AMY GOODMAN: Mishumo kunze kwe Iraki vanoti kudzikama kwadzoka mumaguta mazhinji nhasi, sezvo varwi vakavimbika kumufundisi weShia Muqtada al-Sadr vakateerera kudana kwavo kuti vasabuda mumigwagwa. Vanhu vanodarika mazana mana nemakumi mashanu vanonzi vakaurayiwa kubva mauto eIraq akatanga kurwisa Sadr's Mahdi Army kupera kwemwedzi wapera. Mutungamiri Bush vakarumbidza kuputsa uku sehumbowo hwe US kubudirira mukugadzira mauto eIraqi kuti arwe ari ega. Asi mishumo yepasi inoratidza US mauto achiri kutungamira kurwiswa kwakawanda.
Muenzi wangu wekutanga nhasi apedza nguva yakawanda achifukidza US basa re Iraki. Nir Rosen achangodzoka kubva mwedzi mitatu mukati Iraki, yake yazvino kubva paakatamira Baghdad kuvhara iyo US kupindirwa muna 2003. Nir akanyorera zvinyorwa kusanganisira The New Yorker, ivo New York Times Magazine, nguva uye Harper's. Yake yazvino kutumira kubva Iraki, “Nhema Dzekuvhiya,” yakabuda mwedzi wapera muna Rolling Stone mwedzi wapera. Ndiye munyori webhuku Mudumbu reGreen Shiri: Kukunda kweVafira muIraq, iyo inobuda mwedzi uno muchikamu chechipiri. Nir Rosen anobatana nesu mu studio yedu.
Mauya.
NIR ROSEN: Ndatenda.
AMY GOODMAN: “Ngano Yokuvhiya”—nei iri ngano?
NIR ROSEN: Zvakanaka, zvakaparidzirwa nerudyi uye zvakagamuchirwa neruboshwe muU. Uye aya angori manyepo chaiwo. Mhirizhonga yakati dzikamei Baghdad, ichokwadi, asi haisi mhedzisiro yekuwedzera kwemauto eAmerica zvakananga. Icho mhedzisiro yezvimwe zvinhu zvishoma.
Chokutanga pane zvose, mhirizhonga mu Iraki yaigara yakanangana nezvinangwa, zvaive zvine musoro: bvisa maSunni kubva munzvimbo dzeShia, bvisa maShia kubva munzvimbo dzeSunni. Izvo zvinenge zvapera. Iko kunenge kusina maSunni asara mukati Baghdad, homwe shoma uye ndizvozvo. Uye saizvozvo, maShia munzvimbo dzeSunni akabviswa. Uye mauto nevakuru vehondo vakabatanidza kutonga kwavo pamusoro penzvimbo dzakasiyana siyana Baghdad uye kumwewo. Saka ndicho chikonzero chimwe, kuti kune vashoma vanhu vekuuraya. Mhirizhonga yadzikira nekuti une vanhu vashoma vekuuraya. Yakanga isiri kuzogara nekusingaperi, kunyangwe ichiri chisimba chakanyanya mukati Iraki. Uye pandakanga ndiripo, kakawanda, pakanga paine zvitunha pamberi pemba yangu, mumwe murume akapfurwa mumusoro pamberi pemba yangu. Saka haisi nzvimbo ine runyararo chaiyo.
Uye zvakare, pane zvimwe zviviri zvikonzero nei mhirizhonga yakadzikira, yatingadaidza kuti Sunni neShia kumiswa kwehondo. Mauto eMahdi, mauto eMuqtada al-Sadr, akamisa kumisa, izvo zvakashandurwa zvisirizvo sekumiswa kwehondo, mukupera kwaNyamavhuvhu 2007. Uye izvi zvakanyatsoenderana nekuderera kunoshamisa kwemhirizhonga, izvo zvinoratidza kuti vaive nehungwaru sei kune zvakawanda zvemhirizhonga. mhirizhonga. Uye chikonzero chakaita kuti vamise kumisa kurwa imhaka yekuti vakaziva kuti ndivo vainyanya kutariswa kuwedzera kwemauto eAmerica. VekuAmerica vaive voda kuvatevera. Saka iwe unogona zvakare kuzivisa kutonhora. Vakati vaizozvigadzirisa. Vakanga vaine mukurumbira wakashata, nekuti vaibatanidzwa mukuuraya kwemapoka. Vamwe vakomana vavo vakanga vasisadzoreki. Saka ivo vacharara pasi uye kumirira maAmerican kunze.
