Abesifazane I-Creando yinhlangano elwela amalungelo abesifazane ebilokhu ibhekene ne-patriarchalism yomphakathi waseBolivia kusukela ngeminyaka yawo-1980. Sikhulume nomunye wabasunguli, uMaria Galindo, endaweni yokudlela yehhotela labo elincane nesikhungo samasiko enhloko-dolobha iLa Paz, kuyilapho iMujeres. Isiteshi somsakazo se-Creando, sisakaza sikwelinye igumbi, sidlala esipikheni ngemuva.
Lapho uMaria esijoyina weza nomunye waseNyakatho Melika, uPhillip Berryman, uthisha nomhumushi ochwepheshe, echaza ukuthi njengoba naye ayecele ukuba nengxoxo, uzophendula imibuzo yethu ndawonye.
Sharyl Green: Umbuzo wokuqala omkhulu umayelana nokuphatha kuka-Evo Morales: zisingathwa kanjani izinkinga zabesifazane? Ingabe ikhona intuthuko eyenziwayo? Iphephandaba lanamuhla lithi u-11% wezindaba ezikumthethosisekelo ezaphasiswa eminyakeni emithathu eyedlule sezifakwe emithethweni manjeโlokhu kuzithinta kanjani izindaba zabesifazane? Yebo, i-caveat ukuthi zonke izindaba ziyizindaba zabesifazane. Kodwa udaba lokukhishwa kwezisu, isibonelo, nezinye izinto ozibona zithinta ngqo inhlalakahle yabesifazane.
UMaria Galindo: Yebo, ngokujwayelekile mayelana no-Evo Morales, kuyinkimbinkimbi kakhulu; ngaphakathi, u-Evo Morales uye waba nohlobo lokuziphendukela kwemvelo. U-Evo Morales manje akayena u-Evo Morales wasekuqaleni. Ekuqaleni kwakukhona ithemba elikhulu, ukulindela okukhulu komphakathi, futhi ngempela ubuhlobo obuqinile kakhulu phakathi kwe-MAS nohulumeni. Kulo nyaka wesithupha ithuthuke hhayi ngezindlela ezinhle kodwa ngezindlela ezingezinhle. Isibonelo, u-Evo Morales uthi, ngisho nohulumeni wakhe, "kudingeka sibe nokulawula okukhulu kakhulu ezinhlanganweni zezenhlalakahle, ukuze sihlale emandleni. Ukuze sikhulise lokhu kulawulwa komphakathi kufanele sithenge izinhloko zalezi zinhlangano zomphakathi." Ngakho-ke izinhloko zezinhlangano zezenhlalakahle seziphethwe uhulumeni. Kodwa hhayi izisekelo. Kusho ukuthi inhloko yezinhlangano zezenhlalakahle ithathe imali kuhulumeni, namaphrojekthi, kodwa akusho ukuba khona kwangempela kwezinhlangano zezenhlalakahle, nemibuzo yazo. Kufana nenkundla yemidlalo yaseshashalazini. Lapha sinabantu esinabo, kodwa abangani baka-Evo Morales nje, nabangane abakhona ngoba banezinzuzo ezithile. Ngakho-ke kusho ukuntuleka okukhulu kakhulu koguquko lwangempela lwezenhlalo, ngoba azisebenzi ezinkingeni zekhonkrithi zanoma iyiphi ingxenye yomphakathi, basebenza nje ukuze wonke umuntu acabange futhi wonke umuntu unomuzwa wokuthi u-Evo Morales ukuphela kwekhambi lawo wonke umuntu eBolivia. Ngakho sinenqubo ye "caudillizacion." Ungushintsho, uguquko nguye, uyikho konke, ungumvikeli, ngakho-ke kwenza ukwehla kwenqubo yezenhlalo nezepolitiki.
