[Dudziro yebvunzurudzo kubva Newspaper yaAugust 28. Ona yepakutanga pano.]
Anozvitsanangura seMarxist-Leninist "mudzidzisi akakurumbira." MuChilean, aive mudzidzi wemuzivi Louis Althusser, mutungamiri wevadzidzi veKatorike uye nhengo yehurumende yesocialist yeSalvador Allende. Akaroora mumwe wevatungamiriri veshanduko yeCuba, Manuel Piñeiro kana "Barba Roja," uye muma2000s akave chipangamazano kuna Hugo Chávez.
Marta Harnecker anoti akanyora mabhuku anodarika makumi masere. Iyo inonyanya kuzivikanwa, Conceptos Elementales del Materialismo Histórico (Iwo Basic Concepts of Historical Materialism), kubva kuma1960, yakatengesa makopi anopfuura miriyoni uye iri muchikamu chayo chechi67. Pamakore makumi manomwe nemashanu, anofamba muLatin America yose uye anoti ane tariro; United States haichaiti zvainoda mudunhu uye pfungwa yehuchangamire yapararira.
Achigara zvino muVancouver, Canada, anoona Chávez “mutungamiriri anokosha wechimurenga” asi “munhu anopokanidzana.” “Iye musoja anotenda mukubatanidzwa kwemukurumbira. Chakakosha kuona zvibereko zvechinhu ichi. " Venezuela ndiyo nyika isina kuenzana pakondinendi.
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Folha - Unoongorora sei mamiriro ezvematongerwo enyika muLatin America?
Marta Harnecker – Ndine tarisiro huru.
Chavez paakakunda aive ega uye zvino mamiriro achinja zvakanyanya. Ini ndinofunga mamiriro epamberi kuve muVenezuela, Bolivia neEcuador. Bhuku rangu rekupedzisira raive kuEcuador uye rinonzi Ecuador: Una Nueva Izquierda en Busca de la Vida en Plenitud. Pfungwa yehurumende idzi ndeyeimwe nzira kune capitalism, umo munhu ane budiriro yakazara.
Hatina kufunga izvi zvakakosha munguva yakapfuura uye mazuva ano zvakakosha: nzanga inovakwa nevanhu, kubva pasi zvichikwira. Haisi nyaya yekuti vanhu vari vapemhi vanogamuchira zvipo kubva kuhurumende. Handizvo zvatinoda uye handizvo zviri kuitwa. Nyamukuta wechirongwa ichi aive neoliberalism, iyo yakaunza kupesana, uye vanhu vakatanga kuramba uye vakatanga kunzwisisa kuti vaifanira kutora chikamu mune zvematongerwo enyika uye kugadzira zvombo zvezvematongerwo enyika. Ndizvo zvakaitika muEcuador, muBolivia uye muVenezuela. Paive nedzvinyiriro yakakurumbira imomo muma1980 inova chikamu chemavambo ekukunda kwaChávez.
Pane dambudziko rehurongwa hwehurumende. Vanhu havachavimbi nevezvematongerwo enyika kana vezvematongerwo enyika uye vanoda chimwe chinhu chitsva. Vaneta nezvipikirwa zvisina kuzadzikiswa. Hurumende idzi dzakauya uye, zvinopesana nekufanotaura kwevamwe, kusanganisira vazivi veBrazil, maitiro akaenderera mberi. Pane vaifunga kuti pane chipingamupinyi chasangana uye chaizononoka. Asi handizvo zvazvaive.
Asi humambo huripo. Kune nyaya dzaManuel Zelaya naFernando Lugo. Vaive nemaitiro aive asina kusimba mukati, aine masangano ane mukurumbira asina kusimba, asina mapato. Vose vakabva kumapato ebourgeois. Iko hakuna chekukopa muLatin America. Vamwe vanove nechido nezvemaitiro eVenezuela uye vanofunga kuti chinhu chimwe chete chinogona kuitwa munyika dzese. Maitiro pakondinendi akasiyaniswa zvachose. Chinovabatanidza magariro evanhu. MuBolivia uye muEcuador, somuenzaniso, zvizvarwa zvemo mapoka anokosha asi kwete muVenezuela.
