JUAN GONZALEZ: Isu tinopedza awa yasara nemumwe wevanyori veLatin America vane mukurumbira: Eduardo Galeano. Mabasa ake kubva patrilogy Memory of Fire kusvika kune yekare Open Veins yeLatin America musanganiswa wakasarudzika wenhoroondo, ngano, utori venhau uye ongororo yezvematongerwo enyika. Mabhuku ake akashandurirwa mumitauro inodarika makumi maviri. Akaberekerwa muUruguay muna 20, Eduardo Galeano akatanga kunyora zvinyorwa mumapepanhau achiri mudiki. Kunyangwe chiroto chake chaive chekuve mutambi wenhabvu, pazera remakumi maviri akazove mupepeti-mukuru weLaMarcha. Makore mashoma gare gare, akatora chinzvimbo chepamusoro paMontevideo bepanhau remazuva ese Epocha. Pamakore makumi matatu nerimwe, Galeano akanyora bhuku rake rine mukurumbira rinonzi The Open Veins of Latin America: Five Centuries of the Pillage of a Continent.
AMY GOODMAN: Pashure pehondo yakaitika muna 1973 muUruguay, Galeano akaiswa mujeri uye akamanikidzwa kubuda munyika yacho. Akagara kuArgentina, kwaakatanga nekugadzirisa magazini yetsika inonzi Crisis. Mushure me "kupidigura hurumende kwemauto" 76 ikoko, zita raGaleano rakawedzerwa kune avo vakashorwa nechikwata cherufu. Akatamira kuSpain, kwaakatanga basa rake rekare rinonzi Memory of Fire, rondedzero yemavhoriyamu matatu enhoroondo yeAmerica, Maodzanyemba neMaodzanyemba. Akazodzokera kumusha kwake kuUruguay kwaanogara iye zvino. Bhuku rake razvino uno rinonzi Voices of Time: Hupenyu muNhau.
Eduardo Galeano anobatana nesu kweawa yese mustudio yedu yeFirehouse. Kugamuchirwa kuDemocracy Zvino!
EDUARDO GALEANO: Mhoro. Mhoro, Amy.
AMY GOODMAN: Zvakanaka chaizvo kuva newe nesu. Ngatitangei patakasiira mumisoro yenhau, ndiyo nyaya yeimmigration. Munoiona sei kubva kumaodzanyemba kusvika kuUnited States kuchamhembe, nyaya yemadziro, nyaya yekubatwa kwevabvakure munyika ino?
EDUARDO GALEANO: Inyaya inosiririsa. Nyaya inosuwisa zuva nezuva. Ndinoshamisika kana nguva yedu icharangarirwa senhambo, nhambo inotyisa munhau yavanhu, umo mari yakanga yakasununguka kuenda nokuuya uye kudzoka uye kuenda zvakare. Asi vanhu, kwete.
AMY GOODMAN: Wakanyora nezve kutamira kune imwe nyika mubhuku rako idzva Voices of Time.
EDUARDO GALEANO: Hongu. Pane dzimwe nyaya nezvazvo.
AMY GOODMAN: Unogona here kuverenga chidimbu?
EDUARDO GALEANO: Imwe yacho, ipfupi. Igwaro renhoroondo. Scientific. Sainzi yakachena. Chinangwa. Pane chinamato chekuona zvinhu pano, saka ndinochiremekedza. Uye izvi - iwe uchaona, iwe uchaona. “Christopher Columbus haana kukwanisa kuziva America, nekuti akange asina vhiza kana pasipoti.
“Pedro Alvares Cabral haana kukwanisa kuburuka muchikepe muBrazil, nekuti anogona kunge akatakura chibhokisi, gwirikwiti, furuwenza kana mamwe matambudziko ekunze.
“Hernan Cortes naFrancisco Pizarro havana kana kumbotanga kukunda kweMexico nePeru, nekuti vaive vasina mapepa ekushanda.
"Pedro de Alvarado akadzingwa kubva kuGuatemala, uye Pedro de Valdivia haana kana kukwanisa kupinda muChile, nekuti havana kuunza humbowo hwerekodhi yakachena.
“Uye vafambi veMayflower vakadzoserwa kugungwa kubva kumahombekombe eMassachusetts: mugove wekubvakacha wakanga wakazara.
AMY GOODMAN: Eduardo Galeano, achiverenga kubva mubhuku rake idzva Voices of Time: Hupenyu muNhau. Tichadzoka naye muminiti.