SG: Ngakho-ke kukhona i-hierarchyโฆ
MG: Hhayi kuphela ubuholi, kodwa ngizokusho ngeSpanishi: kuyinqubo ye-caudillizacion [Ukwenziwa "kwe-caudillo," noma umholi onothando]. Isibalo sika-Evo Morales siyisikhungo sakho konke. Ngempela kuyiphutha elikhulu kakhulu. Kwabesifazane kuyaphikisana kakhulu futhi kufihlwe kahle kakhulu. Kungani? Umthetho wokuqala, owawubaluleke kakhulu, kwakuyinkokhelo yemali, "i-bono Juana Asurdo" (eqanjwe ngeqhawekazi lokuvukela umbuso ngokumelene neSpain ngekhulu le-19.) Kuyinkokhelo yawo wonke umuntu wesifazane onomntwana-njengabanye. uhulumeni wobuFascist wenza. Akukuningi kangako: inkulungwane, namakhulu ayisishiyagalombili bolivianos ($261 US dollar.) Awukwazi ukwenza lutho ngalokho. Kodwa futhi, elithi "abesifazane" lisho "izingane." Abesifazane abampofu kakhulu eBoliviaโmhlawumbe bangadinga leyo mali. Kodwa ukuze uthole leyo mali kumele uye kudokotela, udokotela akunike iphepha elishoyo ukuthi uzoba nomntwana, bese kufanele uye ebhange ukuze uthole imali kuhulumeni. Kodwa abesifazane abampofu kakhulu abanawo umazisi wesakhamuzi saseBolivia abangaya ebhange. Ngakho-ke akunangqondo ngempela. Futhi kufana nomfanekiso wokucabanga kwalo hulumeni.
Ngakolunye uhlangothi, kusukela ngeminyaka yamashumi ayisishiyagalolunye ngenxa yenqubomgomo yeNhlangano Yezizwe kukhona uhlobo lwesilinganiso sabesifazane kuwo wonke amaqembu ezombusazwe. Kuyinqubomgomo yenkululeko, hhayi inqubomgomo yezenhlalakahle, le nqubomgomo "yokulingana." Ngakho-ke iqembu ngalinye linephesenti labesifazane, futhi ingxenye ethile yabesifazane ikhethwa njengamasekela namasenenja. Lokhu kwaqala eminyakeni yamashumi ayisishiyagalolunye, futhi ikopishwa kulo lonke elaseLatin America, akusona isiBolivia ekuqaleni. Inhlangano yezenhlalakahle yabesifazane lapha ayikaze icele ukuthola ukumelwa ephalamende. Kwavela ku-UN. Kusukela ngeminyaka yamashumi ayisishiyagalolunye, amaqembu, nawo akwesokudla, athi, "Kulungile, singamanene, sizowuthola lo mthetho."
Ngakho-ke kusukela ngeminyaka yamashumi ayisishiyagalolunye unenani eliphansi labesifazane ephalamende, abesifazane abakhethwa ukumela iqembu. Hhayi ukumela umphakathi noma abesifazane emphakathini. Futhi leli phesenti labesifazane alisho neze izwi kubantu besifazane. Basho izwi lesifazane lephathi, elihluke kakhulu ngempela. Kuyinto eyenzeka kuyo yonke ipolitiki yaseLatin America. U-Evo Morales uthathe umqondo ofanayo ojwayelekile futhi wawufaka kunqubomgomo yakhe. Manje usunamaphesenti aphezulu abesifazane, ngicabanga ukuthi cishe bangamaphesenti angamashumi amane, angiqiniseki kangako, angikunaki kakhulu lokho. Futhi banomgomo ofanayo wongqongqoshe bekhabhinethi namajaji. Kodwa ngemithetho efanayo: abesifazane beqembu lethu bazokwenza esikufunayo. Abesifazane abanomthwalo wemfanelo wezempilo, ezintweni eziningi, empeleni abazange babenzele lutho abesifazane. Ngoba kwanele ukuba khona futhi uthi, "Ngilapha, ngiyizwi labesifazane."
Ngakho bakhetha ngokucophelela abesifazane ukuze bagweme labo besifazane abayingozi, abakhulumela phezulu, abazicabangela bona. Kunonya oluningi olubhekiswe kwabesifazane abangamavukela-mbuso emikhankasweni yezenhlalo manje eBolivia. Akuwona umthwalo ka-Evo Morales, yindlela okuyiyo ngalesi sikhathi.
Ngakho iphuzu lakho ngokukhipha isisuโkufana nokuhamba nebhasi ukuya enyangeni. Sikude kakhulu kulelophuzu. Ngibe nezingxoxo nabo bonke abesifazane kwikhabhinethi [uMaria unohlelo oluvamile lomsakazo olusakazwa eMujeres Creando], nazo zonke izinhloko zezinhlangano zabesifazane ezihambisana no-Evo Morales, kanye no-Bartolina Sisa (inhlangano eqanjwe ngeqhawekazi lama-Aymara ngeminyaka yawo-1700 elalilwa namaSpanishi), nayo yonke le minyaka. Ngiyababuza ngokuhushula isisu. Ngoba ukukhipha isisu kuyinkinga yobumpofu. Izintombi ezimhlophe, uma zinamakhulu amane amadola zingakhipha isisu. Abomdabu, abesifazane abasebasha abampofu abangenayo imali bahushula izisu ngengozi enkulu, futhi bayafa. Futhi banokwesaba okukhulu.