Saizvozvowo, maSunni akamisa kumisa kurwa, neimwe nzira. Maive nemauto echiSunni airwisa basa racho. Vakanga vachirwa neAl-Qaeda, nokuti nepo al-Qaeda yakanga yatanga kuuya kunzvimbo dzakawanda dzeSunni kuzovadzivirira kubva kuAmerica nemaShia, vakakurumidza kubuda musimba, uye kunyange maSunni akanga achinzwa sokuti vakanga vachirarama pasi pekutonga kwehugandanga. nema radicals aya. Vakanga vachizvidza zviremera zvechivanhu zvechiSunni. Vakanga vachivhiringa nzira dzekutengesa zvisiri pamutemo. Vakanga vachiuraya Sunni, zvakare. Saka maSunni airwisa maAmerica, airwa neAl-Qaeda, uye airwa nemauto echiShia, uye aikundwa zvachose. Vakanga vasina kubudirira mukupidigura hugaro hweAmerica nekutora simba mukati Iraki. Vakanga vabviswa kubva Baghdad. Ruzhinji rwevapoteri kunze kwe Iraki vaiva Sunni. Saka vakanga varasikirwa.
Uye kutanga muna 2006, wakavaona vachinyanya kufunga, vatungamiriri vanopikisa mukati Baghdad uye Siriya uye Jodhani: “Takarasikirwa. Toita sei manje?" Uye vakatanga kutevera al-Qaeda munzvimbo dzakawanda, nerutsigiro rwevanhu vekuAmerica. Ichi chinhu chikuru kwavari. Vakarasika, uye hezvinoi, zvino maAmerican vabva kumusana, uye vava kutonga ndima. Vanodaidzwa kunzi mapoka eKumutsa, muzviitiko zvakawanda, asi maAmerican akavadaidza akasiyana euphemisms: Vana veIraq, Vagari Venzvimbo Vanonetsekana, Critical Infrastructure Security, vazvipiri veIraqi vanozvipira - vaimbove nhengo dzekupokana, vanonzi nemaAmerican "vapanduki. ,” avo vakasarudza kwenguva pfupi kuti a hudna, kana kuti kumisa kurwa, nemaAmerican kuti vatarise muvengi wavo chaiye, maIran. Uye kana vachiti maIrani, vanoreva maShia ese. Kana uchitaura navo, vanoti pane mabasa maviri Iraki: kutorwa kweAmerica uye kutorwa kweIran. Kwavari, maShia ese anongove vanyori vechishanu veIranian, uye vanoona hurumende yeIraqi, kusvika pairipo, mauto akasiyana eShia, semaIrani, achatanga kurwa navo, nekuti maAmerican achaenda pakupedzisira.
Saka une izvi zviviri - maShia neSunni kumisa kurwa uye kudzikira kwevanhu kuuraya, kubatanidzwa kwekutonga kwatakaona nevakuru vehondo vakasiyana-siyana uye mauto mukati mese. Baghdad. Nharaunda imwe neimwe yakakomberedzwa nemadziro. Iwe une mutungamiriri wehondo kana murwi anozvitonga, izvo zvinotoita kuti zvinhu zvive nyore semutori wenhau, nekuti pane mukomana waunogona kuenda kwaari kuti uwane vimbiso yekuchengeteka. Inoitawo kuti zvinhu zvive nyore kumasangano anobatsira akaita seRed Cross. Ivo zvino vanogona kushanda sezvavanoita mukati Somaria, nekuti Iraki zvave chaizvo Somaria: varwi vakasiyana-siyana vanodzora nzvimbo dzakasiyana.
