Kwiintsuku emva kwendibano yokubulala abantu abamhlophe eCharottesville, eVirginia, ileta ephawulekayo yapapashwa kwiphephandaba lasekhaya eFargo, kuMantla Dakota. Le leta yabhalwa nguPearce Tefft malunga nonyana wakhe, uPeter Tefft, owayefotwe kwindibano yangoMgqibelo yokubulala abantu abamhlophe eCharlottesville. Pearce Tefft wabhala: โ[Akukho] nanye yeenkolelo zakhe eyafundwa ekhaya. Asazi, asisoze, kwaye asisoze samkele imbono yakhe yehlabathi ejijekileyo. [uPetros] wakha waqhula wathi, โInto ngathi thina boFasi kukuba, asikuko ukuba asikholelwa kwinkululeko yokuthetha. Unokuthetha nantoni na oyifunayo. Siza kukujulela eziko.' UPetros, kuya kufuneka ukuba uhlakulele imizimba yethu kwi-oven, nayo. Nceda nyana, lahla inzondo, wamkele kwaye uthande konke. Idemokhrasi Ngoku! kutshanje uthethe nelinye ilungu losapho, uJacob Scott, umtshana kaPeter Tefft, kunye noChristian Picciolini, umseki weLife After Hate, umbutho ongenzi nzuzo onceda abantu ukuba bahlukane nentiyo kunye nobundlobongela obugqithileyo. Wayelilungu eliphambili leqela le-neo-Nazi skinhead kunye ne-artist ekude-ekunene ngeminyaka yee-'80s kunye nee'90s.
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Yi le Intando yeninzi Ngoku!, democracynow.org, Ingxelo Yemfazwe Nezoxolo. Ndingu-Amy Goodman, njengoko siqhubeka nosasazo lwethu olukhethekileyo. Kwiintsuku emva kwendibano yokubulala abantu abamhlophe eCharottesville, eVirginia, okumangalisayo ileta yapapashwa kwiphephandaba lasekuhlaleni eFargo, kuMntla Dakota. Le leta yabhalwa nguPearce Tefft malunga nonyana wakhe, uPeter Tefft, owayefotwe kwindibano yangoMgqibelo yokubulala abantu abamhlophe eCharlottesville. Uyise, uPearce Tefft, wabhala: โ[Akukho] nanye yeenkolelo zakhe eyafundwa ekhaya. Asazi, asisoze, kwaye asisoze samkele imbono yakhe yehlabathi ejijekileyo. [uPetros] wakha waqhula wathi, โInto ngathi thina boFasi kukuba, asikuko ukuba asikholelwa kwinkululeko yokuthetha. Unokuthetha nantoni na oyifunayo. Siza kukujulela e-ontini.'โ Ke, uyise waqhubeka, โPeter, kuya kufuneka uyifake ngomhlakulo imizimba yethu e-ontini, nawe. Nceda nyana, lahla inzondo, wamkele kwaye uthande konke.
Lawo ngamazwi kaPearce Tefft, utata kaPeter Tefft omhlophe, owamatsha eCharlottesville. Kulungile, kutshanje wathetha kwelinye ilungu lentsapho, uJacob Scott, umtshana kaPeter Tefft. Ukongeza kuYakobi, ndaqhubeka nencoko yethu kunye noChristian Picciolini, umseki weLife After Hate, umbutho ongenzi nzuzo onceda abantu ukuba bahlukane nentiyo kunye nobundlobongela obugqithileyo. UChristian Picciolini wayelilungu eliphambili le-neo-Nazi skinhead kunye noontamo lukhuni kwi-'80s kunye ne'90s. Ndaqala ngokubuza uYakobi eFargo malunga nokuba kwenzeka ntoni kusapho lwakhe.
UYAKOBO I-SCOTT: UPeter, ixesha elide, wayengumxhaphazi kwaye engazinzanga. Kwaye mna nomzala wam kudala sifuna ukuba kubekho uhlobo oluthile lokusabela kule nto kusapho, uyazi, uhlobo oluthile lokwaliwa. Kwakusemva kokuba uCharlottesville, emva kokuba ebandakanyeke kumboniso owabulala umntu, ukuba saba luhlobo oluthile ekugqibeleni sakwazi ukufumana yonke intsapho ebhodini kunye nathi.
