AMY GOODMAN: Pakuwunika kwina pa msonkhano wa G20 mu
Tikukulandirani Demokarase Tsopano!
DAVID HARVEY: Zikomo.
AMY GOODMAN: Kodi mukuganiza kuti nchiyaniโchomwe chikuperekedwa ndi atsogoleri a G20? Nanga nโchiyani chiyenera kuchitidwa mโdziko muno?
DAVID HARVEY: Ndikuganiza kuti Tony Benn anali wolondola m'gawo loyambirira, ndipo ndizosangalatsa kukhala pano pambuyo pake. Nthawi zonse ndimamukonda.
Zomwe akuyesera kuchita ndikuyambitsanso dongosolo lomwelo. Ndipo ndikuganiza kuti izi ndizovuta zonse, ndipo pali mikangano yambiri pazambiri, titero. Koma mkangano wofunikira womwe akupanga ndikuti, tingathe bwanji kukhazikitsanso mtundu womwewo wa capitalism womwe tinali nawo ndipo takhala nawo zaka makumi atatu zapitazi mumayendedwe owongolera pang'ono, abwino, koma osatsutsa zoyambira? Ndipo ndikuganiza kuti ndi nthawi yoti titsutse zoyambira.
AMY GOODMAN: Kodi maziko amenewo ndi ati?
DAVID HARVEY: Zofunikira ndizochita ndi kuwonjezeka kodabwitsa kwa kuphatikiza, ngati mukufuna, mphamvu zamakalasi. Ndikutanthauza, kuyambira m'ma 1970, tawona kuwonjezeka kwakukulu kwa kusalingana, osati mdziko muno, koma padziko lonse lapansi. Ndipo mโchenicheni, chuma cha padziko lapansi chawunjikitsidwa mowonjezereka mโmanja oลตerengeka. Ndipo ndikuganiza kuti mukayang'ana mawonekedwe a mapulogalamu a bailout, mapulogalamu olimbikitsa ndi zina zonse, zomwe zimachita ndi kuyesa kusunga katunduyo pamene akutipangitsa kuti tonsefe tizilipira. Ndipo kotero, ndikuganiza kuti ndi nthawi yoti tiyime izi ndi kunena, chabwino, tiyenera kukhala tikupeza zinthu zambiri ndipo, mukudziwa, kufanana kwakukulu.
AMY GOODMAN: Ndipo tikadapeza bwanji chuma chochulukirapo? Kodi pangakhale bwanji kufanana kwakukulu?
DAVID HARVEY: Ndikuganiza, mwachitsanzo, chikhalidwe cha bailout ya mabanki ndi mtundu wa kukonzanso zomwe zikuchitika, kwenikweni, za kupulumutsa mabanki ndi kupulumutsa mabanki, pamene kwenikweni kumamatira kwa anthu. Ndikutanthauza, ndife omwe tidzayenera kulipira izi m'kupita kwanthawi. Ndiye zomwe ndikutsutsana nazo ndikuzindikira ndale kuti izi zikuchitika.
M'malo mwake, zakhala zikuchitika m'zaka makumi atatu zapitazi, ngati sitepe ndi sitepe. Zakhala zobisika mumtundu woterewu wonena za ufulu wamunthu ndi ufulu wamisika ndi mitundu yonse ya zinthu. Koma mukayangโana mโmbuyo, muona kuti aka si vuto loyamba lazachuma limene takhala nalo. Takhala nawo ambiri pazaka makumi atatu zapitazi, ndipo onse ali ndi mawonekedwe ofanana. Tinali ndi vuto lathu losunga ndi ngongole m'ma 1980. Panali vuto la ngongole ku Mexico kumbuyoko mu 1982, pamene, kwenikweni,
AMY GOODMAN: Chifukwa chiyani mabanki alowa
DAVID HARVEY: Chifukwa iwo anabwereketsa ndalama
AMY GOODMAN: Ngati munali Timothy Geithner, mukadakhala Secretary Treasuryโ
DAVID HARVEY: Inde, ngati ine ndinali Mlembi wa Treasury.
AMY GOODMAN: -Kodi mukanakhala mukuchita chiyani kwenikweni?
DAVID HARVEY: O, ndingatenge ndalama zambiri zimenezo, ndipo ndikanaziika mu mtundu wina wa bungwe lomanganso dziko. Ndipo ndimati, "Tawonani, ntchito yanu yoyamba ndikusamalira vuto la kutsekeredwa ndi anthu omwe alandidwa. Choncho pitani kumizinda ngati
AMY GOODMAN: Kodi mungatani?
