Sikhuluma nomphikisi wezepolitiki odume umhlaba wonke uNoam Chomsky kanye nombhali wezepolitiki uVijay Prashad ngempi yaseRussia e-Ukraine, manje eseyinyanga yesishiyagalombili. Uma kukhulunywa ngokuqhubeka nempi esikhundleni sokuxoxisana ngokuthula, "i-United States neBrithani bahlukene kakhulu kulokhu," kusho uChomsky. "I-United States yabona i-Ukraine njengohlobo lwesipikili esixegayo lapho ibeka khona izikhali zayo, izigidigidi zamadola ezikhali ... ukuze iqhume iRussia," kusho uPrashad. UChomsky noPrashad bangababhali ababambisene bencwadi entsha, "Ukuhoxiswa: I-Iraq, iLibya, i-Afghanistan, kanye ne-Fragility of U.S. Power," ehlanganisa inqubomgomo yezangaphandle yase-US ehlulekile ezimpini zakamuva kanye nokubaluleka kokubona ngale kwezindaba ezihamba phambili zabezindaba.
Okulotshiweyo
AMY U-GOODMAN: Lokhu Intando yeningi Manje!, democracynow.org. Ngingu-Amy Goodman. Siyaqhubeka nengxoxo yethu no-Vijay Prashad kanye noprofesa uNoam Chomsky, asebebhale incwadi entsha, Ukuhoxiswa: I-Iraq, i-Libya, i-Afghanistan, kanye ne-Fragility of US Power. Mina noJuan Gonzรกlez sakhuluma nabo ngoLwesihlanu njengoba nje uMongameli waseRussia uVladimir Putin ebambe umcimbi wokusayina ukumaka ukuthathwa kwezindawo ezine ze-Ukraine ehlaselwe. Kamuva ngalolo suku, i-Ukraine izofaka isicelo I-NATO ubulungu. Ngibuze uSolwazi Chomsky mayelana nokusakazwa kwemithombo yezindaba yase-US ngempi yase-Ukraine nokuthi iyenza kanjani iphutha.
NOAM I-CHOMSKY: Okokuqala, sikisela ukuqapha okukhulu ngendlela okubikwa ngayo izinto e-United States. Ukuthatha icala elilodwa elibaluleke kakhulu, kube nenani elikhulu, ungasho, ukujabula ngesimangalo sokuthi amazwe amakhulu emhlabeni noma amazwe abaluleke kakhulu eGlobal South, asho ukuthi uModi, undunankulu waseNdiya, ukugxekile. UPutin emhlanganweni obuseSamarkand, lapho atshele khona uPutin ukuthi i-India ayisekeli isikhundla saseRussia. Uma ubheka - ngithathe inkinga yokubheka lokhu kuwebhusayithi esemthethweni kahulumeni waseNdiya. Okwenzekile kuhluke kakhulu. Inkulumo-ze yaseNtshonalanga ibambe amagama angamashumi amabili nambili lapho uModi athi impi akuyona impendulo, futhi lokho kwathathwa njengekhefu neRussia. Uma ufunda umbhalo osele, cishe incwadi yothando eya ku-Putin mayelana nokuthi buhle kangakanani ubudlelwano bethu nokuthi buzoba ngcono kanjani nokuthi sikweseka kanjani nokunye, leyo ngxenye ishiywe ngaphandle - okuyinto empeleni. wonke umlayezo, ushiywe ngaphandle kokubika kwaseNtshonalanga noma ukubika kwe-U.S. Ngakho-ke kufanele ube - yisibonelo esisodwa sokunakekelwa okuningi okufanele kuthathwe.
Iqiniso liwukuthi, emazweni ngamazwe okungenani, i-United States neBrithani zihlukene kakhulu kulokhu. I-Europe ifana nokuhamba, kepha abantu abasekeli leso sikhundla. Njengoba ngishilo, phezu - izwe elibaluleke kakhulu, iJalimane, ngaphezu kwezingxenye ezintathu kwezine livumela ukuthuthela ezingxoxweni ngaso leso sikhathi. Okufanayo naseSlovakia. UMongameli Macron waseFrance, obezinikele kakhulu ekufuneni ukuthola isisombululo okuxoxiswene ngaso, usanda kugcizelela inkolelo yakhe yokuthi yize amathuba encipha njengoba impi iqhubeka, kusenezimbobo. I-United States iyi - kanye neBrithani, i-lackey yayo ngalesi sikhathi, ihlukaniswe kakhulu ekuzibophezeleni kwabo ukuqhubeka nempi, noma ngabe yini imiphumela, ukuze yenze buthaka kakhulu iRussia. Ingabe asekhona amathuba okuxoxisana? Yinye kuphela indlela yokuthola. Yilokho ukuzama. Uma wenqaba ukuzama, kunjalo, akukho ukukhetha, akukho mathuba.
