Leo Panitch ʻO ia ka Luna Hoʻonaʻauao kiʻekiʻe a me ka Emeritus Professor of Political Science ma ke Kulanui o York. ʻO ia ka mea kākau o nā puke he nui, ʻo ia ka mea hou loa i loaʻa iā UK Deutscher Memorial Prize lanakila ʻO ka hana ʻana o Global Capitalism: The Political Economy of American Empire, I loko a i waho o ka pilikia: ʻO ka Global Financial Meltdown a me nā ʻē aʻe hema, , Hoʻohou i ka Socialism: Democracy, Strategy and Imagination a ʻO ka hopena o ka Socialism Parliamentary: Mai ka hema hou a i ka hana hou. He luna hoʻoponopono pū ʻo ia o ka Kakau inoa Socialist, nona ka 2017 volume, e hoʻokuʻu ʻia i ka manawa no ka ʻaha kūkā o ka Labour Party a hoʻokuʻu ʻia ma Lākana i Nowemapa. Noonoo Hou.
SHARMINI PERIES: ʻO ia ka Pūnaewele Nūhou maoli. ʻO wau ʻo Sharmini Peries, e hele mai ana iā ʻoe mai Baltimore.
Ma waena o nā hana kū'ē i Helene, e koi ana e hoʻopau i ka austerity, ua ʻae ke aupuni Syriza i ka nānā hohonu ʻana i nā hoʻoponopono hou aʻe. Ua hana nā Kuhina Waiwai Eurozone i kēia mau koi e hoʻokuʻu i ka hoʻokuʻu hou ʻana o ka 86 biliona kālā o ka bailout. Ke kū nei ʻo Helene i kahi bila hōʻaiʻē 7.4 biliona i Iulai. E hoʻohana ʻia ka ʻāpana ʻelua o ka bailout i kēia manawa no ka uku ʻana i kēlā ʻaiʻē.
E kamaʻilio pū me aʻu e pili ana i kēia mau mea, ʻo Leo Panitch. ʻO Leo ʻo Professor Emeritus, a me Senior Scholar, ma ke Kulanui o York ma Toronto. ʻO ia ka luna hoʻoponopono o ka Annual Socialist Register, ʻo ia ka Volume 2016 ma luna, The Politics of the Right. ʻO Leo pū kekahi mea kākau o ka UK Deutsche Book Prize winner, "The Making of Global Capitalism: The Political Economy of American Empire".
Mahalo nui iā ʻoe no kou hui pū ʻana me aʻu, e Leo.
LEO PANITCH: Aloha, Sharmini.
SHARMINI PERIES: No laila, ʻo Leo, kokoke i ʻehiku mau makahiki o ka austerity a me ka bailouts ʻaʻole i hāʻawi maoli i nā kūlana maikaʻi aʻe no ka poʻe ma Helene. ʻOiaʻiʻo, ua piʻi ka ʻilihune, a he aha ka mea e hana nei? He aha nā kūlana ma ka honua e kū nei nā kānaka? E hoʻomaka kākou ma laila, ma mua o ke komo ʻana i nā kūkākūkā e hana nei.
LEO PANITCH: ʻAe, ʻoiaʻiʻo, ke mau nei ke kūlana e like me ka wā ma mua. ʻOiaʻiʻo, ʻoiai aia kekahi manaʻo maikaʻi e pili ana i ka ulu ʻana i ka makahiki i hala - i ka hapaha hope o 2016 - aia kahi lohi. A ua puka mai ka helu helu e ʻōlelo ana aia ka hapa nui o ka pohō o nā hana ma Ianuali, o kēlā me kēia mahina, i kēia mau makahiki ʻehiku i hala.
Ma kahi o 30,000 mau pohō o nā hana, a ʻo nā hana i hana ʻia he hapa manawa, a me nā mea ʻē aʻe. ʻOiai ka poʻe, ʻoiaʻiʻo, hūnā, i mea e pale ai i ka uku ʻana i nā ʻauhau i kaumaha loa. Ke hana nei lākou i hoʻokahi pule piha, a i ʻole ʻelua lā o ka pule, etcetera. ʻAʻole ia he mea hou ma Helene. A ʻo ka manaʻo e hana pēlā, ʻoi aku ka nui.
