Source: CNBC
Monga yekha wodzitcha yekha wa demokalase mu Senate yaku US komanso mpikisano wapurezidenti wa Democratic, Bernie Sanders akuyimira munthu wapadera pazandale zaku America.
Zaka zinayi zapitazo, uthenga wake wokhudza kusintha kwakukulu kuti athetse kusiyana kwa ndalama ndi mavuto ena azachuma adapambana kwambiri polimbana ndi Hillary Clinton kuti asankhe chipani chomwe sachilandira. Zotsatira zake zidamulimbikitsa kuti ayeserenso 2020, ngakhale ali ndi zaka 78.
Mpikisanowu umabweretsa zovuta zina komanso zovuta kwambiri. Odziyimira pawokha pandale samayang'anizana ndi munthu wodziyimira pawokha, wotsogola wachiwiri kwa Wachiwiri kwa Purezidenti Joe Biden, komanso wamphamvu mnzawo wowolowa manja ku Sen. Elizabeth Warren akutulutsa malingaliro pafupifupi ofunitsitsa ngati ake. M'mikangano komanso paulendo wa kampeni, Warren adakulitsa chithandizo chake chaka chino; zisankho zikusonyeza kuti Sanders sanatero.
Kenako, pa Oct. 1, anadwala matenda a mtima. Madokotala ataika ma stenti awiri kuti athetse kutsekeka kwa mitsempha ya m'mitsempha, Sanders adabwerera kwawo kuti akapume ku Vermont pomwe owonera ndale amakayikira ngati angayambenso kampeni yolemetsa.
Anathetsa maganizowo mwamsanga. Munthu wokwiya, woponderezedwa - yemwe adawonetsedwa mokumbukiridwa ndi wanthabwala Larry David pa "Saturday Night Live" ya NBC - adabweranso kudzakambirana ndi omwe amapikisana nawo pamakangano apawailesi yakanema patatha milungu iwiri. Monga odwala ambiri omwe amachitidwa bwino ndi catheterization, Sanders akuti adapindula ndi mphamvu zatsopano. Kuphatikiza apo, malipoti azachuma aku kampeni akuwonetsa kuti Sanders adanyadira omwe amapikisana nawo mu kotala lachitatu la chaka, ndipo ali ndi ndalama zambiri kuposa wina aliyense.
Pazakudya zobiriwira zobiriwira mu shopu ya khofi ya Des Moines, ndidakhala pansi ndi Sanders kukambirana za thanzi lake, zomwe akufuna kuchita pazachuma komanso chiyembekezo chake chokhala pulezidenti wazaka za m'ma 21 ali wakhanda, Franklin D. Roosevelt. Chotsatira ndi cholembedwa chofupikitsidwa, chosinthidwa cha zokambirana zathu.
John Harwood: Funso limodzi la thanzi pamene tikuyamba. Kodi zomwe mudakumana nazo zakukhudzani mtima, momwe mumaganizira za moyo kapena zofunika?
Bernie Sanders: Monga munthu amene wapirira kwambiri ndili mwana - ndinali wothamanga mtunda wautali, ndikuthokoza Mulungu kuti ndakhala wathanzi ngati kavalo - zinali zodabwitsa kwa ine pamene adokotala anandiuza kuti, "Hei, iwe." tili ndi matenda a mtima." Sindinakhulupirire kuti zinali choncho.
Sindikufuna kukhala wandale mopambanitsa ponena izi, koma moyo wanga ndi wandale. Ndinalowa m'chipatala ndipo sindinkadandaula kuti ndingakwanitse kulipira. Ndili ndi inshuwaransi yabwino. Ndipo ine nditakhala pamenepo, ndikuganiza kuti winawake pano ali ndi kusapeza bwino komweko, ndipo iwo akukhala ndi kuganiza, “Kodi ine ndipite ku chipatala ndi kukapeza ndalama zambiri? Mwina mawa zikhala bwino, mwina ndiiwala.” Ena mwa anthu amenewa amafa kapena kuvulala kotheratu. Ndicho chimodzi mwa zinthu zomwe ine ndinaziganizira.
