Kutshanje, uNikolas Kozloff, umbhali we UHugo Chavez: Ioyile, iPolitiko, kunye noMcelimngeni kwi-U.S. (Palgrave, 2006), wabanjwa kunye noManuel Cabies, uMlawuli we Inqaku lokugqibela, iphephandaba laseChile eliphuma kabini ngenyanga. UKozloff ngoku ubhala enye incwadi, Indlela entsha yoMzantsi Melika, nayo iza kukhutshwa nguPalgrave ngo-2008. Ngexesha lodliwano-ndlebe lweyure enye, iiCabies zaxoxa ngemvelaphi yakhe kunye nokuchasa urhulumente wePinochet, isivumelwano sorhwebo esikhululekileyo saseChile kunye ne-U.S., imeko yemibutho yentlalontle eChile, Hugo Chavez, China. Ukunyuka kweprofayile kuMzantsi Melika, kunye nendawo yangoku yeendaba zasekhohlo eChile.
NK: Ngaba ungandixelela kancinci ngemvelaphi yakho?
MC: Ekuqaleni ndandisebenza kwinkampani yeoli ndisengumfana. Sakha umanyano apho, kwaye ndandinoxanduva kwiphephandaba labasebenzi. Ngeli phepha ndazibandakanya kubuntatheli; Andizange ndifunde ubuntatheli kwindawo esesikweni.
NK: Wangena njani kwezopolitiko?
MC: Ndaqala ukuba nomdla kwipati engasekhoyo eChile, eyayibizwa ngokuba yiFalange Nacional. Lo yaba ngumanduleli weChristian Democratic Party. Ndaba nomdla kuyo kuba umama wayengumKatolika kwaye enobuhlobo neenkokeli ezahlukeneyo kwiqela. Andizange ndibe ngumkhosi kodwa. Ndathi ndakuqalisa ukusebenza ndaba nomdla kwiQela lamaKomanisi. Nam ndandingengomntu olwela ukulwa apho, kodwa ndaba nomdla kwiincwadi zikaMarx. Kamva, ngenxa yezizathu ezinxulumene nomsebenzi ndafudukela eVenezuela, oku kwakungee-1960s. EVenezuela ndandinonxibelelwano neQela lamaKomanisi laseVenezuela elathi ngelo xesha laliqalise umzabalazo wezigalo. Kamva ndabuyela eChile ndaza ndasebenza ngakumbi kwiQela lamaKomanisi. Ndithathe umsebenzi njengentatheli kwiphepha leQela lamaKomanisi. Kamva ndahlukana neQela lamaKomanisi ndaza ndaba ngumkhosi womkhosi weRevolutionary Leftist Movement (eyaziwa ngesifinyezo seSpanish esithi MIR). Oku kwakusemva nasemva kobhukuqo-mbuso lomkhosi lukaPinochet ngo-1973. Kamva ndavalelwa ndaza ndagxothwa elizweni. Emva koko ndabuyela eChile ngokufihlakeleyo njengomkhosi we-MIR.
NK: Ngaba ungacacisa kancinci malunga nentolongo kunye nokugxothwa?
MC: (wathula ixesha elide). Ndavalelwa iintsuku ezi-2 emva kobhukuqo-mbuso, esitratweni.
NK: Kufuphi kwiiofisi zakho apha?
MC: Ewe, apha edolophini. Bendisemotweni. Sonke kwafuneka ukuba sehle kuloo nqwelo-mafutha, yaye umntu othile esitratweni wandazi. Ulawulo lobuzwilakhe lukhuphe iingcebiso, lulumkisa ukuba abantu abathile mabazinikele, ukuquka nam. Ndavalelwa entolongweni ngaphezu kweminyaka emi-2, kwiintolongo ezahlukeneyo kulo lonke ilizwe. Ekugqibeleni ndagxothwa kunye nentsapho yakowethu. Saya eCuba. I was there for around 4 years ndaphinda ndabuya ndisithele nomfazi wam, laa Senora uphandle ubumbona eofisini yam. Sachitha phantse iminyaka elishumi sihlala ngokufihlakeleyo apha eChile, sisebenza neMIR. Yiloo nto ngesishwankathelo.
