Mavhidhiyo ese matatu ane kubvunzurudzwa kwaChris Hedges naNoam Chomsky akaiswa pazasi peichi positi.
CHRIS HEDGES, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Ngatitangei neyakajairwa paradigm iri mukati meRevolution Revolution, iyo yakataurwa neve theorists kubva kuMarx kuenda kuKropotkin kuenda kuProudhon uye kwauri iwe, kuti unovaka kuziva pakati pevashandi mukati mekirasi yekugadzira, uye pakupedzisira iwe. tungamira kune rudzi rwekuzvimiririra chinzvimbo uko vashandi vanogona kudzora kugadzirwa kwavo.
Isu tave kurarama muhurongwa, hurongwa hwepasi rose, uko vazhinji veboka revashandi munyika dzemaindasitiri seUnited States vashandi vebasa. Isu takadzokera kuDickensian system apo avo vakanyatsogadzira vanogara mumamiriro ezvinhu anotanga kutevedzera kanenge nhapwa-uye, ndinofunga, sezvamanyora, munzvimbo dzakaita sekumaodzanyemba kweChina chokwadi varanda [basa]. Ndeipi paradigm itsva yekuramba? Iwe unoziva, tinodzidza sei kubva kune yekare uye kutarisana nezvitsva?
NOAM CHOMSKY, MUTAURIRI UYE MUPOROFITA โโWEzvematongerwo enyika: Zvakanaka, ndinofunga tinogona kutora zvidzidzo zvakawanda zvakanaka kubva panguva yekutanga yeRevolution Revolution. Kwaive, hongu, kare muEngland, asi ngatitorei kuno kuUnited States. Iyo Industrial Revolution yakatanga iko kuno, kumabvazuva kweMassachusetts, pakati pezana ramakore re19. Iyi yaive nguva apo varimi vakazvimiririra vaive vachipinzwa muhurongwa hwemaindasitiri - varume nevakadzi, sezvineiwo, vakadzi vekumapurazi, vanonzi vasikana vemufekitori - uye vakazvivenga zvakanyanya. Yakanga iri nguva yokudhinda yakasununguka zvikuru, yakawanda zvikurusa munhau yenyika. Paiva nemagazini akasiyana-siyana, emarudzi, ebasa, kana mamwewo. Uye paunoaverenga, anonakidza chaizvo.
Vanhu vaipinzwa muhurongwa hwemaindasitiri vaizviona sekurwiswa kwehunhu hwavo, pakodzero dzavo sevanhu. Vaive vanhu vakasununguka vaimanikidzwa kupinda mune yavaiti muhoro uranda, uhwo hwavaiona sehusina kunyanya kusiyana neuranda hwekutaura. Muchokwadi, aya aive maonero akakurumbira zvekuti yaive sirogani yeRepublican Party, kuti musiyano uripo pakati pekushandira muhoro uye kuve muranda ndewekuti kushandira muhoro kunofungidzirwa kwechinguvana - munguva pfupi unenge wakasununguka. . Kunze kwaizvozvo, havana kusiyana.
Uye vakatsamwira zvikuru idi rokuti gadziriro yeindasitiri yakanga ichitotora upenyu hwavo hwakapfuma hwetsika. Uye hupenyu hwetsika hwakapfuma. Iwe unoziva, pane ikozvino zvidzidzo zveBritish working class neAmerican working class, uye vaive chikamu chetsika dzepamusoro dzezuva racho. Chaizvoizvo, ndakarangarira izvi kunonoka sema1930 nemhuri yangu, munoziva, rudzi rwevasingashande-kirasi, uye vakati, izvi zviri kubviswa kwatiri, tiri kumanikidzwa kuve chimwe chinhu sevaranda. Vakaita nharo kuti kana uri, toti, mufambi, mhizha, uye ukatengesa chigadzirwa chako, uri kutengesa zvawakagadzira. Kana uri muhoro, uri kuzvitengesa, zvinova zvinogumbura zvikuru. Vaishora wavaidaidza kuti mweya mutsva wenguva: kuwana pfuma, uchikanganwa zvese asi iwe pachako. Zvinonzwika kujairika.
Uye kwaive kwakakura zvakanyanya. Yakasanganiswa neyakaomarara kwazvo demokrasi munhoroondo yeAmerica, yekutanga populist kufamba-varimi vakanyanya. Zvakatanga muTexas, zvakapararira kuMidwest-boka guru revarimi vaida kuzvisunungura kubva muhutongi hwemabhanga ekumaodzanyemba uye macapitalist, vakomana vaitengesa misika, munoziva, vakavamanikidza kutengesa zvavakagadzira nechikwereti uye. vasvine nechikwereti zvichingodaro. Vakaenderera mberi nekugadzira mabhanga avo, macooperatives avo. Vakatanga kubatana nesangano reKnights of Labor-hombe revashandi iro rakafunga kuti, sekutaura kwavo, avo vanoshanda mumagiyo vaifanira kuve varidzi vavo, kuti inofanira kunge iri nzanga yakasununguka, ine gutsaruzhinji.
Aya aive mafambiro ane simba chose. Pakazosvika ma1890, munoziva, vashandi vakanga vachitora maguta uye vachiashandisa muWestern Pennsylvania. Homestead yaive nyaya yakakurumbira. Bva, vakadzvinyirirwa nesimba. Zvakatora nguva. Rudzi rwekurova kwekupedzisira kwaive kutyisa kwaWoodrow Wilson mushure meHondo Yenyika Yekutanga, iyo yakapwanya bato revashandi.
Panguva imwe cheteyo, mukuvamba kwezana ramakore rechi 19, vezvebhizimisi vakaziva, mose muri muviri muEngland neUnited States, kuti rusununguko rwakakwana rwakanga rwawanwa zvokuti vaisagonazve kudzora vanhu kupfurikidza bedzi nechisimba. Vaifanira kutendeukira kunzira itsva dzokudzora. Zvaiva pachena kwaiva kudzora mafungiro nemafungiro. Ndiwo mabviro eindasitiri huru yekudyidzana neveruzhinji, iyo yakanyatso kutsaurirwa kudzora pfungwa nemaitiro.
Chekutanga-chaive chikamu chehurumende. Komisheni yekutanga yehurumende yaive Briteni Ministry of Information. Izvi zvatora nguva refu Orwell asati-aifanira kuigadzira. Saka Bazi reRuzivo raive nechinangwa charo chekudzora pfungwa dzevanhu vepasirese, asi kunyanya pfungwa dzevazivi vekuAmerica, nechikonzero chakanaka kwazvo: vaiziva kuti kana vakagona kunyengedza vazivi veAmerica kuti vatsigire mutemo weBritain, vaigona. shanda zvakanyanya mukumanikidza icho pahuwandu hweUnited States. MaBritish, hongu, vaive neshungu dzekupinza maAmerican muhondo nehuwandu hwepacifist. Woodrow Wilson akahwina sarudzo dzemuna 1916 aine sirogani "Rugare rusina Kukunda". Uye ivo vaifanira kutyaira vanhu vepacifist muhuwandu hwaivenga zvakanyanya zvinhu zvese zveGerman, vaida kubvarura maGerman. Boston Symphony Orchestra yaisakwanisa kutamba Beethoven. Unoziva. Uye vakabudirira.
