AMY GOODMAN: Asilikali a Israeli akukankhira mozama
Asilikali aku Israeli akupitiliza kuzungulira
Chiwerengero cha anthu omwe anamwalira tsopano chikuyandikira pafupifupi 900 Palestine, ambiri mwa iwo wamba, kuphatikiza ana 275. Anthu enanso 4,100 aku Palestine avulala. Anthu khumi ndi atatu a Israeli aphedwa, kuphatikiza anthu wamba atatu omwe adawombedwa ndi roketi ndi asitikali khumi. Anai mwa asilikaliwo anafa pa ngozi zoyaka moto.
Mabungwe opereka chithandizo akuchenjeza za vuto lothandizira anthu mu
Lachiwiri, Prime Minister waku Israeli Ehud Olmert adati kuukiraku kuyandikira zolinga zake koma kumenya kupitilirabe. Olmert analankhulanso mosagwirizana ndi zimene bungwe la UN Security Council linalimbikitsa kuti lithetse nkhondo mwamsanga, ponena kuti, โPalibe amene ayenera kuloledwa kutisankhira ngati atilola kunyanyala ntchito. Onse a Hamas ndi
Tsopano titembenukira ku mkangano pankhaniyi. Loya Lanny Davis ali nafe. Ndi mlangizi wamkulu komanso wolankhulira bungwe la Israel Project, yemwe kale anali phungu wapadera kwa Purezidenti Clinton. Alumikizana nafe kuchokera ku Washington, DC Kulumikizana nafe pamzere wochokera ku Beersheba, Israel ndi Neve Gordon. Iye ndi wapampando wa dipatimenti ya ndale ndi boma, Ben-Gurion University of the Negev. Iye ndi mlembi wa Ntchito ya Israeli.
Takulandirani nonse Demokarase Tsopano! Lanny Davis, mukuthandizira kwathunthu kuwukira kwa Israeli. Tiuzeni chifukwa chake.
LANNY DAVIS: Ufulu wodziteteza. Uchigawenga ukapha anthu osalakwa mwadala, palibe dziko lotukuka padziko lapansi lomwe silingabwerere kuti liletse uchigawengawo. Ndimagwiritsa ntchito "uchigawenga" ndi mawu omveka bwino. Chipani chikawombera kuti chiphe anthu osalakwa mwadala ndi cholinga cha ndale, kuphatikizapo nzika zake kuti ziphedwe pazifukwa za ndale, umenewo ndi uchigawenga. Chifukwa chake ndimachirikiza ufulu wodziteteza ku uchigawenga, monga momwe dziko lililonse lingachitire ngati izi zikuchitika, ndikukhulupirira. Ndipo United States ndithudi akanatero. Zikanakhala kuti Rochester akukumana ndi matope ndi maroketi ochokera ku Montreal, ndikukhulupirira kuti United States sikanakhala pansi ndikulola anthu a ku Canada kuti achite zimenezo. Chifukwa chake ndikuganiza kuti ufulu woyamba komanso wopambana kwambiri ndi ufulu wodziteteza ku uchigawenga, womwe ndikupha mwadala anthu wamba.
AMY GOODMAN: Ndipo kuchuluka kwa nkhani, kuchuluka kwa anthu omwe tawawona atamwalira, pafupifupi 900 Palestine, opitilira 200 a iwo anali ana, osakhala wamba, motsutsana ndi ma Israeli khumi ndi atatu omwe amwalira, khumi mwa iwo asirikali, anayi aiwo pamoto waubwenzi.
LANNY DAVIS: Inde, nโzodetsa nkhawa kwambiri kuti ku Gaza kulinso imfa zambiri ndiponso kuzunzika kwa anthu osalakwa. Ndikumva chisoni komanso ndikunong'oneza bondo kuti monga munthu, monga wa ku America, monga Myuda yemwe wakhala akuthandiza dziko la Palestine kuyambira ndili mwana ndipo ndakhala wotsutsa kwambiri m'zaka za boma la Israeli lomwe silinachirikize dziko la Palestina mpaka posachedwapa. Chifukwa chake ndikumva chisoni chifukwa cha manambala amenewo, koma sindikumvetsetsa mawu oti "osagwirizana."