NK: Iqine kangakanani imibutho yentlalontle apha kwaye ingatyhalela ekhohlo kangakanani urhulumente?
MC: Babuthathaka kakhulu kwaye bane-atom. Ulawulo lobuzwilakhe, ngengcinezelo kunye nokunyanzeliswa kwemodeli yezoqoqosho, lwakwazi ukuqhekeza imibutho yasekuhlaleni, kwaye lwaphantse lwaphumelela ekubhangiseni naluphi na uhlobo lwentshukumo yasekhohlo yezopolitiko. Iimanyano zabasebenzi namhlanje zimbalwa kakhulu kunangoo-1970. Akunakwenzeka ukuba sibone ukuvela kwentshukumo yentlalo enamandla apha njengakwamanye amazwe afana neBolivia kunye ne-Ecuador ngokomzekelo.
NK: Abafundi bathini?
MC: Umbutho wabafundi kulo nyaka uphelileyo ubunamandla kakhulu ngengqiqo yokuba bekuneminyaka emininzi kungekho ntshukumo injalo. Kodwa ngaphakathi ibingengomelelanga kakhulu ngokwentlangano kwaye ayikwazanga ukuhlanganisana kwinqanaba lesizwe. Kulo nyaka umbutho wabafundi awukaqhubeli phambili kwaphela.
NK: Kuthwani ngamaNdiya?
I-MC: Emva kokuphela kobuzwilakhe bePinochet, amaIndiya aseMapuche aye asebenza kwezopolitiko ngamaxesha athile. Kodwa, njengamanye amacandelo oluntu, yintshukumo ye-atom kwaye akukho mbutho kazwelonke weMapuche. Awona maMapuches ane-radicalized abethwe kakhulu emva kwaye acinezelwa.
NK: Ingaba kungaphinda kubekho ungquzulwano lwentlalo apha xa intlupheko iyanda?
MC: Uphuhliso loqoqosho lwaseChile lufikelele kumda. Uqoqosho lwalukhula ngesantya se-6-7%, kodwa kunyaka ophelileyo lwehla ukuya kwi-4%. Kulo nyaka akulindelekanga ukuba inyuke kakhulu ngaphaya kwesi santya. I-dynamism ye-neo liberal, imodeli yokuthumela ngaphandle, ibonakala ifikelele kwithafa ngenxa yokuba i-Chile ayinazo izinto eziyimfuneko. Ngokusisiseko, imodeli yokuthumela ngaphandle isekwe kwimigodi, ngakumbi ubhedu, enye iziqhamo kunye nomthi. Kodwa akukho sikhundla sokukhuthaza uphuhliso olukhulu kwaye asinazo iiteknoloji ezahlukeneyo zokukhuphisana. Ngenxa yoko uqoqosho lukhula ngokucothayo, kwaye inani eliphezulu labantu, abanye abangama-500,000 XNUMX abangaphangeli ngokusisigxina.
NK: Intlupheko yehlile?
MC: Kwehlile intlupheko ngokweepesenti, kodwa eyona nto iqhubele phambili ngokukhawuleza bubutyebi obugqithisileyo obugqweswe ezandleni zabantu abambalwa. Abatyali-zimali bavune ingeniso entle kule minyaka imbalwa idlulileyo, kodwa okwangoku imivuzo kunye nepenshoni iphantsi. Ngale ndlela, ukungavisisani phakathi kobuhlwempu obugqithisileyo nobutyebi buye balola. Kwangaxeshanye, amaqela ezopolitiko aye agunyaziswa. Iimeko ezifanayo zezopolitiko ziveliswa apha esizibonileyo ngaphambi kokuvela kukaHugo Chavez eVenezuela, okanye e-Ecuador ngokusisigxina, okanye eBolivia. Ezi meko ziya kudala imeko yezopolitiko nentlalontle kwixesha elizayo.
NK: Uluntu lusijonga njani isivumelwano sokurhweba ngokukhululekileyo saseChile neMelika?