DAVID HARVEY: Chabwino, ndikuganiza njira imodzi yomwe mungachitire izi ndikuyamba kugula nyumba zonse zomwe zatsala pang'ono kulandidwa ndikuziyika mumtundu wina, sindikudziwa, bungwe la nyumba zamatawuni kapena mawonekedwe ena onse. za mtundu umenewo, ndiyeno kulola anthu kukhalabe mโnyumba zimenezo, ngakhale kuti salinso eni ake. Choncho maufulu a umwini amasintha.
Ndikutanthauza, tili ndi nthano m'dziko lino kuti eni nyumba ndi uthenga wabwino, titero kunena kwake. Koma kwa anthu ambiri, kukhala ndi nyumba si lingaliro labwino. Ndipo ine ndikuganiza, kwenikweni, si maganizo abwino onse.
AMY GOODMAN: Chifukwa chiyani?
DAVID HARVEY: Pazifukwa ziwiri. Chimodzi ndichoti, zimakupangitsani kukhala pachiwopsezo chachikulu ngati ndinu eni nyumba omwe ali ndi ngongole zambiri. Ndipo kwenikweni, malamulo oyambilira anali ngati osangalatsa, mkangano womwe unachitika m'ma 1930, pomwe akuti eni nyumba omwe ali ndi ngongole sakunyanyala, ndipo chifukwa - mukudziwa, muyenera kulipira. ngongole yanyumba. Ndipo kotero, izi zimakhala, titero, mwala wamphero kuzungulira khosi lako. Ndipo izi zimakupangitsani kukhala pachiwopsezo cha kusinthasintha kwa msika monga tikuwonera pano, makamaka ngati muli ndi ngongole zanyumba zosinthika, zinthu zamtunduwu, ndipo mutha kugwidwa mosavuta. Choncho, zomwe tawona pamsika wa nyumba ndi kulanda kwakukulu kwa katundu wa anthu omwe ali pachiopsezo kwambiri m'dzikoli. Ndikutanthauza, uku kwakhala kutayika kwakukulu kwachuma kwa anthu aku Africa America komwe kudakhalako.
AMY GOODMAN: Ndipo kuyankha kwa ena kuti, sakanatha kugula nyumba poyambira, chifukwa sakanakwanitsa?
DAVID HARVEY: Chabwino, ena a iwo, kotero ndiko kulondola, mukudziwa, koma iyi ndi nkhani yodziwika bwino. Chiwopsezo choyamba cha kutsekedwa chinali kwenikweni m'madera osauka, African American, osamukira kumayiko ena komanso amayi omwe amakhala ndi mutu umodzi. Ndipo, inde, mwina samayenera kukhala eni nyumba. Koma kumbali ina, iwo ankaika moyo pachiswe. Koma ndani adatenga zoopsa zenizeni pachuma ichi, ngati sanali mabanki? Choncho, tinganene kuti akulipidwa, pamene mabanki akuyendabe ndi ndalama zambiri.
AMY GOODMAN: Kodi pali kugwirizana kotani pakati pa gentrification ndi mortgage crisis?
DAVID HARVEY: The gentrification ndondomeko pano mu
Ndipo ndizosangalatsa. Ndalama zimayang'anira kupanga nyumba, kupanga nyumba, komanso kugwiritsidwa ntchito kwake. Mumabwereketsa ndalama kwa opanga. Iwo amapita ndi gentrify oyandikana. Mumabwereketsa ndalama kwa anthu amene akukhalamo. Ndipo ngakhale alibe-muyenera kupeza kuti msika kwa gentrification kamodzi kuti ndondomeko akupitirira. Ndipo kotero, kugwirizana kumeneko mu izi, ogwira ntchito zachuma akugwira ntchito pamapeto onse a masewerawa, ngati mukufuna.
AMY GOODMAN: Kodi mungalankhule zomwe mukutanthauza kuti "ufulu wakumudzi"?