Akā, he mea koʻikoʻi ke kūlana. A ua paʻi ʻia kekahi ʻāpana i loko o kahi nūpepa nui loa, ʻo Kathimerini, ʻo ia ke ʻano o, nūpepa hae o ka ʻāina, he mea hoʻoneʻe loa, ma ke ʻano o nā waihona meaʻai e lawelawe ana i nā poʻe he nui, a me ka poʻe i manaʻo ʻole. 'd pono e hilinaʻi ma luna o lākou. Ke hilinaʻi nei nā ʻāpana hohonu a hohonu o nā kānaka i nā waihona meaʻai. No laila, koʻikoʻi loa ke kūlana.
SHARMINI PERIES: Ua manaʻo kēlā ʻatikala e like me, 17,000 a 26,000 mau kānaka, e hoʻohana ana i nā waihona meaʻai ma Athens wale nō, e hānai iā lākou. A ke ulu nei kēia mau helu i nā makahiki i hala iho nei.
LEO PANITCH: ʻAe, ʻoiai he helu haʻahaʻa kēlā. Inā ʻo ia wale nō, kāhāhā au. E like me ka nui o ka poʻe e hilinaʻi nei i ko lākou ʻohana ākea, a pēlā aku. ʻAe.
SHARMINI PERIES: No laila, e Leo, manaʻo wau ʻo ka pilikia nui kēia mau hoʻoponopono hou i makemake ʻia e ka troika e nānā. He aha kēia mau hana hoʻoponopono a lākou e makemake ai e nānā?
LEO PANITCH: ʻAe, ʻo ka mea e hana nei ke paʻa nei lākou i kēia kāloti o ka 86 billion euro i ʻae ʻia i hoʻokahi makahiki a me ka hapa i hala. I ka wā i koi ʻia ai ʻo Tsipras e hoʻi hope, ma hope o ka lanakila ʻana i ka referendum, me ka ʻōlelo ʻana ʻaʻole lākou e ʻae hou. A ʻo ka mea nui i ʻōlelo ai ka poʻe ʻEulopa, e hele i waho o ka Eurozone - a implicitly, manaʻo wau i ka EU - a i ʻole e ʻae i kahi pōʻai hou. A he mea hōʻike ia, ʻo ke kūʻē ʻana o ke aupuni, a me ka huhū o ka poʻe ʻEulopa, me ka - ka mea a lākou i manaʻo ai he aupuni komunista i kēia manawa - e ʻae i nā kūlana he nui.
A me ka paʻakikī loa, monomaniacal, koi ʻana ma ka ʻaoʻao o ka poʻe ʻEulopa e hoʻomau i ka austerity, he 3.5% ka nui o ke koena - ʻo ia ma hope o ka uku ʻana i ka ʻaiʻē - he 3.5% ka nui o ka waihona kālā, ʻaʻole hiki iā ʻoe ke hana. A ʻo ke koi ʻana o ka IMF, ʻaʻole, ʻaʻole koʻikoʻi ka austerity, a pono e loaʻa kahi kōkua hōʻaiʻē, me ka 86 billion euros. Pono lākou e hoʻopau i kekahi o ka ʻaiʻē, akā ʻo kā lākou koi ʻana, ʻoi aku ka nui ma mua o ka poʻe ʻEulopa i kēia mau hoʻoponopono hoʻoponopono, ʻo ia hoʻi, ʻaʻole e hoʻi hou i ka hui kūʻokoʻa. Manaʻo wau ʻo ia ka mea nui loa.
Eia kekahi, ʻo ka ʻōnaehana penikala, ka mea e kākoʻo pinepine nei, ʻaʻole wale nā pensioners, akā ʻo nā ʻohana nui o ka poʻe penihana, e hoʻemi nui ʻia. ʻO ia ka hihia i kēia manawa, e noʻonoʻo ʻoe, ua hoʻemi ke aupuni i ka nui o nā uku penikala a nā kānaka e hana ai i loko o ka papa hana penikala, he mea hoʻomaha iki. Akā ʻo ia nā ʻano pāʻani e pāʻani ʻia nei.
A i kekahi manawa, ʻaʻole lākou e hilinaʻi i ke aupuni Syriza e hana i ka mea a lākou e ʻōlelo ai e hana ai, a i ʻole ke aupuni Syriza e kūʻē i ka ʻōlelo ʻana e hana lākou i kēia mau mea, a ʻo nā poʻe ʻē aʻe he koko koko ma kēlā ʻaoʻao kēia ʻaoʻao.