Kwaye siye saba luhlobo oluthile lokuza kuluntu. Sasinazo-kwakukho iipowusta ezazixhonywe ngaseFargo ngabanye abantu ababedibene naye kwaye bajongana nentiyo yakhe, uhlobo lokuthetha-nomfanekiso wakhe kubo, besithi, uyazi, "Lo nguPete Tefft. . UngumNazi. Akamkelekanga apha ekuhlaleni.โ Kwaye xa ezi powusta ziqala ukunyuka, abantu baqala ukuthetha nam kunye nomzala wam, kwaye sasifana, "Ewe, ungumNazi. Ufanele uhlukane naye ukuba uyamazi.โ
Kodwa, uyazi, ukuya kwinto eyathethwa ngumfo owaseka uBomi emva kweNtiyo, ndicinga ukuba ingcamango yakhe iphuma kwinto enzulu kunoko, uyazi, izibakala okanye iinqobo ezisemgangathweni. Uyazi, eneneniโndivakalelwa kukuba kukho into eyaphukileyo ngaye njengomntu, yaye udla ngokuba buhlungu kakhuluโuya kuchukumiseka kakhulu, kakhulu, ngequbuliso, ukuba uyamkhathaza. Kwaye uya kuba nobundlobongela. Ndithetha ukuthi kukho isiganeko apho waye wazama ukubetha omnye umzala wam. Ke, ngokuqinisekileyo ndiyavumelana nombono wokuba oku kuvela kwinto enzulu ngakumbi.
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Kwenzeka njani ukuba ubuzwe bakhe obumhlophe? Wayibona ngoku wawukhula? Ngaba ulingana ngeminyaka, nangona engumalume wakho?
UYAKOBO I-SCOTT: Ndimncinci kancinci kuye. Ndingoyena mdala kwisizukulwana sam. Ungoyena mncinane kwisizukulwana sakhe. Ke, nangona singoomalume, sisondele ebudaleni. Sifana nabazala, kodwa-
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Yaye kuthetha ukuthiniโkuthethโ ukuthini ukuthi uyise umlahlile?
UYAKOBO I-SCOTT: Ingaba ibiyintoni lonto?
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Kuthetha ukuthini ukuthi utata wakhe umlahlile, usapho lwakhe lumshiyile?
UYAKOBO I-SCOTT: Kaloku, kuthetha ukuba akasamkelekanga kwiimbutho zosapho. Kuthetha ukuba akukho mntu kusapho lwethu onokumamkela emakhayeni ethu.
Ukuphendula umbuzo wakho wokuqala, yena-uyazi, usapho lwethu lonke, ndiyathetha, sonke singabaqhubeli phambili. Sonke singamafeminist. Kodwa malunga no-2012, ngexesha lephulo lika-Ron Paul lobumongameli, uPeter waqala ukungena kwezi zithuba ze-intanethi, njenge-4chan kunye ne-Infowars kunye nezinye, kwaye waqala ukuginya zonke ezo ntsomi. Kwaye emva kokuba engene kuloo nto, waqhubeka ehamba phambili nangaphezulu kwaye elungile. Kwaye konke oku kwenzeka ngasemva kwethu. Waba litshantliziyo lamalungelo amadoda. Kwaye emva koko, kwiminyaka embalwa edlulileyo, wabonakala kwindibano yosapho kwaye waqalisa ukuthetha ngamaYuda. Ndaze ndambuza ukuba waziqonda na njengomlweli wesizwe omhlophe, wathi, โEwe, ndingumFascist.โ
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Thetha malunga nokuba kuthetha ukuthini ngoku xa usapho lwakho luphumile, ileta ishicilelwe ephepheni. Ukhutshiwe njengomnye wabaphathi abamhlophe kwindibano eCharlottesville.