DAVID HARVEY: Zomwe ndikutanthauza ndi ufulu wa mzindawu ndikuti tili ndi, ndikuganiza, chosowa chenicheni pakali pano kuti tisankhe demokalase momwe mzinda udzakhala komanso momwe uyenera kukhalira, kuti tithe kukhala nawo, ngati mukufuna, pulojekiti yogwirizana yokonzanso mizindaโdziko la mโtauni. Ndikutanthauza, kuno mumzinda uno, moyenera, ufulu wa mzindawu wakhala ukugwiridwa ndi meya ndi Ofesi Yachitukuko ndi omanga ndi opereka ndalama. Ambiri aife tilibe mawu amphamvu kwambiri. Ndikutanthauza, pali mtundu wa mabungwe ammudzi ndi zina zotero. Chifukwa chake ndikuganiza kuti kukhazikitsidwa kwa demokalase kwa mzindawu, kupanga zisankho zamtawuni, ndikofunikira. Ndipo ndikuganiza kuti tikufuna kubwezeretsanso ufulu wa mzindawu kwa tonsefe, kotero kuti tonsefe sitingathe kukhala ndi mwayi wopeza zomwe zilipo mumzindawu, komanso kuti tithe kukonzanso mzindawu mu fano lina, mosiyana. njira, amene ali kwambiri chikhalidwe chilungamo, kwambiri chilengedwe zisathe ndi zina zotero.
AMY GOODMAN: Kodi vuto lomwe lilipo likutanthauza chiyani pa tsogolo la capitalism, David Harvey?
DAVID HARVEY: Mukudziwa, zovuta ndizofunika kwambiri m'mbiri ya capitalism. Ndi zomwe ndingatchule mtundu wa oganiza bwino adongosolo. Chomwe chimachitika ndikuti capitalism imakula mwanjira inayake, imakhala ndi zovuta zenizeni, kenako imalowa m'mavuto, ndipo imatuluka ngati phoenix mwa mawonekedwe ena. Tinadutsa muvuto lalitali mโma 1970. Panali vuto lalitali mโma 1930. Chifukwa chake vuto, ndiye mphindi yakukonzanso zomwe capitalism ikhala. Ndipo pakali pano, monga ndanenera, mphamvu zomwe zimakhalapo ndikuyesera kukonzanso mphamvu zomwe zinalipo kale kapena kusunga mphamvu zomwe zinalipo kale popanda kulowererapo mwanjira iliyonse.
Momwe ndikuwonera pano ndi, komabe, titha kukhala m'dziko lina. Ikani motere. Ukapitalizimu m'mbiri yakale wakula pamlingo wa 2.5 peresenti kuyambira 1750. Ndipo m'zaka zabwino, ikukula pa atatu peresenti. Obama, tsiku lina, anati, โChabwino, mu zaka zingapo, ife tibwerera ku kukula kwa magawo atatu pa zana.โ Gordon Brown akuti, "Chabwino, chuma chidzawirikiza kawiri pazaka zingapo zikubwerazi." Tsopano, pamene capitalism inapangidwa ndi chirichonse chimene chimachitika pozungulira
Chuma chonse mmbuyomo, titi, 1750 chinali pafupifupi $135 biliyoni. Inali $4 thililiyoni pofika 1950. Ndi $40 trilioni pofika 2000. Tsopano ndi $56 trilioni. Zikachulukirachulukira mchaka chamawa, tikukamba za $100 thililiyoni. Ndipo pofika chaka cha 2030, muyenera kupeza ntchito thililiyoni zitatu, ngati mukufuna, mipata yopindulitsa ya ndalama zogwirira ntchito panthawiyo.
Tsopano, pali malire, ngati mukufuna, ndipo ndikuganiza kuti tikugunda malirewo mwachilengedwe, pazachikhalidwe, pazandale. Ndipo ine ndikuganiza ndi nthawi tinayamba kwenikweni kuganizira njira ina. Mwa kuyankhula kwina, tiyenera kuganizira za chuma cha kukula zero.
AMY GOODMAN: Zimatanthauza chiyani?
DAVID HARVEY: Zikutanthauza kuti mโmalo mokula ndi atatu peresenti pachaka, mumangopitirizabe.
AMY GOODMAN: Ndipo mumachita bwanji zimenezo?
DAVID HARVEY: Ndipo izi zikutanthauza kwathunthu-zikutanthauza kuti ziyenera kukhala zopanda chikapitalist, chifukwa zikutanthauza kuti sipakhala phindu lililonse kuti aliyense akhale nalo. M'malo mwake, muyenera kukhala ndi chuma chopanda phindu. Ndipo momwe mumachitira izi, ndithudi, ndi funso lalikulu, lalikulu. Ine sindiriโine ndiribe ndondomeko ya izo. Koma ndikuganiza kuti ili ndi limodzi mwamafunso ofunika omwe tiyenera kuwaganizira pakali pano. Ndipo chomwe chimandisowetsa mtendere ndichakuti tikukumana ndi vutoli pompano, ndipo sitikufunsa mafunso akulu akulu omwe tiyenera kufunsa.