Pono wau e ʻōlelo i ka poʻe Kelemania, ʻoiai, ke hana nei lākou i nā mea a lākou i hana ai i nā makahiki he 35 i hala iho nei - ka mea a lākou i hana ai i ke aupuni Mitterrand i ka hoʻomaka ʻana o '80s - ʻo ia ka mea e hōʻoiaʻiʻo ai i ka austerity, ma ka ʻōlelo ʻana, "A i ʻole. Ua ʻae ʻoe i kēia ʻekolu a me ka hapa hapa keneta kālā keu, a i ʻole e wāwahi mākou i ka Eurozone.
A ʻo kekahi o kēia poʻe democrates, ʻoiaʻiʻo, ʻo kekahi o nā hui socialist radical, ʻo Pedamos paha, a ʻo Syriza, a ʻo Delinka (?), ʻaʻohe manaʻo, ʻaʻohe manaʻo - e like me kāu e ʻike ai mai nā kamaʻilio ʻana a mākou ma mua o Syriza. koho ʻia, ʻo Sharmini - ʻaʻohe manaʻo e haʻalele i ka European Union. ʻAʻole hoʻi lākou i koho ʻia, inā lākou i hōʻike i kēlā manaʻo.
SHARMINI PERIES: ʻAe. A ʻo Leo, e kamaʻilio kākou e pili ana i nā paio i loko o ka troika ponoʻī, e pili ana i nā koi a lākou e hana nei iā Helene. I kēia manawa, ua lawe ʻo IMF i kahi kūlana o ke kākoʻo ʻana ma ka ʻaoʻao o Helene, me ka ʻōlelo ʻana e hoʻopau ʻia ka aie, kekahi pae o ia.
No laila, he aha kēlā mau māhele? ʻEhia ka mana o ka IMF, a he aha ke ʻano o ka hoʻopau ʻana i ka aie e kūpono ai iā Helene?
LEO PANITCH: ʻAe, ʻoi aku ka maikaʻi o ka hoʻopau ʻana i ka aie no Helene. A ʻaʻohe mea hou e pili ana i kēia, nā palapala i hoʻokuʻu ʻia i nā pule i hala iho nei, i ʻike mua ʻia e ka mea haʻiʻōlelo o ke aupuni Syriza ma mua, ma ke ʻano o kāna hoʻokolokolo loiloi hōʻaiʻē. ʻO ka mea i hōʻike i kēlā ala i ka makahiki 2010, i ka wā i loaʻa mua ai ka pilikia mua i ka IMF, ʻaʻole wale nā hōʻike, akā ua puni nā māhele i loko o kona palena.
E nānā, ke ʻike mākou i kēia ʻano o ka ʻaiʻē, hele mākou no ka hōʻemi ʻana i ka ʻaiʻē, ʻo ia hoʻi, ʻo kekahi o nā panakō pilikino - kekahi o nā mea hāʻawi pilikino, ʻaʻole ʻo ka IMF ponoʻī. Akā no ka hoʻololi ʻana i kēlā, ʻoi aku ka nui o ka IMF, ʻoi aku ka leo nui ma mua o nā mea ʻē aʻe, ma nā hoʻoponopono neo-liberal. Ma ka hoopau ana i na palekana pilikanaka, ma ka flexibilization o ka makeke hana, etcetera, etcetera.
No laila, ke inu nei ʻoe i ka lāʻau make, e Sharmini. A ua hoʻoholo ke aupuni, ma ke kaulike - a he paʻakikī ke hoʻopaʻapaʻa me kēia - ʻoiai lākou e makemake nui i ka loiloi hōʻaiʻē, i ka wā lōʻihi, makemake lākou e hiki ke pale aku i kēia ʻano neo-liberalism koʻikoʻi, me ka e kū'ē ana i ka austerity. No laila, e like me kaʻu e ʻōlelo nei, ke inu nei ʻoe i ka lāʻau make.
SHARMINI PERIES: I kēia manawa ua hōʻike nā Kuhina Waiwai, a me kekahi mau ʻōlelo no nā Kuhina Waiwai, aia ka hopena i ka ʻike. Pono e haʻi ʻia ka poʻe Helene, a me ka manaʻoʻiʻo, aia ka mālamalama ma ka hope o ka tunnel, e hoʻohana ai i kā lākou ʻōlelo.