MC: Kukho amacandelo emisebenzi ajonge kakuhle kwisivumelwano. Bakholelwa into abaxelelwe ngamajelo eendaba, ukuba impumelelo, olu qoqosho lokuthumela ngaphandle, luya kuhluza ukusuka phezulu ukuya ezantsi. Kukho amacandelo oluntu angekho ncinane ngokwenani, athe axhamla ngandlelโ ithile kwimodeli yokuthumela ngaphandle. Umzekelo, malunga nekhredithi. Amakhadi etyala ayengekho apha ngaphambili. Kodwa namhlanje uninzi lwabantu baseChile, kwanabo bafumana imivuzo ephantsi, banayo. Siye sabona ukwanda kweeselfowuni. EChile kukho iiselfowuni ezizizigidi ezili-14, kwaye abemi bamalunga ne-16 lezigidi zabantu. Inkxaso yokuthumela ngaphandle imodeli iboniswe ngokucacileyo kwindawo yonyulo. Ukusukela ekupheleni kolawulo lobuzwilakhe lwePinochet ngo-1990, phakathi kwevoti yonyulo yeConcertacion kunye nelungelo, ngaphezulu kwe-90% yabantu baseChile bakhethe ukuxhasa le modeli. Kungenxa yokuba enye yezopolitiko kunye nentlalontle ayikaveli.
NK: Ibe yintoni inzuzo yalo mzekelo?
MC: Kubekho uphuculo olukhulu, ukukhula kwezonxibelelwano, iindlela, izikhululo zeenqwelomoya, amazibuko, kunye nawo onke amacandelo anxibelelene nokuthengisa ngaphandle.
NK: Ewe, isikhululo seenqwelomoya sinomtsalane!
MC: Ukuba uya ezilalini, isiqingatha seyure uphuma eSantiago, uya kufumana iifama zokuthumela ngaphandle kwezolimo. Kuye kwakho impumelelo ngaloo ngqiqo. Unyaka ngamnye iinkampani zibhalisa ukwanda kwimarike yemasheya.
NK: Ngaba likhona na ithuba lokuba iChile iphume kwisivumelwano sorhwebo lwasimahla ne-U.S.?
MC: Hayi, kwaye ngokwenene yonke imihla iChile isayina isivumelwano esitsha sorhwebo namanye amazwe.
NK: Ubona njani ukukhula kweChina xa uthetha ngokwezoqoqosho?
MC: I-China iya ibaluleka ngakumbi. Olunye umqondiso woku yinzuzo elindelekileyo yobhedu evela kwiintengiso eziya eTshayina, ezifikelela kwi-$ 500-600 yezigidi zeedola. I-China ihlawula kwangaphambili.
NK: Ithini imibutho yezentlalo malunga nokukhula kweprofayili yaseTshayina?
MC: Iintshukumo zoluntu azikhathali ngakwicala lemiba. Kukho iinkokeli zabasebenzi ezinovelwano ngeChina kuba zicinga ukuba izakuba nesimo sengqondo sentlonipho malunga nezinto zaseChile. Ndicinga ukuba bayaphazama. AmaTshayina enza ishishini ngesantya esifanayo kunye nokunqongophala kobugxwayiba njenge-United States.
NK: Bomelele kangakanani ubuntatheli bephiko lasekhohlo apha eChile?
MC: Kumabonakude akukho nto, asikho isikhululo esichaza njengesasekhohlo. Kukho isikhululo sikanomathotholo seQela lamaKomanisi, kwaye kukho izikhululo zikanomathotholo ezimbalwa eziqhubekayo. Kushicilelo kukho iinyanga ezimbini kuphela, Le minyaka, yeQela lamaKomanisi, kunye Inqaku lokugqibela, zombini zinokujikeleza okuphantsi. Asinapapasho kunye neengxaki zokusasaza amava. Kwi-intanethi kukho iyantlukwano eninzi kodwa eChile abantu abaninzi abanakho ukufikelela njengoko le isaqala apha.
NK: EVenezuela uChavez wenze uninzi lwemithombo yeendaba zikamabonwakude kwaye kukho umlo wolwazi oqhubekayo. Ngaba oko kunokwenzeka apha?
MC: (wathula ixesha elide). Uthi, apha?
NK: Ewe (ehleka). Wothuswa ngumbuzo wam?