AMY GOODMAN: Mukupanga chiyani pakuchita ziwonetsero zazikulu zotsutsana ndi ndalama zochepa zomwe zikupita kwa oyang'anira, zomwe anthu angadziwe?
DAVID HARVEY: Chabwino, ine ndiriโkwenikweni, ndinakwiya ndi mkangano wonse uwu wa AIG. Ndikutanthauza, tikukamba za $ 165 miliyoni mu mabonasi kapena 220? Januware watha 2008, ma bonasi a Wall Street pamodzi adabwera pa $32 biliyoni. CHABWINO. Ndipo pa nthawiyo, anthu 32 miliyoni anali atataya kale nyumba zawo. Chithunzi, anthu mamiliyoni awiri ataya nyumba zawo; Wall Street imadzipindulitsa yokha $32 biliyoni. Palibe amene anakwiya nazo. Ndipo ndinakwiya kwambiri ndi zimenezo. Zinkawoneka kwa ine uku kunali kuba kwakalasi. Izi zili ngati osunga mabanki akutsikira mโchosungiramo chombo chomwe chikumira ndi kutenga golidi yense ndikukwera mโmwamba ndi kukwera mโboti lopulumutsira anthu kenaka nkuzimiririka kenaka nโkusiya wina aliyense mโngalawayo yomwe ikumirayi. Ndipo panthawiyo, ndinaganiza kuti zimenezo zinali zonyansa. Ndipo ndi $165 biliyoni m'malo mwa $235 kapena $XNUMX miliyoni yomwe tikukamba.
Ndalamazo zatha kale. Ndikutanthauza, pamene munthu uyu analemba mu New York Times, kukhala ngati kunena kuti, โSindipitaโndingopereka zangaโโadzapereka $740,000 kapena chinachake. Ndipo iye anati, "Koma banja langa silinakhudzidwe." Koma panopa mโmadera ambiri padzikoli pali anthu amene akuvutika ndi njala. Ana akuvutika ndi njala chifukwa cha zimenezi. Palibe chimene chikuchitika pa izo. Ndipo izo zikuwoneka kwa ineโ
AMY GOODMAN: Ndiye pali kusiyana kotani pakati pa chaka chatha ndi pano?
DAVID HARVEY: Kusiyana pakati pa chaka chatha ndi tsopano ndikuti, kwenikweni, chinthucho chafika poipa kwambiri. Ndikutanthauza, zinthu zapoizoni, ngati mukufuna, zimawonekera kwambiri. Ndipo takhala nazo, ndithudi, kuwonongedwa kwa mabanki osungira ndalama, Lehman akusokonekera ndipo ena akuphatikizana, ndi zina zotero. Chifukwa chake ndikuganiza kusiyana pakali pano ndikuti Wall Street ikuyenera kudzikonza yokha.
Koma sindikuganiza kuti tiyenera kudzinyenga tokha kuganiza kuti kwenikweni palibe ndalama zambiriโanthu akupangabe ndalama zabwino pa Wall Street.
AMY GOODMAN: Ndani?
DAVID HARVEY: Zangophatikizidwa tsopano, monga momwe zinaliri. Tatsala ndi mabanki anayi akuluakulu mdziko muno. Ndipo ndizokhazikika kwambiri komanso kuphatikiza mphamvu zamakalasi.
AMY GOODMAN: Pulofesa Harvey, neoliberalism ndi chiyani?
DAVID HARVEY: Neoliberalism, kwa ine, inali ntchito yandale, yomwe idapangidwa mu 1970s. Ndipo inali ntchito yandale kuyesa kuphatikiza ndikumanganso mphamvu zamagulu. Ndipo zidatero, ngati mukufuna, kudzera munjira zingapo zokhuza kubisa, zamisika yaulere, udindo wapayekha, kuchotsedwa kwa boma pazachuma. Koma boma silinachokepo pazachuma. Ndikutanthauza, imeneyo ndi nthano. Boma lakhala likupulumutsa anthu nthawi yonseyi. Kwenikweni, vuto la kusunga ndi kubwereketsa, ndidatchulapo kale.
