine, i hānau ʻia ma Haifa i loko o ka ʻIseraʻela, no ka mea he kamaʻāina ʻIseraʻela ʻo ia a he lāhui Iudaio.
JAY: He aha ka la'ana o ka pono a keia kanaka i loaa ole i kau wahine?
BARGHOUTI: ʻO ka kuleana, no ka laʻana, ma ka hapa nui o ka ʻāina o ʻIseraʻela. Hiki iā ia ke kūʻai i ka ʻāina ma nā wahi a pau, hoʻolimalima, a pēlā aku. ʻAʻole hiki i kaʻu wahine.
JAY: ʻAʻole hiki i kāu wahine ke loaʻa kahi condominium ma—.
BARGHOUTI: Ma ka hapa nui o nā wahi o ka ʻIseraʻela, ʻo wau, ma 93 pakeneka.
JAY: Papa ia e ke kanawai.
BARGHOUTI: Ma ke kānāwai.
JAY: He aha hou?
BARGHOUTI: Hana. I kēlā me kēia pae, inā ʻaʻole ʻoe he Iudaio, ma ka hapanui o nā hihia ʻaʻole pono ʻoe e noi no kēia mau hana.
JAY: No ka laʻana, he aha kahi hana hiki ʻole iā ʻoe ke noi?
BARGHOUTI: ʻO ka hapa nui o nā hana aupuni, ka hapa nui o nā hana aupuni. Ke kamaʻilio nei mākou e pili ana i ka nui o ka poʻe Palestinians e hana nei i nā ʻoihana, ma nā kūlana aupuni āpau, he liʻiliʻi, liʻiliʻi liʻiliʻi, ʻoi aku ka liʻiliʻi o ka poʻe Palestinians, ʻo ka hapa o nā Palestinians i loko o ka hui Israeli. Akā ma nā pilikia e like me ke olakino, mālama ola kino, hoʻonaʻauao—.
JAY: He aha ka mea e pani ai i kahi Palestinian Israeli e hele ana i ka haukapila mālama olakino kiʻekiʻe ma kahi kaiāulu Iudaio? Aia kekahi mea e pale ai iā lākou mai ka hele ʻana?
BARGHOUTI: Nui nā lula ʻoihana e paʻakikī loa iā ʻoe ke loaʻa ka lawelawe ma ke keʻena hauʻoli ʻaʻole ma kou wahi e noho ai. E hāʻawi wau i hoʻokahi laʻana paʻa loa: ka noiʻi ʻana i ka maʻi kanesa, kahi mea maikaʻi loa. ʻO ka mokuʻāina o ʻIseraʻela, ʻo ke Kuhina Ola, ua hana i kahi noiʻi lōʻihi loa i nā kumu o ka maʻi kanesa a me nā mea haumia e hoʻoulu ai i ka maʻi kanesa, a ʻike i ka pilina ma waena o nā mea haumia a me ka helu o ka maʻi kanesa. ʻO nā mea a lākou i hana ai i kēlā mau makahiki, ua lele lākou i kēlā me kēia kauhale Palestine a me ke kūlanakauhale i loko o ka ʻIseraʻela koe wale nō. A ʻo kēia ʻano hoʻokalakupua, ʻaʻole ʻoe e noiʻi nei i ka maʻi kanesa ma nā kaiāulu Palestinian i loko o ka ʻIseraʻela, ua nīnau ʻia, a ʻōlelo lākou, ʻo, pilikia kālā. Akā no ke aha i pili ai nā pilikia kālā i nā kaiāulu Palestinian? A ua hoʻoholo kekahi poʻe noiʻi ma ka hapa nui o nā wahi haumia, aia lākou ma ka ʻaoʻao o nā kauhale Arab a i ʻole nā kūlanakauhale Arab, no laila inā ʻoe i aʻo iā lākou, inā ua hōʻoia ʻoe i ka piʻi wikiwiki ʻana o ka maʻi kanesa ma waena o Palestinians, pālua. ka poe Iudaio ma na wahi he nui, no ka mea, ua kukuluia na mea haumia a pau ma kahi kokoke i na kulanakauhale o Palesetine.