Wilson akagadza mumwe waanoshanda naye kuBazi Remashoko anonzi Committee on Public Information. Iwe unoziva, zvakare, unogona kufungidzira kuti chaive chii. Uye vangangonzwa, pamwe nemazvo, kuti vakabudirira kuita shanduko huru iyi yemaonero kune chikamu chehuwandu uye kutyaira vanhu vepacifist kupinda, munoziva, vanopisa tsitsi.
Uye vanhu vekomisheni vakadzidza chidzidzo. Mumwe wavo aive Edward Bernays, uyo akazotsvaga-mukuru mukuru weindasitiri yehukama neveruzhinji. Mumwe akanga ari Walter Lippman, uyo akanga ari nyanzvi inofambira mberi inofambira mberi yezana ramakore rechi20. Vakatora chidzidzo chimwe chete vari vaviri, uye vakataura saizvozvo.
Zvidzidzo zvaive zvekuti isu tine izvo Lippmann akadana "hunyanzvi hutsva" mudemokrasi, "mvumo yekugadzira". Ndipo ini naEd Herman takatora mutsara kubva. Kuna Bernays yaive "engineering yemvumo". Pfungwa iyi yaive yekuti vashoma vakangwara, izvo zveshuwa us, tinofanira kuona kuti tinokwanisa kufambisa zvinhu zvehurumende, nyaya dzehurumende, hupfumi, nezvimwewo. Tiri ivo chete vanokwanisa kuzviita, hongu. Uye tinofanira kuvaโndiri kutauraโโtisina kutsikwa-tsikwa nokuomba kweboka rakavhiringidzikaโ, โvanhu vekunze vasingazive uye vanonetsaโโruzhinji rwevanhu. Vane basa. Basa ravo nderekuva "vaoni", kwete vatori vechikamu. Uye makore mashoma ega ega vanobvumidzwa kusarudza pakati pemumwe weโvarume vane basaโ, us.
Uye John Dewey denderedzwa akatora maonero akafanana. Dewey akachinja pfungwa dzake makore akati wandei gare gare, kune chikwereti chake, asi panguva iyoyo, Dewey nedenderedzwa rake vainyora izvo-vachitaura nezveHondo Yenyika Yekutanga, kuti iyi yaive hondo yekutanga munhoroondo isina kurongeka uye kushandiswa nehondo. vemauto nevezvematongerwo enyika uye zvichingodaro, asi zvakanyatsorongwa nekuverenga zvine musoro kwe "varume vakangwara venharaunda", kureva. us, uye takazvifunga nokungwarira uye takasarudza kuti ichi ndicho chinhu chine musoro kuita, nokuda kwemarudzi ose ezvikonzero zvakanaka.
Uye vaizvikudza zvikuru.
Pane vanhu vaipesana. Senge, Randolph Bourne haana kubvumirana. Akadzingwa. Haana kukwanisa kunyora mumajenari eDeweyite. Haana kuurayiwa, munoziva, asi akangoiswa kunze.
Uye kana iwe ukatarisa kutenderera pasirese, zvaive zvakangofanana. Vakachenjera kumativi ose vakanga vakazvipira kune chinangwa chenyika-mativi ose, maGermany, British, kwese.
Paiva nevashoma, vashomanana vaipikisa, saBertrand Russell, akanga ari mujeri; Karl Liebknecht naRosa Luxembourg, vari mujeri; Randolph Bourne, vakasarirwa; Eugene Debs, ari mutirongo nekuda kwekushinga kubvunza hukuru hwehondo. Muchokwadi, Wilson akamuvenga neshungu zvekuti paakazozivisa kuregererwa, Debs akasiiwa, munoziva, aifanira kumirira Warren Harding kuti amusunungure. Uye ndiye akanga ari mukuru wechibharo munyika. Aive mumiriri wemutungamiri wenyika, Socialist Party, zvichingodaro.
Asi chidzidzo chakabuda ndechekuti isu tinotenda kuti iwe unogona uye zvechokwadi unofanirwa kudzora veruzhinji, uye kana isu tisingakwanise kuzviita nechisimba, tinozviita nekugadzira mvumo, nehuinjiniya hwekubvuma. Kubva ipapo kunouya indasitiri hombe yehukama neveruzhinji, indasitiri yakakura yakatsaurirwa kune izvi.
Sezvineiwo, zvakare yakatsaurirwa kukanganisa misika, chokwadi chisingawanzo kucherechedzwa asi chiri pachena. Bhizinesi rinovenga misika. Havadiโuye unogona kuzviona zvakajeka. Misika, kana iwe ukatora kosi yehupfumi, yakavakirwa pane zvine musoro, vatengi vane ruzivo vanoita sarudzo dzine musoro. Batidza terevhizheni wotarisa kushambadza kwaunotanga kuona. Iko kuedza kugadzira vatengi vasina ruzivo vanoita sarudzo dzisina musoro. Ndiyo pfungwa yese yeindasitiri huru yekushambadza. Asi zvakare kuedza kudzora uye kushandisa pfungwa. Uye zvinotora mafomu akasiyana mumasangano akasiyana. Vezvenhau vanozviita neimwe nzira, masangano edzidzo anozviita neimwe nzira, uye hurongwa hwedzidzo chikamu chakakosha pazviri.
Izvi hazvisi zvitsva. Pane chaizvo rondedzero inonakidza na-Orwell's, iyo isinganyanyi kuzivikanwa nekuti haina kuburitswa. Ndiyo nhanganyaya ku Animal Farm. Musumo, anozvitaurira kuvanhu veEngland uye anoti, haufaniri kunzwa uchizviruramisa zvakanyanya kuverenga uku kutsvinya kwemuvengi wehudzvinyiriri, nokuti muEngland yakasununguka, pfungwa dzinogona kudzvinyirirwa pasina kushandiswa kwechisimba. Uye haatauri zvakawanda nezvazvo. Chaizvoizvo ane mitsara miviri. Anoti chimwe chikonzero ndechokuti muchina wokudhinda โndewavarume vakapfumaโ vane chikonzero chiri chose chokusada kuti mifungo yakati ibude.
Asi chikonzero chechipiri, uye chinonyanya kukosha mumaonero angu, dzidzo yakanaka, zvekuti kana wakaenda kuzvikoro zvese zvakanaka, unoziva, Oxford, Cambridge, zvichingodaro, wapinza mauri kunzwisisa. kuti pane zvimwe zvinhu zvaisaita kutaura-uye handifungi kuti akaenda kure zvakakwana: haaigona kuita kufunga. Uye izvo zvakapamhama pakati pemakirasi akadzidza. Ndicho chikonzero nei vachinyanya kutsigira simba rehurumende uye mhirizhonga yenyika, uye pamwe nezvimwe zvikwaniriso, sekuti, VaObama vanoonekwa semushoropodzi wekupinda kweIraq. Sei? Nekuti aifunga kuti kwaive kukanganisa. Izvi zvinomuisa padanho rehunhu semumwe mukuru mukuru weNazi aifunga kuti kumberi kwechipiri kwaive kukanganisa kwakasarudzika - unofanira kutanga warova England. Ndiko kunonzi kushoropodza.
