Congressman John Conyers, D-Michigan, akatanga basa rake muImba yeVamiriri muna 1964, izvo zvinomuita wechipiri wepamusoro nhengo mukamuri. Akapedza nguva yakawanda yenguva yake achiedza kuchengetedza Congressional basa rekutarisira. Aive chikamu chedare reImba raiferefeta kupomerwa kweMutungamiri Nixon. Nguva pfupi yadarika, akatarisisa zvisizvo musarudzo dzemuna 2004, uye akamhan'arira mutungamiri wenyika nekuda kwenzira yake isingaite yekusaina Budget Resolution yake ichangoburwa (Bush akasaina shanduro mbiri dzakasiyana, izvo, Conyers anotenda, zvinopesana nemutemo).
Nguva pfupi yadarika, mumiriri wedare, velvet-izwi ndiro zita muCongress rinonyanya kubatanidzwa nekusundidzira mhosva, iyo Nancy Pelosi, mutungamiri wevashoma veImba, akati anopokana. Aive Conyers akadaidzira komiti yakakosha kuti iferefete mhosva dzisingakanganwike "zvese kubva mukupomerwa kwewiretap zvisiri pamutemo, kushandiswa zvisirizvo kwehungwaru nyika isati yapinda muIraq, kushandiswa kwekurwadzisa Abu Ghraib neGuantanamo, uye kudzorera kwehutongi hwavo kune vatsoropodzi vakaita sa Joseph Wilson.
Kana iwe ukaverenga blog yaConyers, unogona kunzwa hasha (anofarira 'kushinga') kuBush manejimendi, maRepublicans muCongress, uye vezvenhau. Uye anotaura pachena kune kukanganisa. MuMichael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11, aive Conyers akabvuma kuti maCongress haagare aine nguva yekuverenga zvavanovhotera. Asi kumuteerera achitaura kunzwa inzwi rine mukurumbira. Ndakamubvunzurudza nguva pfupi yadarika parunhare.
Ndinoshamisika kana zviri kuedza kuitwa ne[veRepublicans] kuona kuti hapazove nekutongwa kwemhosva zvingave zvichikanganisa vagari vakawanda, kutaura chokwadi kwauri.Guernica: Ndiudze nezvekomiti yawakatora. akanzi aferefete mhosva dzisingabviswe nemutungamiri wenyika. Ndezvipi zviitiko zvakakosha zvauri kutarisa?
John Conyers: Iyi inzira yechinyakare yekuita utariri [iyo] inogadzira komiti yakasarudzwa ichitevera Sam Ervin-style modhi yakashandiswa panguva yezviitiko zveNixon zvechizvarwa chakapfuura. Zvatakaita [naBush] takatanga nekuongorora mibvunzo iyi isu pachedu. Magweta edu akapedza mwedzi yakawanda achishanda pamushumo wakashamisa avo vakauona, uye yakanga iri muunganidzwa wekutanga wemamwe ematambudziko makuru atakava nawo neutongi uhwu maererano [dzavo] nemutemo.
Takatarisa mibvunzo yakaita sekuti riinhi hurongwa hwekuramwa mabasa huchikwanisika, uye kana mawaya asina mawaya anofanirwa kubvumidzwa munyika ino uye kana achikwanisa kubvumidzwa pasina kupinda mudare. Paive netsanangudzo yakawanda, kunyanya paDowning Street memo '' pakati pevanhu vaiziva nezvazvo '' nezve kana paine kunyengedzwa kwehungwaru isati yatanga. Izvo zvinomutsa mubvunzo wekuti tinopinda sei muhondo uye kana mutungamiri wenyika akambomirira kuti Congress imupe simba. Uye pane mubvunzo waAbu Ghraib nedzimwe nzvimbo, mubvunzo wekutambudza.
Hutongi uhwu hwakanyatsoita zvinoenderana neGeneva Courts maererano nekurwadziswa kwevanhu vanotorwa sevasungwa kana avo vanopihwa zita rekuti 'varwi vevavengi'" nevamwe vanhu? Vamwe vanongonzi magandanga uye hatizive kuti varipi. Kuti nyika ino inova mucherechedzo wedemocracy yebumbiro remitemo kuti ifambe-fambe nerudzi urwu rwechitsotsi'ยฆ Ndiri kungoedza kuona kuti hatirege nyaya dzakawanda dzichipfuura muCongress inotongwa nemaRepublicans vachiramba. tarisa mune chero zvayo. Zvinoda kuti tinyatsowana mhinduro dzakajeka pamusoro peizvi.
Tinotarisana nekutambudzwa here? Uyu mubvunzo unokosha, uye tinofanira kuziva izvozvo. Uye pakupedzisira pane mubvunzo wekuti manejimendi akatsiva zvisizvo here kune vanoishora. Uye komiti iyi kwandiri ndipo [pa] pakakodzera kuti ongororo iyi iitike.
Guernica: MaRepublican pavakasimudza fungidziro yekupokana semhere mhere, maDemocrats saNancy Pelosi vese asi vakavimbisa kuti havangatsvage mhosva kana vaizotora imba yeCongress. Pane kusawirirana here pakati pemaDemocrats pamusoro pekuti vatevedze impeachment zvachose?