UYAKOBO I-SCOTT: Uyazi, amawaka abantu beza, xa u-Ewe, uRacist wamkhupha, kwaye wayekhukulisa iphepha lakhe likaFacebook ngamagqabaza kunye nezigxeko ezahlukeneyo. Kwakukho intwana yomlilo wobuhlobo, ngokungathi kunjalo. Kwakukho iindidi ezimbalwaโkwakukho abantu abambalwa, phakathi kwamawaka, ababelandela amanye amalungu entsapho yethu. Kwaye, uyazi, abanye abantu bebezama ukuthi aba bachasi bobuFasi babi kanye njengabo bobuFasi, kwaye ba-uyazi, basebenzisa amaqhinga afanayo. Kodwa, ekugqibeleni, ndiyathetha, xa ndiqwalasela amawakawaka abantu abalandele umalume wam, yayingama-apile nje amabi awayezama ukuhlukumeza amalungu athile osapho lwam. Kwaye kukho ke abanye abantu ababecinga ukuba thina kuphelaโkodwa thina simkhanyelayo, yaye kuphela nje samkhanyela ekuhleni, ukuze sithinteleโukuba sizisindise, ngokungathi kunjalo, ukuze sikhululeke kwityala. Kodwa kwakhona, njengomzala wam kunye nam kudala sityhala ngale nto. Asikholelwa ukuba umNazi ufanele amkelwe kwintsapho yakowethu. Kwaye kudala sifuna ukuba angabikho kwimicimbi yentsapho. Asicingi ukuba ukwamkela umNazi kwintsaphoโentsatsheni, ukuvumela umNazi ukuba aye kwimicimbi yentsapho yethu, kuyinto efanelekileyo yokuziphatha. Ivumela ubuNazi. Ithi kulungile ukuba abe ngumNazi kwaye useza kwamkelwa entsatsheni. Kwaye ke, savuya kakhulu kuba ekugqibeleni sakwazi ukukhwela usapho lonke ngale nto.
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Ngoko ke, ndandizibuza ukuba umKristu uPicciolini unokuphendula kuYakobi-uChristian Picciolini, owayesakuba yi-neo-Nazi kunye nomseki-li qela, Ubomi Emva Kwenzondo. Ukuba ubunokuthetha ngale nto uyivileyo kunye nendlela usapho lukaYakobi oluye lwaphuma ngayo kwakhona kumalume wakhe, umlweli wesizwe omhlophe uPeter Tefft, owayeyinxalenye yendibano eCharlottesville? Ucinga ukuba yintoni enokwenziwa kule meko? Ndithetha ukuthi, ugqithe kakhulu ngoku, abantu abanjengawe, babengoomhlophe kwaye baqala ukutshintsha.
KUKRISTU PICCIOLINI: Uyazi, ndiyavumelana noYakobi ukuba kufuneka sibaphendulise abantu ngento abayithethayo kunye nento abayenzayo. Nangona kunjalo, andivumelani neqhinga lokuhlazisa uluntu okanye ukubiza umntu ngenjongo yokumtyhalela kude. Kwaye ndiyazi ukuba yayingeyiyo injongo leyo. Injongo yayikukuzama ukwenza ingxelo ukuze uPetros azi ukuba intsapho yakhe yayimkhathalele yaye yayiza kumamkela kwakhona ukuba uyazilahla iimbono zakhe. Kodwa kwenzeka ntoni kwaye kutheni abantu bejoyina ezi ntlobo zeentshukumo kungenxa yokuba sele beziva bekhutshiwe, kuba sele beziva bevinjwe kwaye bahluthwa. Kwaye ukumtyhalela kude angamniki nkxaso yesakhiwo sosapho, ndiyoyika, kuya kumtyhalela phambili kule ntshukumo, kuba kukho into ayihambayo. Wahamba efuna uluntu okanye intsapho kunye nesazisi. Kwaye ukuba usapho, usapho lokwenyani analo, luyityhalela kude nangakumbi loo nto, amathuba okuba abuye kuba eziva ezisola ngento ethethwe lusapho lwakhe, ngokokubona kwam akukho nanye.
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Yakobi, ukuba ubunokuthetha malunga nokuba kuya kuthetha ntoni ukwamkela uPetros kwakhona kunye nazo naziphi na iinzame ozenzileyo, njengoko wayesiya eguqukela kubungangamsha obumhlophe, ukufikelela kuye ngaphambi kolu qhawulo-mtshato lokugqibela?
UYAKOBO I-SCOTT: Ewe, ndiyayiqonda into ethethwa nguMnu. Picciolini. Kule-kwaye ndingavumelana naloo nto kwimeko jikelele, ukuba usapho ngaphandle kukho umntu oqala ukuwela kwi-white supremacist uhlobo lomgibe wengqondo. Kodwa kwimeko kaPetros ngamnye, kufuneka ndicinge ukuba umke kakhulu. Uyazi, phambi kokuba kuphume ikhefu, bendithetha ngendlela anjani ngayoโnjengomntu, akazinzanga kwaye akaguquguquki. Uyazi, esinye sesizathu sokuba mna nomzala wam sifune ukuba alahlwe ngokusemthethweni entsatsheni, athintelwe ngokusesikweni kwimicimbi yosapho, kungenxa yokuba, ngokuphandle, siyamoyika. Njengoko benditshilo, uba buhlungu kakhulu, ngokweemvakalelo, kakhulu, ngequbuliso, ukuba uthe waqumba kancinci. Kwaye unezihlunu kakhulu. Womelele kakhulu. Kwaye amalungu amaninzi osapho awaziva ekhuselekile xa ekunye naye. Ke, ngelixa kukho ukuqwalaselwa, uyazi, indlela engcono kakhulu esinokuqhubana ngayo naye ngendlela yokuba azive ngathi usenokubuyela kuthi, kukwakhona ukuqwalaselwa, uyazi, okwangoku, Ngaba unokusenzakalisa? Ngaba bekuya kuba sempilweni ngakumbi ukuba siqiniseke ukuba akakho phambi kwethu, ubuncinane de yena, eyedwa, afumane indlela yokubuya?