Kuita kwaChávez hakunei nepetroleum here?
Petroleum yakanga yatove yenyika pakatanga Chavez kutonga asi yakanga isiri mumaoko ehurumende. Yakanga ichitungamirirwa nemapoka akabatana nevanopikisa. Nekuda kweiyo coup ya2002, manejimendi nehurumende yakasimbiswa zvakare. Iyo purofiti kubva kupetroleum inoshandiswa kumisha yezvemagariro evanhu uye kutsigira mamwe maitiro muLatin America. Pane kutsamira, asi zviri pachena kuti inoda kukurirwa.
Hurumende iri kuisa mari muzvirongwa zvemaindasitiri, sezvo neoliberalism yakabvisa maindasitiri munyika dzedu. Iyo nzira ndeyekunyanya kutsamira pane petroleum.
MuBolivia hurumende yeMorales yakatarisana nekupikisa kwemasangano akakurumbira. Unotsanangura sei izvozvo?
Izvi zvinopokana izvo nzira dzinopfuura nemairi. Izvi zvakasiyana zvakanyanya nemaitiro ekuchinja kwema1920s, mukumukira kweRussia. Muzviitiko izvi, kwaingova kuuya nesimba. Muzvizhinji zvacho, nekubatana kwemauto muparamende, muhurumende dzematunhu, munhepfenyuro dzezvekufambiswa kwemashoko uye musimba rehupfumi, izvo zvakaramba zviri mumaoko evaimbove nesimba.
MuÁlvaro Linera [mutevedzeri wemutungamiri weBolivia] chiratidzo chekupokana kuri kuitika munyika. Pakati pehurumende yaanofanira kunge ari mukuru wehurumende, kuita sarudzo, kugadzirisa matambudziko enyika yose, uye masangano evanhu, ane maitiro ehurukuro yedemocracy, nezvimwewo. zvinopesana. Iwo akabatana akatenderedza mabhenji senge, semuenzaniso, iwo eiyo plurinational state. Asi kupokana kwakanyanya uye hurumende inofanirwa kunzwisisa izvozvo uye kutarisa mativi ese zvine demokrasi. Zvakaoma zvikuru. Vanhu vanoda kuti hurumende igadzirise dambudziko iri. Imhando yehubaba. Kana hurumende idzi dzauya, dzinoda kugadziriswa nekukurumidza, hadzizivi nezvezvematongerwo enyika kana nezvekubatana kwemasimba. Kunze kwaizvozvo, chiono chenzvimbo chinokunda, pasina chiono chezvese.
Chinodiwa hurongwa hwedzidzo yemukurumbira kuitira kuti nharaunda inzwisise kuti zvinokanganisa nyika nedzimwe nharaunda kusagadzira mugwagwa. Linera anoona kuti kune, uye kuchave, kupokana uye magavhuna anofanirwa kutungamira navo.
Unoongorora sei mamiriro eBrazil, Argentina neUruguay?
Vakasiyana. Idzo ihurumende dzine mwero zvikuru asi dziri kutora matanho pamusoro pouchangamire. Nekuti chinhu chekutanga chatinofanira kuwana huchangamire pamberi peUS. Takaita misangano tichisiya US kunze; State Department haiuye kuzotiudza zvekuita. Muhurumende zhinji dzenharaunda, uchangamire chinhu chinokosha. Iko kubudirira kuti Unasur yakaumbwa uye kuti Chile, Mexico neColombia zviri mairi.
Simba reUS mudunhu radzikira here?
United States haichakwanisi kuita zvainoda. Asi chokwadi simba rawo rakakura. Kune United States inopesana-inogumbura inoratidzwa muzviitiko zvakaita seZelaya, uye mukuyedza kurwisa Correa. Pakaita coup against Lugo. Vari kuyedza zvakare kuita coup muBolivia, nezvikamu zvevanopikisa zvichitora mukana wekupokana kuri mukati mehuwandu. MuSanta Cruz uye mune dzimwe nzvimbo vari kuedza kuumba mubatanidzwa nezvikamu zvisingagutsikane zvevanhu. Kuedza kwekuparadzanisa kwakakundwa nekuda kwesangano rakakurumbira. Ikozvino hapana njodzi iri kuuya asi iwo masimba ari kuzvigadzirisa.