Uye dzimwe nguva zvinenge zvisinganzwisisike. Semuenzaniso, kwaingova nekudzokorora mukati Iyo New York Times Bhuku Rekuongorora yebhuku idzva raGlenn Greenwald rakanyorwa naMichael Kinsley, uye rakamushora zvakanyanya se-kunyanya kuuraya munhu. Hapana chaakataura chine musoro. Asi Kinsley akataura kuti hazvina musoro kufunga kuti kune kudzvinyirirwa mune zvenhau muUnited States, nekuti tinogona kunyora zvakajeka uye kushoropodza chero chinhu. Uye anogona, asi zvino unofanira kutarisa zvaanotaura, uye zvinonakidza chaizvo.
Mumakore ekuma1980, apo nyaya huru yenhau dzemunharaunda yaiva hutsinye hukuru hweUnited States muCentral America-dzaityisa; Ndinoreva kuti, hazvina kuratidzwa saizvozvo, asi ndizvo zvakanga zvichiitikaโKinsley rakanga riri izwi rekuruboshwe paterevhizheni. Uye paiva nezviitiko zvinonakidza. Pane imwe nguva, US Southern Command, iyo yaimhanya-iwe unoziva, yakanga iri mutariri wezviito izvi-yakapa mirairo kuuto remagandanga ravaimhanya muNicaragua, rainzi Contras-uye vakanga vari mauto emagandanga-vakavapa. kuraira ku-vakati "kwete (...) kudzinga nemaSandinistas", zvichireva kuti dzivisa mauto eNicaragua, uye kurwisa zvinangwa zvisina kudzivirirwa semakorasi ezvekurima uye, munoziva, makiriniki ehutano nezvimwe zvakadaro. Uye vaigona kuzviita, nekuti vaive mabhunu ekutanga munhoroondo kuva nemidziyo yekutaurirana yepamusoro, munoziva, makomputa zvichingodaro. IUS, iyo CIA, yakangodzora mhepo zvachose, kuti vatumire rairo kumauto emagandanga vachivaudza nzira yekunzvenga mauto eNicaragua uye kurwisa vanhu vasina kudzivirirwa.
Zvakanaka, izvi zvakataurwa; munoziva, haina kushambadzwa, asi yakataurwa. Uye Americas Watch, iyo yakazove chikamu cheHuman Rights Watch, yakaita kuratidzira. Uye Michael Kinsley akapindura. Akashora Americas Watch nekuda kwemanzwiro avo. Iye akati, isu tinofanirwa kuziva kuti isu tinofanirwa kubvuma pragmatic criterion. Tinofanira kubvunza-chimwe chinhu chakaita seizvi-akadaro, tinofanira kuenzanisa kuwanda kweropa nenhamo zvakadururwa mukati nekubudirira kwezvakabuda mukubura democracy-yatinoti democracy. Uye kana ikasangana neiyo pragmatic criterion, saka kurwiswa kwehugandanga kunopesana nezvinangwa zvevagari kuri pamutemo-izvo hazvishamise maonero kwaari. Ndiye mupepeti we The New Republic. The New Republic, iyo inonzi ibhuku rakasununguka, yaitaura kuti tinofanira kutsigira vaFascist vokuLatin America nokuti kune zvinhu zvinokosha kupfuura kodzero dzevanhu muEl Salvador, umo vakanga vachiponda makumi ezviuru zvevanhu.
Ndivo vane rusununguko. Uye, hongu, vanogona kupinda munhau pasina dambudziko. Uye vanorumbidzwa nokuda kwazvo, vachionekwa nokurumbidzwa. Zvese izvi chikamu chehurongwa hukuru hwe- munoziva, hazvisi kuti chero munhu anogara pamusoro uye kuronga zvachose; ndizvo chaizvo sezvakataurwa naOrwell: zvakaiswa mauri. Icho chikamu cheyakadzika indoctrination system inotungamira kune imwe nzira yekutarisa nyika uye kutarisa kune chiremera, iyo inoti, hongu, isu tinofanirwa kuve pasi pechiremera, isu tinofanirwa kutenda kuti takazvimiririra zvakanyanya uye takasununguka uye tinozvikudza. it. Chero bedzi tichiramba tiri mukati memiganhu, tiri. Edza kudarika miganhu iyoyo, wabuda.
HEDGES: Asi iyo system, hongu, inogara iripo. Asi chachinja ndechekuti isu hatichabudisi chero chinhu. Saka izvo zvatinotsanangura sekirasi yedu yekushanda iboka rebasa rinoshanda munzvimbo dzakaita seWalmart. Uye nzira dzinoshanda dzekuramba-kurova kwekugara, munoziva, kudzokera kumashure pakati pezana ramakore re19 nevakadzi muLowell-ndinofunga ndiwo- iwo maWobblies aive kumashure kwekuramwa kwemachira. Ndedzipi michina ikozvino? Uye ndinoziva kuti iwe wakanyora, sezvakaita vanarchist vakawanda, pamusoro pekukosha kweboka rekushanda rinodzora nzira dzekugadzira, kutora kutonga, uye une chirevo chikuru pamusoro pekuti, iwe unoziva, Lenin neBolsheviks vakatsauka. , ndinofunga, kwaivaโzvinova, chokwadi, chaizvoizvo, nokuti kwaiva kutonga kwepakati, kuparadza maSoviet. Tichifunga nezve chokwadi chekuti kugadzirwa kwaenda kunzvimbo dzakaita seBangladesh kana kumaodzanyemba kweChina, chii chichava paradigm izvozvi? Uye kupihwa, sezvaunonongedza, masimba ane simba ekuparadzira - uye iwe wakabata pane ikozvino chengetedzo uye yekutarisa mamiriro. Isu tiri vanhu vanotariswa zvakanyanya, vakatariswa, vakatorwa mifananidzo, vakateererwa munhoroondo yevanhu. Uye haugone kushandisa nyika rusununguko kana iwe uchibvisa zvakavanzika. Ndizvo hudzvanyiriri ndizvo. Ndeipi nzira yatinotora iko zvino, tichipihwa iyo paradigm yatinayo, iyo yakati siyanei, munoziva, izvo nyika ino yaive, zvechokwadi, muhafu yekutanga yezana ramakore rechi20?
NOAM CHOMSKY, MUTAURIRI UYE MUZVINHU WEzvematongerwo enyika: Ini ndinofunga zvakangofanana, kutaura chokwadi. Pfungwa yacho ichiri kufanira kunge iri yeKnights of Labor: avo vanoshanda muzvigayo vanofanira kuva vavo. Uye kune kwakawanda kugadzira kuri kuitika munyika, uye pamwe kuchave nezvakawanda, nekuda kwezvikonzero zvisingafadzi. Chinhu chimwe chiri kuitika iye zvino chinonakidza ndechekuti mitengo yemagetsi iri kudzika muUnited States nekuda kwekushandiswa kukuru kwemafuta ezvicherwa, izvo zvichaparadza vazukuru vedu, asi pasi pe, munoziva, hunhu hwe capitalist, calculus. ndiko kuti profit mangwana inodarika kuvapo kwevazukuru vako. Yakavakirwa pamasangano, saka, hongu, tiri kuwana mitengo yakaderera yesimba. Uye kana iwe ukatarisa bhizinesi rekudhinda, ivo, iwe unoziva, vanofarira kwazvo kuti isu tinogona kuderedza kugadzirwa muEurope nekuti tichave nemitengo yakaderera yemagetsi, uye nekudaro kugadzira kunodzoka kuno, uye isu tinogona kutoderedza. Kuedza kweEurope pakugadzira simba risingaperi nekuti isu tichava nemukana uyu.