He aha ke ʻano o ia mea, a pehea e hele ai ka poʻe Helene i laila?
LEO PANITCH: E nana; ʻO ka nīnau inā paha e hoʻopuehu lākou i kēia 86 biliona, a inā lākou e hoʻopuehu i kēia mau 86 biliona euros, e hoʻopau ia i ke kaomi. A ʻo ka IMF, a me ka poʻe ʻEulopa, ke hopohopo nei ia manawa, ʻo kēia aupuni - ʻaʻole ia he aupuni neo-liberal i ka manaʻo, akā naʻe, ua koi ʻia e ana ma lalo o ka manamana lima o kēia mau mea hoʻopaʻi o nā mākeke kālā - e huki kēia aupuni i kāna. nā kuʻekuʻe wāwae, ʻaʻole hoʻi e hoʻolauna i ka nui o lākou e like me kā lākou makemake. ʻAʻole e hoʻihoʻi i ka hilinaʻi ʻoihana, etcetera. No laila, aia ke kukui ma ka hope o ka tunnel, inā e hoʻokuʻu ʻia kēia.
A ua ʻōlelo ʻia ma ka nūpepa Helene i kēia lā, aia kekahi mau kamaʻilio e makemake ana ka poʻe ʻEulopa e hoʻokō ʻia i ka lā 7 ʻApelila, ʻoiai ʻaʻole pono e uku ʻia, e like me kāu i ʻōlelo ai, a hiki i Iulai. A ʻo ke kumu o ia, ʻaʻole lākou makemake i kahi keaka Helene ʻē aʻe, e kau ana ma luna o kēia mau koho balota koʻikoʻi loa e hana nei ma ʻEulopa i kēia makahiki.
ʻO ka mua, ke koho balota Farani i ʻApelila a me Mei, a laila ke koho balota Kelemania, i ka hāʻule, ʻaʻole pono lākou i kahi pāʻani Helene e kau ana ma luna o kēia. ʻOi loa me ka ʻōlelo a Marine Le Pen makemake ʻo ia e puka i waho o ka European Union, ʻaʻole hiki ke paʻa ka mea, etcetera, etcetera. A aia kekahi makaʻu, manaʻo wau, ʻike ʻoe, aia kekahi manaʻolana ma ka ʻaoʻao o Syriza, manaʻolana naive paha, ʻo Schulz, ke alakaʻi hou o ka Kelemania Social Democrats, ka mea, ua ʻike ʻoe, ua pana i ka Social Democrats i nā koho balota, mai ua koho ʻia ʻo ia i moho kākela hou. Ke lana nei ka manaolana ma ko lakou aoao e hooluolu ana ke kulana Kelemania, ma ke koho balota Kelemania.
No laila, ke manaʻo nei au, ʻaʻole paha, ʻo ka ʻoiaʻiʻo, e hoʻokō ʻia kēlā disbursement. Hiki paha ke komo i ka nui o ka hele ʻana a me ka holo ʻana, a ʻōlelo ka IMF e hoʻokō ʻia ka mea a lākou i makemake ai. Ke koi nei ka poʻe Kelemania i kā lākou makemake e hana ʻia. ʻO ke aupuni Helene e koi ana i kā lākou makemake e hana ʻia. ʻO ka New Democrats ma Helene, a pono mākou e kamaʻilio e pili ana i kahi o ke kūlana politika. ʻOiaʻiʻo, ʻo ka uē ʻana ʻaʻohe mea i hana ʻia, a i ʻole e piʻi aʻe ana nā mea, a makemake mākou e koho koke.
A ua hana lākou i nā mea a pau e hiki ai, e hoʻopili i ke ola o ke aupuni, ma nā ʻano āpau. No laila, manaʻo wau ʻaʻole hiki ʻole ke hoʻokō ʻia kahi kuʻikahi, a e koi nā kānaka a pau i ka lanakila.
SHARMINI PERIES: A he aha ka mea e hana nei ma Syriza ponoʻī. I kēia manawa ua puka mai ʻo Alexis Tsipras a ʻōlelo ʻaʻole ʻo ia e ʻae i hoʻokahi euro, ma ke ʻano o ka austerity. Akā pehea ke ʻano o kēia mau mea a pau i loko o Syriza?