Isu hatina nzira iri nyore. Aya ndiwo maitiro asina kutsanangurwa nehusiku humwe. Kudzivirira kwakanakisisa kuve nevanhu vakarongeka. Chavez anonzwisisa izvozvo chaizvo. Anogara achisimbirira kuti hatingagadzirise dambudziko rehurombo kana tikasapa simba kuvanhu. Chávez imhando inonzwisisa vanhu, munhu chaiye. Ndakanyora naye bhuku rinonzi, Hugo Chavez Frías: Un Hombre, un Pueblo. Handisi kuti Chávez murume haana hurema kana kuti hapana kupesana pakati pehurukuro yake nezvaanoita. Tiri kupinda mumaitiro evanhu, kwete maitiro akachena, ehumwari.
Mukuona kwako, pangava nemuenzaniso wakafanana here pakati penyika dzeLatin America?
Ndiri muChilean. MuChile, mabhunu kurwisa-revolutions akabatanidzwa, naPinochet nevateveri vake. The Concertación inoenderera mberi neoliberal mitemo nemamwe maitiro evanhu. Paiva neoliberalism yakabudirira mukuwedzera kweGNP, kuvakwa kwemigwagwa mikuru. Asi Chile, iyo yakanga iri imwe yenyika dzakaenzana zvikuru muLatin America, zvino yava imwe ine misiyano mikuru pakati pevarombo nevapfumi. MuChile makanga musina madziro akapoteredza dzimba dzemahaute bourgeoisie. Mhedzisiro yeneoliberalism haigone kuyerwa chete padivi rehupfumi. Ndakasangana nomurume nomudzimai vokuChile, vanogadzira mapurani, vanoshanda maawa 14 pazuva. Vanoraramira kushanda, havashande kuti vararame.
Vanhu vepetite bourgeoisie vanowana zvinhu zvishoma asi kune makwikwi akawanda, vanogara vachimhanya-mhanya, havana kana rugare pabasa. MuBrazil zvakare kurwisa-revolution yebourgeois kwakabatanidzwa.
Zvakanga zvakadaro sei? Hutongi hwePT [Partido dos Trabalhadores - Workers' Party] ibato remabhunu?
Iwo masector aitonga akabatanidzwa, mabhizimusi ezvekurima. Iyo PT iri kutsvaga kuita chimwe chinhu. Haikwanise kuenzaniswa neVenezuela kana Bolivia nekuda kwekuwirirana kwemauto mukukunda kwaLula. Munyika inova hupfumi hwechitanhatu pasi rose, mari yezvemari nevekunze vane simba guru. Saka capitalism yakabatanidzwa, asi kune kutarisisa kune yakakurumbira zvikamu. Vanobvisa vanhu muhurombo.
MuBrazil, hurumende inofanirwa kufambisa maitiro esangano rakakurumbira zvakanyanya. Tine Left yanga yave mukupikisa. Hurumende inofanirwa kuve iyo Executive, kugadzirisa matambudziko uye haigone kumirira nhaurirano dzebato. Nhambwe pakati pebato nehurumende inokura. Zvikamu zvechikamu chakakurumbira zvinotora zvinzvimbo muhurumende. Munyika yakaita seBrazil zvinodikanwa kuve wakasimba zvakanyanya kuti usashanduke kuita chimwe chinhu. Mushandi anova seneta kana mumiriri anoshandura hupenyu hwake. Sokudzidzisa kunoita Marxism, migariro yokunyama inopesvedzera. Ini ndinotenda kuti kune deformation yevatungamiriri vazhinji, vanomira kumiririra zvido zvakakurumbira.