SG: Kukhona odokotela ezweni abazokhipha isisu ngendlela ephephile nge $400?
MG: Kungumbuzo wokuzenzisa nje. Ungaya emathuneni amakhulu e-La Paz, bese ufika wehlaโuzobona nhlangothi zombili zemitholampilo emincane yasemgwaqweni. Futhi niyazi, igumbi alikwazi ukuba umtholampilo. Ngakho ubona umtholampilo, umtholampilo, umtholampilo, umtholampiloโฆ"Uma unombuzo woza lapha, umtholampilo wabesifazane" Zonke lezo zindawo ngezokukhipha isisu. Wonke umuntu uyazi, akuyona imfihlo.
SG: Kanti uhulumeni akagxambukeli?
MG: Cha, cha, abenzi lutho. Kodwa ngokwesibonelo, ngoDisemba odlule kwakukhona owesifazane osemusha eSanta Cruz owabulala ingane yakheโingane yafika wayibulala. Waya ejele, ngenxa yokubulala. Wathi, "Ngidlwenguliwe. Ngangingayifuni le ngane." Amaphoyisa awenzi lutho. Odokotela benza imali, hhayi kangako, kodwa benza imali. Kodwa uma owesifazane eyedwa, esengozini kakhulu, njengaleyo ntombazane, khona-ke uya ejele. Kuyindaba yokuzenzisa. Kodwa akekho umuntu wesifazane walezi zinhlangano zomphakathi zomdabu ozimisele ukukhuluma kahle ngelungelo-hhayi lelungelo lami, lokulwela abesifazane-lelungelo lalawo mantombazane ezweni ukuthi azikhethele. Ngakho abakakulungeliโngibuze wonke umuntu wesifazane ephalamende mayelana nokuhushula isisu. Bonke bamelene nokuhushulwa kwezisu, bonke. Akekho noyedwa owesifazane othi, "Kulungile, banelungelo." Kufanele sikulwele lokhu okuphathekayo kakhulu.
SG: Futhi mhlawumbe iningi labo linothile emndenini wabo owandisiwe noma othile abamaziyoโฆ
MG: Yebo, impela, impelaโฆngoba ukukhipha isisu e-Bolivia kuyinkinga enkulu, akuyona inkinga yomuntu ngamunye yentombazane eyodwa lapho. Ngoba awunayo imfundo yocansi emthethweni nasezikoleni. Unohlobo oluthile lwesiko lobudoda kwezocansi, okusho ukuthi wonke umfana ufuna ukukhombisa amandla akhe entombazaneni. Ngakho-ke kuyinkinga enkulu ngempela. Futhi ubona abesifazane abaningi abasebancane kakhulu abanezingane, futhi abangenababa. Emsakazweni wethu lapha senza uhlu lobaba abangazikhokheli izingane zabo, nangempela kube yimpumelelo enkulu. Sisakaza igama labo, iminyaka yabo, nendawo abasebenza kuyo. Kahlanu ngosuku olulodwa, futhi akekho owesifazane okufanele akukhokhele lokho. Futhi kuyathakazelisa kakhulu ngoba akusiyo eyalabo amagama abo afundwayo kuphela, kodwa kuwumyalezo oya kuwo wonke umphakathi.
SG: Abesifazane I-Creando-ukuxhumana kuhulumeni, ithonya. Unezindima ezimbili laphaโmhlawumbe zihlanganisiweโuyintatheli futhi uyilungu lalo mphakathi. Kuyini ukuxhumana kwabaphathi, ubudlelwano, ukuvuma kwe-Mujeres I-Creando?
MG: Ukuvuma akunangqondo. Kodwa ngicabanga ukuthi thina, Mujeres Creando, sibe nethonya elikhulu emphakathini, ngoba sikhulumela phezulu kakhulu. Futhi asigcini nje ngokukhuluma, senza nezinto. Ngakho sinethonya elinamandla, ngizwa yonke indawo, ngaso sonke isikhathi. Lo hulumeni we-Evo Morales wenza sengathi asikho, asikho lapha, asenzi lutho. Kodwa akusho lutho, ngoba asigxilile embonweni wokuthi ukuphela kwenqubomgomo ephumelele ubudlelwano nohulumeni. Siye sahlaziya lokhu iminyaka eminingi, eminingi: yini esiyifunayo kuhulumeni? Asifuni lutho oluvela kuhulumeni. Akuyona imithetho kuphelaโimithetho ayishintshi lutho. Izinhlangano eziningi zomphakathi eBolivia zinomqondo wokuthi, "Sithola umthetho, sithola ushintsho esimweni." Kodwa asiceli mthetho, asiceli ukuba sephalamende, asiceli ukuthola imali kuhulumeni, kodwa sithatha izikhundla kuyo yonke imigomo kahulumeni.