John Harwood: Mudadzipatula posachedwa kuchokera kwa Senator Warren - ndi capitalist mpaka mafupa ake, ndipo si inu.
Bernie Sanders: Umo ndi momwe wadzifotokozera yekha.
John Harwood: Kodi chimenecho ndi chizindikiro chakuti inu mukupita patsogolo pang'ono, kapena mukuganiza kuti chimenecho chiri ndi tanthauzo lenileni?
Bernie Sanders: Ine ndikuganiza izo zimatero, mwa njira zingapo. Panthawi imeneyi m'mbiri - kumene wogwira ntchito wamba sanawone kutsika kwamtengo wapatali komwe kumawerengera kuwonjezeka kwa malipiro m'zaka za 45 ngakhale kuphulika kwa teknoloji ndi zokolola, kumene muli ndi ndondomeko yandale yomwe ili yoipitsitsa ndipo ili ndi mabiliyoni ambiri, kumene muli nawo. kuchuluka kwa ziphuphu zamakampani, ndikuganiza kuti nthawi ndi ino, ngati titi tipulumutse dziko lino, kuti tisinthe ndale.
Sikuti malamulo ochulukirapo. Ndizokhudza anthu mamiliyoni ambiri, ogwira ntchito, achinyamata, anthu omwe amakhulupirira chilungamo, pazandale, kuti auze akuluakulu amakampani kuti ndi zokwanira. Tisintha dongosolo la ndale, mwachuma. Tisintha ndondomeko yamtengo wapatali ya dziko lino. Sitidzalambiranso mabiliyoni achinyengo, tidzalemekeza aphunzitsi ndi ogwira ntchito yosamalira ana ndi apolisi ndi ozimitsa moto ndi amalonda ang'onoang'ono. Ndi zomwe kampeni yathu, mwapadera ndikukhulupirira, ili pafupi.
John Harwood: Kodi muli ndi vuto ndi ntchito yomwe adagwira m'mbuyomu, kulangiza mabungwe - Dow Corning, Dow Chemical - pazovuta zamalamulo?
Bernie Sanders: Ine ndiwalola anthu Achimerika kupanga chiweruzo chimenecho. Sindinagwirepo ntchito kukampani. Sindinayambe ndanyamula katundu wawo ku Senate ya United States.
Anthu ali ndi mwayi wowona zolemba zanga. Si chaka chatha, osati zaka ziwiri zapitazo - ndinali wa "Medicare for All" pamene ndinali meya wa Burlington mu 1980s. Pantchito yanga, ndakhala ndikuchita chidwi chilichonse ndimakampani, kaya ndi makampani opanga mankhwala, makampani a inshuwaransi, mafuta amafuta, Wall Street. Ndakhala ndikuchita izi kwa zaka 30 kapena 40. Awa si malingaliro atsopano kwa ine.
John Harwood: Mumadzizindikiritsa ngati socialist wa demokalase. Mwalandira kuvomerezedwa ndi Woimira Ocasio-Cortez kumapeto kwa sabata. Kodi mukuganiza kuti mungatengere dziko la United States of America kupita ku demokalase ya demokalase?
Bernie Sanders: Zimatengera zomwe tikutanthauza ndi demokalase ya sosholizimu. Zomwe ndikuyesera kuchita, mwanjira zambiri, ndikungoyambira pomwe Franklin Delano Roosevelt adasiyira. M’nkhani imene sinaululidwe kwambiri ya State of The Union yomwe anapereka mu 1944, izi ndi zimene ananena m’mawu ambiri: “Tili ndi ufulu wandale. Muli ndi ufulu wolankhula, ufulu wosonkhana, ufulu wachipembedzo. Zonse nzabwino, koma zomwe tilibe ndi ufulu wotsimikizika pazachuma. ”
Chifukwa chake mutha kuvota, koma mulinso ndi mwayi wogona panja pansewu. Mutha kuchita zionetsero, koma mulinso ndi ufulu wogwira ntchito maola 60 kapena 70 pamlungu ndi malipiro a njala. Muli ndi ufulu osakhala ndi inshuwaransi yazaumoyo, osatha kutumiza ana anu ku koleji. Zomwe ndikuyesera kuchita pa kampeniyi ndikuti ufulu wachuma uyenera kuwonedwa ngati ufulu wa anthu.