LEO PANITCH: ʻAe, ʻo kēlā ʻōlelo a Tsipras ', mai kahi hālāwai komite kikowaena o ka pāʻina i mālama ʻia i ʻelua pule i hala. Kahi i hoʻokuʻu ʻia ai kahi ʻōlelo me kēlā ʻōlelo pololei. "ʻAʻole mākou e ʻae i hoʻokahi euro hou." No laila, ʻo ka mea a Tsipras i hoʻolaha ai, ʻaʻole wale ʻo Tsipras, ke aupuni, inā pono lākou e hana i nā hoʻohiki, nā hoʻohiki lōʻihi, e hele a hiki i 2019 a ma hope, ma ka ʻoki ʻana i nā penikala, e uku lākou no kēlā, e. hoʻololi i ka ʻōnaehana ʻauhau.
No laila, ʻaʻohe mea e uku. ʻAʻole loaʻa kahi euro hou o ka austerity. A e noʻonoʻo pono ana i ka mea a ke komite kikowaena i koi ai. E noʻonoʻo ʻoe, ʻaʻole ʻae ʻo Tsipras e kāhea ʻia kahi hālāwai komite waena no nā mahina ʻelima i hala, a hiki i ke kāhea ʻia ʻana o kēia. A ua kapa ʻia kēia mea, ʻaʻohe kānalua, i mea e hōʻike ai i ka poʻe ʻEulopa i ke koi ʻana mai ka pāʻina. A aia ʻo ia ma lalo o kekahi pilikia, ʻoiai ʻaʻole lawa.
A aia kekahi manaʻo, ʻike ʻoe, ke hōʻike nei nā koho balota, nā koho balota ʻekolu hou i ka pule i hala, e hōʻike ana ua hoʻi hou ʻo Syrizas, ma luna o 20%, ʻelua o nā koho balota ʻekolu e hōʻike ana. Ua emi lākou ma kahi o 18. A ʻoiai ʻoi aku ka nui o ka New Democracy ma luna o 30%, ʻike ʻoe, ma kahi o 25 a 30% o ka poʻe e ʻōlelo nei ʻaʻole lākou i hoʻoholo. A ʻo kēlā poʻe i hoʻoholo ʻole, ʻaʻole lākou i kākoʻo i ka demokala hou. A lohe hou ʻoe a ʻoi aku ka nui o ka poʻe i hānai i ka European Union. A aia kekahi koi mai loko mai o ka pāʻina no kahi hoʻolālā hou, ma ka ʻaoʻao o ke alakaʻi, alakaʻi ʻo Tsiperas. Pehea ka ikaika o ia mea, ʻaʻole maopopo.
ʻO koʻu kūlana, a ua kamaʻilio pinepine mākou e pili ana iā ia, ʻo Sharmini, ʻo ia ka mea hiki i ke aupuni ke hana liʻiliʻi loa, no ka hoʻopaʻi nui ʻana o ka European Union. Ma muli o kona makemake ʻole i ka haʻalele ʻana i ka Hui ʻEulopa, a hāʻawi ʻia i ka nele o ke kākoʻo kaulana no ka haʻalele ʻana i ka European Union, ʻoiai inā mākaukau nā kānaka e kākoʻo i ke aupuni ma ke kūʻē ʻana. ʻO ka mea āu e manaʻolana ai, mai ka pāʻina, ʻo ia ka mea e hoʻomau i ka ʻaoʻao o ka hoʻonaʻauao, a me ka hoʻoulu ʻana, a me ka radicalization, o ka lehulehu. ʻO ke ʻano o ka hana ʻana i nā ʻano hana ʻokoʻa, a me ka hoʻohana ʻana, ma nā pae kūloko, kūloko.
A ʻoiaʻiʻo, ke kali nei i kahi hoʻololi i ke koena o nā pūʻali ma ke ao holoʻokoʻa, e hāʻawi iā lākou i kahi lumi e hoʻololi ai. ʻO ka hapa nui, ʻo ka pōʻino maoli o Helene, ʻaʻole ia i hana ʻia, ma ka pāʻina. A inā e loaʻa kahi obituary kaumaha i kākau ʻia no ka hema radical, i mua o ka piʻi ʻana o ka ʻaoʻao ʻākau, a me ka piʻi ʻana o ka neo-liberalism, ʻaʻole ʻo Syriza wale nō, akā ʻo Pademos, a me nā Sanders. 'eheu o ka aoao Demokarata, a me ka eheu Corbyn o ka aoao Labour, aole e hiki ke hana i ka lakou mea i olelo ai, ma ke ano o ka hoopau ana i na mana socialist.