Asikho ku-Fantasy Island yethu, kodwa asicabangi ukuthi kufanele siqashelwe kuhulumeni. Isibonelo, ngenkathi inqubo yomthethosisekelo eminyakeni emine noma emihlanu edlule iqhubeka eBolivia senza ithiyori yezenhlalo eyathakazelisa kakhulu. Sithe, "Asifuni ukulingana phakathi kwabesilisa nabesifazane, lokhu akuwona umbono wethu. Sifuna 'i-despatriarcalizacion' yomphakathi." Angikwazi ukukusho ngesiNgisi ngoba yigama esalisungula (de-patriarchalization). Futhi manje yonke imibhalo evela kuhulumeni ephathelene nabesifazane ithi "despatriarcalizacion." Balisusile izwi kithi. Kuwubufakazi bethonya lethu elikhulu ezingqondweni zabo, kodwa akulona iqiniso ngoba, isibonelo, abalokothi basicele ukuthi sixoxe ngokuthi kusho ukuthini lokhu "depatriarcalizacion". Ubuhlobo obuyinkimbinkimbi.
SG: Kungumbuzo omkhulu e-United States, futhi, kulezi zinsuku. Mningi umnyakazo ngaphandle kukahulumeni, lapho inhloso kungekona ukusebenzela iqembu, kuzanywa ukuthi kukhethwe abantu. Isikhathi esijabulisayo: uzosebenza ngaphandle noma uzozama ukufaka abantu ngaphakathi? Ngakho abantu benza ukukhetha okuthakazelisa kakhulu. Kuzwakala sengathi ukukhetha kwakho kube ukusebenza ngaphandle nokuba nethonya elibanzi, hhayi nje kwabesifazane kuphela kodwa nomphakathi uwonke, ukwenza abantu bacabange ngokucacile noma ngokujulile, noma babheke amaphethini abo ngendlela entsha. .
MG: Yebo, akukhona ukuthi sicabanga ukuthi sizotshela abantu ukuthi liyini iqiniso, lokho kubaluleke kakhulu. Uveze kahle kakhulu iphuzu. Kithina, abesifazane "bayizikhonzi zezombangazwe" (abalingiswa.) Ngakho-ke sisebenza ngale ndlela, sibheka abesifazane njengezihloko zezombusazwe, hhayi "abazuzi," "ubungozi," "O, abesifazane abampofu!" izinto ezinjalo. Asigcini ngokukhuluma, senza. Isibonelo sinezinhlelo ezincane ezinendlela yokusebenza ethakazelisa kakhulu, izinhlelo ezisebenzayo, kanye nezinhlelo ezenzelwe abantu. Sinohlelo olujabulisa kakhulu lokuhlukunyezwa kwabesifazane olusebenza kakhulu, futhi sisebenza ngayo yonke indlela futhi sinohlelo lomama olumayelana nokucabanga ngokuba ngumama ngenye indlela. Bobabili banethonya elikhulu emphakathini, kodwa asibatholi abantu besifazane abaningi ngoba sisebenza ngezinga elincane. Kodwa ziyizibonelo-asilungele ukukhuluma kuphela, sikulungele ukwenza.
Lowo umehluko omkhulu, ngoba eBolivia uthola ongqondongqondo abaningi, abanye abangcono, abanye abalungile kangako, abanekhono ekucabangeni okujulile, futhi bayakhuluma, futhi, kodwa abenzi lutho ngaphandle kokukhuluma nje. Sicabanga ukuthi leli iphutha elikhulu. Uneminyaka eminingi kangaka yokucabanga kwezepolitiki yaseBolivia lapho ungathola khona abavukuzi, ungathola abomdabu, ungathola abantu abasha, futhi ungalokothi uthole abesifazane. Zonke izinhlangano zomphakathi zinobuso obufana nobudoda, futhi abantu besifazane bathathwa njengengxenye yomphakathi esengozini, kufanele sivikele abantu besifazane, sivikele abesifazane njengomama, futhi lowo umbono wombuso. Futhi lowo mbono awukashintshi. Siseqophelweni elifanayo njengoba sasikhona.
UPhillip Berryman: Ngiyayiqonda ingxabano yakho ngabesifazane kwezepolitiki. Uyazibona yini izimpawu zokuthi abesifazane bagqashule emisebenzini yesintu kwezinye izindawo njengamabhizinisi?