John Harwood: Kodi mumavomerezanso gawo la FDR lomwe linanena kuti adani amadana nane ndipo ndikulandila chidani chawo?
Bernie Sanders: Mwamtheradi. Mutha kuweruza munthu potengera anzawo omwe ali nawo. Mutha kuweruza wosankhidwa kukhala purezidenti ndi adani omwe ali nawo.
Panali munthu wina yemwe anali mtsogoleri wa Third Way, phiko lakampani la Democratic Party. Anati, "Bernie Sanders ndiwowopsa ku Democratic Party." Ndikugwirizana naye. Ndine. Ndikufuna kusintha chipani cha Democratic Party, kusiya kudalira ndalama zazikulu ndi zofuna zamakampani, ndikuchipanga kukhala chipani cha anthu ogwira ntchito, achinyamata, anthu onse omwe amakhulupirira chilungamo.
John Harwood: Kodi chingakhale cholinga chanu kusankha anthu a demokalase pa maudindo akuluakulu muulamuliro wanu?
Bernie Sanders: Chabwino, mukupenga pang'ono pa mawu apa.
Ndidzasankha anthu omwe amakhulupirira gulu la ogwira ntchito ndi mabanja ogwira ntchito a dziko lino, omwe ali okonzeka kulimbana ndi zofuna zamakampani zamphamvu kwambiri, zomwe lero zikulamulira moyo wathu wachuma ndi ndale. Ndidzasankha loya wamkulu, yemwe kwa nthawi yoyamba m'mbiri yamakono, adzatsatira milandu yoyera, yomwe ndikukhulupirira kuti ikufalikira. M'malo momanga ana kaya akugulitsa chamba, mwina timangotsatira ena achinyengo pa Wall Street kapena m'mafakitale ena akuluakulu. Ndidzasankha loya wamkulu yemwe ali wokonzeka kukhazikitsa malamulo oletsa kukhulupilira omwe ali m'mabuku, omwe akhala akunyalanyazidwa kwa nthawi yayitali.
Ndiye ndikakamba za democratic socialism, tinene momveka bwino, zikutanthauza chiyani? Tisamachite mantha kwambiri ndi anthu.
John Harwood: Webusayiti ya DSA idati, "Sitingathe kuthetsa mabungwe aboma pakanthawi kochepa, ndiye tiyenera kulimbana nawo." Kodi chingakhale cholinga chanu, pakanthawi kochepa kapena kwanthawi yayitali, kuti musakhale ndi mabungwe apadera?
Bernie Sanders: Ayi, chimenecho sicholinga changa. Cholinga changa, komabe, ndikuwonetsetsa kuti ogwira ntchito ali ndi choyimira pamakampani akuluwo. Tapereka lamulo la Corporate Accountability Act. Osati kwambiri mopitilira muyeso - ilipo mwanjira ina m'maiko ena, kuphatikiza Germany. M’malo mongokhala ngati chiwombankhanga m’makina, bwanji ponena za kupatsa wogwira ntchitoyo mphamvu ndi udindo ponena za kapangidwe ka bungwelo?
Kodi Wall Street ndi mamembala ochepa a board ayenera kudziwa ngati fakitale itsalira ku United States kapena ipita ku China? Kodi mamembala olemera ochepa a board ayenera kudziwa ngati pali kubweza masheya, kaya ogwira ntchito amawonjezedwa bwino ndi malipiro abwino?
John Harwood: Simukuchita chidwi ndi zomwe a Jamie Dimon ndi Business Roundtable adanena kuti, "Tiganizira zambiri kuposa kungopeza phindu pazochita zathu." Simukuganiza kuti ali serious?
Bernie Sanders: Ayi. Ayi.
John Harwood: Ngati mukufuna kuti 45% ya bolodi ikhale antchito, kugawa kofunikira kwa phindu kwa ogwira ntchito, ngati muletsa kugula katundu, kodi mumavomereza kuti zingachepetse kukula kwachuma?