Britain iri kutaura zvimwe chetezvo. Ndichangobva kuEngland. Pandakabva panhandare yendege, ndakaverenga The Daily Telegraph, munoziva, ndinoreva pepanhau. Musoro mukuru: England ichatanga kubira nyika yese, kunyange kupaza pasi pedzimba dzevanhu pasina mvumo yavo. Uye izvo zvinotitendera kuti tiparadze nharaunda nekukurumidza uye zvinounza kugadzira kumashure kuno.
Zvimwe chetezvo ndezvechokwadi neAsia. Kugadzira kuri kudzokera kumashure, kusvika pamwero, kuMexico, uye kunyangwe pano, sezvo mihoro iri kuwedzera muChina, pamwe nekuda kwekunetsekana kwevashandi. Kune matambudziko makuru evashandi muChina, akakura, kwese kwese, uye sezvo takabatanidzwa navo, tinogona kuvatsigira.
Asi kugadzira kuri kudzoka pano. Uye ese ari maviri ekugadzira uye maindasitiri ebasa anogona kuenda kune kuti avo vanoita basa vatore manejimendi uye varidzi nekutonga. Kutaura zvazviri, zviri kuitika. MuRust Belt yekare - munoziva, Indiana, Ohio, zvichingodaro-kune kukosha-kwete kukuru, asi kukura kwakakosha kwemabhizinesi evashandi. Idzo hadzisi dzakakura, asi dzakakura dzakatenderedza Cleveland nedzimwe nzvimbo.
Kumashure kunofadza. Muna 1977, US Steel, munoziva, vemarudzi akawanda, vakafunga kuvhara zvigayo zvavo muYoungstown, Ohio. Youngstown idhorobha resimbi, rakavakwa nevagadziri vesimbi, imwe yenzvimbo huru dzinogadzira simbi. Zvakanaka, mubatanidzwa wakaedza kutenga zvidyarwa kubva kuUS Steel. Vakaramba- mukuona kwangu, kunyanya pamitsetse yekirasi. Vanogona kunge vakatobatsirwa nazvo. Asi pfungwa yeindasitiri ine vashandi haina kunyanya kufadza vatungamiriri vemakambani, izvo zvinoreva vemabhanga zvichingodaro. Zvakaenda kumatare. Pakupedzisira, mubatanidzwa wakakundwa mumatare. Asi nerutsigiro rwakakurumbira rwakakwana, vangadai vakakunda.
Eya, boka revashandi nenzanga havana kukanda mapfumo pasi. Havana kukwanisa kuwana zvigayo zvesimbi, asi vakatanga kusimudzira makambani madiki evashandi. Zvino vakapararira mudunhu rose. Dzakakura. Uye zvinogona kuitika zvakanyanya uye zvakanyanya.
Uye zvimwe chete zvakaitika muWalmarts. Ndinoreva kuti, pane kuedza kukuru iko zvino, kwakakosha, kuronga vashandi vebasa-zvavanodaidza shamwari-mumaindasitiri ebasa. Uye maindasitiri aya, rangarira, anotsamira zvakanyanya pamutero wemutero mumhando dzese dzenzira. Ndinoreva, semuenzaniso, ngatitore, toti, Walmarts. Vanopinza zvinhu zvinogadzirwa kuChina, izvo zvinounzwa pano pazvikepe zvemidziyo zvakagadzirirwa uye kugadzirwa neUS Navy. Uye poindi nenzvimbo yaunotarisa, iwe unoona kuti nzira iyo sisitimu-iyo sisitimu yatava nayo ndeimwe iri anticapitalist zvakanyanya, zvakanyanya kudaro.
Ndinoreva, ndataura chinhu chimwe, kuedza kwakasimba kuedza kukanganisa misika yevatengi, asi pane chimwe chinhu chinonyanya kushamisa. Ndinoreva, mune capitalist system, musimboti wekutanga ndewekuti, taura, kana iwe ukadyara mune chimwe chinhu uye, toti, ine njodzi mari, saka iwe unoisa mari mairi kwenguva yakareba, pamwe makumi emakore, uye pakupedzisira mushure menguva refu. chimwe chinhu chinobuda chinotengeswa kuti chiwane purofiti, chinofanirwa kudzokera kwauri. Handiwo mashandiro azvinoita pano. Tora, toti, makomputa, internet, lasers, microelectronics, midziyo, GPS, chokwadi iyo yese shanduko yeIT. Paive nekudyara kwemutero mune izvo kwemakumi emakore, chaizvo makumi emakore, vachiita basa rese rakaoma, rekugadzira, rine njodzi. Muteresi anowana chero purofiti? Hapana, nekuti handiyo nzira yedu inoshanda. Iyo inopesana zvakanyanya ne-capitalist, sezvakangoita anti-democratic, inopesana nemisika, mukufarira kuisa hupfumi nesimba.
Asi izvozvo hazvifanirwe kugamuchirwa neruzhinji. Aya ndiwo-ese marudzi ekupikisa izvi anogona kuvandudzwa kana vanhu vakazviziva.
HEDGES: Zvakanaka, unogona kupokana kuti musarudzo ye2008, Obama haana kugamuchirwa neruzhinji. Asi izvo zvatinoona kakawanda ndezvekuti kana vatungamiriri vakasarudzwa vangowana simba kuburikidza, hongu, mari yemakambani, kubvumirwa kweanotongwa rudzi rwekuseka kwehutsinye. Hazviiti, poll after poll. Ndinoreva, ndakamhan'ara Obama pamusoro peNational Defense Authorization Act, mawaive mumhan'ari, uye kuvhota kwanga kuri makumi mapfumbamwe nenomwe muzana vachipokana nechikamu ichi cheNDAA. Uye zvakadaro matare, akave vatsigiri vehurumende yemubatanidzwa, vatungamiriri vakasarudzwa, bazi repamusoro, uye vezvenhau, izvo zvakanyanyozvifuratira - iro rega bato rakabata nyaya yacho zvine hunyanzvi raive, zvinoshamisa, The New York Times. Hatina-hazvina basa kuti tinodei. Hazvireve-ndinoreva, uye ndinofunga, munoziva, ndiwo mubvunzo: tinoita sei shanduko kana tasvika padanho rekuti hatichakwanisa kukwidza kumasangano echivanhu akasununguka ayo, sezvakataurwa naKarl Popper kamwe. kuwedzera kana piecemeal shanduko inogoneka, kugadzirisa hurongwa-zvechokwadi, kuchengetedza capitalism? Asi ikozvino haigoni kana kugadzirisa hurongwa. Iwe unoziva, tinoona hupfumi hwakanaka.
CHOMSKY: Hongu. Ndinoreva, ichokwadi chakakwana kuti huwandu hwevanhu vanonyanya kurambidzwa. Muchokwadi, ndiro dingindira rinotungamira kunyangwe resainzi yezvematongerwo enyika. Iwe unotarisa kune yakajairika sainzi yezvematongerwo enyika, saka, semuenzaniso, bepa richangoburwa iro richangoburitswa kunze kwePrinceton naMartin Gilens naBenjamin Page, vaviri vevanotungamira vaongorori vemisoro iyi, chavanonongedza ndechekuti zviuru zviviri zvesarudzo sarudzo uye akawana izvo zvagara zvichizivikanwa, kuti pakanga pasina-kuti maitiro eruzhinji akange asina kuita. Masangano eruzhinji ari-asina purofiti masangano akavakirwa pachena, hapana mhedzisiro. Mhedzisiro yacho yakatemerwa nesimba rakavanzika.
