UMichael Roberts usesebenze eDolobheni laseLondon iminyaka engaphezu kwengama-30 futhi ungumbhali wezincwadi ezimbalwa, I-Great Recession kanye ne-Long Depression. Unebhulogi enikeza umbono we-Marxist ngezomnotho nomnotho womhlaba ku-: thenextrecession.wordpress.com
I-SHARMINI PERIES: Inethiwekhi Yezindaba Zangempela. Ngingu-Sharmini Peries oza kuwe ngivela e-Baltimore. I-OECD, i-Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development, yaziwa kakhulu ngokukhuthaza izinqubomgomo ze-neoliberal, ezehlukile kakhulu kune-International Monetary Fund noma iBhange Lomhlaba. Kuleli sonto i-OECD ishicilele umbiko onesihloko esithi โIqhaza Nokuklanywa Kwezintela Zengcebo Ephelele ku-OECD,โ okuthatha ithuba elingalindelekile, elikhuthaza ukusetshenziswa kwezintela kumali enkulu, kanye nentela yezindlu, intela efeni lakho.
UMichael Roberts usesebenze eDolobheni laseLondon iminyaka engaphezu kwengama-30 futhi ungumbhali wezincwadi ezimbalwa, โThe Great Recessionโ kanye nethi โThe Long Depression.โ Ujoyina nathi evela eLondon. Michael, siyabonga kakhulu ngokuhlanganyela nathi namuhla.
U-MICHAEL ROBERTS: Sawubona, Sharmini.
SHARMINI PERIES: Embikweni othi, โIqhaza Nokuklanywa Kwezintela Zengcebo Ephelele ku-OECD,โ nginike ngomzuzu owodwa ukuthi umbiko uqukethe ini okuwusizo.
U-MICHAEL ROBERTS: Ngicabanga ukuthi into yokuqala ekushoyo ukuthi, okokuqala, ukungalingani kwengcebo kubi kakhulu futhi kubaluleke kakhulu ngezindlela eziningi kunokungalingani kwemali engenayo , ngoba ukungalingani kwengcebo kudala ukungalingani kwemali engenayo, futhi abantu abacebile banamandla amakhulu kanye nethonya. kanye namathuba, futhi bayakwazi ukukhiqiza imali ngaphandle komsebenzi. Elinye lamaqiniso eliwavezayo embikweni ukuthi umuntu osebenzela, njengokuthi, ama-euro ayizinkulungwane ezingamashumi amabili ngonyaka futhi athole imali yakhe emalini yemali kuyisikhundla esinamandla kakhulu kunomuntu okufanele asebenze izinkulungwane ezingamashumi amabili zamadola ngonyaka. Futhi ukusebenza ngezinkulungwane ezingamashumi amabili zamadola kuwumsebenzi onzima. Ukuthola imali ngaphandle kokwenza lutho kulula, kodwa futhi kukunika amandla engeziwe.
U-MICHAEL ROBERTS: Ngakho-ke ukuqoqwa kwengcebo kuqinisa lesi simo. Umcebo uzala ingcebo, kusho umbiko. Futhi lokho kuthola amandla engeziwe. Futhi lokho kusho ukuthi kufanele senze okuthile ngakho ngoba lesi simo sizoqhubeka nokuba sibi kakhulu. Abacebile bazoceba futhi abampofu, yithina sonke, sizoba mpofu, okungenani ngokuqhathaniswa. Yilokho umbiko usitshela khona. Umbiko omangalisa ngempela.
U-SHARMINI PERIES: Ngakho-ke uMichael, ngesikhathi sigcina ukukhuluma ngo-Okthoba, ngicabanga ukuthi, mayelana nokububula kwe-IMF mayelana nokukhuphuka kokungalingani emhlabeni. Futhi manje siyabona ukuthi i-OECD ijoyina lo mkhuba mayelana nokuzama ukubhekana nalokhu kungalingani. Kungani i-OECD, okuwuhlobo lwenhlangano ekhululekile futhi emelene nentela, isebenzisa ulimi esingakaze sizwe belusebenzisa ngaphambili?