Bernie Sanders: Sikokwanira kungoyang'ana kukula kwachuma. Umenewo wakhala msinkhu wa Baibulo umene corporate America wakhala akuyang'ana - tili ndi kukula, tili ndi kukula. Wantchito wamba sali bwino kuposa momwe analiri zaka 45 zapitazo. M'zaka 30 zapitazi, 1% yapamwamba yawona kuwonjezeka kwa $ 21 thililiyoni mu chuma chawo. Theka la pansi la America lawona kuchepa kwa chuma chawo. Theka la anthu masiku ano ali ndi malipiro a moyo.
Funso ndilakuti kodi chuma chathu chikugwira ntchito kwa anthu kuno? Kodi zikugwira ntchito kwa anthu wamba aku America? Kodi anthu amaona kuti ndi otetezeka? Kodi amadziwa kuti akadwala amatha kupita kwa dokotala kuchipatala? Kodi amadziŵa kuti ana awo, chirichonse kukhala chofanana, angakhale ndi moyo wabwinopo?
John Harwood: Kodi mukuganiza bwanji kuti capitalism yamakono yapadziko lonse lapansi yachepetsa kwambiri umphawi m'maiko ena padziko lapansi?
Bernie Sanders: Mukakamba za chuma cha padziko lonse, mukulondola. Tiyamike ambuye. Umphaŵi wowopsa, wowopsa m’maiko osatukuka, ena mwa iwo akuchepa. Ndi zabwino kwambiri. Kumbali inayi, mukuyang'ana pamlingo wosaneneka komanso wodetsa nkhawa wapadziko lonse lapansi komanso kusalingana kwachuma. Mukuwona m'mayiko osiyanasiyana mphamvu zodabwitsa zamakampani akuluakulu amitundu yosiyanasiyana komanso Wall Street podziwitsa za tsogolo la mayiko amenewo. Mukuwonanso m'maiko ambiri gulu lachitukuko chaulamuliro komanso kutalikirana ndi ufulu wa anthu ndi demokalase.
John Harwood: Pakusintha kwa Wall Street, mumati mukufuna kuthetsa "ndende yayikulu kwambiri." Mudanena tsiku lina kuti kuphwanya kwa Sherman Act ndi omwe akukhala nawo akuyenera kukhala ndi mwayi woimbidwa milandu. Ndikudabwa ngati mukuganiza kuti mfundoyi imagwiranso ntchito pamilandu ngati Boeing CEO. Wachotsedwa udindo wake monga wapampando wa board, wamkulu wa ndege ya Max adachotsedwa ntchito. Kodi ndi nkhani yamtundu wanji yomwe lamulo lachigawenga likugwirizana nalo?
Bernie Sanders: Uwu ndi mtundu wa zokambirana zomwe tikufuna ngati dziko, ndipo zidzachitika ndikakhala Purezidenti. Ndikupatsani zitsanzo zitatu.
Mu 2008, Wall Street idayendetsa dziko lino pamavuto azachuma kwambiri m'mbiri yamakono. Wall Street yalipira chindapusa makumi ndi mabiliyoni ambiri chifukwa chakuchita kwawo kosaloledwa. Sikunali kulakwitsa. Iwo ankagulitsa ngongole za subprime zomwe ankadziwa kuti zinali zopanda pake.
Ndi angati mwa oyang'anira ku Wall Street omwe adapita kundende?
John Harwood: sindikuganiza chilichonse.
Bernie Sanders: Ayi, ndichifukwa chake anthu aku America amanyansidwa ndi zomwe zikuchitika ku Washington, DC Akuwona mwana akugulitsa chamba, wagwidwa ndi wapolisi. Mwana ameneyo adzakhala ndi mbiri yaupandu kwa moyo wake wonse. Ndipo wamkulu wa Wall Street yemwe amabweretsa tsoka lalikulu pachuma chathu, palibe chilango.
Chitsanzo china - makampani opanga mankhwala. Sikuti ndi aumbombo, ndi oipa. Akuchita chinyengo komanso kukonza mitengo. Pakali pano, monga mukudziwira, maloya akuluakulu a boma akukweza mlandu waukulu kwa opanga opioid. Zomwe akunena ndikuti, anyamatawa amadziwa zomwe akuchita. Iwo anali kugulitsa mankhwala osokoneza bongo m'dziko lonselo. Ambiri amwalira. Kodi khalidwe limenelo mumalifotokoza bwanji? Ndimachitcha chigawenga.