[kutyora]
AMY GOODMAN: Muenzi wedu, Eduardo Galeano, mumwe wevanyori vane mukurumbira mukondinendi ino, akaberekerwa muUruguay muna 1940, akasungwa, akamanikidzwa kubuda munyika iyi zvichitevera kumukira ikoko, munyori wemabhuku akawanda. Yake yekare, Iyo Yakavhurika Veins yeLatin America, yake ichangoburwa, Manzwi eNguva: Hupenyu muNhau. Juan?
JUAN GONZALEZ: Ndinoda kukubvunza, iwe, zviri pachena, kwemakumi emakore ikozvino wakatora shanduko huru dzanga dzichiitika muLatin America. Iwe pachako wakasungwa panguva yehudzvanyiriri hwemauto muUruguay. Iwe unoziva zvakananga nezvematambudziko eOperation Condor uye kumwe kutyisa kwakapararira mukondinendi yese mumakore iwayo. Uye iko zvino pane shanduko huru dziri kuitika munyika zhinji idzi, kana zvisiri zvehupfumi, mune zvematongerwo enyika panguva ino. Maonero ako ekuti Latin America iri kuchinja sei kana kuchinja mumakumi emakore achangopfuura?
EDUARDO GALEANO: Hongu, ndinofunga kuti zviitiko zvose izvi zvichangobva kuitika, sarudzo dzakakundwa nemasimba anofambira mberi uye zvakawanda zvakasiyana-siyana zvinofamba, zvakafanana nechinhu chiri kufamba uye chinoratidza chido, chido chekuchinja, asi isu tiri kutakura mutoro unorema zvikuru. misana yedu, inova yandinodaidza kuti “tsika yechivanhu yekushaya simba,†inova chinhu chinokushora, chinokutongesa kuva chirema nekusingaperi, nekuti kune tsumo yetsika neinodzokororwa, "Haugone." Iwe haugone kufamba nemakumbo ako. Iwe haugone kufunga nemusoro wako. Iwe haugone kunzwa nemoyo wako, uye saka unosungirwa kutenga makumbo, moyo, pfungwa, kunze sezvigadzirwa zvekunze. Uyu ndiye muvengi wedu mukuru, ndinofunga.
JUAN GONZALEZ: Zvakawanda zvekunyora kwako ndezvendangariro. Iwe unoti dambudziko guru re amnesia muLatin America. Ungataura nezvazvo zvishoma here?
EDUARDO GALEANO: Ehe. Zvinorambidzwa kurangarira. Ini handisi murudo nezvakaitika kare, munoziva. Semuyenzaniso, ndiri mushanyi akaipa kwazvo mumamyuziyamu, nekuti ndinokurumidza kufinhwa, uye ndinogara ndichida hupenyu hwehupenyu uye nemazuva ano. Asi hapana muganho pakati pekare neazvino apo iwe unogona kudzokorora zvekare uye woita kuti ive mhenyu zvakare. Uye zvino zvingava girazi rakanaka kuti uzvitarise uye unzwisise. Zvichida zvingabatsira kunzwisisa zvauri kuitika iye zvino, chokwadi chako chazvino. Kana usingazivi kwaunobva, zvingava zvakaoma kunzwisisa kwauri kuenda.
AMY GOODMAN: Eduardo Galeano, wakataura neWorld Social Forum muBrazil, uye musi waFebruary 15, 2003, manheru ekurwisa kweUS muIraq, vakakukumbira kuti utaure kune vese, iwe wawakanzi "Kuti Kwete. ” Wanga uchifunga nezvei?
EDUARDO GALEANO: Hongu, ichokwadi. Handichayeuke chaizvo, asi ndinofunga ndakati iyi yaive hondo yematsotsi kutsvaga mafuta, kuti kana - ini ndisingayeuke chaizvo, asi chingave chinhu sekuti, zvakanaka, kana Iraq ikaburitsa matomatisi kana makarotsi, hapana munhu. aizoipinda. Nyika yakapindirwa nezvimwe zvikonzero, zvisina kureurura. Iyo alibi yaive panguva iyoyo kuti Iraq yaive njodzi kuvanhu, zvombo zvakakura zvekuparadza, kufungidzirwa kuwirirana kana kutora chikamu kwaSaddam Hussein mukurwisa kwaGunyana 11.