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Mkristu, nawaphi na amazwi obulumko apha? Ndithetha ukuthi, anizange nimke nje kulawulo lwabamhlophe, intlangano yeneo-Nazi, kodwa ndiโkwiqela lenu, ukuba ninokusixelela amabali athi, Life After Hate, abanye abantu? Kwaye zeziphi ezona ndlela zisebenzayo, ngokusebenzisa i-anecdotes kunye namabali?
KUKRISTU PICCIOLINI: Ngokuqinisekileyo. Kulungile, uyazi, indlela yethu yokusebenza nabantu ngovelwano nangovelwano kwaye simamele into abayithethayo, endaweni yokubaxabanisa nabo ngeengcinga okanye ukubatyhalela kude. Kwaye into endiyimamelayo zezi zinto ndizibiza ngokuba yimingxunya-izinto ezazikho endleleni yazo eyayiphambukayo. Kwaye ke, umsebenzi wam uba kukugcwalisa loo mingxunya, nokuba luqeqesho lomsebenzi okanye uqeqesho lobomi okanye ukususwa kwetattoo okanye unyango lwempilo yengqondo. Kwaye kwenzeka ntoni ngokungenakuthintelwa kukuba, xa abantu bexhotyiswe ngakumbi, beyiqonda into abajongene nayo ngaphakathi, akuyomfuneko ukuba babeke ityala komnye umntu ngento abavakalelwa kukuba ithathwa kubo, kuba ngoku bomelele kwaye bayakwazi ngakumbi ukukhuphisana kwaye bazithembe ngakumbi. Nangona kunjalo, ndiyayicela umngeni kwiingcamango zabo, ngokunjalo, kodwa kungekhona ngokuxoxa. Into endiyenzayo kukubazisa ebantwini abacinga ukuba bayabacaphukela. Kwaye ndiye ndazisa abakhanyeli beHolocaust kubasindi beHolocaust, i-Islamophobes kwii-imams kunye neentsapho zamaSilamsi ukuba zibe nesidlo sangokuhlwa sosapho. Kwaye zezo ntlobo zonxibelelwano, loo mathuba okwenza ubuntu, abuyisela abantu umva, kuba abantu bajoyina la maqela kuba bephumile bekhangela into abangayifumaniyo kubomi babo bokwenyani.
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Bendifuna ukuya kumalume wakho, uPeter Tefft, osandula ukuthetha nesikhululo sasekhaya UMDLALO Umabonwakude eFargo, eMntla Dakota, apho nawe, uYakobi, uhlala khona. UPetros walikhusela igama elithi โubuFasiโ kwaye wathi akasoli usapho lwakhe ngokuthetha ngokuchasene naye esidlangalaleni.
UPETROS TEFFT: UbuFasi kukuthanda usapho lwakho kwaye wenze okona kulungileyo kwisizwe sakho. Akukho nto ndibabambe yona malunga nento abayithethayo ngam, kuba yeyona nto ikhuselekileyo enokwenziwa kule meko yezopolitiko. โUbuNaziโ sisinyeliso sobuhlanga kubantu abamhlophe.
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: UYakobi, njengoko umphulaphule, iingcamango zakho?