Kune akawanda akasiiwa kushoropodzwa kwaLula naDilma kwakaitwa pasina kunzwisisa masimba aripo. Handirevi kuti havagoni kuita zvinopfuura zvavakaita.
Saka hapana yakajairika modhi yeLatin America?
Aiwa. Mamiriro ezvinhu mumwe nomumwe muLatin America akasiyana. Zvakakosha kudzidza nzvimbo imwe neimwe, mavambo ayo ezvakaitika kare, kuwirirana kwemasimba.
Ndiri mudzidzi waLenin. Izvo zvinodikanwa kuita kongiri kuongororwa kwemauto, kusarudza zano uye zano. Pane mhedziso, inova socialism yezana ramakore rechi21, nzanga yekurarama zvakanaka. Hatidi socialism yakafanana neyeSoviet, statist, dzvinyiriri, bato rimwe chete, asingadaviri kuvapo kwaMwari, iro raishandisa masangano enzanga senzira yokuwana nayo mugumo. Izvo zvinodikanwa kuverenga classics, Marx uye Engels. Vavariro inzanga yakabatana, kuti parege kuva nevashandisi nevanobiridzira, umo mumwe nomumwe anowana chimwe chinhu chokuita, kuti misiyano iremekedzwe. Icho chinangwa cheutopian. Ndaiyera nzanga nemibvunzo: 1. Hurumende idzi dzakawana mhindu here maererano nouchangamire hwenyika? 2. Vanobatanidza, kuwedzera kurongeka kwevanhu here? 3. Vanokura vachiremekedza zvinhu zvakasikwa here?
Unoongorora sei dambudziko rehupfumi hwenyika?
Idambudziko rakakosha rekuumbwa. Haisi yekupedzisira nekuti capitalism inopora. Mamiriro ezvinangwa akanyanya kuenderera kupfuura mamiriro ezvinhu. Ndinokoshesa mafambiro akaita seaya indignados. Chimurenga inhanho yekutanga asi inofanirwa kuti ishanduke kuita simba. Reconstruyendo la Izquierda (Kuvakazve Kuruboshwe) ibhuku rangu randinoti chinodiwa chombo chekutaura chisiri mapato echivanhu. Neoliberalism inopatsanura huwandu hwevanhu.
Sei izvozvo?
Zvematongerwo enyika hausi unyanzvi hwezvinobvira. Ndiko diplomacy. Ndakanyora bhuku pamusoro pazvo. Wezvematongerwo enyika anomukira anofanirwa kunzwisisa kuti kuti azadzise chinangwa chake anofanirwa kugadzira kuwirirana kwemasimba. Kuvaka masimba evanhu kuitira kuti ave nesimba rezvematongerwe enyika kuitira kuti aite chinangwa chake. Iwe unovaka simba remagariro neprotagonism yakakurumbira. Hurumende haigone kugadzira izvo zvisipo, asi zvinogona kugadzira mamiriro kuitira kuti masimba asimbiswe.
Mapato ezvematongerwo enyika haaizove chombo ichocho? Hapana misiyano here?
Mapato ezvematongerwo enyika haanzwisise zvematongerwo enyika sehunyanzvi hwekuvaka masimba emagariro. Asi vanonzwisisa zvematongerwo enyika senzira yekuwana zvinzvimbo muhurumende, yekuva nenhengo dzekongiresi dzakawanda, masimba akawanda. Iyoyo haisi iyo pfungwa. Zvematongerwo enyika zvinowanzoshorwa. Kurudyi kwakakodzera mutauro weKuruboshwe. Kuruboshwe kazhinji kunoita zvematongerwo enyika senge kurudyi: kutsigira, hunhu, basa rezvematongerwo enyika, dzimwe nguva kunyange huori. Vanhu vanoona hurukuro imwe cheteyo, muitiro wakafanana, vanova vasingachafariri.
Semuyenzaniso?