Amai vangu vaigaroti — kundiudza ndichiri mwana mudiki, “Nhema dzine makumbo mapfupi.” Amai varombo. Akanga asina kururama. Nhema dzine makumbo akareba kwazvo, uye dzinomhanya, nekukurumidza, nekukurumidza kupfuura varevi venhema. Nokuti shure kwaizvozvo, muUnited States, muGreat Britain, kwese kwese, kwakanga kune kuzivikanwa kwepamutemo kuti yakanga isiri yechokwadi, kuti yakanga iri kugadzirwa, kuti zvombo zvokuparadza kukuru zvakanga zvisipo uye kuti Saddam Hussein akanga asina chokuita nehondo. Twin Towers njodzi. Asi zvakadaro, kune vanhu vazhinji vachiri kutenda kuti chaive chokwadi, uye nekuona kuti iyi inogona kunge iri tsananguro yakanaka yehondo iyi isina musoro. Zvakawanda kana zvishoma chaive chinhu chakadai.
AMY GOODMAN: Unofunga kuti zvakanaka here kutaura kuti Iraq yakachengetedza Latin America, kuti nekutarisisa kweMutungamiri Bush paIraq, tiri kuona Latin America ichienda nenzira yakasiyana?
EDUARDO GALEANO: Hapana anoti, hmm? Ini ndinofunga ichokwadi apo Mutungamiri Bush anotiudza zuva rega rega kuti tiri kutambura nenjodzi huru dzekurwiswa nehugandanga. Ichokwadi. Uye hugandanga hwakaita hondo yeIraq, uye vanogona - nhasi kana mangwana, ini handizive - kupinda mune imwe nyika yeLatin America. Itsika yehugandanga, simba reimperiyasi munyika. Ndiani anoziva? Hatina kuchengeteka. Hauna kuchengeteka. Hapana akachengeteka kubva pakurwiswa kunobvira kubva muchina uyu wehondo, ichi chikuru chimiro chatakavaka - ivo vakavaka, muchikamu chepasi rose. Iyi $2,600 million yaipedza zuva rega rega kuuraya vamwe vanhu, muchina uyu wekuuraya vanhu, kudya upfumi hwenyika, kudya hupfumi hwenyika zuva rega rega. Saka ichi chimiro chegandanga zvechokwadi, uye isu tiri munjodzi, saka Mutungamiri Bush akarurama, ndinofunga. Tiri kutambudzwa nemagandanga.
JUAN GONZALEZ: Imwe yekuchinja kukuru, inoratidzika kwandiri, muLatin America, yanga iri, kunyanya mumakore gumi kana maviri apfuura, rudzi rwekusimuka kwezvido zvekodzero, kungave kuChiapas kuMexico kana Evo Morales uye chii zviri kuitika muEcuador. Pfungwa yako yeiyi refu - nekuti wanyora nezvazvo. Iwe wakanyora nezvazvo muOpen Veins yeLatin America, kuti vanhu vekuLatin America, kwenguva yakareba vakadzvinyirirwa uye vachichengetwa pasi nemulatto kana maWhite elites enyika idzodzo, uye kuti shanduko iyi iri kuita sei mukondinendi.
EDUARDO GALEANO: Imwe yetsika dzekare muAmerica, ese America, nekuti isu tiri America zvakare. Zita rekuti “America†rakapambwa neUnited States. Chaizvoizvo, isu tiri chikamu cheAmerica, kwete? Uye saka mumatatu - muAmerica yose, kubva kuNorth kusvika kuSouth, kubva kuAlaska kusvika kuChile, imwe yetsika dzakanakisisa ndeyekuzivikanwa pakati peshoko uye chokwadi mumutauro weIndia. Ndinoreva chimiro chinoera che, chimiro chinoera chezwi, chemutauro. Uye ichi chinhu chisingawanzoitiki mutsika dzakasimba, asi vakachichengeta chiri mhenyu, kutenda uku pamashoko, pasimba rinoera remashoko.
Bolivia parizvino yave nemutungamiri weIndia, Evo Morales. Pakutanga kwaiva kunyadzisa. Evo Morales, purezidhendi weIndia, uye muIndia akanga asinganyare kuva zvaari. Kutanga scandal. Kunyomba kwaizove chokwadi chekuti Bolivia yakatora mazana maviri emakore kuona kuti yaive nyika ine ruzhinji rweIndia muhuwandu, uye zvingave zvakajairwa kuti vave nemutungamiri weIndia saEvo Morales. Asi ichi chaive chitsotsi chekutanga.