Kuncane kakhulu ukubika ngalokhu e-United States kangangokuthi umuntu angasho okuncane ngokuzethemba, kodwa sinolwazi oluthembekile lokuthi kube nezingxoxo phakathi kweRussia-Ukraine ngaphansi kwe-Turkish Auspices ngo-April okungenzeka ukuthi yayifika ndawana thize. Ngokushesha nje lapho sebemenyezelwe, u-Boris Johnson, owayengundunankulu wase-England ngaleso sikhathi, wandiza waya e-Ukraine futhi ngokusobala wazisa i-Ukraine ukuthi amazwe aseNtshonalanga - okusho ukuthi i-United States neBrithani - ngeke avumele izingxoxo. Walandelwa ngqo nguNobhala Wezokuvikela u-Lloyd Austin, okungenzeka ukuthi unikeze umyalezo wokuthi - uphindaphinda kaningi, futhi lokho manje sekuyinqubomgomo esemthethweni yase-US, yokuthi impi kumele iqhubeke nokwenza buthaka kakhulu iRussia, futhi, kulandela, ukuthi asikho isikhathi sezingxoxo. Hhayi-ke, akukho kulokhu okungashiwo ngokuqiniseka, ngoba kuncane ukuphawula nokubika, futhi lokho okukhona kuphakeme kakhulu - okuvame ukuhlanekezelwa kakhulu, njengasesibonelweni esibalulekile engisanda kusinikeza. Kodwa iqiniso liwukuthi, ngokushesha noma kamuva, kuyodingeka kube khona uhlobo oluthile lwesivumelwano sokuxoxisana, ngaphandle uma uhlangothi olulodwa noma olunye luvuma. Lokho kunengqondo ngempela.
Lapho impi iqhubeka isikhathi eside, lapho igcinwa isikhathi eside, kulapho amathemba okuxazulula ayancipha khona. Lokho kucishe kuzenzekele. Ngakho-ke, ngaphambi kokuhlasela, kubonakala sengathi kunamathuba amahle kakhulu okuxazulula kancane noma ngaphansi ohlakeni lwesivumelwano saseMinsk ngaphansi kweFrance neJalimane, lapho iRussia ne-Ukraine beyamukela ngokombono, nakuba ingazange iyisebenzise. Iqhaza lase-U.S., ukulibeka ngobumnene, lingakhi kulokho. Lokho kuwukubukelwa phansi. Njengoba impi iqhubeka, amathemba ayancipha, kodwa asekhona. Ngasekupheleni kukaMashi, uMongameli uZelensky wakhiqiza ezinye iziphakamiso, ezazingekho kude kakhulu neziphakamiso zeMacron zokuxazulula izinkinga, azifikanga ndawo. Kwakukhona icala lika-April. Asazi ukuthi kwenzekani kusukela ngaleso sikhathi.