U-MICHAEL ROBERTS: Yebo, kuyintuthuko emangalisa kakhulu. Njengoba usho, i-OECD inedumela lokuba neoliberal, njengoba abanye bethu besho ngakwesobunxele, okusho ukuthi banentshisekelo yokugcina izintshisekelo zemali hhayi izithakazelo zabasebenzi futhi ngokujwayelekile bazama ukukhuphula inzuzo yeminotho eminingi. emhlabeni jikelele, ngezigaba ezingabanikazi bezinto zokukhiqiza. Futhi lona umbiko omncane omangazayo. Futhi bathi ukungalingani kwengcebo kubaluleke kakhulu futhi kubi kakhulu kunokungalingani kweholo, futhi kufanele kwenziwe okuthile ngakho, okuyisimanga esikhulu kakhulu. Futhi ngicabanga ukuthi kungenxa yokuthi bakhathazekile ngezinga lokungalingani engcebweni emhlabeni wonke, futhi emazweni amaningi eminotho emikhulu, linjalo, liya lidlulela kakhulu. Cishe sekuyiminyaka eyi-150 singawaboni la mazinga. Khona-ke kungase kuholele ekuhlakazweni kwenkundla yezenhlalo nemibhikisho yezombangazwe. Futhi bayabona ukuthi kukhona okumele kwenziwe ngakho.
U-SHARMINI PERIES: Kulungile. Manje, sesiyazi mayelana nalokhu kungalingani okukhulayo isikhathi eside kakhulu. Futhi ngicabanga ukuthi incwadi ka-2013 kaThomas Piketty kungenzeka ukuthi iye yakuveza nakakhulu, isazi sezomnotho saseFrance esabhala incwadi ethi โCapital in the 21st Century.โ Manje, kusukela lapho bathole ithuba lokubhekana nalolu daba, kodwa akukuningi okwenzekile okwesikhashana, futhi manje abakwenzayo. Ngakho-ke kuphakamisa umbuzo wokuthi, uyazi, zibucayi kangakanani? Ingabe bazimisele ukushintsha imithetho yamazwe e-OECD, futhi bazimisele ngempela ukuphuma bayolwela lezi zinqubomgomo uma kukhulunywa ngohulumeni bamazwe amukela izinqubomgomo ezinjalo?
U-MICHAEL ROBERTS: Ngicabanga ukuthi mancane amathuba alokho. Ngisho, ukukunikeza amaqiniso ambalwa angeziwe angekho embikweni we-OECD osomnotho be-UN abaphuma nawo, bathole ukuthi i-1% ephezulu yabanikazi bengcebo emhlabeni, kanye namaphesenti angama-51 ayo yonke ingcebo emhlabeni. , futhi amaphesenti ayishumi aphezulu namaphesenti angu-10 ayo yonke ingcebo yomuntu siqu emhlabeni, kanye nephesenti elilodwa elicebe kakhulu, ngesilinganiso abakhulisa ingcebo yabo ngamaphesenti ayisithupha ngonyaka, bayoba nezingxenye ezimbili kwezintathu zomcebo womhlaba ngo-85. isibalo esimangalisayo. Izinga lomcebo emaphesentini angu-1 aphezulu likhula ngokuphindwe kabili izinga lomcebo kithina sonke emphakathini womhlaba. Yebo, iningi labantu emhlabeni alinayo nhlobo ingcebo. Kuzosho ukuthi amaphesenti angu-6 aphezulu angaba nawo, ungacabanga ngalokhu, imali eyizigidi eziyizigidi eziyizinkulungwane ezingama-2030, umcebo onenani lempahla yezezimali, impahla kanye nokonga imali. Ngaphezu kokuphindwe kabili.