Chitsanzo china. Kodi timatanthauzira bwanji, timafotokoza bwanji machitidwe amakampani opangira mafuta?
John Harwood: Mundiuza.
Bernie Sanders: Chabwino, ndikuwuzani. Iwo adziwa, kwa nthawi yaitali kwambiri, akuluakulu a Exxon Mobil ndi mafakitale ena opangira mafuta oyaka mafuta ankadziwa kuti mankhwala omwe akupanga akuyambitsa kusintha kwa nyengo ndipo kwenikweni amathandiza kuwononga dziko lapansi.
John Harwood: Mumawaika m’gulu limodzi ndi akuluakulu a fodya.
Bernie Sanders: Ndendende. Ngati mukupanga chinthu koma simukudziwa kuti chikuvulaza, nzokhululukidwa. Koma ngati muli ngati makampani a fodya - timapita pamaso pa Congress, timalumbira kuti kafukufuku wathu wonse wasonyeza kuti palibe vuto ndi fodya amene amachititsa khansa kapena matenda a mtima. Iwo ananama. Bambo anga anamwalira chifukwa ankasuta mapaketi aŵiri a ndudu patsiku. Anthu mamiliyoni ambiri ali m’bwato lomwelo. Awa ndi abodza. Awa ndi zigawenga. Mwa njira, akugulitsabe zinthu zawo zamagazi padziko lonse lapansi. Zomwezo ndi mafuta amafuta.
Ife ngati fuko tichite zomwe sitinachitepo, ndi kunena kwa akuluakulu amakampaniwa omwe ali ndi mphamvu zambiri, tatopa ndi umbombo wanu ndipo tatopa ndi ziphuphu zanu. Ndimathandizira ndikulemekeza anthu amalonda omwe amapanga zinthu zatsopano, amapanga ntchito. Mulungu adalitse iwo. Sindilemekeza kapena kuchirikiza zigawenga zomwe zimapha anthu, zovulaza anthu, komanso zabodza pazomwe akuchita.
John Harwood: Ndiroleni ndifunse funso lokhudza ulamulilo weniweni padziko lapansi m'malo molankhula za kampeni. Joe Biden adati koyambirira kwa chaka chino, palibe chofunikira kwenikweni chomwe chiyenera kusintha. Mwakonza zosintha kwambiri. Kodi zotsatira za kayendetsedwe ka Biden zingakhaledi zosiyana ndi zotsatira zomwe zikuchitika mu kayendetsedwe ka Sanders, popeza pali zopinga zambiri pazomwe zikuchitika ku Congress?
Bernie Sanders: John, ukuiwala chinthu chimodzi chofunika kwambiri: Ndine wandale wosiyana, ndipo kayendetsedwe kanga kadzakhala kosiyana ndi mbiri yamakono ya America osachepera kubwerera ku FDR.
Mukunena kuti palibe chachikulu kwenikweni chomwe chimachitika. Ndipo pali choonadi kwa izo. Koma zomwe mukusowa ndikuti pakali pano muli ndi Congress ndi White House yomwe imayendetsedwa ndi anthu osankhika omwe ali ndi ndalama zambiri komanso mphamvu pazandale komanso zachuma mdziko muno. Ine sindidzalamuliridwa ndi anyamata amenewo. Ndidzawatenga ndipo ndidzawamenya.
Momwe timawamenya ndikumvetsetsa kuti kusintha kwenikweni sikunachitikepo popanda mamiliyoni a anthu atayimirira ndi kufuna kusintha kumeneko. Ndiyo mbiri ya kayendetsedwe ka ntchito, kayendetsedwe ka ufulu wa anthu, kayendetsedwe ka amayi, kayendetsedwe ka gay, kayendetsedwe ka chilengedwe. Sindidzakhala mkulu wa asilikali okha, ndidzakhala wolinganiza wamkulu. Ndikhala ndikukonzekera ndi gulu lamphamvu lapansi.