Nambala wani, ngati anali mwana mmodzi, ngati anali mwana wanu amene anaphedwa mwadala ndi zigawenga, ndipo munapempha boma lanu kuti liyankhe, ndipo kuti ayankhe, anthu omwe anawombera miyalayi anaika miyala yawo pakati pa ana asukulu ndi anthu wamba osalakwa. Mwadala-ndipo ichi ndi chowonadi chosatsutsika kuti Hamas idayika zida zake za rocket mwadala pakati pa anthu wamba m'sukulu, pansi pa zipatala-ndiye kuti imfa yatsoka ndi yoopsa ya anthu wamba ikuyenera kukhala chifukwa cha njira yomwe Hamas adawerengera kuti aphe anthu wamba. koma ndithudi sichichotsa ku mawu anga oyambirira a mantha ndi chisoni cha anthu wamba osalakwa, kaya ndi mwana mmodzi ku Israel kapena ana zana ku Palestine kapena ku Gaza. Kwa ine, iwonso ali omvetsa chisoni. Palibe disproportionality. Iwonso ali omvetsa chisoni.
AMY GOODMAN: Pulofesa Neve Gordon, inu ndi banja lanu mwakhala nthawi yambiri mukubisala mabomba polimbana ndi maroketi a Hamas ku Ben-Gurion University, mโdera lozungulira Ben-Gurion University kumene mukukhala. Mwayitana kuti kuwukiridwako kuthe tsopano. Chifukwa chiyani?
NEVE GODON: Ndikanapempha kuti kuwukiridwa kusayambe. Tidangokhala ndi roketi pano pafupifupi ola lapitalo, ndipo nkhaniyo-ndikugwirizana ndi zina zomwe Lanny akunena. Choyamba, ndikugwirizana ndi lingaliro la ufulu wodzitetezera. Ndipo ufulu wodziteteza ndi ufulu wodziteteza ku chiwawa. Tiyenera kumvetsetsa kuti ntchito yokhayo ndi yachiwawa. Ndi mchitidwe wachiwawa. Kuika anthu mโndende, mโndende ya anthu miliyoni imodzi ndi theka ndi kuwasunga mโndendemo kwa zaka zambiri popanda chakudya chofunika, popanda kuwalola kulowa ndi kutuluka pamene afuna, ndi chiwawa. Popanda magetsi, popanda madzi oyera, zonsezi ndi zachiwawa. Ndipo anthu awa akutsutsa. Ndikutsutsana ndi momwe akukanira, koma tiyenera kuyang'ana nkhanza zawo motsutsana ndi ziwawa zathu.
Pafupifupi anthu khumi ndi makumi awiri, a Israeli, amwalira ndi maroketi m'zaka zisanu ndi zitatu zomwe maroketi adatulutsidwa kuchokera ku Gaza Strip kupita ku Israel. Pa nthawi yomweyi, Aisrayeli 4,000 amwalira ndi ngozi zagalimoto. Ndipo komabe, sitikuwona mkwiyo wotsutsana ndi uchigawenga m'misewu mu Israeli. Koma kuchokera kwa anthu makumi awiriwa, timaloledwa kulowa mu Gaza Strip ndikuwawombera kuchokera mumlengalenga kupita ku khola lawo ndikupha ana a 275. Ndipo Lanny akunena kuti sizokhudzana ndi kusagwirizana, koma zili choncho. Kusagwirizana ndi mawu ochokera ku malamulo apadziko lonse lapansi. Ndipo ponena kuti sakugwirizana nazo, akunyoza malamulo apadziko lonse lapansi.