UYAKOBO I-SCOTT: Ndithetha ukuthi, uthetha ngolu hlobo: UbuFasi bumalunga nokuthanda intsapho yakowenu, yaye โubuNaziโ sisinyeliso sobuhlanga nxamnye nabamhlophe. Ndithetha ukuthi ngathi wehle kakhulu emngxunyeni wemivundla kangangokuba awukwazi nokufikelela kuye umbuyise. Ngokucacileyo, ndiyathemba ukuba asiyonyani leyo. Kodwa, ekugqibeleni, yimeko leyo esizifumana sikuyo. Uyazi, yenaโndizithatha ndikude kakhulu ngasekhohlo. Ndizithatha njengobusoshiyali bedemokhrasi. Uye wathetha nam malunga nendlela yena kunye nam, nabantu bam nabantu bakhe, ekufuneka sidibane ngayo, kuba sobabini silwa ngokuchasene nokusekwa okufanayo, iiglobalists ezifanayo. Kwaye, uyazi, ndithi kuye, โUyazi, ukholelwa kucalucalulo lobuhlanga. Ndiyakholelwa kwimbuyekezo yobuhlanga. Akukho ukufana phakathi kwethu. โ Kwaye yena kunye namaNazi amaninzi bacinga ukuba balwa nokusekwa. Kodwa ubuhlanga kukusekwa, uyazi? Ndithetha ukuthi, ubungxowankulu bakhelwe phezu kobuhlanga ukusuka phezulu ukuya phezulu. Kwaye ke, xa unombono wehlabathi oluhlobo lokujonga yonke into phezulu nasemva, yi-i-nje-andazi ukuba ndingafikelela njani kuye kwaye ndimthintele njani ekwenzeni izinto athi uya kuzenza.
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Christian Picciolini, xa usiva uPetros ethetha, umalume kaYakobi, zithini izimvo zakho?
KUKRISTU PICCIOLINI: Ewe, kwinto endiyivileyo kwikliphu evela kuPetros kunye nento endiyivile kuYakobi kukuba le nto ithethwa nguPetros iphuma ngqo, uyazi, incwadi. Uphinda zonke izinto azifundisiweyo.
Kwaye, uyazi, ndifuna ukunika ababukeli intwana yethemba. Kwaye xa uYakobi esithi, uyazi, umkile kakhulu, andikholelwa ukuba kukho nabani na owake wahamba kakhulu. Ndisebenze kunye, uyazi, iidragons ezinkulu ze KKK abaye bahlala iminyaka engama-40 kwaye baqaphela impazamo yeendlela zabo kwaye ngequbuliso ngoku baqonda, uyazi, ayiseyiyo le nto bafuna ukuyenza kwaye bachithe, uyazi, ubomi babo. Uyazi, mna, ngokwam, ndinexesha elidlulileyo. Xa ndandibandakanyeka kulo mbutho, ndamenywa eLibya nguMuammar Gaddafi ukuze ndifumane imali yokuqalisa uvukelo nxamnye namaYuda. Ndenza izenzo zogonyamelo ezaphantse zabulala abantu abaninzi. Ndaqokelela izixhobo ukuze ndilungele oko ndandikholelwa ukuba yimfazwe yobuhlanga engenakuphepheka. Ke, uyazi, kuloo nto, ndingatsho-kwaye ndiye ndasebenza nabantu abasentolongweni abaye babulala abantu bebala ngenxa yobuhlanga babo. Kwaye ngelixa besentolongweni, bafumana indlela yokuzikhwebula kuloo nto, mhlawumbi eyona ndawo inzima ukuyenza loo nto. Ke, uyazi, ukunika ithemba nje, ndisebenze nabantu abanzima kakhulu, uyazi, abantu abaninzi abanakuze bacinge ukuba bangatshintsha, kwaye ngokwenene luvelwano olubonisa lona, โโkuba yiloo nto ebisilela ngaphakathi. ngokwabo nakubantu ababangqongileyo njengoko bephoxeka, uyazi, iinkolelo zabo babathandayo.
Ke into endiya kuyithetha kuYakobi kukuba, unganikezeli. Ukuba unenkathaloโkwaye kuyabonakala ukuba intsapho ikhathalele uPetros; kungenjalo, ngebabengazithethanga ezo zinto bazenzayoโkodwa ninganikezeli.
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: UJacob, ngaba uPeter ubhale umyalezo emva komngcelele weKlan ngolwesihlanu ebusuku, itotshi-umngcelele wetotshi, apho amakhulukhulu abantu abamhlophe baqhankqalaza kwikhampasi yeYunivesithi yaseVirginia, ekhokelele komnye wabachasi ukuba abe nestroke, njengoko wayebethwa zezi. iitotshi zetiki phambi komfanekiso oqingqiweyo kaThomas Jefferson kwiYunivesithi yaseVirginia? Kodwa ngaba ukuthumelele umyalezo emva kweendibano zangoLwesihlanu nohlaselo lwangoMgqibelo?