Kutaura kwehurumende hakuna musoro. Hapana hurumende mukati Iraki. Iko kuunganidzwa kwemauto akasiyana, ayo, sezvatinoona, anotorwa pakati pavo. Uye tinoona muhondo ichangoburwa yeShia-on-Shia, haisi hurumende inopikisana neMahdi Army; Iri rimwe mauto eShia, Badr Organisation iri yeIraqi Islamic Supreme Council - ndine hurombo, Supreme Islamic Iraqi Council - ine mazita akasiyana - uye Dawa, saka mauto e-pro-American Shia anotsigirwa nemaAmerican ari kurwisa bato guru reShia mu. Iraq, sangano reSadrist, rekutonga pamusoro peturf, pamusoro pezviwanikwa, uyezve pamusoro pekutonga kwehuwandu musarudzo dziri kuuya, izvo zvinogona kana kusaitika.
Uye muchokwadi, pamwe tinogona kuzviona sebudiriro yakanaka, neimwe nzira, nekuti izvi zvinoreva kupera kwehondo yevagari veSunni-Shia mu Iraki. Hapasisina Shia bloc inogona kurwisa maSunni. Muna 2006, 2007, wakaona Badr neMahdi Mauto vachidyidzana kudzinga nekuuraya maSunni mu. Baghdad. Uye zvino zvapera. Saka ikozvino isu tinogona kuona kuyambuka-masekete mibatanidzwa pakati peSunni mauto neMahdi Mauto achirwa nepro-American Shia mauto, saBadr kana seDawa.
AMY GOODMAN: Zvakadini nemari iyo US iri kuisa mukati, zvakanaka, mapoka akafanana neanonzi-zvakanaka, rimwe remazita ayo-Kumuka?
NIR ROSEN: Zvakanaka, maAmerica anoda kufunga kuti chikonzero nei varwi veSunni, kurwisana kweSunni, vakarega kurwisana navo nokuti vari kuvabhadhara, nokuti kubva pakuona kweAmerica, yaigara iri pamusoro pemari. Havana kumbonzwisisa kukosha kwepfungwa kana basa kana kuramba. Saka, kwavari, vanhu vanojoinha kushora nekuti vaida basa uye kuramba kwakakubhadhara, zvinova zvisina musoro. Ndakasangana nevakawanda vevanhu ava. Hapana akapinda mukuramba mari. Vakabatana nokuti vaidavira kuti paiva nebasa rakanga richityisidzira upenyu hwavo kana kuti nyika yavo kana kuti chitendero chavo, kana kuti vakanga vasingafariri nzira iyo hurumende itsva yairatidzika nayo, naizvozvo vakakumbanira kushora kurwisa kupambwa kweAmerica, kwete nokuda kwemari.
Uye zvino vakabatana nemapoka aya ekumuka, zvakare, kwete nekuda kwemari, asi nekuti vane chimwe chishuwo: "Hatisi kuzorwisa maAmerican izvozvi, ticharwisa maIran. Ngatibvisei vanhu vekuAmerica kumashure kwedu. " Neimwe nzira, veSunni vakatenga chaizvo maAmerican, nekuti zvino vanodzora ndima. Iwowo mauto aiuraya maShia, airova vanhu vekuAmerica mwedzi mishoma yadarika, vanga vari kutiza, vava kutonga nharaunda mukati meBaghdad nekumwewo, uye zvave zvakachengeteka kuti maSunni aende kunzvimbo idzodzo, kwete maSunni chete kubva. idzo nzvimbo, asi kunyangwe maSunni akatiza mauto echiShia kune dzimwe nzvimbo anogona kuenda ikoko. Saka une nzvimbo dzakachengeteka dzeSunni. Kubva ipapo, mapoka akasiyana eSunni anogona kubatana. Vanogona kumisa bato rezvematongerwo enyika, ravari kuyedza kuita, vozopedzisira vaedza kutorazve Baghdad kana kuti kurwazve hondo yevagari vemo.