Koma mfuti zazikuluzo zikangogwa mโvuto, boma limawapulumutsa. Ndipo ichi ndi chomwe timachitcha kuti chiwopsezo pamakhalidwe, chifukwa chifukwa mukutulutsa Wall Street nthawi zonse, ndiye kuti Wall Street ikhala pachiwopsezo chachikulu. Ndipo atenga ziwopsezo zazikulu pazaka makumi atatu zapitazi komanso mobwerezabwereza kugwidwa. Ndipo nthawi iliyonse akagwidwa, boma limalowamo ndi kuwapulumutsa. Ndiko kulumikizana, ngati mukufuna, pakati pa boma ndi Wall Street. Ndiwo mgwirizano womwe uyenera kusweka.
AMY GOODMAN: Kodi mumawona ngati ntchito yamagulu amagulu a anthu?
DAVID HARVEY: Ndikuganiza kuti pakali pano ndi nthawi yosimidwa, m'lingaliro lakuti ngati tituluka muvutoli mwanjira ina iliyonse, zidzakhala chifukwa cha mapangidwe amagulu amphamvu kwambiri omwe amati ndikwanira. Tiyenera kusintha dziko mwanjira yosiyana kwambiri.
Tsopano, mayendedwe amtundu wamtunduwu samangokhala ngati atangochitika. Iwo amatenga kanthawi pang'ono. Ndikutanthauza, ndizosangalatsa mukayang'ana mmbuyo. Mu 1929, pali kuwonongeka kwa msika. Magulu a anthu sanayambe kuyenda mpaka 1932, '33. Zinatenga pafupifupi zaka zitatu. Pakali pano, ndikuganiza kuti tili muvuto lovomerezeka. Iwo akuyesera kupulumutsa dongosolo monga liliri. Ndipo ndikuganiza kuti anthu ochulukirachulukira akuyamba kunena kuti iyi ndi dongosolo losavomerezeka, chifukwa chake tiyenera kuganiza zopanga zosiyana.
Kuchokera pamenepo, mwina kubwera, mitundu yonse yamagulu osiyanasiyana. Tili ndi gulu ili, lomwe ndi gulu latsopano, lotchedwa Right to the City movement. Ndi muno
M'mayiko ena, pali kale magulu ambiri a chikhalidwe cha anthu. Dziko lino latsalira pang'ono panjira imeneyo.
AMY GOODMAN: Ndipo mungatchule chiyani ngati magulu akuluakulu a anthu kwina kulikonse?
DAVID HARVEY: In
Ndipo kotero, ndikuganiza kuti pali mphindi yeniyeni pano, pomwe tiyeneranso kuganizira za zinthu izi kusonkhana padziko lonse lapansi, komwe ndiko, kumene World Social Forum inayambira. Kotero, pali njira zomwe tingayambe kuganizira za mgwirizano pakati pa magawo osiyanasiyana a dziko lapansi.
AMY GOODMAN: Pulofesa Harvey, kodi nkhondo imalowa bwanji mu izi? US ikupitilizabe nkhondo ku Iraq, ngakhale Purezidenti Obama akuti pamapeto pake tidzachoka kumeneko, koma kukulitsa nkhondoyo tsopano ku Afghanistan, osati asitikali ena a 17,000, kenako ena 4,000 - omwe adapanga 21,000-lero Pentagon ikufunsanso 10,000 ina. asilikali?
DAVID HARVEY: Kulondola, kulondola. Chabwino, chochititsa chidwi, pali mbali ziwiri pa izi. Choyamba, mukudziwa, kuyambira 1945, chomwe mumachitcha kuti gulu lankhondo ndi mafakitale, lakhala galimoto yofunika kwambiri pakukula kwa America. Lakhala likulu la zomwe timatcha kuti Keynesianism yankhondo. Ndikutanthauza, ndi gawo limodzi lomwe ndalama zoperewera zinali zololedwa, ndipo inali gawo limodzi la Reagan lomwe lidakula kwambiri ndipo silinasiyidwepo, ngakhale kutha kwa Cold War. Chifukwa chake pakhala ntchito yofunika kwambiri pazachuma pazomwe gulu lankhondo likunena.