UYAKOBO I-SCOTT: Ewe, uye wandithumelela umyalezo emva kokuba ndivuliwe CNN izolo. Wayendithumelela imiyalezo, eqinisekile ukuba ndinguyeโukuba ndandikwicala lakhe ngokufihlakeleyo yaye ngandlelโ ithile ndandimnceda ngokuvakalisa esidlangalaleni le ndibano awayefuna ukuyiqhuba.
Ndiyathemba ukubaโuyazikhohlisa ngale nto kwaye akanawo amandla okuququzelela indibano, ekusenokwenzeka ukuba kunjalo. Kodwa ukuba ubambe irali yakhe, uthi ufuna ukuyibamba ngo-Okthobha. Kwaye ukuba kunjalo, siya kubamba i-counter-rally yethu. Kwaye sinethemba lokuba abantu baya kuza eFargo kwaye basincede, kuba, uyazi, sinoluntu olunenkqubela phambili apha eFargo, kwaye ndiqinisekile ukuba kuya kubakho abantu abaninzi apha abafuna ukuchasa, kodwa, uyazi. , ukuba uPetros uneprofayili enkulu yesizwe-kwaye kubonakala ngathi unokuphuhlisa enye ngenxa yesi siganeko sonke-unokukwazi ukuzisa, uyazi, ngubani owaziyo ukuba bangaphi amaNazi, kwaye banokukwazi ukudlula thina. , indlela esiye sabona ngayo kweminye imifanekiso evela eCharlottesville, apho kwakukho, uyazi, ikhonkco elincinci labachasi kwaye emva koko nje ulwandle lweetotshi zetiki ezijikelezayo. Asiyomeko endifuna ukuyibona apha eFargo. Ngoko ukuba uye wagqiba ekubeni enze okuthile, ndiyathemba ukuba sinokufumana abantu abasuka ngaphandle kwedolophu ukuba baze kusinceda.
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Inkokeli yeqela lentiyo yaseVanguard America neo-Nazi eyadibana eCharlottesville, uDillon Ulysses Hopper, wayengumqeshwa waseMarine Corps. Ngoku, oku kunomdla kakhulu. Kukholelwa ukuba olu lwazi lukhokelele umphathi weMarine, intloko yeMarines, ukuba akhuphe ingxelo. Jikelele uRobert Neller, umphathi weMarine Corps, kwi-tweet, "akukho ndawo yentiyo yobuhlanga okanye i-extremism kwi-@USMC [i-US Marine Corps]. Iinqobo zethu ezisisiseko zembeko, iNkupho, kunye nokuZibophelela zicwangcisa indlela abaphila ngayo nabasebenza ngayo abaselwandle. " Kwaye yayingengomphathi waselwandle kuphela obhale kwi-tweet, kodwa kubonakala ngathi phantse yonke injengele yeeNkosana eziManyeneyo zaBasebenzi ngoku yenze iziteyitimenti, kwaye isenokuba yinxalenye ngenxa yenkomfa yeendaba kaMongameli uTrump. indawo ngoLwesibini. Bendifuna ukukudlalela inxalenye yento eyathethwa nguMongameli uTrump ngoLwesibini malunga nendibano ebulalayo ye-Charlottesville white supremacist rally.
INGXELO 1: Ubusithi kukho intiyo, kukho ubundlobongela macala. Ngaba abachasi banetyalaโ
PRESIDENT HLALUTYA I-TRUMP: Ewe, ndicinga ukuba kukho ityalaโewe, ndicinga ukuba kukho ityala kumacala omabini. Ujongeโujonge kumacala omabini, ndicinga ukuba kukho ityala kumacala omabini. Kwaye andinamathandabuzo ngayo, kwaye awunakuthandabuza ngayo, nawe. Kwaye-kwaye-
INGXELO 1: Kodwa ngamaNazi kuphela -
PRESIDENT HLALUTYA I-TRUMP: Kwaye-kwaye ukuba uyixele ngokuchanekileyo, ungatsho.
INGXELO 2: Elinye icala labulala umntu. UHeather Heyer wafa-
INGXELO 1: I-neo-Nazi yaqala oku. Baye babonakala eCharlottesville. Bavela eCharlottesville-
PRESIDENT HLALUTYA I-TRUMP: Andivanga. Andivanga.
INGXELO 1: โukuqhankqalazela ukususwa kwaloo mfanekiso uqingqiweyo.