Uma impi iphikelela, kuzoba nokucekeleka phansi nokucekelwa phansi okukhulu, kuyanda lokho okubizwa ngomonakalo oyisibambiso kwenye indawo, indlala enkulu ngenxa yokuvalwa kokuthunyelwa kwezimpahla ezithunyelwa ngaphandle koLwandle Olumnyama - kukhona ukuphumula kwalokho, kodwa sinolwazi oluncane ngakho - usongo. ukwanda kwempi yenuzi, futhi mhlawumbe okubaluleke kakhulu kukho konke, futhi okungaxoxwanga ngakho, yiqiniso lokuthi njengoba impi iqhubeka, imizamo elinganiselwe yokubhekana nenkinga enkulu yokucekelwa phansi kwesimo sezulu, leyo ehlehlayo. Esikhundleni sokuhambisa ukunciphisa uphethiloli wezinsalela, okwenzekayo ukunwetshwa kokukhiqizwa kukaphethiloli, ukujabula emahhovisi e-ExxonMobil, e-Chevron namanye, ukuvula izinkambu ezintsha zokuthuthukiswa, ukunwetshwa kokunciphisa imingcele, ukucinga imithombo emisha kawoyela. Okunye okwenzekayo ukuthi - ngiqonde ukuthi, lokhu kusho ukuphela kwempilo yomuntu ehleliwe emhlabeni. Asikhulumi ngento encane. Sinefasitela elincane lapho izinkinga ezinzima zokushisisa isimo sezulu zingasingathwa khona. Njengoba uvala lelo windi ngokwandayo, aba mancane amathuba okusinda empilweni yomuntu ehleliwe emhlabeni. Yilokho esibhekene nakho.
Njengoba ngishilo, ngezinye izikhathi okwenzekayo kumane nje kuyi-surreal. Awuwatholi neze amagama okuchaza. Thatha nje isonto, amasonto ambalwa edlule, kwavela imibiko emisha yesayensi maqondana nempumalanga yeMedithera, engekude kakhulu ne-Ukraine. Bathole ukuthi ukuqagela mayelana nokuzokwenzeka esifundeni kukude, kunokonga kakhulu. Manje ucwaningo olusha lubonisa ukuthi ekupheleni kwaleli khulu leminyaka, ukushisa endaweni esempumalanga yeMedithera kuzobe sekuphakeme ngokuphindwe kabili kunalokho okwakucatshangwa ngaphambili: 5 degrees Celsius, 10 degrees Fahrenheit. Kunjalo ezingeni - lifinyelela izinga lokusinda. Futhi-ke akugcini lapho.
Phakathi naleso sikhathi, izazi zesimo sezulu zakwa-Israel, ezisebenza kahle kakhulu, zathola ukuthi ukuqagela kwazo ukukhuphuka kwezinga lolwandle kwakukude. Zazinzima ngokwanele, kodwa kuvela ukuthi zazikude nokunemba. Kuzoba kubi kakhulu kunalokho. Babikezela phakathi nekhulu leminyaka ukuthi kuyoba imitha yokuphakama kolwandle; ekupheleni kwekhulu leminyaka, mhlawumbe amamitha amabili kuya kwamabili nengxenye. Imiphumela ayichazeki. Uma ucabanga ngalokho kulawa mazwe amabili - amazwe akhona, i-Egypt, i-Israel, i-Lebanon,โayikwazi nokukuchaza. Okwamanje, kwenzekani? I-Israel kanye neLebanon baxabana ngokuthi ubani ozoba nelungelo lokuphatha coup de grace, ngokwezwi nezwi. Baxabana ngokuthi ubani ozolawula izinsiza zikaphethiloli emngceleni wabo wasolwandle - ngakho-ke, ngamanye amazwi, ozothola ithuba lokubhubhisa la mazwe womabili ngenkathi ecwila ngaphansi kwamanzi. Yilokho okwenzeka phambi kwamehlo ethu. Ezinye izindawo zomhlaba, futhi.
Ukubuyela e-Ukraine, lapho impi iqhubeka isikhathi eside, iwindi livaleka kakhulu. Siqhubekela ekukhuliseni ukukhiqizwa kukaphethiloli, lapho kufanele sinciphise, siqede ngokushesha. Yilesi simo esibhekene naso. Khonamanjalo, ukubuyela e-Ukraine, e-United States naseBrithani, belandela ngokulalela, bagcina isimiso sokuthi impi kufanele iqhubeke nokwenza buthaka kakhulu iRussia - okusho ukuthi akukho zivumelwano zokuxoxisana, nayo yonke imiphumela elandelayo. Yilokho okufanele kube phezulu kakhulu emiqondweni yethu, hhayi nje kuphela ngenxa yokubaluleka kwayo, kodwa ngenxa yokuthi, kuzo zonke izici ezihilelekile kule ndaba eyinkimbinkimbi, yilokho esingaba nomthelela. Asikwazi ukuthonya okwenzeka e-Kremlin. Singathonya okwenzeka e-United States. Nakulokhu, lokho kufanele kube phezulu kakhulu ezingqondweni zethu.