Ndipo Israeli yakhala ikunyoza malamulo apadziko lonse lapansi ndi mapangano apadziko lonse lapansi ndi zisankho zapadziko lonse lapansi kuyambira 1967, kapena mwina kuyambira kale. Chimodzi mwa zisankho izi ndikuti Israeli abweze maderawa. Ndipo posunga ndi kusunga maderawa kudzera munjira zachiwawa, Israeli ikupanga zinthu zomwe zitseko zonse za Gaza Strip zimatsekedwa kupatula khomo limodzi. Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, woyambitsa Hamas, adatero. Israeli yatsekanso zitseko zonse ku Gaza Strip, kupatula zitseko za mzikiti. Tatseka zitseko za sukulu. Tatseka zitseko zachuma. Tatseka zitseko zachipatala. Ndipo kotero, ndiye tikudabwa kuti tiyenera kuthana ndi Hamas.
Chifukwa chake ndikuganiza kuti tifunika kusintha hard drive, ndipo hard drive iyenera kukhala kuti simuthetsa zinthu mwachiwawa. Mumathetsa zinthuโmumathetsa nkhani zamadiplomatiki, nkhani zandale kudzera mukukambirana ndi kukambirana. Ndipo ndi nthawi yomwe Israeli adakhala pansi ndi Hamas ndikuyamba kukambirana nawo. Hamas ndi boma losankhidwa la anthu aku Palestina. Sitifunikira kuwakonda. Sindimawakonda. Koma iwo ndi boma losankhidwa, ndipo tiyenera kukhala pansi ndi kukambirana nawo osati kuwawombera.
AMY GOODMAN: Lanny Davis, yankho lanu?
LANNY DAVIS: Chabwino, choyamba, ndikuyamikira-Professor Gordon ndi ine mwina tili ndi mtima umodzi, ndipo mwina tili ndi chifundo chofanana, ndipo mwina tili ndi zolinga zofanana za njira ya mayiko awiri pamene anthu amakambirana za mtendere. Ndipo ine ndikuyamikira Pulofesa Gordon wakhala mumkhalidwe woti banja lake likhoza kufa, ndipo ine ndikukhala motetezeka kuno ku Washington. Chifukwa chake sindikutanthauza kuweruza, ndipo ndimalemekeza kwambiri zomwe pulofesa wangonena, koma ndimayang'ana zenizeni, ndipo ndikupepesa kunena kuti ndiyenera kusagwirizana ndi kulakwitsa kwa pulofesa pazinthu zina, kapena kulephera kungakhalenso. zolondola.
Tiyeni tiyambe ndi nkhani ya malamulo apadziko lonse lapansi. Ndikuphwanya malamulo apadziko lonse lapansi kuponya dala maroketi kuchokera m'madera omwe anthu wamba. Ndime 53 ya Geneva Accords ikunena momveka bwino kuti. Komabe pulofesayo anayiwala kunena zimenezo. Sikuphwanya malamulo apadziko lonse lapansi kudziteteza ngati simukufuna dala anthu wamba. Hamas ikufuna dala anthu wamba. Pulofesayo anaiwala kutchula kusiyana pakati pa kudziteteza ndi kupha anthu wamba momvetsa chisoni pofuna kupeza anthu amene akuponya mizinga mwadala kuti aphe anthu wamba.
Ndipo potsiriza komanso chofunika kwambiri, ndikugawana ndi pulofesa wofuna kukambirana. Ndipo monga ndinanena, kuyambira ndili mwana, mosiyana ndi malingaliro amphamvu a abambo anga, ndimakonda dziko la Palestine, lodziimira palokha, ndipo ndikuterobe. Koma cholinga cha gulu la Hamas ndi kuwononga Israeli. Palibe dziko lotukuka padziko lapansi lomwe lingakhale patebulo kuchokera kuphwando lomwe likuyambitsa zigawenga - ndipo limatanthauzidwa ngati uchigawenga kupha mwadala anthu wamba, kusiyana ndi ankhondo. Palibe amene angakane kuti ndi zomwe Hamas akuchita. Ndipo kukhala patebulo kuchokera ku bungwe lomwe limati, "Sitidzakuzindikirani. Tikufuna kukuwonongani, ndipo tidzagwiritsa ntchito uchigawenga kwa ana anu osalakwa," sizingatheke. Tidakhala moyang'anana ndi Fatah. Tili ndi zoyambira zokambilana ndi Bambo Abboud [si.]. Ndipo ife tili ndi Fatah yotsutsana ndi uchigawenga wa Hamas. Kupatula apo, adathamangitsidwa ndi gulu lankhondo la Hamas.