AMY GOODMAN: Tiri kutaura naNir Rosen. Achangodzoka kubva Baghdad. Zvakadini nezvakaitika muna Basra, kukundwa kukuru kwaMaliki—kutaura idi, mamwe makuhwa okutsiviwa kwake?
NIR ROSEN: Pave nerunyerekupe rwekuti akatsiviwa kwechinguva. Iwe waive nenguva iyo maDemocratic senators aisundira kuti atore nzvimbo yake. Handifungi kuti achatsiviwa, nokuti hapana chinotsiviwa, asi izvozvo hazvina basa, nokuti ani naani ari kutungamira mukati meGreen Zone hapana mutsauko. Vanhu vari muGreen Zone havana kumbove nemhedzisiro kunze kweGreen Zone. Maliki haana mauto ake zvakadaro, saka haasi munhu ane simba kwazvo, ndosaka akasarudzwa.
Uye veAmerica vakagadzira nemaune chinzvimbo chemutungamiri we Iraki kusava nesimba. Akarambwa zvishoma kubva pane izvi, nekuti akataura kuti Mahdi Mauto akaipa kupfuura al-Qaeda, isu hatife takazotaurirana, ticharwa kusvika kumagumo. Ipapo Muqtada al-Sadr anoudza vanhu vake kuti vasiye. Kamwe kamwe zvinhu zvose zvanaka zvakare, uye kurwa kwapera. Saka anouya seanopenga.
Akauyawo-kana kuti pfungwa yeIraqi Chengetedzo Mauto yakaratidzwa kuvewo rudzi rwejee, nekuti vazhinji vacho vakaremara. Zvinonyatsozivikanwa kuti mapurisa eIraqi, mapurisa enyika, anopinzwa kana kutongwa nevatsigiri veMahdi Mauto. Asi mazhinji euto reIraqi, zvakare. Saka wakaona mauto eIraqi, ari kurwa neMahdi Mauto, akatorwa kumaodzanyemba, uye mazhinji acho aive akavimbika kuSupreme Council uye kuna Badr. Saka hapana akavimbika kuIraqi nyika pano. Asi zvatakaona zvakare ndezvekuti dai pasina mauto eAmerica, Iraqi Security Forces ingadai yakarasikirwa zvachose. Ndinoreva, maAmerican aive nhumbi dzavo dzehondo, maAmerican vaive mauto avo emuchadenga. Uye dai zvisiri izvo, saka Mauto eMahdi angadai asina chikonzero chekumisa varwi vayo.
AMY GOODMAN: Tiri kutaura naNir Rosen. Tichadzoka naye muminiti. Bhuku rake ririkubuda mwedzi unouya, Kukunda kweVatendi: Rwendo rweMutori wenhau muIraq Yakagarwa. Chikamu chake chitsva mukati Rolling Stone, “Nhema Dzekuvhiya.” Garai nesu.
[kutyora]
AMY GOODMAN: Muenzi wedu, Nir Rosen, bhuku rake riri kubuda mwedzi unouya, Kukunda kweVakafira kutenda. Achangodzoka kubva Baghdad. Patiri kutendeuka izvozvi, nekupunzika kweMahdi Mauto svondo rapfuura kwakauya mishumo inowedzera US mhirizhonga yemhepo ichiuraya vanhu vekuIraq. Aya ndiwo mazwi eIraqis anotevera matatu achangopfuura US kurwiswa muHilla, Tikrit uye Baghdad.
HILLA RESIDENT: Chii chinoita kuti tirwise? Hatina kurwisana navo kana kurwisa muzinda wemapurisa kana muzinda wemauto. Hatina kutyisidzira chero ani zvake kana kutora chikamu mukuratidzira. Hapana zviito zvehondo munharaunda yedu.
TIKRIT RESIDENT: Idzo inhengo shanu dzemhuri yangu dzandinofanira kuziva. Zvakandiremera kuvaziva sezvo mitumbi yakanga yatsva. Iyi ndiyo demokrasi yeAmerica. Idzi ndidzo kodzero dzevanhu dzakumbirwa naVaBush.