Hapana mienzaniso. Mhosva imwe neimwe inoita chirwere. Asi zvakajeka. Zvinoda kuenderana zvakanyanya pakati pezvaunotaura nezvaunoita. Izvo zvinodiwa kushanda kuvaka simba remagariro, uye kwete kuzvipira kuhondo dzemasangano. Socialism inoda ruzhinji, hegemony, kupwisa nhamba hurusa yevanhu vepurojekiti, kuve neruzhinji uye nekuremekedza misiyano.
Ndine bhuku rinoongorora kukanganisa kwakaitwa naKuruboshwe. Kana munhu achiziva kukosha kwekubatana, anotanga kunzwisisa kuti zvakakosha kuva pane kuva nazvo. Ndiko kurwisana nevatengi. Kune demokrasi inogutsa. Vanhu vane zvikwereti. Vashandi vanodzingwa nekuti vanogona kurasikirwa nemabasa uye havachengetedzwe sekare. Kana mapato akasiya akwanisa kuwana nzvimbo, vatungamiriri vanowanzo mira kuve vatungamiriri veshanduko. Ngozi yacho yakakura zvikuru. Mutevedzeri wezvematongerwo enyika anova chikamu chezvigadzirwa zve bourgeois anofanira kuva nemhando yemaitiro, boka revanhu vanodzora uye vanobvunza, vanobvunza mutungamiri kuti sei ari kutenga motokari yaasingadi. Co-option, nemafungiro uye netsika, zviri nyore kune mumwe munhu.
Iwe wakaroorwa nemutungamiri weCuban Revolution uye wakagara pachitsuwa kwemakore akawanda. Munoona sei mamiriro akaita nyika?
Cuba yaive nyika yangu yechipiri. Ndine mwanasikana wekuCuba anogara ikoko. Cuba yakadzidzisa chiremerera cheLatin America, kugona kudzivirira uchangamire, kuramba kune zvakaipa zvese. Hupfumi hwakaoma zvikuru.
Munoona sei shanduko dziri kuitika muhupfumi?
Paifanira kuchinja. Vanhu vanoda nzvimbo yekukudziridza kugona kwavo kugadzira. Ichokwadi. Ndinotenda kuti kutora chikamu kwevashandi mumakorasi inzira inofanirwa kuongororwa.
Wakanga uri mudzidzi waLouis Althusser (1918-1990). Chiitiko ichocho chakanga chakaita sei?
Ndakadzidza zvepfungwa paCatholic University yeChile. Somutungamiriri wechiito cheKaturike cheyunivhesiti, ndakashanyira Cuba uye ndakafadzwa. Ndaiva muKaturike uye ndakatanga kukurukura nevaKristu veMarxist. Ndakaenda kuFrance ndokusangana naAlthusser, aimbovawo muKaturike. Ndakaverenga mabhuku ake, uye ndikagadzira hukama semudzidzi. Ndaigara mamita mashoma kubva pamba pake uye ndaimuona katatu pazuva. Aindiudza zvokuverenga. Handina kuenderera mberi mune zvepfungwa. Izvo zvaive kubva 1963 kusvika 1968. A akashandawo naPaul Ricoeur (1913-2005). Ndakadzokera kuChile ndichifunga kudzidzisa chiFrench.
Ini nemaune handina kuwana degree. Ndakanga ndanyora bhuku, Conceptos Elementales del Materialismo Histórico kubva muzvinyorwa zvandakanga ndanyora zvekosi yevaHaiti neveMexico gore rapfuura randakanga ndiri muParis. Bhuku iroro rakatengesa makopi anopfuura miriyoni. Iko zvino yave muchinyorwa chayo chechi67 uye yakashandurirwa mumitauro yakawanda. MuBrazil yakagoverwa muzvinyorwa zvepachivande. Nemhaka yebhuku racho, ndakava purofesa paYunivhesiti yeChile, ndiina Theotonio dos Santos naRuy Mauro Marini. Ndaive mupepeti weUnidad Popular magazine, Chile Hoy. Ndakachinja zvinyorwa zvevakangwara, zvichiita kuti zvive nyore kuvanhu. Ndipo pandakatanga kubatwa nenhau dzezvenhau.