PRESIDENT HLALUTYA I-TRUMP: Abazange bazibeke phantsi njenge-neo-kwaye wawunabantu ababi kakhulu kwelo qela. Kodwa nawe wawunabantu ababengabantu abalunge kakhulu, macala omabini.
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: "Bahle kakhulu abantu." UmKristu uPicciolini, umseki we-Life After Hate, i-nonprofit enceda abantu ukuba babaleke kwi-right-wing extremism, shiya amaqela afana ne-neo-Nazis, i-Klan, zithini iingcamango zakho, indima edlalwa nguMongameli uTrump? Kukho amaqela afana ne-Anne Frank Centre apha eNew York athi uTwitter makayivale iakhawunti yakhe kuba uxhokonxa intiyo nobundlobongela.
KUKRISTU PICCIOLINI: Ndiyakholelwa ukuba uDonald Trump ngoyena mntu ubalaseleyo kwi-intanethi. Ndicinga ukuba i-akhawunti yakhe kufuneka ivalwe, kuba kwinkqubo yakhe ye-rants kunye nee-tweets zakhe zemihla ngemihla, uyazi, ukuhlambalaza wonke umntu ukusuka kubantu abakhubazekileyo ukuya kwabasetyhini ukuya kubantu bemibala, kunye nemibutho exhasayo efana ne-alt-right kunye ne-retweeting nationalists abamhlophe, oku. ayisosenzo sifanelekileyo kumntu obambe eyona ofisi inkulu nenamandla ehlabathini.
The FBI ipapashe ingxelo kutsha nje ebonise ukuba kukho intaphane yokugaywa kwabantu okwenzekayo emkhosini nangaphakathi kunyanzeliso lomthetho. Kwaye, eneneni, yayilicebo elidibeneyo lethu kwiminyaka engama-30 eyadlulayo, xa ndandibandakanyeka kwintshukumo, xa saqaphela ukuba iintloko ezichetyiweyo kunye neeflegi ze-swastika kunye ne-Klan hoods zazijikisa umyinge wobuhlanga omhlophe waseMelika esinokuthi sikwazi. ukugaya, kodwa boyika kakhulu ukujoyina kuba, uyazi, ngendlela esasiyiyo. Ngoko sagqiba ngelo xesha, kwiminyaka engama-30 eyadlulayo, ukuba asiyi kucheba iintloko zethu. Sasiza kurhweba ngeebhutsi zethu ngeesuti. Sasisiya kubhalisa kwikholeji kwaye sigaye kwiikhampasi. Sasifumana imisebenzi kwabezomthetho, siye emkhosini ukuze sifumane uqeqesho size sikwazi ukugaya abantu apho, size singenelele nezikhundla. Yaye silapha kwiminyaka engama-30 kamva elo phuphaโokanye elo phupha loyikekayoโlizalisekile. Ngoku, uyazi, banxibe iipolos neekhaki, kwaye ziyadibanisa. Zifana noogqirha bethu, oomatshini bethu, ootishala bethu, abongikazi bethu. Kwaye kunzima ukubahlula, ngaphandle kwamazwi abawathethayo kunye nezenzo abazenzayo, amaxesha amaninzi, esidlangalaleni, xa bebodwa, abayi kuyenza.
Ke ndicinga ukuba intshukumo ngoku ininzi, inkulu kakhulu kunokuba injalo, kuba sele iqhelekile. Usulelekile umndilili waseMelika, oqhele ukuthetha izinto ezinje emva kweengcango ezivaliweyo okanye kubantu ababathembileyo, ngoku baziva benesibindi ngenxa yamazwi kunye nezenzo kunye nemigaqo-nkqubo kamongameli, abaziva ngathi. ube nomphathi-mkhosi ozifumanayo, oziqondayo iimbono zabo kwaye ukulungele ukubamela nokubalwela. Kwaye kuloo nkomfa yabezindaba, eneneni, yiloo nto ayenzayo, ngokulinganisa amacala omabini kwaye esithi kukho abantu abalungileyo kumacala omabini kwaye, uyazi, kungekhona ngokubiza i-alt-right-kufuneka ndiyikhankanye oku. Wayigxeka KKK. Wagxeka i-neo-Nazi kunye nezizwe ezimhlophe. Kodwa eyona nto wayishiyayo yayiyi-alt-right. Kwaye emva koko wabathethelela, esithi, "Ewe, babenayo imvume, kwaye abanye abantu babengenalo." Njengokuba ndikhathala-
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Kwaye wathetha nge "alt-left," abanye abantu.