Pane rekodhi refu yekuenda kumashure. Thomas Ferguson, musayendisiti wezvematongerwo enyika ari pedyo nepano, aratidza zvinogutsa kuti chimwe chinhu chiri nyore sekushandisa mushandirapamwe inzira yakanaka kwazvo yesarudzo. Izvo zvinodzokera kumashure mukupera kwezana ramakore re19, mukati meiyo New Deal, munoziva, kusvika parizvino. Uye ndicho chinhu chimwe chete chazvo. Uye iwe unotarisa kumabhuku, angangoita makumi manomwe muzana ehuwandu, izvo zvavanotenda hazvina zvazvinoita pamitemo zvachose. Iwe unowana simba rakawanda zvishoma paunenge uchikwira. Paunosvika kumusoro, izvo zvingangoita, senge, chegumi chechikamu chimwe chete, vanonyanya kunyora mutemo.
Ndinoreva, unoona izvi kwese. Ndinoreva, tora izvi zvinonzi zvibvumirano zvekutengeserana zviri kutaurirana, Trans-Pacific uye Transatlantic-yakakura zvibvumirano, mhando yezvibvumirano zveNAFTA-maitiro. Zvakavandikaโzvinenge. Havasi chakavanzika kubva kumazana emagweta emakambani uye vanomiririra vari kunyora. Vanozviziva, zvinoreva kuti vakuru vavo vanozviziva. Uye hutongi hwaObama nevenhau vanoti, tarisai, izvi zvinofanirwa kuve zvakavanzika, zvikasadaro isu hatigone kudzivirira zvatinoda. Ehe, zvatinofarira zvinoreva zvido zvemagweta emakambani uye vanomiririra vari kunyora mutemo. Tora zvimedu zvishoma zvakaburitswa uye unoona kuti ndizvo zvazviri. Zvimwe chete nevamwe.
Asi hazvirevi kuti unofanira kuzvigamuchira. Uye pane shanduko. Saka tora, toti-muma1920, sangano revashandi rakanga raparadzwa zvachose. Pane bhuku rine mukurumbira. Mumwe wevanyori venhoroondo dzebasa, David Montgomery, ane bhuku guru rinonzi rakadai Kuwa kweImba Yebasa. Ari kutaura nezve 1920s. Zvakaitwa. Kwakange kwave neboka revashandi rine mhirizhonga, rainyatsoshanda, sangano revarimi zvakare. Yakapwanyika muma1920s. Hapana chakasara. Zvakanaka, muma1930 zvakachinja, uye zvakachinja nekuda kwekuratidzira kwakakurumbira.
HEDGES: Asi zvakare yakachinja nekuda kwekuparara kwecapitalism.
CHOMSKY: Paive nemamiriro ezvinhu akaunza mukana wekuita chimwe chinhu, asi isu tiri kurarama nazvo nguva dzose. Ndinoreva, tora makore makumi matatu apfuura. Kune ruzhinji rwevanhu kwave kumire kana kwakaipisisa. Ndiyo-haisi iyo chaiyo Kuora mwoyo kwakadzika, asi imhando yekusingaperi-depression kune ruzhinji rwevanhu. Ndizvoโkune zvakawanda zvokupisa kunze uko zvinogona kubatidzwa.
Uye zvakaitika muma'30s kunyanya kuronga kweCIO, zviito zvemhirizhonga sekugara pasi. Kuramwa kwekugara pasi kunotyisa zvikuru. Idanho risati ratora chinzvimbo ichi uye uchiti, hatidi maboss. Uye kuti-paiva nehutungamiri hwakabatana, Roosevelt manejimendi, saka pakava nekudyidzana. Uye mutemo wakakosha wakapasiswa-kwete wakanyanya, asi wakakosha, wakatarisirwa pasi. Uye zvakaitika zvakare mu'60s. Zvinogona kuitika zvakare nhasi. Saka handifunge kuti munhu anofanira kusiya tariro yekubvisa pane zvinonyanya kudzvanyirira nzanga mukati mehurongwa hwesarudzo. Asi zvinongoitika chete kana paine sangano rakakura rine mukurumbira, risingafanire kumira ipapo. Inogonawo kunge iri kuvaka masangano emangwana mukati menzanga iripo.
HEDGES: Ungati here iwe-wakataura nezve propaganda kare uye Creel Commission uye kusimuka kweindasitiri yehukama neveruzhinji. Kugona kuparadzira propaganda chimwe chinhu chausingakwanise kuchinzvenga. Ndinoreva kuti, iripo mune imwe fomu yemagetsi, kunyangwe mumudziyo unobatwa nemaoko. Izvozvo zvinoita kuti mashoko anoparadzirwa abudirire here?
CHOMSKY: Zvakanaka, uye imhando yemubvunzo unonakidza. Kufanana nevanhu vazhinji, ndakanyora zvakawanda nezve media uye propaganda yehungwaru, asi pane mumwe mubvunzo usina kudzidzwa zvakanyanya: inoshanda sei? Uye ndipoโpamakaunza sarudzo, mufananidzo unoshamisa. Iyo propaganda ndeye-iwe unogona kuona kubva mumigumo yesarudzo kuti propaganda inongoshanda zvishoma. Ndinoreva, inogona kutyaira huwandu hwevanhu mukutya uye kutya uye hutsinye hwehondo, senge isati yapinda Iraq kana 1917 zvichingodaro, asi nekufamba kwenguva, maitiro eruzhinji anoramba akasiyana. Muchokwadi, zvidzidzo kunyangwe zvezvinonzi bapiro rekurudyi, munoziva, vanhu vanoti, bvisa hurumende kumashure kwangu, rudzi irworwo rwechikamu, vanozove rudzi rwegutsaruzhinji. Vanoda kushandisa mari yakawanda pautano, kushandisa mari yakawanda padzidzo, kushandisa mari yakawanda, toti, vakadzi vane vana vanotsamira, asi kwete kugara zvakanaka, vasingashandisi mari pautano, nokuti Reagan, uyo akanga ari munhu ane rusaruraganda rwakanyanyisa, akabudirira mukushatisa pfungwa yegarikano. Saka mupfungwa dzevanhu welfare inoreva mukadzi mutema akapfuma achityaira nemota yake yemotokari kuenda kuhofisi yerubatsiro kunoba mari yako. Zvakanaka, hapana anoda izvozvo. Asi ivo vanoda izvo hutano hunoita.
Rubatsiro rwekune dzimwe nyika inyaya inonakidza. Pane nhema dzakakura dzekupokana nerubatsiro rwekunze, nekuti tiri kupa zvese kune vanhu vasina kukodzera kunze uko. Iwe unotarisa maitiro evanhu. Kupikisa kwakawanda kune rubatsiro rwekunze. Pamusoro soro. Nekune rumwe rutivi, ukabvunza vanhu, tinopa marii murubatsiro rwekunze? Kupfuura zvatinopa. Paunobvunza chatinofanira kupa murubatsiro rwekunze, kupfuura zvatinopa.
Uye izvi zvinoenda kune imwe bhodhi. Tora, toti mitero. Pakave nezvidzidzo zvemafungiro kumitero kwemakore makumi mana. Zvakawanda huwandu hwevanhu hunoti mitero yakadzikira zvakanyanya kune vapfumi nevemakambani. Unofanira kurisimudza. Chii chinoitika? Zvakanaka, zvakasiyana.