JAY: No laila he aha ka hopena o ka neʻe ʻana o ka boycott i kēia manawa? Aia i hea kahi lanakila? A he aha ka hopena o ka hoʻokele waiwai o ka ʻIseraʻela a i ʻole ke ola moʻomeheu?
BARGHOUTI: ʻAe. No laila, ʻelima, ʻeono makahiki ka neʻe ʻana o ka boycott. ʻAʻole hiki ke kamaʻilio e pili ana i ka hopena o ka hoʻokele waiwai o ka ʻIseraʻela. Loaʻa ia, akā ʻaʻole ka hopena nui. I kēia manawa, ʻaʻole ia e pili ana i ka lilo ʻana o ka waiwai o ka ʻIseraʻela. ʻAʻole hiki iā mākou ke hana wikiwiki. E pili ana i ka hōʻike ʻana i ka ʻIseraʻela no ke ʻano o ia mea, he mokuʻāina apartheid e hoʻomaʻamaʻa ana i ka noho a me ka colonization. He hui kūʻokoʻa loa ia o ka noho, colonization, a me ka apartheid. A ʻo kēia e kūʻē i ka hōʻailona o ka ʻIseraʻela ma ke Komohana, inā makemake ʻoe, e like me ka democracy i loaʻa kekahi pilikia o ka noho ʻana i kahi ʻāina kokoke. ʻAʻole pili wale i ka hana; ʻO ia hoʻi e pili ana i ka ʻōnaehana o ka apartheid i loko o ka ʻIseraʻela a me ke ʻano koʻikoʻi o ka pono ʻole, ʻo ka hōʻole ʻana o ka poʻe mahuka Palestinian i kā lākou mau kuleana i ʻae ʻia e UN e hoʻi. Ua loaʻa iā mākou nā lanakila he nui i kēlā mau makahiki ʻelima, ʻeono. ʻOiaʻiʻo, ke hoʻohālikelike ʻia me ʻApelika Hema, ka neʻe anti-apartheid o ʻApelika Hema, haʻi mai ko mākou mau hoa ʻApelika Hema iā mākou e hele wikiwiki ana mākou i ka hoʻohālikelike ʻana, no ka mea, i loko o ʻelima, ʻeono makahiki ua hiki mākou i ke kumu nui i nā hui Komohana, me Kanada. , Beretania, Farani, Italia, Belegiuma, Norewai, a pela aku, aole e hai aku i ka Hema. ʻO kā mākou poʻe kākoʻo o ʻApelika Hema [inaudible] nā hui kaiaulu nui loa ma ʻApelika Hema, ua puka mai a kākoʻo i ka boycott. Akā ma Kanada, ʻo ka Canadian Union of Postal Workers, no ka laʻana-he uniona aupuni ia-ua puka mai ia e kākoʻo i ka boycott. Ua kākoʻo ʻia ka Hui Kanaka o nā limahana o ka lehulehu ma Ontario, a me kekahi mau mea ʻē aʻe, ʻo ia hoʻi—.
JAY: Pehea ma ʻAmelika Hui Pū ʻIa?
BARGHOUTI: Ma ʻAmelika ʻaʻohe o mākou uniona, akā nui nā hui i komo i ka boycott. ʻO kekahi laʻana, ʻo ia ka hoʻolaha hoʻonaʻauao a me ka moʻomeheu moʻomeheu ma US. Ua kapa ʻia ʻo US ACPE. Ua hoʻopuka ʻo US Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott o ʻIseraʻela i kahi ʻōlelo i hōʻea lākou i 500 mau mea kākoʻo - nā mea hoʻonaʻauao a me nā mea hana kiʻi - ma US e kākoʻo ana i kēia boycott. No laila, ma nā kūlana ʻAmelika he helu liʻiliʻi ʻo 500, akā ma ke ʻano maʻamau, he pae nui i mua.