Manje, lokho ukwanda okukhulu, futhi yingakho i-OECD iphoqeleka ukuthi icabange ngakho. Kodwa mina, mina, angingabazi ukuthi akekho noyedwa kohulumeni esibabuka emhlabeni wonke, ohulumeni abakhulu abazokwenza noma yini ngalokhu. Siyazi ukuthi abaphathi baseMelika ngaphansi kukaDonald Trump, kude nokubheka ukwehlisa ingcebo yabacebile, banezela engcebweni yabacebile ngokunciphisa intela yezinkampani kanye nentela engenayo yabacebile. Kwamanye amazwe, ohulumeni ngokuyinhloko bamaphakathi eJalimane, eSweden, eBrithani, eJapane, akekho kulabโhulumeni onesimiso nhlobo sokunciphisa izinga lokungalingani kwengcebo, ingasaphathwa eyokungalingani kweholo, nanoma yiluphi uhlelo lokwenza kanjalo. noma iyiphi inhloso yokwenza kanjalo eminyakeni embalwa ezayo.
I-SHARMINI PERIES: URobert, lokho abakubiza ngokuthi intela yefa, noma intela yezwe, noma lokho amaRiphabhulikhi ase-US akubiza ngokuthi intela yokufa, awadumile kakhulu, ngoba lokhu kusho ukuthi awukwazi, uyazi, dlulisela yonke ingcebo yakho esizukulwaneni esilandelayo, izingane zakho, bese ugcina isigaba esibusayo esikhethekile esinaso e-US, nangale, emhlabeni wonke. Besingakuhlasela kanjani lokhu? I-EOCD ibingenzeka kanjani, uma ubunethuba lokubeluleka, ingenziwa kanjani?
U-MICHAEL ROBERTS: Yebo, kunezinto ezimbalwa, ngicabanga, Sharmini. Okokuqala, ingabe iyona ndlela engcono kakhulu yokukhokhiswa intela abantu abathola izinzuzo lapho kushona abazali noma izihlobo zabo? Ingabe leyo yindaba ebaluleke kakhulu, intela yengcebo yomuntu siqu, okuwumbono kaThomas Piketty nabanye, osomnotho okhulume ngabo. Noma kubaluleke kakhulu ukuba nokulawula kwangempela phezu kokuqoqwa kwezimali okukhona ezinkampanini ezinkulu, izinkampani ezinkulu, ezilawula izindlela zethu zokukhiqiza futhi eziholela ekukhiqizeni lokhu kukhula okukhulu kwemali engenayo kanye nokukhula komcebo kuze kufike kumaphesenti angu-1 aphezulu. Kubonakala kimina kufanele sibheke kuleyo ndawo.
I-OECD iyavuma ukuthi imali engenayo yentela ngeke yenze okuningi ukushintsha izinga lokungalingani kwengcebo. Futhi-ke Uma sibheka intela, mhlawumbe, yayo ingcebo ezuzwe njengefa, futhi ukuya phambili, mhlawumbe, amazwe amane kuphela omhlaba empeleni ingcebo yentela. Wonke umuntu uyayikhokha intela, ohulumeni bayayikhokhisa imali engenayo kodwa abayikhokhi intela ingcebo. Amazwe ambalwa kakhulu. Futhi inani lamazwe alungiselelwe ukwenza lokho empeleni liyehla, alinyuki. Ngakho kimi kubonakala sengathi ukubheka ingcebo yomuntu siqu indawo eyodwa kuphela. Indlela okufanele sibheke ngayo ukuthi kwenzekani ngengcebo yezinkampani kanye nokugcwala kwezimali lapho.
Futhi enye indawo, iSharmini, iyinani elikhulu lezindawo zokucasha lapho ingcebo ingakhokhiswa nhlobo intela. UDaniel Zachmann, onguzakwabo kaThomas Piketty, wenza ucwaningo oluyisipesheli eminyakeni embalwa edlule futhi wathola ukuthi amaphesenti angu-8 ayo yonke ingcebo emhlabeni ifihliwe nje ezindaweni zentela njengePanama, uyazi ngamaPanama Papers ukuthi wembula lokhu, inani elikhulu lomcebo elingakhokhiswa nhlobo intela, lifihlwe ngokuphelele ngokomthetho ezimweni eziningi, ngemithetho ehlukahlukene. Kimina kubukeka sengathi kumele siqale simise izindawo zokukhosela intela ezenzeka emazweni omhlaba. Okwesibili, kufanele sibheke ukugcwala kwezimali ezinkampanini ezinkulu. Isikhungo saseSwitzerland senze ucwaningo oluthole ukuthi izinkampani eziyi-147, eziyi-147 nje kuphela, zilawula amaphesenti angama-70 ayo yonke ingcebo yezinkampani emhlabeni. Futhi ukube besinohlobo oluthile lokulawula ukuthi bawukhiqiza kanjani lowo mcebo nokuthi basabalalisa kanjani ngokuwulawula, besiyoba sesimweni esingcono kakhulu sokuhlela kabusha ukungalingani kwengcebo.