Ndizvo chaizvo sezvakataurwa naOrwell: zvakaiswa mauri. Icho chikamu cheyakadzika indoctrination system inotungamira kune imwe nzira yekutarisa nyika uye kutarisa kune chiremera, iyo inoti, hongu, isu tinofanirwa kuve pasi pechiremera, isu tinofanirwa kutenda kuti takazvimiririra zvakanyanya uye takasununguka uye tinozvikudza. it. Chero bedzi tichiramba tiri mukati memiganhu, tiri. Edza kudarika miganhu iyoyo, wabuda.
HEDGES: Zvakanaka, chii chainakidza pamusoro-ndinoreva, poindi, kungosimbisa pfungwa iyi: pawakatora nyaya huru dzebato reOccupy, vaive bato guru. Ukatarisa kumashure kusangano reOccupy, unofunga kuti kutadza kwaro kwaive kupi, kukosha kwaro kwaive?
CHOMSKY: Zvakanaka, ndinofunga kuti zvinorasika kuzvidaidza kuti kufamba. Occupy rakanga riri zano, iro chairo zano rakanaka. Ndinoreva kuti dai ndakabvunzwa mwedzi mishoma yapfuura kuti vatore nzvimbo dzeveruzhinji, ndingadai ndakati kupenga. Asi yakashanda zvakanaka kwazvo, uye yakavheneka moto waienda pese pese. Mazana nemazana enzvimbo munyika, kwaive nezviitiko zveOccupy. Zvakanga zviri pasi rose. Ndinoreva kuti, ndakapa hurukuro muSydney, Australia, kusangano reOccupy ikoko. Asi rakanga riri zano, zano rinoshanda zvikuru. Yakachinjwa hurukuro yavose, kwete mutemo. Zvakaunza nyaya pamberi.
Ini ndinofunga manzwiro angu pachezvake kukosha kwayo kwakakosha kwaingove kuputsa iyo atomization yenzanga. Ndinoreva, isangano reatomized. Kune marudzi ese ekuedza kuparadzanisa vanhu kubva kune mumwe, sekunge iyo yakakodzera yemagariro unit, iwe unoziva, iwe neTV yako.
HEDGES: Iwe unoziva, Hannah Arendt anosimudza atomization sechimwe chezvinhu zvakakosha zvehudzvinyiriri.
CHOMSKY: Ndizvozvo. Uye zviito zveOccupy zvakaputsa izvo kune chikamu chikuru chevanhu. Vanhu vaigona kuziva kuti tinogona kuungana tozviitira zvinhu, tinogona kuva nekicheni yakafanana, tinogona kuva nenzvimbo yehurukuro yavose, tinogona kuumba pfungwa dzedu uye kuita chimwe chinhu. Zvino, ndiko kurwiswa kwakakosha kwepakati penzira dzinodzorwa neveruzhinji. Saka hausi wega munhu ari kuyedza kuwedzera kushandisa kwako, asi kune zvimwe zvinokunetsa muhupenyu, uye iwe unogona kuita chimwe chinhu nezvazvo. Kana iwo mafungiro uye masangano uye zvisungo zvinogona kutsigirwa uye kufamba mune mamwe maitiro, izvo zvichave zvakakosha.
Asi kudzokera kuOccupy, izano. Matekiniki ane mhando yehafu yeupenyu. Iwe haugone kuramba uchizviita, uye zvechokwadi haugone kuramba uchigara munzvimbo dzeveruzhinji kwenguva yakareba. Uye yakabudirira zvikuru, asi yakanga isiri iyo pachayo kufamba. Mubvunzo ndewokuti: chii chinoitika kune vanhu vakabatanidzwa mairi? Vanoenderera mberi nekusimudzira, vanofamba munharaunda here, vachitora nyaya dzenharaunda? Vanoronga here?
Tora, toti, bhizinesi iri, toti, indasitiri ine vashandi. Imo muno muMassachusetts, kusiri kure nepano, paive nechimwe chinhu chakafanana. Mumwe wevemarudzi akawanda akafunga kuvhara chirimwa chidiki chine pundutso, icho chaigadzira michina yemuchadenga. Vashandi vane hunyanzvi hwepamusoro uye zvichingodaro, asi zvaisaita purofiti yakakwana, saka vaizozvivhara. Mubatanidzwa waida kuutenga. Kambani yakaramba-zvakajairika zvikonzero zvekirasi, ndinofunga. Dai kuedza kweOccupy kwanga kuripo panguva iyoyo, vangadai vakapa veruzhinji rutsigiro pazviri.
Izvi zvakaitika apo Obama akangoita nyika indasitiri yemotokari. Paiva nesarudzo. Imwe sarudzo yaive yaakatora, hongu, yaive yekuinunura, kuidzosera kuvaridzi vakafanana - zviso zvakasiyana, asi hwaro hwekirasi imwechete - uye kuvadzosera kukuita zvavakanga vachiita kare-kugadzira mota. Paive nedzimwe sarudzo, uye dai chimwe chinhu chakaita seOccupy movement chaive chiripo uye chakakwana, chaigona kufambisa hurumende mune dzimwe sarudzo, senge, kushandura zvirimwa zvemotokari kune vevashandi voita kuti vaburitse zvinodiwa nenyika. .
Kureva kuti hatidi dzimwe mota. Tinoda zvifambiso zveveruzhinji. United States inyaya inonyadzisa panyaya iyi. Ndichangodzoka kubva kuEurope-saka iwe unogona kuzviona zvinoshamisa. Iwe unokwira chitima cheEurope, unogona kuenda kwaunoda kuenda pasina nguva. Zvakanaka, chitima kubva kuBoston kuenda kuNew York, chingave, handizive, maminitsi makumi maviri nekukurumidza kupfuura pandakachitora makore makumi matanhatu apfuura. Iwe unoenda pamwe neConnecticut Turnpike uye marori ari kuenda nekukurumidza kupfuura chitima. Munguva pfupi yapfuura Japan yakapa United States chikwereti chakaderera chekuvaka njanji inomhanya zvikuru kubva kuWashington kuenda kuNew York. Zvakarambwa hazvo. Asi zvavaipa kwaiva kugadzira chitima chandakafamba muJapan makore 20 apfuura. Uye ichi chaive nyonganiso munyika yese.
Zvakanaka, iwe unoziva, indasitiri yemotokari yakagadziridzwa ingadai yakatendeukira kune iyo nzira pasi pevashandi uye nharaunda kutonga. Handifungi kuti zvinhu izvi hazvioneki. Uye, sezvineiwo, vanotova neinodaidzwa kuti inochengetedza tsigiro, nekuti ivo vari mukati meiyo yakawanda inonzi capitalist framework (haisi chaiyo capitalist). Uye aya ndiwo mafambiro anofanirwa kudzvanywa.
Parizvino, semuenzaniso, mubatanidzwa weSteelworkers uri kuyedza kumisa humwe hukama neMondragon, iyo huru yevashandi-ine vashandi munyika yeBasque muSpain, iyo yakabudirira kwazvo, chokwadi, uye inosanganisira indasitiri, kugadzira, mabhanga, zvipatara. , dzimba dzokugara. Yakapamhama zvikuru. Hazvigoneke kuti izvo zvinogona kuunzwa pano, uye zvinogona kukurumidza. Kuri kugadzira hwaro hwenzanga yakasiyana.