BAGHDAD RESIDENT: Tinoshora US masimba. Vakapinda mudzimba pakati pousiku, masuo edzimba nematenga anoputika, dzimba dzemhuri dzine rugare. Vakavapaza pasina, vachisunga vakadzi. Vanotenda mudemokrasi, sezvavanotaura, saka sei vakaita izvi?
AMY GOODMAN: Nir Rosen, mhinduro yako?
NIR ROSEN: Zvinongoshamisa pfungwa. Makore mashanu mushure mehondo yatinodaidza kuti hondo yerusununguko, iyo, takaudzwa, kuti tisunungure maShia, tiri kubhomba maShia. Tiri kubhomba nzvimbo dzeShia kwese Iraki, kuuraya vanhuwo zvavo vechiShia. Ndinoreva, zvakajeka kuti yave iri njodzi yakakwana. Uye the US inoramba ichiuraya vanhu vekuIraq. Pane pfungwa iyi ikozvino yekuti maAmerican vangori rudzi rwekurova mapurisa anotenderera Irakimigwagwa, inoparadzanisa mativi maviri. Icho hachisi chokwadi. Mazuva ese, vari kuuraya vanhu vekuIraq. Vanobata 24,000 Iraqi vagari mumajeri eAmerica, vanosvika zviuru makumi maviri nezvina. Havana kupomerwa mhosva ipi neipi kana kuwanikwa vaine mhosva. Vanogona kuchengetwa kwemakore. Ivo havana kupihwa kune zviremera zveIraq, icho chiri chinhu chakanaka, nekuti ivo vanozobatwa zvakanyanya mutirongo reIraq. Vanochengeta vechidiki. Vanopaza dzimba nokuputsa magonhi, vachikwevera varume kunze. Iri chaizvo richiri basa rinodzvinyirira zvikuru. Uye basa rekune dzimwe nyika kuisa kwakarongeka kwechisimba munyika yose. Basa harina kupera.
AMY GOODMAN: Basa re Iran in Iraki?
NIR ROSEN: Izvo zvakawedzeredzwa zvakanyanya nevese maAmerican uye ne IrakinaSunni. Handisati ndamboona humbowo hwebasa rakashata re Iran in Iraki, zvamazvirokwazvo kushoma kwakashata kupfuura vagari veAmerica. Iran, sezviri pachena, vanofara zvikuru kuti vatsigiri vayo veShia—Supreme Council, Dawa nemamwe—vari muhurumende. Saka hazvisi kuyedza kupidigura hurumende yeIraq, sezvairi kupomerwa. Asi ini handizvione semutsigiri mukuru wemauto, mauto eShia. Ini ndinofunga chokwadi maAmerican vanonyanya kutsigira mauto eShia, nekuti vagara vari mumubatanidzwa neSupreme Council, iyo mauto eBadr ari mumwe wevatambi vakuru muIraqi Security Forces.
Uye maSunni, munyika dzese dzechiArab, vanoda kupomera maShia ese kuti maIrani, saizvozvo Rebhanoni, kwandinogara, unonzwa vaSunni vachiti Hezbollah vamiririri vekuIran. Unonzwa President Mubarak ve Egypt kudaidza Shia vanyori vechikamu chechishanu kuti Iran. Iwe unonzwa Mambo Abdullah we Jodhani kutaura pamusoro a Shia Crescent uye zvakare kusimudzira idzi dzidziso dzekurangana nezve maIran ari kuyedza kutora nyika yeSunni.
AMY GOODMAN: Ndinoda kukubvunza nezvevamiriri vemutungamiri wenyika uye Iraki basa. Vachitaura pazuva regore rechishanu rekupinda kwechisimba, Senator Clinton aitaridza kupfupisa maonero ehutungamiriri hweDemocratic, kuti maIraqi anofanira kuzvipa mhosva izvozvi US akavapa chaakadana kuti, “chipo chinokosha chorusununguko.”