John Conyers: Handisati ndambotsvaga kupomerwa kwemutungamiri wenyika. Chokwadi chiripo ndechekuti kana kutyorwa uku kwakaitika, vanogona kunge vari zvikonzero zvekupara mhosva dzakanyanya uye misikanzwa. Asi komiti yakasarudzwa inogona kuverengera sezvainogona kuve yekupomera kana tikanyatsopinda mune chinhu chakadai. Saka hazvina kuita sekuti kune mhomho yepro-impeachment inopesana nemhomho yevanopikisa. Asi handifunge kuti ndaizozvisiya zvangu kuti ndienderere mberi ndisina kubatana nehutungamiriri "asi ndichaita izvi ndichishanda pamwe navo.
Guernica: Kana maRepublican akachengeta kutonga kwevese imba yeCongress, mukuona kwako, nhaurirano iyi yekutarisa ichaparara here?
John Conyers: Zvakanaka, hapana mumwe wedu anoziva, asi zvinoita sekunge tichadzosa Imba. Ndizvo zvinotaurwa nesarudzo dzandinoverenga. Zvinotaridza kunge mukurumbira wemutungamiri wenyika waramba uchidzika. Inokwira zvakare uye zvakare asi inozodzokera pasi. Ini handisi kuedza kuyera zvatinoita maererano nechinangwa chezvematongerwo enyika. Zvandiri kuita izvozvi ndizvo zvandaizoita dai taiva kutungamira, [pamwe chete] zvandaizoita dai tisina kutungamira. Chero zvazvingaite ndingadai ndakaunganidza ruzivo urwu. Ndakashanda pamibvunzo yekupomerwa kwemutungamiri wenyika kupfuura vanhu vazhinji muCongress. Uye zvinoratidzika kwandiri kuti kuunganidza chokwadi chiri nyore kwazvo "uye hazvifanirwe kunyanya kunakidza" maitiro. Ndiri kuita kuti vanhu vakawanda vandishevedze uye vachindikurudzira kuenda kumberi kupfuura zvandaimboita. Ini ndinoshamisika kana izvo [maRepublicans] zviri kuyedza kuita kuti ive nechokwadi chekuti hapazove nekupomerwa mhosva kungave kuchidzosera kumashure vagari vazhinji, kuva vakatendeseka kwauri.
Pandakaita musangano nenyanzvi dzangu panyaya iyi, mumwe akati semaonero ake uyu ndiye mutungamiri wenyika wekutanga kubvuma mhosva isingarambiki.Guernica: Michael Ratner muThe Nation nguva pfupi yadarika akataura nezvesarudzo yakawana kuti 51% yevaAmerica vanotenda Mutungamiriri wenyika anofanirwa kupomerwa mhosva kana akanyepa nezveIraq, zvichienzaniswa ne28% yevaAmerica vaitenda kuti Mutungamiri Clinton aifanira kunge akamiswa pamberi penyaya yaMonica Lewinsky. Sarudzo nemaonero everuzhinji zvinoita sei pakuita izvi?
John Conyers: Chekutanga, ndinofunga kuti, kune veRepublicans, sarudzo dzinotamba zvakanyanya. Chavanotya ndechekuti nhamba idzi dziri kuramba dzichikura uye dziri kuzonyengerera dzimwe nhengo dzeCongress, kunyanya muCongress inotevera, kuti vatore matanho. Zvese zvandiri kuedza kuita '"uye handisi kufambiswa nesarudzo'"ndiro zvandinofunga ibasa rakazara. Handizivi kuti ndingatsanangura sei kuti ndakagara nehutongi hwese uhu, hwave nemasimba akawanda anowira pasi pasi pemukuru-mukuru, asi iwe uchigona kubvunza kana ari mutungamiriri mukuru wekurwisa hugandanga'ยฆ Kuti ataure kuti zvizhinji zvezvinhu izvi, izvo zvisingawanikwe muBumbiro reMitemo kana mitemo yenyika uye zvisina kupihwa neCongress, zviri mukati medunhu rake zvinongotsamwisa vanhu vazhinji kuti vaite chaizvo izvo [maRepublicans] anotya kuti zvingaitike. : kureva, mutungamiri anogona kuguma mumvura inopisa.
Asi ndinofanira kuwana mhinduro dzemibvunzo yangu. Iyi mibvunzo yakakomba ichaongororwa nekupindurwa. Pakave nekuongororwa kwakawanda kwavari, asi kwete muImba yeVamiriri uye kwete muDare reJudiciary. Zvese zvandiri kuyedza kuita pasina pundutso yekuvhota, ndisingayedze kusvetuka pfuti' โIni ndinofunga kupomera mhosva chinhu chakakomba, chisingawanzo shandiswa chinofanirwa kupinzwa nehungwaru sezvinobvira. Tinofanira kungwarira zvikuru kufamba munzvimbo iyi. Uye ndizvo zvandiri kuda kuita. Uye saka hyping iyo nevanhu vanoda kuti tisatarise iyi mibvunzo ndinofunga ine reverse mhedzisiro.