MG: Ngicabanga ukuthi kunokudideka okukhulu kulokho ngokujwayelekile, hhayi eBolivia kuphela. Ngokwesibonelo, lapha eBolivia unabesifazane abasebuthweni lezempi. Ingabe kuwubufakazi bokuvukela? Ingabe kuwubufakazi bento esiyizuzile? Singagubha? Unabesifazane abasebenza, kodwa kuziphi izimo?
SG: Ngolunye usuku nje kwakunamaphoyisa amaningi eduze kwenhloko-dolobha, futhi kwakukhona abesifazane. Ngenzeka ukuthi ngibheke phansi futhi iphoyisa lesifazane laligqoke amabhuzu aqondile anezithende eziphakeme, futhi ngacabanga, "Angakwenza kanjani lokho okungase kudingeke akwenze ngezithende eziphakeme?" Kwangihlaba umxhwele kakhulu.
MG: Kuyaxaka, lelo gama. Eziningi zalezo zibonelo kunokuningi okungaqondakali. Akusho ukunqoba emphakathini waseBolivia ukuthi abesifazane baye empini. Amasosha ahlukumeza kakhulu abafana [ababuthiwe.] Abaningi bafa. Ngaleso sikhathi kwakunabathile ababecabanga ukuthi kwakuyoba nokwenzeka ukuthi benqabe inkonzo yezempi. Ngakho uhulumeni wathi, "Kulungile, kubafana kuyisibopho, abakwazi ukukhetha. Kodwa abesifazane bangajoyina, futhi bangakhetha." Nabesifazane bema kulayini kusukela ngehora lesihlanu ekuseni ukuze bangene empini. Babengenza noma yikuphi ukuzidela ukuze bangene. Ngani? Kuningi ukuphikisana. I-Neoliberalism kanye nenkululeko e-Latin America ithi unelungelo. Kufanele ulwele amalungelo akho, kodwa unawoโuyalingana. Manje, emhlabeni wonke, sinenqwaba yabesifazane abanamandla amaningi. Kusho ukuthini? Kungumbuzo omkhulu kithina njengabantu besifazane, futhi, ngoba akekho owesifazane ophethe, eBolivia, eJalimane, nanoma yikuphi, okhona ngenxa yokucabanga kwabesifazane. Ukhona ngenxa yokucabanga kokhokho.
Anginaso intshisekelo ku-Cristina Kirchner noma ku-Merkel, nginentshisekelo ngobuningi. Ngobuningi babesifazane kukhona umfutho wokuthola indawo yamadoda, futhi bakulungele ukukhokha intela ukuze bathole izindinganiso zamadoda njengokuncintisana, ukusebenzisa amandla, ukusetshenziswa kobudlova. Kunenqwaba yabesifazane abacabanga kanjalo. Ngakho lapha eBolivia kunabesifazane abafuna ukuba amaphoyisa. Kodwa iphesenti eliphezulu kakhulu lodlame olubhekiswe kwabesifazane empilweni yangasese livela emaphoyiseni. Bese ubona lesi sihlaya okhulume ngaso. Bafika lapho, kodwa babeโฆabesifazane. Sikuphi? Kodwa ngakolunye uhlangothi, ukuphendula umbuzo wakho [PB's] ungabona inqwaba yokuvukela emphakathini kwabantu besifazane. Isibonelo, abesifazane abaningi bakulungele ukugxeka ubudlova, futhi lesi isenzo sokuvukela. Baningi abesifazane abasenyuvesi. Bengifundisa lapha enyuvesi yomphakathi. Amaphesenti angu-50 kuyo yonke imikhakha ngabesifazane. Ayikho insimu lapho amadoda angasho khona ukuthi, "Yinsimu yethu lena." Kodwa emasimini abesifazane awuwatholi amadoda. Lokhu kuvukela akukho ohlangothini lokuba yindoda, ukuba yindoda.
SG: Ngakho-ke uma ubheka isibonelo emfundweni yobuntwana, noma ukukhula komuntu, noma umlando wabesifazane, awekho amadoda?