Ndiye nkhani zonse zomwe ndimakhulupirira kuti pulofesayu ndi ine timafanana, tiyenera kuvomerezana pa mfundo zazikuluzikulu, ndipo chachikulu chomwe sindikuganiza kuti pulofesa angakane kuti cholinga cha Hamas ndi uchigawenga, kupha anthu wamba osalakwa. ndipo cholinga chake ndi kuwononga Israeli, osati kuzindikirika kwa Israeli, osati mayiko awiri omwe angakhale mbali imodzi mwamtendere.
AMY GOODMAN: Pulofesa Neve Gordon?
NEVE GODON: Vuto ndiโinde, zolinga nโzofunika, koma zoona zake nโzofunika kwambiri. Ndipo zoona zake nโzakuti dziko la Israel ndi limene likuwononga kwambiri anthu wamba kuposa mmene gulu la Hamas linachitira ndiponso limene lidzachite. Israeli yapha mu masabata awiri apitawa ana a 275, osati Hamas, mosasamala kanthu za zolinga. Mwatchulapo za sukulu. Israeli ikuchita ndi nkhondo yabodza. Israel ndi yomwe idafalitsa kanema wa Hamas akuwombera roketi kuchokera kusukulu, kanema yemwe ali ndi zaka pafupifupi ziwiri, akunena kuti kanemayo adatengedwa tsiku limodzi kapena awiri m'mbuyomu. Chifukwa chake Israeli ali munkhondo yabodza. Inde, Hamas ikumenyana ndi anthu wamba, koma Israeli ili ndi chisankho ngati iphulitsa anthu wamba kapena ayi, ndipo ikuganiza mwadala kuphulitsa anthu wamba. Chifukwa chake pankhani yofuna kuphulitsa mabomba komwe kuli anthu wamba, Israeli ikuchita ngati zigawenga za boma. Choncho, ngati tanthauzo lanu la uchigawenga siliganizira za wosewerayo-ndipo ochita zisudzo a boma angakhalenso zigawenga-ndiye pamene muphulitsa sukulu ndi pamene muphulitsa yunivesite komanso pamene mukuphulitsa malo oyandikana nawo ndipo mukupha. anthu wamba kuposa zigawenga, ndiye kuti mukuchita chinthu chowopsa.
Ndipo ndili ndi vuto. Ndikuganiza kuti malingaliro anga ndi ovomereza Israeli. Ndikufuna kuwona Israeli ikupezeka ku Middle East zaka makumi asanu ndi limodzi kutsika, osati zaka makumi asanu ndi limodzi zoyamba. Ndipo njira yokhayo kuti Israeli apitirize kukhalapo ku Middle East ngati asintha njira yake yopita kuderali ndikudziwona ngati mtsogoleri wamtendere osati wochita zachiwawa m'derali. Ndipo Israyeli wakhala akukhala ndi lupanga. Ena mwa anansi athu akhala ndi lupanga. Koma tiyenera kutuluka ndi kunena kuti sitikufunanso kukhala ndi lupanga, chifukwa amene akukhala ndi lupanga, monga momwe Baibulo limatiuzira, nawonso amafa ndi lupanga. Tiyenera kutuluka ndi kunena kuti ndife okonzeka kulankhula ndi adani athu, ngakhale ndi anthu omwe amanena kuti samakhulupirira kukhalapo kwa Israeli. PLO - mudatchula Fatah - PLO adanena kuti samakhulupirira kukhalapo kwa Israeli kwa zaka zambiri. Ndipo pamapeto pake, tidakhala pansi ndikukambirana nawo, ndipo tsopano akutengedwa ngati mnzathu waku Palestine. Ndikukhulupirira kuti ngati pali mbali ya pragmatic, mapiko amphamvu a pragmatic ku Hamas, kuti ngati tiyamba kukambirana nawo, pazaka zambiri anthuwa adzavomerezanso kukhalapo kwa Israeli ndikulolera kukhala limodzi ndi ife. Ngati sitilankhula nawo, ngati tipitirizabe chiwawa ichi, pamapeto pake Israeli adzawonongedwa, chifukwa pamapeto pake, luso lamakono lomwe tili nalo pa anansi athu silidzakhala lopindulitsa. Choncho tiyenera kusintha njira yathu. Tiyenera kukhala ovomerezeka - posintha machitidwe athu, ndife ovomereza Israeli. Ife timati tikufuna kuwona Israeli zaka zana kuchokera pano. Ndipo njira yokhayo yomwe tidzawonere Israeli kukhalapo zaka zana kuchokera pano ndi ngati Israeli apanga mtendere ndi Syria, Lebanon ndi anthu aku Palestina.