SEN. HILLARY Clinton: Ndanga ndichitsanangura zvirongwa zvezvatingaite nezvatinofanira kuita kuti titange kuunza vanakomana nevanasikana vedu kumba. Ndine chokwadi chekuti tinogona kutanga mukati memazuva makumi matanhatu tozviita nenzira ine hunyanzvi uye nekungwarira, tichiziva kuti hurumende yeIraqi inofanirwa kutora mutoro weramangwana rayo, kuti takavapa chipo chakakosha cherusununguko, uye zviri kumusoro. kuti vasarudze kuti vachaishandisa here kana kuti kwete. Asi hatigoni kukunda muhondo yavo yevagari vemo.
AMY GOODMAN: Hillary Clinton, Senator Barack Obama naJohn McCain-iwe wapinda Baghdad. Wanga uchitevera here? Uye chii chawacherechedza?
NIR ROSEN: Handisati ndaona "chipo chinokosha cherusununguko" mukati Iraki. Ndinoreva, anongozvidza zvachose. MaDemocrats kazhinji, nekuti vanga vachipomera maIraqi. Ndinoreva, tinoziva kuti maRepublicans anosemesa, kuti iyi ihondo yavo, asi maDemocrats anga achipomerawo maIraqi: "VaIraqi vanofanirwa kusarudza rusununguko. VaIraqi vanofanirwa kukwira kumusoro. "
MaIraqi vairatidzira musarudzo muna Kubvumbi 2003. Ndaivepo, uye vamwe vatori venhau vazhinji vakazvionawo. Takavanyima rusununguko. Takavanyima uchangamire. Takavanyima hurumende yavo. Takaisa nhevedzano yevadzvanyiriri pavari: Garner, Bremer, Allawi. Takatanga hondo yevagari vemo Iraki, kana kuti takazvikonzera. Iraki, nyika yakanga isati yambosangana nehondo yevagari vemo, takavaitira izvozvo. Izvi hazvina kufanana Rwanda, kwatingangoti vaHutu nemaTutsi ava vaiurayana, takanga tisina chekuita nazvo. Takaita izvi Iraki.
"Chipo chakakosha cherusununguko" - kune rusununguko rwekuuraya chero waunoda, kune rusununguko rwemauto. MaAmerican zvirokwazvo havasi vamiririri verusununguko mukati Iraki. Vakasunga makumi ezviuru zveIraqis. Vakauraya zviuru zveIraqis. Vakapa simba mauto mukati Iraki. Iko hakuna hurumende yeIraqi. Paanoti hurumende yeIraq inofanirwa kusimuka, hapana nyika yeIraq. Hazvipi masevhisi. Une mauto akasiyana-siyana anotarisira hushumiri hwakasiyana-siyana. Havana simba. Hapana magetsi, hapana simba, hapana kuchengeteka, hapana mabasa ehutano. Inyika yakakundikana. Ndizvo Somaria, nemauto akasiyana anodzora nzvimbo dzakasiyana.
AMY GOODMAN: Nir Rosen, tichazvisiya ipapo. Ndinoda kukutendai nekuva nesu, mutori wenhau anoshanda akazvimirira, shamwari pa New York yunivhesiti's Center yeMutemo uye Chengetedzo. Bhuku rake idzva, zvakanaka, riri kubuda mune yechipiri edition, Kukunda kweVatendi: Rwendo rweMutori wenhau muIraq Yakagarwa. Chinyorwa chake chazvino "Nhema Yekuvhiya" mumwedzi wapfuura Rolling Stone Magazini.
Nir Rosen, mutori wenhau akazvimirira uye mumwe munhu paNYU's Center for Law and Security. Ndiye munyori we Kukunda kweVatendi: Rwendo rweMutori wenhau muIraq Yakagarwa, iyo iri kubuda muchikamu chayo chechipiri mwedzi uno. Chinyorwa chake chazvino, "Nhema Yekuvhiya," chakaburitswa mukati Rolling Stone mwedzi wapera.
ZNetwork inopihwa mari chete kuburikidza nerupo rwevaverengi vayo.
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