MC: EVenezuela, unaloo meko kuba kukho urhulumente ojongene namajelo eendaba abucala. Apha, amajelo eendaba achongwa ngokupheleleyo norhulumente. Urhulumente yiConcertacion, kodwa iqela labelana ngamandla nelungelo. Amajelo eendaba okwangoku asekunene ngokupheleleyo.
NK: Inamandla kangakanani i-CNN kunye nemithombo yeendaba yase-US apha eChile?
MC: Yomelele kakhulu, kodwa phakathi kwabaphakathi nabaphezulu abaphakathi.
NK: Ngaba iTelesur (isikhululo seendaba sesathelayithi sixhaswa ngemali yiVenezuela) ikhazimlisiwe apha, kwaye ingakhuphisana?
MC: Kukho imimandla ethile yelizwe, umzekelo embindini, apho ungafumana khona iTelesur kunye neTV yaseCuba. Kungenjalo nangona kunjalo, ngabantu kuphela abanokufikelela kwi-Direct TV abanokuyibukela iTelesur. Udinga i-eriyali yoluhlu olude.
NK: Wakhe wanxibelelana nonozakuzaku waseMelika apha ngelixa usebenza Inqaku lokugqibela?
MC: Zange ndakhe ndadibana nabo, ndilindele ixesha elinye xa ndifaka isicelo se-visa yokundwendwela ePuerto Rico. Ndaliwa. Kodwa, i-ambassy iyabhalisa Inqaku lokugqibela (ehleka).
NK: Kubonakala kum ngathi ubudlelwane beChile ne-US bunzima?
MC: Andiqondi ukuba i-Chile iye yagxeka i-U.S. ngendlela ethe ngqo njengoko abanye oorhulumente baseLatin America benzile ngaphambili. I-Chile ibekwe apha ngengozi yejografi, kwi-Southern Cone yaseLatin America. Ngaphandle kweMfazwe yase-Iraq, umgaqo-nkqubo wangaphandle waseChile ichongiwe ngokupheleleyo kunye nemidla yase-US kunye neYurophu.
NK: Udlanโ indlebe noChavez, uthini umbono wakho kwaye ucinga ukuba kuya kwenzeka ntoni ukuya kuthi ga kubudlelwane baseChile baseVenezuela?
MC: Ngo-1994 ndadibana noChavez eChile. Ebekukhenketho lwaseLatin America kwaye eChile akukho mntu wayefuna ukumamkela. Akukho qela lasekhohlo lalifuna ukuzimanya naye ngenxa yokuba wayenomfanekiso wokuba ngumlweli wobhukuqo-mbuso. Kodwa thina Inqaku lokugqibela wadlanโ indlebe naye. Saya kwihotele yakhe kwaye senza amaphepha amabini. Kwezi ntsuku ndinoluvo oluphezulu kakhulu ngoChavez. Ndiyacinga ukuba uqolile ngokwezimvo zakhe zezopolitiko, uzenze zaqina ngakumbi, zaqina ngakumbi. Ngamanye amaxesha engqondweni yam usebenzisa intetho engqongqo xa echaza iinkokeli zamanye amazwe kwaye akacingi ngaphambi kokuba enze. Ukuya kuthi ga kubudlelwane baseChile baseVenezuela, andilindelanga lukhulu. Ndicinga ukuba eyona nto umntu anokuyithemba kukuba i-Chile ingagcina isimo sengqondo sentlonipho ngaku- Venezuela. Kodwa, andiqondi ukuba iya kuba nobubele. Mhlawumbi ubuhlobo phakathi kwezopolitiko eziphezulu ezifana ne-Bachelet kunye ne-Chavez, kodwa oku akuyi kunabela kubudlelwane obunzulu phakathi koorhulumente babini.
U-Nikolas Kozloff ngumbhali we UHugo Chavez: Ioyile, iPolitiko, kunye noMcelimngeni kwi-U.S. (Palgrave, 2006). Ngoku ubhala enye incwadi, Indlela entsha yoMzantsi Melika, nayo iza kukhutshwa nguPalgrave ngo-2008.
UManuel Cabies unguMlawuli we Inqaku lokugqibela, iphephandaba laseChile eliphuma kabini ngenyanga.
I-ZNetwork ixhaswa ngemali kuphela ngesisa sabafundi bayo.
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