Chachiwiri ndichakuti, monga tawonera zaka zingapo zapitazi, mitengo yazinthu ndi yosakhazikika. Ndipo kuyang'anira zinthu zakuthupi ndi zakuthupi kumakhala kofunikira kwambiri. Chifukwa chake, m'malingaliro mwanga, kulowererapo kwakukulu ku Middle East ndi kwina kwakhazikitsidwa momveka bwino mozungulira chidwi cha US pakuwongolera mafuta. Ndipo sizongokhudza izo zokha, koma zimagwirizana kwambiri ndi zimenezo, kotero kuti mikangano imapangidwa, chabwino, tiyenera kuchotsa wolamulira wankhanza. Chabwino, pakhala pali olamulira ankhanza ambiri padziko lonse lapansi United States sanazindikire, chifukwa sinalamulire mafuta. Ndipo kotero, mtundu wa makina ankhondo, ngati mukufuna, ndi makina obisika akuyamba kukhala ofunika kwambiri ponena za kusunga mwayi wamagulu kuzinthu zadziko lapansi komanso, panthawi ina, komanso kuzinthu zantchito za dziko, osati zinthu zachilengedwe zokha.
AMY GOODMAN: Mukuwona bwanji?
DAVID HARVEY: Ayi, sindikuwona kukhala mphamvu yayikulu kwambiri pazachuma. Ndikuganiza kuti panali lipoti la National Intelligence Council, lomwe linatuluka chaka chatha. Izo zinati, kwenikweni, the
Izi ndizosakhazikika komanso zowopsa. Kaya timakonda chiyani
AMY GOODMAN: Mukutanthauza chiyani, โmaguluโ?
DAVID HARVEY: Pa nthawiyo, Japan Co-Prosperity Sphere;
AMY GOODMAN: Malingaliro anu a Purezidenti Obama?
DAVID HARVEY: Ndikuganiza kuti akufunika gulu lamphamvu, lamphamvu, lamphamvu kumbuyo kwake kuti achite zinthu zomwe akuyenera kuchita. Pakalipano, akuyenera kuthana ndi Congress. Ndipo, mukudziwa, pali gulu mu Congress lomwe ndingatchule chipani cha Wall Street, chomwe chakhazikika kwambiri mu Democratic Party, chokhazikika mu chipani cha Republican. Ndipo kotero, sangamenyane ndi Wall Street, chifukwa cha kufunikira kwa phwando la Wall Street ku Congress. Ndikutanthauza, mwachitsanzo, athu
AMY GOODMAN: Mukuwona kuti neoliberalism yafa? Nanga nโchiyani chimakupatsani chiyembekezo?
DAVID HARVEY: Sindikuwona kuti neoliberalism ndi yakufa, ngati mukunena kuti neoliberalism ikukhudza kuphatikiza mphamvu zamagulu, chifukwa kwenikweni tikuwona kulumikizidwa kwina pakali pano, m'malo mochepetsako. Ndipo ndicho chimene ineโpamene ine ndimayankhula za kubwezeredwa kwa banki, ndicho chimene iwo anali kuchita. Kotero ine ndiri wokhudzidwa.
AMY GOODMAN: Kodi simunalipire ndalama kubanki?
DAVID HARVEY: Chabwino, ine ndinali mokomera kuthetsa vuto la kulandidwa. Mukuwona, ngati mwathetsa vuto lanyumba, mabanki sangakhale ndi katundu wapoizoni. Mukadalowa ndikutulutsa anthu onse, sipakanakhala vuto pa Wall Street. Sakanakhala pamenepo ndi katundu wapoizoni. Simukanakhala nazo zolandidwa. Chifukwa chake tikadayenera kulowamo poyambira pomwe ndikukakamira vuto lakutseka.
AMY GOODMAN: Ndipo chifukwa chiyani sanatero?
DAVID HARVEY: Chifukwa izi zingatanthauze kupulumutsa anthu osauka a ku America ndi anthu amtundu wotere, ndipo sakukhudzidwa nazo. Amakhudzidwa ndi kuteteza mabanki, osati kuteteza anthu.
Izi zimandipatsa chiyembekezo, mukuwona, chifukwa ndikuganiza tsopano kuti anthu aziwona, kuti izi ndizomwe zakhala zikuchitika zaka makumi atatu zapitazi ndipo zikuwonekeradi tsopano - ndikutanthauza, zimakukhudzani nthawi yomweyo. Mukudziwa, izi ndi zomwe zikuchitika. Ndipo chinachake chosiyana chiyenera kuchitika. Kusuntha kwamtundu wina kumayenera kutuluka ndikuti, โTaonani, kwakwanira. Sitipitilirabe mwanjira imeneyi. โ
AMY GOODMAN: Pulofesa David Harvey, ndikufuna kukuthokozani kwambiri chifukwa chokhala nafe.
DAVID HARVEY: Ndikukuthokozani.
AMY GOODMAN: David Harvey ndi katswiri wa geographer wa Marxist komanso pulofesa wodziwika bwino wa anthropology ku
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