Uye ndinofunga nezvinhu zvakaita sekuti, Occupy, nguva yanga isina kunyatsonaka. Asi dai nguva yanga iri nani zvishoma (uye izvi zvinoenderera nguva dzose, saka zvinogoneka nguva dzose), zvingadai zvakapa rudzi rwekukurudzira kufambisa zvikamu zvakakosha zvesocioeconomic system mune imwe nzira. Uye kana izvo zvinhu zvatanga kufamba uye vanhu vaona zvakanakira ivo, zvinogona kuve zvakakosha.
Kune mhando dzezviwi zvakadaro munyika yose. Saka tora Chattanooga, Tennessee. Zvinoitika kuve nehurongwa hweinternet hwakarongeka pachena. Ndiyo yakanyanya kunaka munyika. Kukurumidza kuwana internet yezvikamu zvakafara zvehuwandu. Ini ndinofungidzira kuti midzi yacho ingangodzokera kuTVA uye iyo New Deal zvirongwa. Zvakanaka, kana izvozvo zvichigona kupararira munyika yose (sei zvisingaiti? inoshanda zvikuru, yakachipa, inoshanda zvakanaka kwazvo), inogona kukanganisa indasitiri yezvekufonera uye oligopoly yayo, chingava chinhu chakanaka kwazvo. Pane zvakawanda zvinogoneka seizvi.
HEDGES: Ini ndoda kubvunza mibvunzo miviri yekupedzisira. Kutanga, chokwadi chekuti isu tave nzanga ine mauto, chimwe chinhu chekufanotaura kweAnti-Imperialist League pakupera kwezana ramakore re19, kusanganisira Carnegie naJane Addams-zvakaoma kufunga nezvavo vari vaviri mukamuri imwechete. Asi iwe dzokera uverenge zvavakanyora, uye vaitaura chokwadi kuti nzanga ine mauto yatikanganisa sei mune zveupfumi-Seymour Melman akanyora nezve izvi zvakanaka-uye nezvematongerwo enyika. Uye icho ndicho chipingamupinyi chatinoedza kugadzirisa kana kugadzirisa nharaunda yedu isu tinofanira kurarama naro. Uye ndakanetseka kana iwe uchigona kugadzirisa iyi monstrosity yemauto yawanyora nezvayo zvishoma.
CHOMSKY: Zvakanaka, chimwe chinhu, veruzhinji havazvifarire. Chii chinonzi isolationism kana rimwe kana rimwe izwi rakashata, sezvaunoziva, pacifism chaive, kungozivikanwa neveruzhinji kuti pane chakakanganisika zvakanyanya nekuzvipira kwedu kumauto pasi rese.
Zvino, chokwadika, panguva imwe cheteyo, voruzhinji vanotya kupinda mukutenda kuti tinofanira kuzvidzivirira timene. Uye hazvisi zvenhema zvachose. Chikamu chehurongwa hwemauto chiri kugadzira mauto anozotikuvadza, toti, mushandirapamwe wehugandanga waObama, mushandirapamwe wekudhiraivha, danidziro huru yemagandanga munhoroondo. Iri kuunza magandanga anogona kukurumidza kupfuura kuuraya vanhu vanofungirwa.
Unogona kuzviona. Zvinoshamisa zvikuru zviri kuitika izvozvi muIraq. Uye chokwadi chenyaya yacho chiri pachena. Dzokera kuNuremberg mitongo. Ini handisi kukuudza chero chausingazive, asi muNuremberg utsinye yairondedzerwa seโmhosva huru yenyika yose,โ yakasiyana nedzimwe mhosva dzehondo pakuti inosanganisira, uipi hwose hunotevera. Zvakanaka, kupindira kweUS-British muIraq inyaya yehukasha. Nezviyero zveNuremberg, vese vaizoturikwa. Uye chimwe chezvinhu zvayakaita, imwe yemhosva yaive yekukuchidzira kurwisana kweSunni-Shiite uko kwanga kusiri kuitika. Ndinoreva, pakanga paine, munoziva, marudzi akasiyana-siyana emakakatanwa, asi maIraqi aisatenda kuti panogona kunge paine kupokana. Vakanga vakaroorana, vaigara munzvimbo imwe chete, zvichingodaro. Asi kuvhozhokera kwacho kwakadzikira. Yakasimuka yega. Parizvino yave kupisa dunhu rose. Ikozvino tave panguva iyo mauto eSunni jihadi ari kufora kuBaghdad.
HEDGES: Uye mauto eIraqi ari kudonha.
CHOMSKY: Mauto eIraqi vari kungopa maoko avo. Zviri pachena kuti kune kubatana kwakawanda kuri kuitika.
Uye zvese izvi imhosva yeUS kana tichitenda mukukodzera kwemitongo yakanangana nemaNazi.
Uye inonakidza. Robert Jackson, muchuchisi mukuru, mutongi weUS, mudare, akataura kudare, uye akataura, sekutaura kwaakaita, kuti tiri kupa vapomeri ava "chalice ine chepfu", uye kana tikambofa kubva mairi, isu tinofanirwa kubatwa nenzira imwechete, kana zvisina kudaro chinhu chose ifaro uye tinofanira kuona izvi sekururamisira kwemukundi.
HEDGES: Asi hazvisi netsaona kuti chengetedzo yedu nemidziyo yekutarisa ine mauto. Uye wakarurama, hongu, kuti hapana yakafara yakakurumbira tsigiro yeiyi kuwedzera kwemauto adventurism. Uye zvakadaro mubvunzo ndewekuti kana paine kuedza kwakakomba kudzikamisa simba ravo nemabhajeti avo. Vane michina. Uye isu takatonzwa Nancy Pelosi achitsinhira izvi maererano nematambiro avanoita tsvina. Ndinoreva kuti vari kutarisa vatungamiri vose vakasarudzwa zvakare.
CHOMSKY: Monitoring. Asi kunyangwe zvese zvese, ichiri nzanga yakasununguka yakasununguka, uye kucherechedzwa neUS neBritish bhizinesi kumashure makore zana apfuura kuti havachakwanisa kudzora huwandu hwevanhu nechisimba kwakarurama. Uye kutonga kwemaitiro uye maonero hakuna kusimba, sezvakaita kuongorora. Zvakasiyana chaizvo pane kutumira mudutu mauto. Iwe unoziva, saka kune yakawanda latitude, kune vanhu vane rombo rakanaka, zvirinani, kuita marudzi ese ezvinhu. Ndinoreva, zvakasiyana kana uri mwana mutema mughetto. Ehe, wobva waitirwa mhirizhonga yenyika. Asi kune chikamu chikuru chehuwandu, kune yakawanda mikana isati yave kuwanikwa munguva yakapfuura.
HEDGES: Asi vanhu ivavo vanongoita zvekungoona.
CHOMSKY: Asi havafanirwe kudaro.
HEDGES: Ivo havafanirwe kunge vari, asi Hannah Arendt, paakanyora nezve ane masimba ese mapurisa akanangana nevasina nyika, kusanganisira isu pachedu neFrance, akati dambudziko rekuvaka mapurisa ane masimba ese, izvo zvatakaita munharaunda dzedu dzepasi mukunangana. vanhu veruvara-tinogona kuita kuti mikova yavo ikandwe mukati nekumira chero nekukandwa mutirongo kwemakumi emakore nekuda kwemhosva dzavasina kupara- ndezvekuti kana iwe uine mhirizhonga munharaunda, unenge watove nemutemo uye wenyama nzira iyo kuti mapurisa ane masimba ose anogona kukurumidza kuitwa.