MG: Kufanele ngikubonise okuthile: indaba yama-Ekeko. Lokhu kuyinkomba yalokho okwenzekayo ngabesifazane emphakathini waseBolivia manje. Lokhu kudalwe yiciko elincane elisemhlanganweni wethu. Uneminyaka engamashumi amabili ubudala. Ngineminyaka engamashumi amane nesikhombisa, futhi sisebenza ndawonye. Ingabe uyayazi indaba ka-Ekeko? Ngizokuchaza. U-Ekeko ungunkulunkulu wenala yama-Andean. Yindoda encane, emfishane ethwala yonke into emhlane. Ukudla, izimoto, izinto zikagesi, yonke into ongase ufune ukuba nayo. Ubuyela emuva emakhulwini eminyaka, okungenani kusukela ekupheleni kwawo-1700. Uma uhlonipha isithombe sika-Ekeko, uyoba nakho konke okufunayo ekhaya lakho. Kuyacaca ukuthi ubunkulunkulu bukababa oletha konke okudingayo, okungamanga kakhulu. Kunesithombe sika-Ekeko endaweni ekhethekile ekhaya, futhi njalo ngoLwesihlanu owesifazane wekhaya kufanele amnike ugwayi. Kumele ayifake emlonyeni wesithombe asikhanyise. Futhi inophawu oluvusa inkanuko-uthola ama-Ekeko amaningi anomthondo oqhanyelwe. Ngakho uzokunika konke, inhlalakahle kanye nenjabulo. Emakhaya amaningi uthola le ndoda encane isendaweni engcono kakhulu.
Ngakho senza owesifazane esikhundleni sakhe. [Usibonisa isithombe esincane, esingaba amayintshi ayisikhombisa ubude namasentimitha ayisikhombisa ukuphakama. Ngowesifazane othwele inyanda engangaye emahlombe akhe, kanti ngemuva kwakhe kunomfanekiso wendoda ethe thuthu, ilele, iphethe ibhodlela esandleni.] Esikhundleni sakhe, nguyena. Kuleso sikhwama asithwele emahlombe unenhliziyo engonakele lutho. Futhi unakho konke: indlu, nomculo, nokudla-konke okudingayo. Futhi unamaphiko, ngoba ufuna inkululeko. Unezincwadi, ngoba ufuna ukufunda. Uma ufunda esikoleni sasebusuku uzobona abantu besifazane abaningi lapho, ngoba baningi abesifazane kwadingeka bayeke isikole, kodwa manje bafuna ukufunda. Futhi unepotimende, ngoba uyahamba. Lona omunye umuzwa wokuhlubuka wabesifazane abaningi: "Ngikulungele ukukushiya." Futhi ipotimende libhalwe ukuthi, kulo kunamaphupho, amathemba, ukuvukela, nenjabulo. Futhi ushiya unkulunkulu omncane u-Ekekoโedakiwe, evilapha, eyindoda. Nencwadi ayishiyela yona ithi, "I-Ekeka bekuyimi njalo."
Sithengisa lezi endaweni yethu emakethe. Ukuthengisa lezi kuyisenzo sepolitiki. Sikhuluma nabesifazane, futhi bahleka ngempela. Wonke umuntu wesifazane uyakuqonda, owesifazane odayisa isinkwa, owesifazane osehhovisi, nowesifazane osephalamende.
SG: Ingabe athengisa kahle?
MG: Yebo. Akushibhile kangako, ngoba sifuna intombazane ebenzayo ibe nemali kulokhu. Okubaluleke kakhulu ukuthi sifuna ukungena emcabangweni odumile. Inendawo enhliziyweni yabantu.
SG: Futhi kuthiwani ngalo omunye umfanekiso wendoda ebelethe ingane emhlane nesikhwama sokuthenga kwesinye isandla nomshanelo kwesinye?
MG: Le ndoda ngu-Evo Morales. Uthwele izinyane emhlane okomuntu wesifazane wendabuko. Ayikho indoda ethwala ingane ngale ndlela, kuyobe kuphambene nesithunzi sayo. Futhi ulungele ukuhlanza indlu futhi aye emakethe. Lona kwakuyindoda ebaluleke kakhulu yenguquko yaseBolivia (okungeyona inguquko, ngempela.) Sathengisa ngempela lezi kwangathi ziyisinkwa. Manje akusenani ngoba akasathandwa kakhulu. Emuva lapho esephezulu ngaya odabeni olukhulu lwezepolitiki ngamnika lona njengesipho. Wayithatha wayijikijela omunye wonogada bakhe. Akazange ayithathe ahleke, wayenobutha, kwakumnyanyisa. Lokho kwakuwuphawu! Ngazibuza, โKungani engakakulungeli ukuhleka nathi, futhi athi, โKungani? noma 'Kuyathakazelisa!' noma 'Ngiyabonga kakhulu,' noma yini."
Lesi isimo sokuhlubuka kwabesifazane. Uma ungaqondi ungathi, โAwu laba besifazane bathi wonke umuntu wesilisa udakiweโฆโ kodwa kungaphezu kwalokho, kuwuphawu.