Tili kale ndi phata. Zikhala zikuphatikiza mabungwe ogwira ntchito, madera aku Africa America, gulu la Latino, achinyamata adziko lino. Anthu onse omwe amakhulupirira chilungamo, anthu ogwira ntchito, omwe ali okonzeka kuimirira ndi kumenyana ndi kutenga anthu apamwamba a makampani. Ndipo pamene inu muchita izo, John, ndiye inu simukunena za kusintha kowonjezereka.
John Harwood: Koma ngakhale mutasankhidwa, ngakhale zitakhala bwino mpaka ma Democrats apambane ochepa mu Senate, kodi Joe Manchin adzavotera pulogalamu yanu? Kodi Jon Tester adzavotera pulogalamu yanu?
Bernie Sanders: Inde. Kulondola iwo adzatero. Inu mukudziwa chifukwa chake? Tikupita ku West Virginia.
Wandale wanu wamba amakhala pamenepo ndipo amaganiza, "Tiyeni tiwone. Ngati ndichita izi, ndidzakhala ndi zokonda zandalama zomwe zikuyika zotsatsa za masekondi 30 motsutsana nane. Ndiye kulibwino ndisachite.” Koma tsopano ayenera kuganiza, "Ngati sindigwirizana ndi ndondomeko yomwe imagwira ntchito kwa anthu ogwira ntchito, ndikhala ndi Pulezidenti Sanders abwere ku boma langa ndikusonkhanitsa anthu ogwira ntchito."
Mukudziwa? 1 peresenti ndi yamphamvu kwambiri - osatsutsa zimenezo. A 99%, akakhala okonzeka komanso okonzeka kuyimirira ndikumenya nkhondo, amakhala amphamvu kwambiri.
John Harwood: Mwakhala mukuyimira pulezidenti kwa zaka zisanu. Ngati pangakhale kusintha kwandale komwe kukuyembekezera kuchitika, kodi sitingawone zambiri pofika pano?
Bernie Sanders: Tiye tikambirane zimenezo. Ganizirani za malingaliro omwe ndinayambitsa zaka zinayi zapitazo. Zaka zinayi zapitazo, $ 15 pa ola laling'ono - "wamphamvu komanso openga." Zaka zinayi zapitazo, Medicare for All, chisamaliro chaumoyo ngati ufulu waumunthu - "Bernie, ameneyo si waku America." Makumi asanu ndi awiri mphambu amodzi mwa ma Democrat tsopano amathandizira izi. Kusintha kwanyengo ndi vuto lalikulu.
John Harwood: Ndiwo anthu ambiri omwe amalankhula za izo, osati zinthu zomwe zadutsamo.
Bernie Sanders: Ziyenda bwanji pamene Donald Trump ndi purezidenti, yemwe akuwoneka kwa abwenzi ake mabiliyoniire? Ndipo pamene Mitch McConnell amayendetsa Senate?
Koma a House of Representatives adapereka malipiro ochepa a $ 15 pa ola limodzi. Nyumba ya Oyimilira idachita kusintha kwakukulu pazisankho, ndi zina, ndi zina. Kotero izo zikuyembekezera. Malingaliro omwe ndikunena amathandizidwa kwambiri ndi anthu aku America.
Monga purezidenti, ndimathandizira kubweretsa dziko lathu pamodzi polankhula za nkhani zomwe ma Republican amavomereza. Anthu a ku Republican akuganiza kuti sitiyenera kukhala ndi ndondomeko yamalonda yomwe imatumiza ntchito zabwino ku China ndi Mexico. Ndikugwirizana nazo. Titha kubweretsa anthu pamodzi pazokambirana zomwe zimagwira ntchito kwa mabanja ogwira ntchito, osati 1%.
John Harwood: Chimodzi mwazolepheretsa chakhala chandalama. Senator Warren akupanga mapulani olipira Medicare for All. Mwapeza zopezera ndalama pafupifupi theka la izo. Kodi mukuona kuti ndi kofunika kupeza ndalama zopezera theka lina? Kapena kodi mukukhulupirira, monga momwe iwo amavomerezera ku nthanthi yamakono yazachuma amakhulupilira, kuti takhala tikuvutitsidwa pang'ono ndi nkhawa za kuchepa?