Iye zvino tave nechipiri, uye chechipiri chinonyadzisa chakabva mukuremekedzwa kwakadzama kwaEvo Morales kune iyi tsika yeIndia yekuzvipira kumashoko. Nei vanhu vakawanda kudaro vachimutsamwira? Nokuti akagadza mafuta negasi munyika. Ndizvo. Akaita zvaakavimbisa kuti aizoita, chinova chivi chikuru kubva mumaonero ehurongwa hwakavakirwa panhema, hunokudzidzisa kunyepa zuva nezuva neusiku hwega hwega, kunyangwe uchirota kana kurota zvinotyisa.
AMY GOODMAN: Uye ongororo yako, Eduardo Galeano, weMutungamiriri weVenezuelan Hugo Chavez uye nekunetsana uku kwaari neMutungamiriri weUnited States, Mutungamiri Bush?
EDUARDO GALEANO: Chii chandinofunga nezvazvo? Kwete, ndinofunga kuti Chavez ari kubatwa nedhimoni. Ndinoreva kuti mumwe wemadhimoni. Handizivi kuti achange ari dhimoni mangwana here kana kuti kwete, asi iye zvino ava dhimoni rakanaka, rinobatsira kuhondo yepasi rose inogara ine nzara yemadhimoni. Ndinoreva kuti, ivo vanoda madhimoni kururamisa chokwadi chekuti nyika iri kungoshandisa mari yakawanda muindasitiri yemauto. Saka, zvombo zvinoda hondo, uye hondo dzinoda alibis, uye alibis madhimoni, masimba akaipa ayo ari njodzi yedu yezuva nezuva. Uye saka vakagadzira kuti Chavez angave njodzi kuvanhu uye kuti mudzvanyiriri uye mudzvanyiriri. Akakunda musarudzo sere. Zvinoshamisa, kuva mudzvanyiriri, sarudzo sere dzakachena dzakahwinwa naye.
Ndakanga ndiri mucherechedzi wepasi rese mune iyi plebiscite yaakaita - ini handichayeuke izvozvi, asi chimwe chinhu chakaita makore akati wandei apfuura - izvo zvaive zvakasarudzika munhoroondo yevanhu. Kekutanga, pamwe, apo mutungamiri wenyika aizoti kuvanhu, “Heino nzvimbo yangu, basa rangu. Kana ukafunga kuti handisi mutungamiri akanaka, ipapo ndichabuda,†uye vanhu vakavhota kuti arambe ari pachigaro. Jimmy Carter aivewo mucherechedzi wepasi rese. Takashanda pamwe chete - naGaviria, uye takabvumirana, chokwadi chekuti iyi yaive sarudzo yakachena. Ipapo handisati ndamboona nyaya yemudzvinyiriri ichisimbiswa nenzira yedemocracy kakawanda kudaro. Zvinoshamisa.
Ruvengo urwu rwunobva kupi? Zvichida - zvichida, handizivi, nokuti iye mudiwa chaiye. Ndinoreva kuti ari kutarisira vanhu vake munyika yake. Uye kuda nyika mazuva ano iropafadzo yenyika dzakapfuma. Kana iwe uri mutungamiri wenyika yechitatu yepasirese, saka kuda nyika yako kwaizogara kuchingofungira kuve populism kana hugandanga kana chimwe chinhu - chimwe -ism - handizive - kutyisa, vanogona kugadzira kunyengedza rudo rwaunonzwa kune wako. vanhu vake.
JUAN GONZALEZ: Ndinoda kutendeukira kwechinguva kune maitiro ako ekunyora. Unoshora kurongeka maererano nemhando dzemabhuku aunoburitsa. Icho chikamu chenhetembo, chikamu chekuongorora zvematongerwo enyika.
EDUARDO GALEANO: Hongu
JUAN GONZALEZ: Iwe hauteveri nhaurwa refu yekurondedzera, asi unosanganisa zvidimbu zvematepi. Iwe wakakudziridza sei chimiro ichocho? Sei wafunga kunyora nenzira iyoyo?
EDUARDO GALEANO: Handina kumbobvira ndasarudza. Chinhu - ndakanyorwa nemabhuku angu. Ndinoreva, vanondinyorera, saka ini handimbofungi chero chinhu. Zvakanaka, ndaigara ndichitsvaga mutauro unogona kubatanidza zvese zvakarambwa netsika, semuenzaniso, moyo nepfungwa. Saka ndanga ndichitsvaga mutauro unofunga, sentipensante, “kunzwa-kufunga.†Iri izwi. Handina kuumba shoko. Iri izwi randakanzwa makore apfuura mumhenderekedzo yeColombia. Mumwe mubati wehove akandiudza kuti, “Hay gigrere en las palabras sentipensantes,” pandakamuudza kuti ndaiva munyori. "Ah, iwe uri munyori." "Ehe." “Oo.” Uye akandibvunza kana ndanga ndichishandisa mutauro wesentipensante, mutauro unofunga. Uye saka, akanga ari tenzi. Ndinoreva, ndakadzidza zvakawanda kubva mumutsara uyu zvachose. Ini ndiri sesentipensante.