SG: Imayelana nabesifazane...
MG: Yebo. Ngaphambi kokuza lapha bengixoxisana nowesifazane. Ufuna ukwehlukana nendoda yakhe. Lapho eneminyaka eyishumi nane ilungu lomndeni wakubo lamnika njengesipho endodeni yezempi eyayineminyaka engamashumi amabili nesishiyagalombili. Wayenengane ayedinga umuntu ozoyinakekela. Ngakho wahamba nendoda yezempi futhi waba nayo, emehlweni ami esimweni sobugqila. Kodwa emehlweni omphakathi njengomfazi. Wayekhala emakethe, kwabuza owesifazane, "Ukhalelani?" Lapho echaza owesifazane wathi, "Hamba kulaba besifazane." [I. e. Mujeres Creando.]
SG: Uneminyaka emingaki manje?
MG: Uphakathi kwamashumi amahlanu namashumi ayisithupha. Unezingane ezine nendoda yezempi, impilo yakhe yonke icabanga ukuthi, "Ngizomshiya." Ungasho ukuthi lezo zindaba azikwazi ukuba yiqiniso manje, kodwa manje ziseyiqiniso. Akuzona zonke izindaba zethu. Akuyona indaba yami leyo. Kodwa thina, njengabesifazane, sisendaweni efanayo yomlando nezenhlalo njengalowo wesifazane. Uma simthatha njengodade, wayesebugqilini, noma esebugqilini.
Bengisebenza kakhulu ngokudayisa ngomzimba, futhi ngiyayazi ngempela leyo nkinga, sengenze izinto eziningi ngalowo mkhathi. E-Bolivia, wonke umuntu odayisa ngomzimba kufanele abhaliswe ngokusemthethweni. Lokho kusho ukuthi kufanele anikeze igama lakhe langempela, ikheli lakhe, indawo asebenza kuyo njengonondindwa, futhi bathathe isithombe benze incwadi. Kufanele ube naleyo dokhumenti evela kumnyango wezempilo ukuze usebenze njengomqwayizi. Futhi, kufanele uye kudokotela kanye ngesonto, ukuze nje uhlolwe esithweni sakho sangasese. Lokho nje. Uma unenkinga emehlweni akho noma kuphi lapho kungenandaba khona, bavele bakuhlole isitho sakho sangasese. Futhi uthola iphepha elithi 'kuvunyelwe.' Banaka nje impilo yamadoda. Futhi lokhu kwenzeka manje, hhayi eminyakeni eyikhulu edlule noma amakhulu amabili eminyaka edlule.
Lesi [esikhomba isithombe esisodongeni] isithombe sesifebe sasekuqaleni kwawo-1900. Amaphoyisa athatha lezo zithombe zabo bonke abaqwayizi: imibono emibili, ingaphambili nephrofayili. Ngalezo zinsuku owesifazane kwakudingeka agqoke indwangu emnyama ekhanda ukuze abonise ukuthi uyisifebe. Amaphoyisa abenazo lezo zincwadi. Kusukela ngo-2000 amaphoyisa awazithathi izithombe, manje wumnyango wezempilo ohlola isitho sangasese sangasese ukuze uthi ungahamba nekhasimende.
Ngenze amakhulukhulu amasemina, amaphrojekthi, izincwadi, noma yini. Saqala inhlangano ezosebenzisana nabesifazane. Ngokubona kwethu konke kufanele kwenziwe ngowesifazane. Isibonelo owesifazane osesimweni sobugqila: uyena ofuna ukuphuma kulokho. Akumina othi kufanele wenze lokho. Kubaluleke kakhulu. Wonke umuntu wesifazane kufanele asho lokho afuna ukukwenza. Bathola kithi umngane, iqembu lepolitiki noma yini, kodwa ufanele azi.
I-PB: Ingabe uyazibona izimpawu zoshintsho ezimweni zengqondo zamadoda?
MG: Hhayi eBolivia. Angiluboni ushintsho emhlabeni wamadoda. Ngibona ushintsho oluningi kwezinye izingxenye zomhlaba wabesifazaneโngoba asisibo bonke, siyinkimbinkimbiโkodwa angiboni nhlobo ushintsho emhlabeni wamadoda. Umuntu usenkingeni ejulile. Abesifazane benza izinguquko futhi amadoda ahlala lapho futhi awakwazi ukushintsha. Isibonelo, kunemakethe enkulu kakhulu yokudayisa ngomzimba. Ubani oya kuleyo makethe? Ngingakubonisa izinsizwa namakhehla kakhulu usebenzisa leyo makethe. Ungabona abavukuzi nochwepheshe besebenzisa leyo makethe, kungumbuzo wentengo. Ungathola isifebe esishibhile nesibiza kakhulu. Imakethe yokudayisa ngomzimba iyakhula. Amadoda aya lapho ukuyothenga owesifazane. Angiluboni ushintsho lapho.