Bernie Sanders: Tikuyesera kulipira chinthu choyipa. Panthawi yachuma komanso kusalingana kwachuma, ndikuwona kuti anthu olemera kwambiri mdziko muno, opambana 1/10 pa 1% ayenera kulipira kwambiri kuposa momwe akulipira pakali pano. Muli ndi vuto lamisala. Lolani anzanga aku Wall Street kumeneko andiuze chifukwa chake zili zomveka.
John Harwood: Kodi muli ndi anzanu aku Wall Street?
Bernie Sanders: Ayi, sindikutero. Limenelo linali fanizo chabe. Ndinayesa kumveka bwino.
Koma mukudziwa, chonde, nditetezereni Amazon, yomwe ili ndi munthu wolemera kwambiri mdziko muno, yomwe imapanga phindu la $ 11 biliyoni chaka chatha ndikusalipira misonkho ya federal. Ndikufuna kumva chitetezo. John, sindikumva. Palibe chitetezo. Ndipo si Amazon yokha, ndi mabungwe ambiri awa.
John Harwood: Koma mukadali ndi ndalama zambiri zoti muzilipira mokwanira, inde?
Bernie Sanders: Kulimbana pakali pano ndikupangitsa anthu a ku America kuti amvetse kuti tikugwiritsa ntchito kawiri pa munthu aliyense, kuti ndithudi, tikhoza kulipira. Tikulipira tsopano m'njira yopumira. Ndikufuna kulipira m'njira yopita patsogolo.
Mukundifunsa kuti ndibwere ndi ndondomeko yeniyeni ya momwe America aliyense - mungalipire misonkho yochulukirapo, ndikulipira zingati. Sindikuganiza kuti ndiyenera kutero pakali pano.
John Harwood: Mukuganiza kuti ndizopusa kuti Senator Warren akuyesera?
Bernie Sanders: Sindikunena kuti ndi zopusa. Zomwe ndikunena ndikuti tayala zosankha zingapo zomwe zikupita patsogolo. Tikhala ndi mkangano umenewo. Kumapeto kwa tsiku, tidzalipira nickel iliyonse ya Medicare for All, ndipo idzapulumutsa anthu ambiri a ku America, omwe sadzalipiranso malipiro.
John Harwood: Kodi mungaganize kuti kumapeto kwa kayendetsedwe ka Sanders, kuchepa kwake sikungakhale kwakukulu kuposa momwe kulili pano?
Bernie Sanders: Pansi pa Trump, zomwe taziwona ndikuwonjezeka kwakukulu kwa kuchepa. Ndikuganiza kuti ndichita bwino kwambiri kuposa Trump.
Lingaliro lalikulu lililonse lomwe tapereka - kaya ndi Medicare for All, yokhudzana ndi kusintha kwa nyengo, kusintha mphamvu zathu, kupanga makoleji aboma ndi mayunivesite opanda maphunziro ndikuchotsa ngongole zonse za ophunzira ku America - ndizolipira.
John Harwood: Bungwe la Congress silinathe kukweza msonkho wa gasi ndi makobidi kuti akonze misewu yowonongeka ndi milatho. Muli ndi msonkho wachuma, womwe ndi wokulirapo. Congress sinathe kupititsa patsogolo mgwirizano wamakhadi. Mukufuna kuwonjezereka kwakukulu kwa ntchito zadongosolo. Kodi izi zitha bwanji mu 2019?
Bernie Sanders: Chabwino, ndi funso labwino. Ndi funso labwino. Koma mukuyang'ana pa ndale zomwe zilipo. Nthawi zambiri ndimagwiritsa ntchito mawu omwe Nelson Mandela ananena: "Zikuwoneka zosatheka mpaka zitatha."
Malingaliro awa - "O Mulungu wanga, sizingachitike." Tangoganizani aliyense ku America ali ndi chithandizo chamankhwala. Duh - ndizomwe zilipo m'maiko ena onse padziko lapansi. N’chifukwa chiyani zimenezi sizingatheke?