AMY GOODMAN: Pulofesa Neve Gordon ndi Lanny Davis, tisweka, kenako tibwerera. Kenako, tidzalumikizana ndi membala wa Congress Dennis Kucinich, akulankhula nafe kuchokera ku Cleveland, m'modzi mwa mamembala asanu a Congress kuti avote motsutsana ndi chigamulo chothandizira Israeli. Ndiyeno tikhala tikulankhula ndi akazi achiyuda amene akuimirira kuukira kwa Israeli ku Gaza, wina ku Toronto, wina kuno ku New York. Chiwonetsero chachikulu chikukonzekera lero kunja kwa kazembe wa Israeli ku 5:00 masana. Lanny Davis ndi loya wakale, woweruza wapadera wakale wa Purezidenti Clinton. Pakali pano ndi loya, ndipo ndi mlangizi wamkulu komanso wolankhulira bungwe la Israel Project. Neve Gordon ali ku Beersheba ku Israel, wapampando wa dipatimenti ya ndale ndi boma ku Ben-Gurion University of the Negev. Khalani nafe.
[kuswa]
AMY GOODMAN: Alendo athu ndi loya Lanny Davis, mlangizi wamkulu, wolankhulira Israel Project ku Washington, DC, ndi Pulofesa Neve Gordon, wapampando wa dipatimenti ya ndale ndi boma, Ben-Gurion University of the Negev ku Israel, wolemba Ntchito ya Israeli. Ndikufuna kunena chifukwa chake Israeli adaukira panthawiyi. Mumamvetsetsa bwanji pa izi? Iwo ati Hamas yaphwanya lamulo losiya kumenyana. Pulofesa Gordon, kodi ndi chifukwa chake mukuona kuti zimenezi zinachitika?
NEVE GODON: Hamas idakhazikitsa maroketi ochulukirapo kumapeto kwa kuyimitsa moto. Israeli kwenikweni ndi wochita sewero woyamba yemwe adaphwanya kutha kwa nkhondo pa Novembara 1, pomwe adaukira ku Gaza-November 4th, pomwe adaukira ku Gaza Strip.
Ndikuganiza kuti zifukwa zenizeni ziyenera kuchitira-zifukwa zazikulu ziwiri-ndikumanganso mbiri ya asilikali a Israeli pambuyo pochititsidwa manyazi mu 2006 ku Lebanoni ndi chisankho cha Israeli chomwe chikubwera. Onse a Labor ndi a Kadima, awiri mwa zipani zazikulu zitatu, anali kumbuyo pa zisankho zotsutsana ndi a Likud a BB Netanyahu, omwe amawadzudzula kuti ndi ofewa kwa Palestine. Ndipo ndikuganiza kuti nthawi, pankhani ya zisankho, yomwe ili pa February 10, inali yabwino kusonyeza kuti Kadima ndi Labor, omwe ali mu chipani, akudziwa momwe angakhalire ovuta pa Palestina. Ndipo kwenikweni, kale mu zisankho tikuwona kuti Labor yawonjezera pafupifupi 50 peresenti ku zomwe zinali nazo nkhondo isanayambe. Chifukwa chake ndikuganiza kuti pali zovuta zandale komanso mbiri yakale zomwe zidathandizira kwambiri kuyambitsa nkhondoyi.