Ini ndinofunga imwe yekurambana kwakadzivirira kubatanidzwa kuzere kwemamiriro emunhu ndiko kurambana pakati pemanzwiro edu nemazano edu. Mune kumwe kurambana, kupatsanura vatori venhau, semuenzaniso, vatori venhau, vachiti, zvakanaka, iyi rondedzero. Iyi inhetembo. Iri ibhuku. Izvi - handizivi kuti chii. Uye ini handitendi kune miganhu. Ndinofunga kuti kwete - handitendi zvachose mumiganhu. Uye zvino, ndaizodzidzira sei alguanas, ndingati, kudzora kwekufamba pakati pevanyori venhau? Ndinotenda kuti-
AMY GOODMAN: Iwe hautendi mumiganhu.
EDUARDO GALEANO: Kwete. Ndinofunga kuti kana nyika-zvichida rimwe zuva nyika, nyika, nyika yedu, isingaite yakatsikitsira, uye ipapo chero munhu achangozvarwa achagamuchirwa. Vachiti, “Titambire. Uya. Pinda. Nyika yose ichava umambo hwenyu. Makumbo ako achava pasipoti yako, inoshanda nekusingaperi. Uye kwandiri, izvi ndezvechokwadi zvakare kumashoko. Ndinoreva, chinhu chimwe chete nemashoko, vanhu, mazwi. Ndinonyatso tenda muhupamhi hwepasi rose hwemamiriro emunhu, kwete kudyidzana kwepasi rose, inova chikamu chepasi rose chemari, asi chidimbu chepasi rose chezvishuwo zvedu zvevanhu.
AMY GOODMAN: Eduardo Galeano, isu tinofanirwa kutyora kwechinguva, asi isu tichadzoka. Eduardo Galeano munyori we, pakati pemamwe mabhuku, ake azvino, Manzwi Enguva: Hupenyu muNhau.
AMY GOODMAN: Muenzi wedu weawa iyi ndiEduardo Galeano, mumwe wevanyori vane mukurumbira muLatin America, akaberekerwa muUruguay, anogara ikoko zvino, aifanira kubva mushure mekupidigura hurumende, akaiswa mujeri kwechinguva ikoko, akanyora mabhuku akawanda, ivo vake vekare The Open Veins yeLatin America, trilogy yake Memory of Fire, bhuku rake richangoburwa Voices of Time: A Life in Stories. Iwe wakanyora zvakare Soccer muZuva uye Mumvuri. Mutambo weWorld Cup uri kuuya kuGermany mumavhiki mashoma.
EDUARDO GALEANO: Ehe.
AMY GOODMAN: Iwe uri munyori mukuru, asi kwanga kusiri shuviro yako yepamusoro. Kwaiva kuva mutambi wenhabvu. Taura nezvekukosha kwenhabvu.
EDUARDO GALEANO: Vese vekuUruguay. Tose tinoda kuva vatambi venhabvu, uye handina kukwanisa, nokuti ndakanga ndakashata zvikuru muminda. MuUruguay, mune - como se llama, maternidades? — maternity, vane ruzha, nekuti vana vese vanozvarwa vachichema, “Gooooool! Goooool! Goooool!’ Zvinotyisa ku - haugone kumira nazvo. Vanofanira kuramba vakanyarara, vakanyarara.
Uye izvo zvakati, inguva yedu yenyika. Uruguay yaive shasha yepasirese kaviri, pamberi peWorld Cup yekutanga mumitambo miviri yeOlympic: ’24, ‘28. Gare gare shasha yekutanga yenyika yaive muMontevideo muUruguay. Uye gare gare, takave zvakare shasha dzepasi rose muna 1950, tichipokana nehumbowo hwese, nekuti Uruguay inyika diki. Tiri mamiriyoni matatu. Hapana. Vanhu vashoma kupfuura chero nharaunda muBuenos Aires kana Sao Paulo. Uye zvakadaro, takakwanisa kudaro, uyezve chitupa chenyika.