Ukubheka nje ukuzama ukwehlisa inani lemali engenayo i-1% ephezulu enayo angicabangi ukuthi izokwanela. Futhi i-OECD iyavumelana nalokho.
U-SHARMINI PERIES: Kulungile. Robert, uma-ke i-IMF kanye neBhange Lomhlaba kanye ne-OECD kanye ne-European Central Bank, i-ECB, basebenza kahle kakhulu ekufuneni nasekuphoqeni amazwe ukuthi asebenzise izindlela zokuqiniswa, ngokwesibonelo. Ngakho-ke, uma lezi zikhungo zithatha isikhundla sokuthi kumele kube nokwabiwa okungcono komcebo ezweni, kufanele kubekwe leyo migomo, kwehliswe ukungalingani, kuvalwe igebe, njalo njalo. Uma bebezoba nezinqubomgomo zalolo hlobo bangakwazi ukuzisebenzisa, akunjalo?
U-MICHAEL ROBERTS: Bayakwazi ngokuphelele ukuzisebenzisa. Kungumbuzo wentando yezepolitiki kanye nesenzo sezepolitiki. Njengoba ngishilo ekuqaleni, lapho iningi lohulumeni abaphethe njengamanje, abaphathi beminotho emikhulu lapho lokhu kuyodingeka khona, ohulumeni abanalo uhlelo olunjalo. Eqinisweni, okuphambene nalokho. Basekela izinqubomgomo kanye nezintshisakalo zemali kunenzuzo yamaphesenti angama-99.
Ngakho-ke lapha sine-OECD, isikhungo sezomnotho samazwe ngamazwe esihlonishwayo okuthiwa sinikeza izeluleko nocwaningo mayelana nokuthi yini okufanele kwenzeke, futhi itshela ohulumeni, ohulumeni abakhulu bomhlaba, ukungalingani kwengcebo kuphezulu kakhulu, kubi nakakhulu. kunokungalingani kweholo, okuyinto embi ngokwanele futhi iba kubi kakhulu, futhi kufanele kwenziwe okuthile ngakho, noma ngabe ukukhokhiswa intela engcebweni noma yini. Futhi sinenqwaba yohulumeni, ohulumeni abakhulu abamele, ukusho, ku-G20, bonke abangenanhloso yokwenza lutho ngalokhu. Kungikhumbuza, Sharmini, ngezimpikiswano mayelana nokushintsha kwesimo sezulu. Isayensi ibonisa ukuthi umhlaba uyashisa. Ukufudumala kwembulunga yonke kuyaphuma esandleni. Kuzolimaza izinsiza zemvelo zomhlaba futhi kucekele phansi izimpilo zabantu. Kodwa ohulumeni abazimisele ukwenza noma yini engathi sรญna ngakho.
Ngakho-ke kuncike entandweni yezepolitiki nasezenzweni zezepolitiki. Futhi ababukeli bakho nabafundi nabalaleli bakho kufanele baqaphele ukuthi ngempela umbuzo wesenzo sezombusazwe, hhayi uhlobo oluthile lomsebenzi ongenakwenzeka ongenakuguqulwa.
SHARMINI PERIES: Bengikhuluma noMichael Roberts, umbhali we "The Great Recession" kanye "The Long Depression." Michael, ngiyabonga kakhulu ngokuhlanganyela nathi namuhla.
U-MICHAEL ROBERTS: Ngiyabonga.
U-SHARMINI PERIES: Futhi siyabonga ngokuhlanganyela nathi lapha ku-Real News Network.
I-ZNetwork ixhaswa kuphela ngokuphana kwabafundi bayo.
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