Kwenziwani ngamadoda? Emsakazweni wami nginabesifazane abakhuluma ngokuhlukunyezwa kwabesifazane. Ngivule indawo yokuthi amadoda akhulume ngokuhlukunyezwa kwabesifazane, kodwa akekho owesilisa ofuna ukuza. Amadoda afuna ukukhuluma ngenguquko, ngentengo kaphethiloli noma udizili, ngokumeleleka kwezombusazwe, noma umlando, kodwa abafuni ukukhuluma ngabo. Kunzima ukubacela bakhulume ngalokho, kufana necala, njengento engenanhlonipho.
I-PB: E-Colombia ngabona inkulumo-ze encane emelene nodlame lwasekhayaโumculi we-reggaeton noma into enjalo.
MG; Ungabona ukuthi eBolivia futhi, amadoda adumile akhokhelwayoโakusho lutho. Uhulumeni wenza le thiyetha ngemali evela kubambisene namazwe ngamazweโayikho imali evela esifundeni saseBolivia. Akucatshangelwa kahle, into nje esesitejiโkulula kakhulu ukuyisho. Uma ubona ukusetshenziswa kwabesifazane ezinkundleni zokuxhumanaโ kuyangigulisa. Yonke indawo, kukho konke, futhi akukho mingcele.
SG: Abesifazane abasejeleโsikhulume nowesifazane osebenza neziboshwa futhi safunda ukuthi abesifazane bangaba nezingane zabo ejele, ukuthi bangasebenza ukuze bathole imali, ukuthi bayazibusa. Uzibona kanjani izinhlelo zabesifazane abasemajele?
MG: Anginalo ulwazi olujulile ngamajele. Ngaqala uchungechunge lwezinhlelo zomsakazo njalo ezinsukwini eziyishumi nanhlanu ukusuka ejele. Saya lapho futhi abesifazane bazokhuluma. Kwakumnandi, saba nemvume yezinhlelo eziyishumi nambili, kodwa senza ezimbili kuphela. Kuyiqiniso, abesifazane bangaba nezingane lapho ejele. Izingane ziya esikoleni bese kuthi uma sekuphuma isikole zibuyele ejele. Kuya ngeminyaka yabo. Basebenza ejele, kodwa lezo akuzona izinhlelo ezihleliwe zikahulumeni, iphuzu ukuthi umbuso awunayo imali yejele, futhi abafuni ukuchitha imali ejele, bafuna ijele elishibhile. Abesifazane bayasebenza ngoba uma bengasebenzi bangabulawa indlala. Babengeke baphile lapho ngaphandle kokusebenza.
Isizathu sokuthi ngingabi nayo imvume yokwenza izinhlelo eziningi ukuthi abesifazane bayawasha, bathola amaBoliviano ayisishiyagalolunye ngezingcezu eziyishumi nambili. Kulawa maBoliviano ayisishiyagalolunye amaphoyisa athatha imali. Kodwa abanayo imvume yokuthatha leyo mali. Bakhuluma ngayo emsakazweni ukuze wonke umuntu azi ngayo. Ngakho-ke bamfaka esitokisini owesifazane owakhuluma ngalokho, kwaba khona ihlazo elikhulu, futhi ngalahlekelwa yimvume yamiโazibange zisaba izinhlelo zomsakazo.
Ungaya lapho. Uma kukhona omaziyo ungaya ngaphandle kwemvume uthi uhlelelwe ukuthi uvakashele unjeya futhi uzobona, bakhe umphakathi omncane ngaphakathi. Kodwa banamashawa amabili kwabesifazane abayikhulu namashumi ayisithupha, futhi bakhokhela ishawa. Banezinhlobo ezimbili zezikhala. Banendawo yokulala, ngalokho akudingeki bakhokhe. Kodwa-ke baphuma baye endaweni enkulu usuku lonke. Kuleyo ndawo enkulu abaningi bakhe izindawo zokuchitha usuku. Ukuze bathole omunye wabo kufanele bakhokhe. Owesifazane ongenayo iBoliviano eyodwa akanayo indawo usuku lonke. Noma yini abanayo ingumkhiqizo womzabalazo wabo.
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