Guernica: Chimwe chezvinhu zvaunotaura pawebhusaiti yako sechikonzero chekomiti yakakosha pamusoro pekupomedzerwa chirongwa chirongwa chekuongorora mudzimba, icho anodomwa naBush kuti atungamire CIA anotsigira uye kunyange kutungamira kuNSA. Pavakabvunzwa nezvechirongwa chekushandisa wiretapping muna Ndira, Mutungamiri Bush akati, โhapana kupokana mupfungwa dzangu kuti zviri pamutemo.โ Akati zvakare โchakagadzirirwa kuchengetedza rusununguko rwevanhu, uye zvakakodzera.โ Akatotaura kuti kutaura โnezvenzira iyo chirongwa chinoshanda 'ยฆ chichabatsira muvengi.' Ndinozvitora haubvumirani nazvo?
John Conyers: Zvakanaka, tarisa, kutaura nezveBumbiro remitemo nemutungamiri wenyika dzimwe nguva ibasa risingabatsiri. Pandakaita musangano nenyanzvi dzangu pane izvi, mumwe akati semaonero ake uyu ndiye mutungamiri wekutanga akambobvuma mhosva isingabviswe. Asi [mutungamiri wenyika] akataura kuti ari pamusoro pemutemo, kuti mutemo weFISA haushande kwaari, kuti hapana mitemo inodzora izvi. Asi munhu wese muAmerica ane zvakavanzika zvake zvakachengetedzwa, uye haafunge kuti ndizvo zvazviri. Akatora mhiko yechigaro chekuchengetedza nekudzivirira mutemo. Anodziviswa kubuda kunze kwehukuru hwesimba rake. Tine hurongwa hwehutatu hwehurumende, asi Congress yakakundwa zvachose. Uye dzimwe nguva vezvenhau vanofurirwa munzira iyo mutungamiri wenyika anoda kuti vafambe nayo.
Zvese zvandiri kutaura ndezvekuti ndinofanira kuita zvandinofanira kuita. Asi kana akarurama, saka havafaniri kunetseka pamusoro pekuti tine komiti yakasarudzwa pamubvunzo uyu kana kwete. Nekuti ipapo zvinozoratidzwa nekusimbiswa kuti zvinotenderwa kuti mutungamiri wenyika abate vagari pasina rubatsiro rwedare redzimhosva kana mvumo yeFISA. Idzo dzichava nhau huru kuvanhu vazhinji. Asi isu hatigone kungozvisiya sekuti 'rimwe bato rakataura' uye 'rimwe bato rakapindura' mamiriro.
Ndinoda kufambira mberi nenzira isingazopomerwi mhosva dzebato.Guernica: Pane nguva iyoyo muFahrenheit 9/11 pawakareurura kuna Michael Moore zvandinofungidzira kuti vazhinji vedu tisiri muCongress takanga tisina kufunga, izvo Usaverenga gwaro rega rega raunovhotera. Iyo Bush Administration yakakupikisa kuti ufungezve izvozvo zvishoma?
John Conyers: Avo vari muBush Administration ndivo vanoita kuti tisakwanisa kuverenga zvose. Vakatsiva mutemo wePatriot Act wakanga wapasiswa nemubvumirano neDare reJudiciary usiku hwose muKomiti yeMitemo, uye pakanga paine makopi maviri akabuda'โ rimwe kudivi reRepublican mamwe mazana emapeji akareba, uye rimwe kudivi reDemocratic. akati vhota pazviri. Haana kungoverengwa chete, asi aisatombonzwisiswa zvizere.
Guernica: Wambotaura nezve chiitiko chako nenyaya dzekupomerwa mhosva. Ini ndoziva kuti mu'70s wakagara padare kuti umhanye Mutungamiri Nixon. Iwe unoona kufanana muhukuru kana dhigirii pakati pemamiriro maviri aya?
John Conyers: Zvinongondibaya moyo kuti mutungamiri wechimakumi mana nematatu aenda zvakanyanya kupfuura zvimwe zvezvinhu zvatainetseka nazvo panguva yekubata kwaMutungamiri Nixon. Ndiri kuedza kuona kuti ruzivo rwedu rwakaita sei rwakadhonzwa pamwechete kuburikidza nekushanda nesimba kwevashandi vedu. Ini handina kugadzirira izvozvi kudaidza Nixon mutungamiri akatyora mabasa ake ari muhofisi zvakanyanya kana zvishoma pane Bush. Asi kuenzanisa kwave kutoitwa.
Tine mutungamiri pano uyo akakombamira sezviri pachena kutsiva kune vatsoropodzi nenzira ine njodzi; [pamwe chete] nekutarisana nekurwadziswa, kushandisa njere izvo zvinotitungamira kuti tisarudze kuenda kuhondo, [uye kuona] kana vagari uye vangani vavo vanogona kubatwa newaya pane kuwana mvumo kubva kudare zviri nyore'" kunyangwe kudzokorora'" iripo. Saka, ndinoda kufambira mberi nenzira isingazopomerwe chero ipi zvayo yebato.
ZNetwork inopihwa mari chete kuburikidza nerupo rwevaverengi vayo.
dhoneta