CHOMSKY: Handifungi kuti ichokwadi pano. Ndinofunga kuti nguva yapfuura apo ikoko kunogona kuitwa nokuda kwamativi anowedzera echiverengero chavagari vapasi, avo vane rinenge mwero upi noupi weropafadzo. Nyika inogona kuda kuzviita, asi ivo havana simba rekuzviita. Vanogona kuita ongororo yakadzama, kutarisa, vanogona kuita zvechisimba kune zvikamu zvehuwandu zvisingakwanisi kuzvidzivirira - vabvakure vasina magwaro, vana vatema mughetto, zvichingodaro-asi kunyangwe izvo zvinogona kuderedzwa. Semuyenzaniso, chimwe chezvinonyadzisa zvikuru muUnited States kubvira Reagan iri chirongwa chikuru chekuvharirwa, chiri chombo chinorwisa-ihondo yemujaho. Asi zvinobva pazvinodhaka. Uye pakupedzisira pane kucheka panobva izvi uye kupara mhosva uye kukanganisa kwakanyanya kwemaitiro ehutsotsi hwekushandisa zvinodhaka kwashanda. Izvozvo zvinogona kuva nemigumisiro.
Ndinoreva, ndinofunga-tarisa, hapana kupokana kuti huwandu hwevanhu hahuna maturo. Pane nzira dzakawanda dzekuti vasaite. Pane nzira dzakawanda dzekudzikisira uye kudzigadzirisa. Asi izvo zvakasiyana nevarwi vemhepo. Zvakatosiyana. Uye inogona kukurirwa, yakakundwa kare. Uye ini ndinofunga kune akawanda matanho, mamwe acho ari kuitwa, mamwe achivandudza, ayo anogona kushandiswa kuputsa iyi system. Ndinofunga ihurongwa husina kusimba, kusanganisira zvechiuto.
HEDGES: Ngatingovharai nekushanduka kwemamiriro ekunze. Se, ndakaverenga mishumo yekuchinja kwemamiriro ekunze, iyo-.
CHOMSKY: Zvakanaka, zvinosuruvarisa, izvo-zvinogona kutiparadza tose, uye kwete mune ramangwana renguva refu. Izvo zvinongokurira zvese. Ndekekutanga munhoroondo yevanhu isu tisiri chete-tinokwanisa kuparadza mamiriro ekurarama kwakanaka. Uye zviri kutoitika. Ndinoreva, ingotarisa kuparadzwa kwemarudzi. Kuparadzwa kwemarudzi zvino kunofungidzirwa kuva kwakada kusvika kumwero wemamiriyoni 65 apfuura apo asteroid yakarova pasi ndokugumisa nguva yemadinosaur, yakaparadza nhamba huru yezvipenyu. Same level nhasi, uye isu tiri asteroid. Uye iwe tarisa pane zviri kuitika munyika, ndinoreva, chero munhu anotarisa izvi ari kunze muchadenga angashamisika.
Ndinoreva, kune zvikamu zvehuwandu hwepasi rose zviri kuyedza kudzivirira njodzi. Kune mamwe masekete ari kuyedza kuimhanyisa. Uye iwe tarisa kuti ndivanaani. Avo vari kuedza kuikanganisa ndivo vatinodaidza kumashure: vagari vemo, Marudzi ekutanga muCanada, munoziva, maAboriginals kubva kuAustralia, vanhu vedzinza muIndia, munoziva, pasi rese, vari kuyedza kuzvikanganisa. Ndiani arikukurumidzisa? Vane rombo rakanaka, repamusoro-vanonzi vepamusoro-vakadzidza vanhu munyika, US neCanada vari kutungamira. Uye tinoziva chikonzero nei.
Kune zvakare -. Heino nyaya inonakidza yekugadzirwa kwemvumo uye inoshanda here? Iwe unotarisa sarudzo dzepasi rose nezvekudziya kwepasirese, vanhu vekuAmerica, avo vanonyanya kuparadzirwa pane izvi-ndinoreva, kune nhamburiko huru dzekuedza kuita kuti vatende kuti hazvisi kuitika - vari pazasi pezvakajairwa, saka pane zvimwe zvinokonzeresa. mashoko anoparadzirwa. Yakaiswa stratified. Kana iwe ukatarisa maRepublicans, ari pazasi pezvakajairwa. Asi zviri kuitika muRepublican Party mumativi ese zvinoshamisa. Saka, semuenzaniso, nezvezvikamu zviviri kubva muzvitatu zveRepublicans vanotenda kuti pakanga paine zvombo zvekuparadza kukuru muIraq uye nemhando dzose dzezvimwe zvinhu. Unoziva. Saka yakaitwa stratified. Asi pane zvimwe zvinokanganisa propaganda, asi kwete zvakanyanya. Vazhinji vevanhu vachiri kuiona sedambudziko rakakura.
Pane chaizvo nyaya inofadza pamusoro peizvi mu Columbia Journalism Ongororo iyo ichangobva kuoneka, nyaya yazvino, inotungamira kuongororwa kwenhau. Vanoti izvi zvakakonzerwa nezvavanoti dzidziso yekururamisira munhau. Dzidziso yerusaruro inoti kana uine chidimbu chepfungwa ne95, 97 muzana yesainzi, unofanirwa kuibatanidza nechikamu chepfungwa nemakambani emagetsi, nekuti izvo zvingave zvakanaka uye zvine mwero. Hakuna dzidziso yakadaro. Senge, kana iwe uine chidimbu chepfungwa chinoshora Putin saHitler mutsva wekutora Crimea, haufanirwe kuzvienzanisa nechikamu chepfungwa uchiti makore zana apfuura United States yakatora kumaodzanyemba kwakadziva kumabvazuva kweCuba papfuti uye ichiri kuibata, kunyangwe isina chikonzero zvachose kunze kwekuyedza kukanganisa budiriro yeCuba, nepo zvakasiyana, chero zvaunofunga nezvaPutin, pane zvikonzero. Haufaniri kuva nazvo. Uye iwe unofanirwa kuve wakaringana uye wakadzikama kana zvichikanganisa zvinonetsa zvesimba rakavanzika, nguva. Asi edza kuwana chinyorwa muColumbia Journalism Ongororo achiratidza izvozvo, kunyange zviri pachena.
Saka zvinhu zvese izvo zviripo, asi zvinogona kukurirwa, uye zvirinani zvidaro. Izvi hazvisi-iwe unoziva, kunze kwekunge paine kuchinjika kwakanyanya mugwara, kunze kwekunge isu muno mune dzinonzi nzanga dzepamusoro takwanisa kuziva vanhu vepasi rino, tiri mudambudziko guru. Vazukuru vedu vachatambura nazvo.
HEDGES: Uye ndinofunga unobvuma kuti hazvisi kuzobva kune vemasimba.
CHOMSKY: Hazvisizvo.
HEDGES: Zviri kwatiri.
CHOMSKY: Hongu. Uye ndezvekukurumidza.
HEDGES: Ndizvo. Ndokutenda zvikuru.
ZNetwork inopihwa mari chete kuburikidza nerupo rwevaverengi vayo.
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