JAY: Aia kekahi mau ʻōlelo hoʻohewa mai loko mai o ka ʻIseraʻela, mai nā kumu aʻoaʻo a me nā mea hoʻonaʻauao, ʻo ia hoʻi, ka poʻe hoʻohewa i ke kulekele ʻIseraʻela, e like me ka laʻana, kūʻē i ka hoʻouka ʻana iā Gaza. Akā ke ʻōlelo nei kekahi o kēia mau polopeka, ke hoʻokaʻawale nei ʻoe iā mākou mai ka hoʻopili ʻana, ʻo ʻoe nō, no ka laʻana, ma ka ʻōlelo ʻana ʻaʻole pono e pili nā kulanui o ke Komohana me nā kula ʻIseraʻela, ua hoʻokaʻawale ʻoe i ka holomua o ka ʻIseraʻela. He aha kāu pane i kēlā?
BARGHOUTI: Manaʻo wau ua hoʻomāhuahua lākou i ko lākou ʻāpana i ke kaiāulu kula ma ʻIseraʻela. A ʻo lākou ka ʻIseraʻela-centric. ʻO koʻu manaʻo, ua puni ka honua iā lākou. E pili ana i nā pono Palestinian a me ka hoʻokaumaha a me ka pono ʻole o ka ʻIseraʻela a me ke kuleana o ke kula ʻIseraʻela ma ke ʻano he hoa pili i ka ʻōnaehana hoʻokaumaha. ʻO ka ʻoiaʻiʻo, ʻaʻohe kulanui o ʻIseraʻela i puka mai e kūʻē i ka noho ʻana. ʻO ka nui o nā mea hoʻonaʻauao o ka ʻIseraʻela i hoʻāhewa i ka noho ʻana, ʻo ka hana wale nō, e waiho wale i ka apartheid i loko o ka ʻIseraʻela a i ʻole ka hōʻole ʻana i nā kuleana o ka poʻe mahuka, he mau haneli he 9,000. I kēia mau lā, i ka makahiki 2008, ua hoʻomaka nā mea hoʻonaʻauao Iudaio-ʻIseraʻela 4 i kahi palapala noi e kāhea ana i ka pūʻali koa ʻIseraʻela ma nā teritore-ʻaʻole lākou i kapa ʻia ʻo "nā ʻāina i noho ʻia" - ma nā panalāʻau e ʻae i ka hele ʻana i nā alahele koa i nā kula a me nā haumāna Palestinian. i kā lākou mau kula a me nā kulanui—ʻo ka koi nui loa no ke kūʻokoʻa hoʻonaʻauao—a ua hoʻouna lākou i nā mea hoʻonaʻauao āpau 9,000, me ka manaʻo e kau inoa nā mea a pau. Pono nā mea hoʻonaʻauao kūʻokoʻa pono e kākoʻo i kēia koi kumu. He 407 wale no i kakau i keia palapala noi, mailoko mai o 9,000.
JAY: ʻAe, no ka pololei, ʻaʻole kā lākou hoʻopaʻapaʻa e nalowale ana kekahi mau pono. Ma ka liʻiliʻi, ʻaʻole ia ka hoʻopaʻapaʻa a lākou i hana ai. ʻO kā lākou hoʻopaʻapaʻa ʻo ia ka hoʻonāwaliwali i ko lākou lima i loko o ka ʻIseraʻela [inaudible]
BARGHOUTI: ʻAʻohe neʻe hema i ka ʻIseraʻela. He poʻe lākou i pili ʻole i ka hui Israeli. Inā ʻoe e nānā i nā koho pāremata, ke neʻe wikiwiki nei ʻo ʻIseraʻela i ka ʻaoʻao ʻākau loa, a i kekahi ʻano i ka ʻaoʻao fascist i kekahi mau ʻaoʻao o ka ʻIseraʻela - a ke hoʻohana nei au i kēlā huaʻōlelo me ka noʻonoʻo. Aia nā ʻaoʻao fascist ma ʻIseraʻela e like me nā ʻaoʻao fascist ma ʻEulopa a me nā wahi ʻē aʻe. A ke neʻe nei ka ʻIseraʻela i kahi mamao loa i ka ʻākau, me ka hoʻomaʻemaʻe lāhui i lilo i huaʻōlelo koʻikoʻi i hoʻohana ʻia ma ke kula, ma ka pāpā, ma ka hale pālapa, ma nā ʻaha kūkā. Kāhea ʻia ʻo ia no ka hoʻokae ʻana ma nā pae āpau.
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