JUAN GONZรLEZ: Vijay Prashad, bengifuna ukukubuza, ngokwemibandela - hhayi kuphela ngokwempi yase-Ukraine, kodwa incwadi yakho ikhuluma ngokungenelela kwe-U.S. - incwadi yakho entsha, ukungenelela kwe-U.S. emhlabeni wonke, Afghanistan, Syria. Ungakhuluma ngakho - lapha sinesimo lapho ngaphansi - cishe izinyanga eziyisithupha ngemuva kokuphuma kwe-US e-Afghanistan, futhi okuthiwa ukuphela kwezimpi zethu zaphakade, manje sesingene ekuxhasweni nasekuxhaseni ngezimali enye futhi ingxabano enyakazayo. Umhlaba. Iningi labantu baseMelika aliboni ukuthi iningi lale mali yosizo izothenga kuphela izikhali embonini yezempi yase-US. Futhi-ke, sekuseduze ukuthi sibe nengxabano elandelayo: neChina. Khuluma ngalesi simo sengqondo sempi yaphakade yase-United States kanye nomthelela wePentagon ekutheni abezindaba baveza kanjani eziningi zalezi zingxabano.
VIJAY PRASHAD: Juan, ake sibheke izinombolo ezithile kuqala. Ngonyaka odlule, isibalo sasiwukuthi amandla omhlaba achitha ama-dollar ayizigidi eziyizinkulungwane ezimbili - lokho nge-T - ezikhalini. I-United States, ngokwayo, isebenzisa cishe amadola ayizigidi eziyizinkulungwane eziyisigidi, uma ungeza imali kusabelomali soMnyango Wezamandla ngezikhali zenuzi nokunye. Amadola ayizigidi eziyizinkulungwane ezimbili, amaRandi ayizigidi eziyizinkulungwane ezimbili emhlabeni jikelele. Phakathi naleso sikhathi, isabelomali esiphelele seNhlangano Yezizwe Ezihlangene singamaRandi ayizigidi eziyizinkulungwane ezingu-2 - lokho nge-B. Sichitha izigidigidi zamadola ezikhalini kanye nezigidigidi eziphansi kuphela ekwakheni ukuthula. Kuyamangaza. Ngisho ukuthi, ngifuna abantu abaningi bazi ngalezi zinombolo. Kunomkhuba wokufudumala.
Bheka, awukwazi ukukhipha i-Ukraine, uyiphakamise emhlabeni futhi uyibeke e-Iowa. I-Ukraine kuzofanele ihlale eduze kweRussia. Kuzofanele aphile lapho. Yilapho ekhona. Abantu base-Ukraine nabaseRussia kufanele beze esivumelwaneni esithile. Uyazi, uhlobo lwendlela lapho inkulumo-ze kule mpi iye yashesha ngayo, ibuyela emuva ku-2014, ukuthi ukusheshisa okuzwakalayo kuyinto ngisho nabase-Ukraine abanqaba lapho uVolodymyr Zelensky efika phambi kwabo okhethweni, ngoba, ngemuva kwakho konke, uMnu Zelensky. weza ehhovisi efunga ukwenza isivumelwano sokuthula namaRussia, ngoba ngisho uyaqaphela Ukraine has ukuhlala eduze Russia.
Kodwa i-United States yabona i-Ukraine njengohlobo lwesipikili esixegayo lapho bebeka khona izikhali zabo, izigidigidi zamaRandi ezikhali, okungaphezulu kakhulu kwesabelomali sonyaka seNhlangano Yezizwe Ezihlangene, ukuze kuqhume iRussia. Futhi-ke, akuyona nje indaba ye-Ukraine neRussia ekuqondeni okuthile ngoba kufanele bahlale eduze komunye nomunye. Futhi njengoba uNowam esho, ngo-Ephreli walo nyaka, babe nesivumelwano sesikhashana, esasibukeka njengeMinsk II, kodwa iNtshonalanga yathi cha. Iphuzu, njengoba uNobhala Wezokuvikela waseMelika uLloyd Austin eshilo, ukwenza buthaka iRussia. Uyabona, umbuzo akuyona i-Ukraine neRussia ngokwayo. Futhi yi-United States neRussia.