Ndikuganiza kuti Hamas idachitanso - kapena kuwerengera molakwika ndikuchita molakwika, kuti idawulutsira ma roketi ku Israeli. Ndikuganiza, mwanzeru komanso mwamakhalidwe, kunali kulakwitsa. Koma sindikutsimikiza kuti Israeli adachitapo kanthu pankhondo yoteroyo. Ndikuganiza kuti kudzera mu njira zamadiplomatiki zikadatha kuyimitsidwa.
AMY GOODMAN: Lanny Davis, kodi mukukhudzidwa ndi kutsekereza osati pa Palestina okha, komanso chidziwitso? The New York Times, BBC, Reuters, CNN onse adapereka madandaulo kwa nduna yayikulu ya Israeli kuti asalole atolankhani apadziko lonse ku Gaza. Kodi mukuganiza kuti nchifukwa ninji Israeli sakulola kukanikiza kulowa?
LANNY DAVIS: Chabwino, choyamba, sindikufuna kuyankha funso lanu lomaliza, chifukwa ndimakonda zofalitsa zazikulu zopita ku Gaza kuti athe kunena zoona osati zabodza. Ndikufuna kubwereranso ku izo.
Koma ndiloleni ndiyambe ndikugwiritsa ntchito mawu anu oti "blockade." Awa ndi mawu olakwika kapena osakondera. Ine sindikunena kuti inu munazifuna izo mwanjira imeneyo, koma izo ziri. Pali kutsekeka kwa ma tunnel ndi njira zina zilizonse zomwe gulu la Hamas lagwiritsa ntchito polola kuti miyalayi ibwere kuchokera ku Iran. Uku ndi ntchito yothandizidwa ndi Iran, monga Hezbollah. Ndipo komabe, magalimoto a 165 othandizira anthu, azachipatala, thandizo la chakudya adapita ku Gaza dzulo kuchokera ku Israel. Ndi Aigupto amene atsekereza kulowa. Muyenera kufunsa boma la Aigupto kuti, "N'chifukwa chiyani mukuletsa kulowa?" Chifukwa akudziwa kuti ngalandezi zagwiritsidwa ntchito ndi Hamas kuti asapatsenso anthu awo chakudya ndi chithandizo chamankhwala, koma ndi maroketi omwe amaikidwa pakati pa anthu wamba, pafupi ndi sukulu, pansi pa zipatala, kuti aphe anthu wamba ku Israeli. Chifukwa chake "blockade" ndiyedi, ndikuganiza, mawu omwe amafunika kusinthidwa. Ndiko kutsekereza kwa zida zankhondo zachigawenga zomwe zimaperekedwa makamaka ndi Iran, ndipo boma la Egypt limatha kutsegula ngalandezo, ndipo akuwona zoopsa zomwezo monga Israeli.
AMY GOODMAN: Chabwino, ndiroleni ine ndifunse funso limeneloโ
LANNY DAVIS: Pankhaniโ
AMY GOODMAN: Mphindi imodzi yokha-pankhani ya kutsekereza kwa Pulofesa Neve Gordon, komwe kusanachitike kuukira kwa Israeli, kutsekedwa kwathunthu kwa Gaza komwe anthu ambiri akhala akutsutsa padziko lonse lapansi. Kodi mungafotokoze kuti blockadeyo ndi chiyani, Pulofesa Gordon?