Vese vekuUruguay inyanzvi munhabvu. Ndicho chikonzero pandakanyora bhuku, ndichiedza kuita nemaoko zvandaisakwanisa kuita nemakumbo angu, ndakanga ndichiita zvekuvhunduka, nokuti vanhu vose veUruguay vanoziva zvose zvebhola. Inyanzvi dzenhabvu. Uye mazuva ano nhabvu yedu chaiyo - ndinoreva, vatambi vedu vari kutamba havasi ivo vakanyanya kunaka munyika. Isu tiri kunze kweinotevera -
AMY GOODMAN: Nhabvu nezvematongerwo enyika zvinopindirana sei?
EDUARDO GALEANO: Kwese, mazuva ese, nhabvu inopa simba mazuva ano. Silvio Berlusconi mhedzisiro yekubudirira kweMilan kirabhu muItaly. Uye vanenge vese vezvematongerwo enyika munyika dzeLatin vane hukama hwepedyo kwete chete nemutungamiri wenyika kana vezvematongerwo enyika, asi kunyangwe vadzvanyiriri vemauto. Chimwe chezviito zvekutanga zvaGeneral Pinochet muChile kwaiva kuva mutungamiri wechikwata chenhabvu chakakurumbira zvikuru, Colo-Colo, nokuti ainyatsoziva kuti bhora ndiro tsime remukurumbira nesimba.
JUAN GONZALEZ: Zvakaita seGeorge Bush ane Texas Ranger, handiti?
EDUARDO GALEANO: Ehe. Zvingave zvakaenzana, hongu. Asi, ndinoreva kuti, munoziva, ibhizimusi repamusoro. Mazuvano haisiriyo sosi yemukurumbira, asiwo bhizinesi hombe mufutbol - nhabvu, sezvaunoidana muno muAmerica. Asi ini handizivi kuti sei chishamiso chiripo, uye nhabvu inogara ichikwanisa kukupa mabiko, mabiko kumaziso achiiona kana ichinyatsotambwa kwazvo uye mabiko kumakumbo paunenge uchitamba. Uye dziripo, dzichiripo. Handizivi kuti sei, asi varipo. Ronaldino, semuenzaniso. Vatambi vanokwanisa kuridza nekuda kwemufaro, kunakidzwa kwekutamba, pane kutamba nekuti ivo vanosungirwa kuzviita, nehunyanzvi vanosungirwa kuzviita. Zvakafanana nesarudzo. Tese tiri kuita zuva rega rega, kuva sezvatiri, tinosungirwa kurarama hupenyu sebasa, asi muchivande tichida kurirarama semutambo.
JUAN GONZALEZ: Ndinoda kukubvunza, wakatanga semutori wenhau, uye zviri pachena kuti kutapa nhau muLatin America kune tsika refu yekuve incubator yevatungamiriri vezvematongerwo enyika muLatin America. Asi pfungwa yako yekuti journalism yakachinja sei mumakore achangopfuura ikoko? Ndinoreva, muno muUnited States, kune kurwa kukuru pamusoro pekuwanda kuri kuita varidzi.
EDUARDO GALEANO: Hongu.
JUAN GONZALEZ: Uye ndinoziva muLatin America kune maketani makuru eVenevision neGlobalvision. Utori venhau hwakachinja sei muLatin America mumakore achangopfuura?
EDUARDO GALEANO: Ehe, kune kuwanda kwesimba mazuva ano pamwero wepasi rose, muLatin America uye kwese kwese, kunyangwe muno muNyika. Uye izvi hazvina kunaka. Kwete nhau dzakanaka kuvanhu, uku kusangana kwesimba, nekuti kunotyisidzira kudzikisa rusununguko rwekutaura kune rusununguko rwekudzvanyirirwa. Ndinoreva kuti, inova rombo rakanaka reboka diki remabhizinesi, ari kuvhara mafekitori makuru emaonero everuzhinji pasi rose.
Asi democracy yavepo, uye dzimwe nzvimbo dzakawanda dzakasununguka dzakavhurika kwese kwese. Vane nzvimbo yakamanikana mazuva ano. Kana ukaenzanisa, semuenzaniso, chikamu chenhau dzakazvimiririra muma ‘40s kana ‘50s, hafu yezana rapfuura, nechikamu chaicho, chikamu chiripo, zvinotyisa. Ndinoreva, zvinotyisa, kusungirirwa kwezvinhu zvose. Asi pane nzira itsva, indaneti zvichingodaro, dziri kupa kutaura kwevasina inzwi kana mafambiro anoshoropodzwa kuti ari kunzwika mucampana de palo — zvakamira sei? - mumabhero emapuranga.