KUKRISTU PICCIOLINI: Ewe, kwaye wathetha nge-alt-akukho "alt-kwesokunxele." Kukho amaMerika, kwaye kukho amaNazi. Kwaye manditsho nje, abantu ababengenaphepha-mvume apho, abantu ababelapho ukuze bachase amaNazi, ke, uMgaqo-siseko wase-US wabanika imvume yokwenza oko bakwenzayo, ngoko babengayidingi. Kwaye ngokokuxhalaba kwam, le yenye yezona zinto zibalulekileyo zethu zaseMelika, kukukwazi ukuqhankqalaza into esiyibona njengokonakalisa iinqobo zethu ezisisiseko zaseMelika, ezisafuna umsebenzi omninzi.
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Ndifuna ukujikela kwi-tweet entsha kaTrump. Ubhale nje wathi, โKulusizi ukubona imbali nenkcubeko yelizwe lethu elikhulu ikrazulwa kukususwa kwemifanekiso eqingqiweyo nezikhumbuzo zethu ezintle. Awunakutshintsha imbali, kodwa unokufunda kuyo. Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jacksonโngubani olandelayo, Washington, Jefferson? Bubudenge ke! Kwakhona ubuhle obukhutshelwa ngaphandle kwezixeko, iidolophu kunye neepaki zethu buya kuphoswa kakhulu kwaye akunakuze buphinde bube nokutshintshwa ngokuthelekiswayo!โ
KUKRISTU PICCIOLINI: Amy, manditsibe ndingene.
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Amazwi kamongameli waseUnited States. UChristian Picciolini?
KUKRISTU PICCIOLINI: Ndivumeleโewe, manditsibe ngaphakathi. Masiyihlise le mifanekiso eqingqiweyo, nangona kufuneka siyihlise. Masibabeke kumangcwaba e-Confederate, ukuze abantu abakholelwa ngokwenene kwilifa, nangona ndingavumelani noko, basenakho ukuhlawula izithixo zabo kunye namalungu entsapho zabo aphulukana nobomi babo kwiMfazwe Yombango. Nangona kunjalo, ndicinga ukuba kufuneka sitshintshe loo mifanekiso iqingqiweyo ngamagorha amalungelo oluntu, abantu baseMelika bokwenyani, abathe banikela ngobomi babo ukuze balwele ubulungisa kunye nephupha laseMelika. Kwaye ngakumbi umfanekiso oqingqiweyo kaRobert E. Lee oseCharlottesville, ndingacebisa ukuba umfanekiso oqingqiweyo unyuke endaweni yawo ukuze uhloniphe abantu abathathu abafa ngaloo mini, uyazi, kuba abo baseMelika bokwenene. Aba ngabantu ekufuneka sibajonge. Ezi ziinqobo esizixabisayo njengamaMerikaโhayi abezopolitiko okanye iinjengele zomkhosi ezikhuthaza imfazwe, ezikhuthaza ubukhoboka, abangamakhoboka. Ayisekho le nto iMelika malunga nayo. Siqhubela phambili, kwaye kufuneka siqhubele phambili nezithethe esizixabisayo nesifuna ukuba abantwana bethu bazuze kuzo. Ke, masizithobe, kwaye endaweni yazo masizifake ngento emele ukuba singoobani na kunye nesifuna ukuba ngabo.
NGABA INDAODA ELUNGILE: Lowo nguChristian Picciolini, umseki weLife After Hate, umbutho ongenzi nzuzo onceda abantu ukuba bahlukane nentiyo kunye nobundlobongela obugqithileyo. Wayelilungu eliphambili leqela le-neo-Nazi skinhead kunye ne-artist ekude-ekunene ngeminyaka yee-'80s kunye nee'90s. Ungumbhali we Ubundlobongela bothando: Iinkumbulo ze-American Skinhead. Besikwathetha noJacob Scott, umtshana kaFargo, eMntla Dakota, inzalelwane yasePeter Tefft, umntu omhlophe owayeyinxalenye yendibano yakutshanje yentiyo eCharlottesville.
Loo nto iyayenza kumboniso wethu. Ukuba ungathanda ukubhalisela izihloko zethu zemihla ngemihla, ungathumela igama elithi โdemocracynowโโigama elinye, akukho sithubaโku-66866. Leyo yi-โdemocracynowโ ku-66866. Yiya kwiwebhusayithi yethu ukuze ufumane iividiyo neepodcasts ezimanyelwayo, yonke imibhalo yomboniso wethu.
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