NEVE GODON: Chabwino, popeza Hamas adasankhidwa kukhala boma pachisankho cha demokalase, Israeli idaganiza zonyanyala chuma cha anthu aku Palestine, makamaka Hamas ndi Hamas kulanda Gaza Strip, ndipo kwenikweni ikuwongolera malire onse ndikusankha omwe angalowe ndi ndani angalowe. chokani ndi chimene chingalowe ndi chimene chingachoke. Ndipo ikulola thandizo linalake la anthu, ndipo ikulola thandizoli, malinga ndi zomwe Israeli akunena, kuti pasakhale ngozi yothandiza anthu. Kotero, makamaka, Israeli akunena kuti, "Tilola magalimoto a 165 kuti pasakhale ngozi yothandiza anthu, kuti tipitirize nkhondo yolimbana ndi Hamas." Chifukwa chake ndi mtundu wamakhalidwe atsopano ankhondo, machitidwe ankhondo omwe mukulimbana nawo osati asitikali ena, koma zigawenga zomwe zili mgulu lankhondo lomwe lili mkati mwa anthu wamba, ndiye kuti mukuukira anthu wamba, ndipo mukuti, "Sitikufuna kuti tsoka lichitike, kuti tipitirize kukuukirani." Pali china chake chonyozeka ndi china chake choyipa.
Ndipo kotero, kwenikweni, pakhala kutsekedwa ku Gaza, ndipo kwakhala kutsekedwa koopsa ku Gaza. Ndipo ngakhale Israeli akunena kuti pakhala kutsekedwa ku Gaza ndikunena kuti Israeli amalola kuti thandizo la anthu lilowe kuti lipitirize kuphulitsa mabomba ndizovuta kwambiri.
LANNY DAVIS: Tiyeni tigwirizane pa mfundo yaikulu apa. Mayi Goodman, munagwiritsa ntchito mawu oti "kutsekereza kwathunthu" kachiwiri nditanena kuti kugwiritsa ntchito koyamba kwa mawu anu oti "blockade" kunali kolakwika kapena kosagwirizana. Chifukwa chake ndikufuna kunena kuti munganene kuti "kutsekereza pang'ono," chifukwa sikungoyang'ana china chilichonse kupatula kuletsa zida zankhondo ndi ma roketi kuti abwere kuchokera ku Iran. Icho ndi chowona. Ndipo funsani boma la Egypt ngati akuvomereza. Kachiwiri-
NEVE GODON: Ngati Mpalestina akufuna kuitanitsa galimoto kunja-
LANNY DAVIS: Pulofesa, pulofesa, ndiroleni ine basiโndiloleni ine ndingofotokoza mfundo ina imodzi.
NEVE GODON: โ galimoto, iye sangakhoze kuitanitsa kunja galimoto. Ngati Mpalestina akufuna kuitanitsa ng'ombe kuchokera kunja, sangabwereke ng'ombe.
LANNY DAVIS: Ndinkafunadi kukusokonezani moyipa, koma ndikuthokoza kuti muli ndi zambiri zoti munene, ndipo ndikufuna kuti mundilole kuti ndimalize.
Ndikudabwa kwambiri kuti simukuyamba ndi mfundo yomwe timavomerezana: zonse zomwe Hamas ayenera kuchita ndikusiya kutumiza miyala ya zigawenga zomwe zimayang'ana anthu wamba - simunagwirizane nane pa izi; ife timagwirizana pa izoโndipo tipanga mtendere ndi Israeli. Ndizo zonse zomwe ayenera kuchita, monga momwe Bambo Abboud [si.] ndi Fatah achita ku West Bank, komwe kukuyenda bwino.
Ndipo chachiwiri, chofunika kwambiri, ntchitoyo inatha. Mu 2005, Israeli adatulutsa ankhondo ake onse. Poyang'anizana ndi boma kapena zigawenga kapena boma lomwe limati, "Ndikufuna kukuwonongani, ndipo ndikutumizirani miyala kuti iphe anthu wamba," ndichifukwa chake kunyalanyazidwa kwachuma, monga momwe mumatchulira, zitha kuchitika m'dziko lililonse lotukuka padziko lapansi. Ngati Canada kapena Mexico ikanakhala ndi cholinga chowononga dziko la United States ndipo ikuyambitsa maroketi ku Houston kapena ku Boston-ngati mukuganiza kuti United States kapena dziko lina lililonse padziko lapansi lingalole kuti izi zichitike popanda kusokoneza chuma ndikulola thandizo lothandizira anthu, pamenepo ndidapempha kusiyana nanu.