AMY GOODMAN: Mabhero emapuranga, hongu.
AMY GOODMAN: Mumabhero emapuranga. Uye idzi nzira nyowani dziri kuputika munyika yazvino nekuvhurwa, dzichiwedzera nzvimbo dzekutaura kwakazvimirira. Ini zvino ndapfidza, nokuti ndakanga ndisingatendi mazviri pakutanga. Ndinoreva, ini handina kuvimba nazvo, iyi internet yese uye zvichingodaro, iyo cybernetic nzira nyowani dze - kwete, ini ndaipokana nazvo, nekuti ndaigara ndiine fungidziro yakasimba yekuti michina inonwa husiku. Kana pasina anodziona, dzinonwa. Uye zvino, zuva rinotevera, vanoita njodzi dzemarudzi ose - asi mazuva ano ndinobvuma kuti chimwe chinhu chitsva uye inopa tariro - nokuti internet yakaberekerwa zvinangwa zvehondo, zvakatsanangurwa nePentagon kuronga pasi rose maitiro avo. Uye mazuva ano, iri kushanda zvakare nekuda kwemauto uye bhizinesi uye zvichingodaro, asi iri kuvhura nzvimbo dzekufema, kufema, izvo zvatinoda zvakanyanya.
AMY GOODMAN: Eduardo Galeano, ndaida kubvunza mumwe mubvunzo nezve kutapi venhau, zvine chekuita nezviri kuitika kuvatori venhau muIraq. Huwandu hwevatapi venhau vakaurayiwa, hunoratidzika kunge vanopfuura zana ikozvino, vatori venhau vekuMadokero, vatori vemifananidzo, vhidhiyo nevanyori, uye kunyanya vatori venhau vekuIraq neArab.
EDUARDO GALEANO: Ehe, kunyanya. Vazhinji vavo, hongu.
AMY GOODMAN: Mifungo yako pamusoro pesimba renhau uye simba remifananidzo, kunyanya munguva yehondo?
EDUARDO GALEANO: Muzvikamu zverufu, nekuti, chokwadi, mutori wenhau wekune dzimwe nyika akakosha kupfuura mutori wenhau weIraqi akafa, uye izvi zvinodaro nekuti nyika, nyika yese, ichiri kurwara nerusarura. Uye saka, isu tine vagari vekirasi yekutanga, yechipiri kirasi, yechitatu kirasi, yechina, uye zvitunha zvekirasi yekutanga, yechipiri, yechitatu, yechina. Kana iwe ukakwanisa kugadzira chikamu chevanhu vakaurayiwa, vanhuwo zvavo vakaurayiwa muhondo yeIraq, vazhinji vacho vakadzi nevana, zvichienderana nehuwandu hweUS, inotyisa sifra, nhamba.
JUAN GONZALEZ: Mufananidzo.
EDUARDO GALEANO: Mufananidzo. Hafu yemiriyoni. Zvingaita hafu yemiriyoni. Unogona kufungidzira kunyomba kwacho here? Zvaizotora zviuru zvemakore kuti zvizvikanganwe. Hafu yemiriyoni vanhu vekuAmerica - vekuAmerica, sezvazvakarehwa - vazhinji vavo vakadzi nevana, vakaurayiwa nekurwiswa kwekunze? Iraq inopinda muUnited States nekuuraya hafu yemiriyoni vanhu pano? Mamireniyumu, zvingatora kuti uzvikanganwe. Asi sezvavari maIraqi, tinoverenga zuva rega rega mumapepanhau, tichidzokorora, vanhu makumi matatu vakaurayiwa, vanhu makumi mashanu vakaurayiwa, 30 vanhu vakaurayiwa. Inoshanduka kuva tsika, chimwe chinhu chakajairika, sechikamu chezvakasikwa. Uye zvimwe chete kuvatori venhau. Zvinosuwisa kuzvitaura, asi hupenyu humwe hwemuIraq hauna kufanana neBritish kana US kana French kana chero humwe hupenyu hwakatorwa nebasa rakanaka rekutaura zviri kuitika [zvisinganzwike].
AMY GOODMAN: Iwe unoita sei muhunyanzvi hwako hwekunyora munguva yakaoma kudaro, yekusuwa izvozvi? Unobvisa sei musoro wako? Chimiro chako chii? Isabel Allende, akanyora sumo yeichangoburwa yeOpen Veins yeLatin America, yaakataura nezvayo - anotanga pazuva rimwe chete mugore, muna Ndira, kana akambotanga bhuku. Unozviita sei?