Ngakho-ke, lapho i-United States ihoxa ku-Intermediate-[Range Nuclear Forces] Treaty ngo-2019, lokho kwaba isiphetho, ngokuyisisekelo, sezivumelwano eziningi zokulawula izikhali phakathi kwe-United States neRussia. Eqinisweni, kusukela ngo-2019, siphila ngaphandle kwelungiselelo lesiqinisekiso sokuvikeleka phakathi kwala mazwe amakhulu enuzi, i-United States ne-Russia. Akumangalisi ukuthi i-Bulletin of Atomic Scientists ilethe Iwashi Losuku Lwenhlekelele phakathi kwamasekhondi angu-100 phakathi kwamabili. Uyazi, kwaqala ngemizuzu eyisikhombisa kuze kube phakathi kwamabili; manje sisemizuzwana eyi-100. Futhi isizathu i-Bulletin of Atomic Scientists esinikeza ngalokhu ukuhoxiswa okuhlangene okwenziwa yi-United States kuwo wonke ukwakheka kokulawulwa kwezikhali neRussia ikakhulukazi.
Ngakho-ke, kufanele kube nengcindezi kubaphathi beBiden ukuthi bangagcini nje ngokuhlehla futhi bavumele uZelensky noPutin ukuthi bakhulume, ukuze babavumele ukuthi babe nohlobo oluthile lwesivumelwano sokuthula okusho ukuthi, uyazi, ngesithunzi sazo zonke izinhlangothi, kodwa futhi ne-United States. udinga ukubuyela etafuleni namaRussia futhi akhulume nawo. Uyazi, uma i-United States ingakhuluma namaSaudis, empeleni, ihlangana namaSaudis, kungani ingakwazi ukukhuluma namaRussia? Kuyahlekisa ukusho ukuthi, uyazi, amaRussia ngeke - akuwona umlingani omuhle, ngeke aphile ngezivumelwano nokunye. Bheka ukuthi ubani okhulumayo. I-United States iyizwe elashiya ngokungahambisani nesivumelwano senuzi sase-Iran - hhayi ama-Irani, kwakuyi-United States. Kuyi-rum encane manje ukusho ukuthi, kahle, amaRussia awawona umlingani othembekile wokuxoxisana. Okungenani izame. Uyazi, ngenxa kaNkulunkulu, ngenxa yesintu, sidinga la mandla amakhulu anamandla amaningi omlilo ephaketheni lawo ukuze akhulume ngomunye nomunye. Awukwazi ukuphendukela kuNhlangano Yezizwe bese uthi, โIngabe kukhona ozokwenza?โ Njengoba ngishilo, isabelomali se-U.N. siyizigidi eziyizinkulungwane ezintathu zamaRandi. Kufanele uqinise ukwakhiwa kokuthula emhlabeni futhi wenze buthaka ukufudumala. Lokho kufanele kube yingxenye yokuzibophezela kwabantu abazwelayo emhlabeni wonke, kungaba seRussia, e-Ukraine, e-United States, e-United Kingdom.
AMY U-GOODMAN: Nobabili nikhuluma ngokuvumela iRussia ne-Ukraine ukuthi zixoxisane, kodwa umuntu ukwenza kanjani lokho? Futhi khuluma ngalokho i-US engayenza manje, uSolwazi Chomsky.
NOAM I-CHOMSKY: Okungenziwa yi-U.S. ukuyeka ukwenza okuthile ukuze kuvinjelwe izingxoxo. Isikhathi eside - asikho isikhathi sokubuyekeza irekhodi, kodwa isikhundla se-United States bekuwukuzama ukubukela phansi amathuba ezingxoxo.
AMY U-GOODMAN: USolwazi Noam Chomsky, umphikisi wezepolitiki owaziwa umhlaba wonke kanye nesazi sezilimi, kanye noVijay Prashad, umqondisi we-Tricontinental: Institute for Social Research. Babhale ngokuhlanganyela incwadi entsha, Ukuhoxiswa: I-Iraq, i-Libya, i-Afghanistan, kanye ne-Fragility of US Power. UNoam Chomsky ubekhuluma nathi eseBrazil. Sizodlala enye inhlolokhono yabo ngokuhamba kwesikhathi kuleli sonto.
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