Pa TV, Mayi Goodman, ineโ
AMY GOODMAN: Lanny Davis, tidayamba nanu-ine basi-tiyenera kumaliza chifukwa tikupita ku Dennis Kucinich.
LANNY DAVIS: CHABWINO. Chabwino, ndemanga yofulumira pa zofalitsa, zomwe sindinayankhe. Ndikuganiza kuti payenera kukhala kuwonekera kochulukira, ndipo payenera kukhala kumasuka kwambiri ndi zofalitsa. Ndikuganiza kuti Israeli akusunthira mbali imeneyo. Ndikuganiza kuti zabodza, mwachitsanzo, lipoti labodza lomwe thanki ya Israeli idawombera gulu la UN, idatenga maola makumi anayi ndi asanu ndi atatu kwa mneneri wa United Nations yemwe adalemba mawuwo kuti, "Chabwino, sindikudziwa. ." Kumeneko kunali kusiyana kwa nthawi ya maora makumi anayi ndi asanu ndi atatu. Aliyense amakhulupirirabe kuti zidachitika, chifukwa kuchotsedwa kwa mawuwo kapena kusinthidwa kwa mawuwo sikunapeze mitu yamasamba yomwe mawuwo adapeza.
Chifukwa chake tiyenera kukhala osamala kwambiri kuti tikamalowetsa zofalitsa zathu ku Gaza, kuti tipeze anthu omwe ali ndi cholinga chofotokozera zowona za komwe mivi iyi ili. Kodi ali kusukulu? Ali mzipatala? Ndipo ngati ndi choncho, kodi kumeneko ndi kuphwanya malamulo ndi kuphwanya malamulo mwa iwo okha? Ndicho chifukwa chake ndikufuna kuti atolankhani ku Gaza atsimikizire kuti zigawenga zankhondo zomwe Hamas zimachita ndi komwe akuyika miyala yawo.
AMY GOODMAN: Lanny Davis, tinayamba ndi inu; timaliza ndi Pulofesa Neve Gordon ku Beersheba.
NEVE GODON: Ndili ndi ndemanga ziwiri zoti ndipange, imodzi yokhudzana ndi zionetsero zapa media. Aisraeli 700 amangidwa kuyambira pomwe nkhondoyi idayamba, chifukwa adatsutsa nkhondoyi. Izi sizinafike kwa atolankhani apadziko lonse lapansi, ndipo ndikuwopseza boma motsutsana ndi omwe akutsutsa nkhondoyi.
Chachiwiri, ponena za zomwe Lanny adanena, kuti palibe dziko lomwe lingalole dziko lina kuphulitsa nzika zake, akulondola. Amayiwala mfundo imodzi yofunika, ndiyo ntchito yake. Ndipo Gaza sinalipoโidakali pansi, chifukwa Israeli akulamulira malire ake onse, ndipo West Bank ikukhala pansi, ndipo East Jerusalem ikulandidwa. Ndipo mchitidwewoโwoyamba, woyamba, wachiwawa, ndiwo ntchito. Ma roketi amachitira nkhanza zimenezo. Ndipo kotero, tiyenera kukumbukira kuti mkatiโsipakati pa dziko ndi dziko lina. Zakhala pakati pa wokhazikika ndi wotanganidwa.
AMY GOODMAN: Tizisiya pamenepo. Pulofesa Neve Gordon ku Beersheba, wapampando wa dipatimenti ya ndale ndi boma, Ben-Gurion University of the Negev. Iye ndi mlembi wa Ntchito ya Israeli. Lanny Davis, mlangizi wamkulu komanso wolankhulira Israel Project, loya komanso mlangizi wapadera wa Purezidenti Clinton. Zikomo nonse chifukwa chokhala nafe.
LANNY DAVIS: Zikomo kwambiri.
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