EDUARDO GALEANO: Kwete, handina kana chirango. Ndakadzidza kunyora chaizvo kubva mumhanzi, muimbi weCuba. Akaridza chigubhu, tambor, muSantiago makore mazhinji apfuura. Aive mashiripiti chaiwo. Ngoma iyi yainakidza ichirira pasi pano asi yakananga kudenga. Zvaishamisa zvokuti ndakamubvunza kuti, “Ndapota ndipewo zvakavanzika zvako.†Uye akati, “Yo toco cuando me pica la mano.†Zvino unofanira kundipopotera, nokuti handigoni kuzvitaura nechiRungu.
JUAN GONZALEZ: Ndinotamba kana ruoko rwangu rwatanga kukwenya.
EDUARDO GALEANO: Ndizvozvo. Uye ndinonyora kana ruoko rwangu rwatanga kuvava. Ndinoreva kuti, handimbozvipa mirairo, ndichiti “Iye zvino, unofanira kunyora,†kana kuti “Unofanira kunyora nezvenyaya iyi,†kana kuti “Unofanira kutaura ichi kana icho,†kana kuti - kwete. Ndinozvisiya. Ngazvidaro. Ndinoisiya sechinhu chiri kukura mukati. Uye ibasa rakaoma. Imwe neimwe yeiyi nyaya pfupi, yakawanda yekunyora, ine, dzimwe dzacho 20, 30, 40 shanduro dzisati dzabudiswa. Zvakandiomera chaizvo.
AMY GOODMAN: Unogona kutiverengera yekupedzisira?
EDUARDO GALEANO: Hongu. “Muzhizha ra1972, Carlos Lenkersdorf akanzwa izwi iri kekutanga.
“Akanga akokwa kugungano remaIndia eTzetzal mutaundi reBachajon, uye hapana chaaiziva. Akanga asina kujairana nomutauro wacho, uye kwaari kurukurirano yakakasharara yainzwika semvura inopenga.
“Izwi rekuti tik rakauya nekunaya kwemvura. Wese munhu akazvitaura, akazvidzokorora - tik, tik tik - uye pitter-patter yayo yakasimuka pamusoro pemanzwi. Yakanga iri gungano mukiyi yetik.
“Carlos aivepo nguva zhinji, uye aiziva kuti pandimi dzese ndini izwi rinonyanya kushandiswa. I. Asi tik, izwi rinopenya pamwoyo wekutaura nekuita kwenharaunda dzeMaya idzi, rinoreva "isu."
JUAN GONZALEZ: Ndinoda kukubvunza, maererano neyako - une mukana izvozvi, uye uchatenderera United States kuti utore meseji kuvanhu vekuAmerica. Urwu ndirwo rudzi rune simba pasi rose. Isu pamwe tiri humambo hukurusa hwati hwamboonekwa nenyika. Nderipi basa revanhu vekuAmerica munyika nhasi, uye chii chinofanira kunge chiri basa ravo, rakasiyana nerehurumende?
EDUARDO GALEANO: Hongu. Ndinovimba vanogona kunzwa mamwe mazwi. Uye zvaizobatsira kunzwisisa kuti nyika yakawanda kupfuura iyo US yandiri kureva, iyi inyika yakakosha, chokwadi. Uye ndinobva kunyika diki. Vanhu vazhinji havatombozivi kwachiri. Asi isu tose takakosha. Tose tinokwanisa kutaura chimwe chinhu chakakodzera kunzwiwa. Uye pandakanga ndichigara muno munguva yandakanga ndave mukati memwedzi mitatu, mina, ndichidzidzisa pane imwe yunivhesiti, zvichingodaro, ndakashamiswa nechokwadi chokuti nyika yakanga isipo kune vezvenhau, nokuda kwenhau huru. Yakanga isipo. Zvinenge pasina nhau pamusoro penyika. Uye pakauya nhau, vazhinji vevanhu havana kuziva kuti ndezvei. Mumwe wevatenzi vangu, Ambrose Pierce, zana rimwe rapfuura akati, “Hondo hadzina kunyanyoipa. Zvirinani kuUS Kwatiri, hondo hadzina kushata. Hondo dzinotidzidzisa geography.â€
AMY GOODMAN: Eduardo Galeano, ndinoda kukutendai zvikuru nekuva nesu, mumwe wevanyori vakuru munyika nhasi, bhuku rake richangoburwa Voices of Time: A Life in Stories.
ZNetwork inopihwa mari chete kuburikidza nerupo rwevaverengi vayo.
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