Ndine mabhuku anopfuura 80 akadhindwa. Mamwe mabhuku eakaundi emunhu, ezvakaitika munyika dzinoverengeka - El Salvador, Ecuador, Bolivia, Paraguay, Venezuela. Ndine bhuku riri paPT iro rakamirira. MuChile ndaiva mubato reSocialist uye ndakafarira dzidzo yakakurumbira. Ini ndinofunga kugutsikana kukuru kugadzira chinyorwa chinogona kunzwisiswa nemunhu wese, chisiri chedzidzo. Ini handisi purofesa. Ndiri mudzidzisi ane mukurumbira; ndiwo maziviro andinoita ini. Pashure pokupandukira muChile ndakaenda kuCuba, kwandakasimbisa ukama hwangu naComandante Manuel Piñeiro, “Barba Roja” (1933-1998). Ndakagara muCuba kusvika muna 2003. Ndakaenda kunobvunzurudza Hugo Chávez wokuVenezuela. Ndakaunganidza kutsoropodza kubva Kuruboshwe, kusava nechokwadi nezvehurumende yake. Akazvifarira chaizvo kuti ndakataura mashoko ekushoropodzwa uye akandikoka kuti ndishande kumuzinda. Ndaisada muhoro. Vaingobhadhara pekugara uye zvekudya.
Zvii zvakashoropodzwa?
Kuti shumiro yokuti neyokuti yakanga isiri kuita zvakati nezvakati, zvokuti yakanga ine matauriro ehutongi, zvose. Ndakagara muVenezuela kwemakore matanhatu.
Unoona here kuti Chávez munhu ane masimba?
Chávez murwi anotenda mukutora chikamu kwakakurumbira uye anoda kusimudzira. Kungoti anopokana semunhu. Uye iwe unofanirwa kuremekedza kupokana ikoko. Tingada kuti asave ane masimba asi tinonzwisisa. Ini pachangu ndine hunhu hwakaoma. Kazhinji kazhinji ndinoda kuchinja asi hazvisi nyore. Chakakosha kuona zvibereko zvezviro izvi. Kana tikaenzanisa Venezuela mugore rokutanga neiyo yanhasi, tine vanhu vane hunhu, vanotsoropodza, vakakura vane vanhu. Uye ndizvo zvatiri kutsvaga. Ndakamuremedza nekushoropodza.
Uye uchiri kugara muVenezuela?
Ndinogara kuVancouver, kuCanada, nemumwe wangu, Michael Lebowitz.
Unoona sei kutsiva kwaChavez?
Hakuna mumwe wechimiro chaChavez. Chakanaka chingava hutungamiriri hwemubatanidzwa. Tichifunga nezvokukamukana uko rusununguko rwakabudisa mumasekete akakurumbira eLatin America, vashandi nhasi havana chokuita neavo vomunguva yaMarx; kune outsourcing, precariousness. Chinodiwa vanhu vane charisma huru uye hunhu hwakasimba kuti vaunze zvikamu zvese izvi pamwechete.
Kune mutungamiriri ane mukurumbira anoshandisa vanhu kuita zvinangwa zvake zvematongerwo enyika uye mutungamiri wechimurenga uyo, achishandisa kugona kwake, anosimudzira kukura kwevanhu. Musiyano ndewekuti wepopulist, saPerón, anopa zvinhu, asi kwete kubatsira kuti vanhu vazvimirire. Iye haasi zambuko rekukura.
Ndinoyeuka rumwe rwenzendo dzokutanga dzandakaita naChávez, nokuda kwokutsaurirwa kwechikoro. Vanhu vaikumbira zvinhu, vachimutambidza zvinyorwa. Mumwe wavo akakumbira nzira. Chávez akakurudzira kuti varonge nevamwe mumubatanidzwa kuti vawane mugwagwa. Ndiyo pfungwa yacho. Ndinotenda kuti haisi populism; hutungamiriri hwechimurenga. Ini ndinotenda maitiro eVenezuelan uye Chávez akakosha kune iyo nzira muLatin America.
ZNetwork inopihwa mari chete kuburikidza nerupo rwevaverengi vayo.
dhoneta