A ʻo ia ka pōʻino maoli o ke kūlana Helene, ʻaʻole i hiki i ka pāʻina ke hana i ka mea e pono ai ke hana, ka mea i koi ʻia ke aupuni e hana, ka mea hiki ke pale aku i ka hana, no ka mea ʻaʻole ia e haʻalele i ka European Union. . A e pili ana i ka ʻoiaʻiʻo o ke kūlana Helene, ke kūlana o ka poʻe, ʻoi aku ka ʻino, i kēia mau makahiki ʻelua a ʻekolu paha, inā lākou i haʻalele.
Inā ua haki ka ʻEulopa, me ke koho ʻana iā Le Pen, no ka laʻana, he aha ka maikaʻi o kēlā mōhai, inā lākou i koho e haʻalele? No laila, he mōhai weliweli ia. No ka loaʻa ʻole o ka aila, ua hoʻohaʻahaʻa ʻia ka drachma, pono lākou i nā mana hoʻopukapuka, a ʻaʻole ia e ʻōlelo ʻia ua kūpono paha ia. ʻAʻole wau makemake i ka European Union, akā ʻoi aku ka hewa o ka nui o ka mōhai no ka hoʻokuke ʻia ʻana mai ka hoʻokele honua.
SHARMINI PERIES: A, ʻo Leo, ʻo ka hope, ke manaʻo nei ʻoe i ka manaʻo o ka poʻe Helene, no ka mea he nui aku ka nele i ka hana, ʻoi aku ka nui o nā mōhai, ʻoi aku ka austerity, ua hoʻololi ʻia ko lākou manaʻo i ka Grexit?
LEO PANITCH: Ke kanalua nei au. ʻAʻole au i ʻike i nā hōʻike he nui no kēia, akā naʻe. Inā ʻo ia ka hihia, ʻaʻole ʻoe e ʻike i ka nui o ka poʻe i hoʻoholo ʻole, a ʻike ʻoe i kekahi kākoʻo no kēlā ʻēheu o Syriza, e hoʻoikaika nei i kēia, a hele aku e kūkulu i kahi hui hou i kapa ʻia ʻo LAE, a aia lākou ma 2%, ʻoi aku ka maikaʻi, ma nā koho balota. A ʻo ia ko lākou kūlana hoʻokahi. No laila ʻaʻole, makaʻu wau ʻaʻole pēlā.
Aia kekahi ʻaoʻao ʻākau o ka puka ʻana mai ka European Union, kahi mana neo-fascist, ʻo ia ka pilikia maoli, a ʻo ia ʻo Golden Dawn, ma Helene. A ʻaʻole lākou e hana i kahi holomua. Mahalo i ka lani. A ke kamaʻilio mau nei ia i ka nui o ka mea e nānā aku ai, me ka mahalo i ka poʻe Helene, ʻoiai ʻaʻole lākou i makemake e haʻalele i ka European Union, makemake maoli lākou i kahi European Union ʻaʻole neo-liberal a egalitarian. i ka hapa nui.
Akā ʻaʻole lākou e huli i ke koho neo-fascist, a he mea nui loa ia i ka pōʻaiapili o ka piʻi ʻana o ka Pono Hou.
SHARMINI PERIES: ʻAe, Leo. E hoʻi koke ana mākou iā ʻoe, manaʻo wau, i nā pule ʻelua e hiki mai ana ke hōʻea nei kēia hui hou i Athens. A ke nānā nei lākou i nā hoʻoponopono hoʻoponopono hohonu no Helene. Manaʻo mākou e loaʻa iā ʻoe i kēlā manawa. Mahalo iā ʻoe i kēia lā.
LEO PANITCH: ʻAe, ua lōʻihi kā mākou hana ʻana i kēia, Sharmini. E ʻoluʻolu e ʻōlelo hope, pono mākou e hoʻōki i ka hui ʻana ma kēia ala.
SHARMINI PERIES: Pololei. (ʻakaʻaka) Mahalo nui iā ʻoe, Leo.
LEO PANITCH: Loihi loa.
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