Tangoganizani United States ikutsogolera dziko lapansi posintha mphamvu zathu ndikupulumutsa dziko lapansi la ana athu ndi zidzukulu. “O Mulungu wanga, sizingatheke.” Zoona? M'malo mwake ndi chiyani?
Mukunena zowona kuti awa ndi malingaliro akulu. Ndikuvomereza zimenezo. Mukunena zowona kuti tili ndi Congress yosagwira bwino ntchito. Ndikuvomerezana nanu.
Koma pamene inu simuli bwino ndikumvetsa kuti ngati inu ndi ine takhala kuno zaka 25 zapitazo, ndipo ine ndinati kwa inu, “Ukudziwa John, ine ndikuganiza kuti ukwati wa amuna kapena akazi okhaokha udzakhala wovomerezeka m’madera onse a dziko lino”. Mukadandiuza chiyani? Inu mukanati, “wapenga.”
John Harwood: Inde, ndikanatero.
Bernie Sanders: Ndinakulira pa nthawi yomwe anthu aku America aku America sakanatha kuvota, sichoncho? Ana sakanatha kupita kusukulu yapafupi, sakanatha kumwa pa kasupe wamadzi. Ndipo kusintha kunachitika. Martin Luther King Jr., ena, iwo anayimirira ndipo iwo anamenyana. Zaka 100 zapitazo, amayi analibe ufulu wovota, chifukwa monga tonse tikudziwa, malo a amayi ali m'nyumba; Zaka 100 zapitazo - osati nthawi yayitali.
Kusintha kutha kuchitika mukalimbikitsa anthu, mukapanga anthu okonzeka pamene akuyimira chilungamo. Ndi zomwe ndimakhulupirira.
John Harwood: Ngati muli ndi chithunzi chimodzi m'chaka chanu choyamba ...
Bernie Sanders: Funso lolakwika! Ndikudziwa kumene mukupita. Inu mundifunsa ine kuti ndikhale patsogolo.
John Harwood: Inde.
Bernie Sanders: Ayi. Mukangosuntha, mutha kusuntha. Ndikuganiza kuti anthu aku America amatha kutafuna chingamu ndikuyenda nthawi imodzi.
Tiyenera kupulumutsa dziko lapansi. Sichisankho. Tiyenera kulimbana ndi kusintha kwa nyengo. Amereka ayenera kutsogolera dziko.
Ndidzafuna kuti America aliyense akhale ndi chisamaliro chaumoyo ngati ufulu waumunthu. Sindingalole mazana masauzande a ana aang'ono owala kuti asapite ku koleji chifukwa alibe ndalama kapena anthu 45 miliyoni akuvutika ndi ngongole zazikulu za ophunzira.
John Harwood: Simukuvomereza kuti muyenera kusankha imodzi kuti muyambe?
Bernie Sanders: Ayi. Ndiko kuganiza kwachikale.
John Harwood: Funso lomaliza. Pamene tinkachita zokambiranazi zaka zinayi zapitazo, mudamaliza ndi kunena kuti, “musandipeputse”.
Bernie Sanders: Kodi ine ndinanena izo, Yohane?
John Harwood: Inu munatero.
Bernie Sanders: Ndipo mudandichepetsa.
John Harwood: Ndikuvomereza kuti ndinatero. Koma pakali pano, ndikuganiza kuti anthu ambiri akuchepetsa mwayi wanu, kapena m'malingaliro anu atha kukupeputsani. Kodi munganene chiyani kwa iwo?
Bernie Sanders: Pamene ndinakhala meya wa mzinda wa Burlington kalekalelo mu 1981, mtolankhani wina wa kumaloko anati, “Chabwino, mipata yoti Sanders apambane ndi wolamulira wazaka zisanu, woima pawokha, ndi pafupifupi 100 kwa 1.” Ndinapambana. Nthawi yapitayi, kutenga nawo gawo lonse la demokalase, tidapambana m'maboma 22 ndikupeza mavoti a achinyamata ambiri kuposa a Trump ndi Clinton ataphatikiza.
Mfundo zomwe ndinanena zaka zinayi zapitazo zinkawoneka ngati zamphamvu komanso zonyanyira. Masiku ano iwo ali ngati malingaliro apamwamba, chabwino?
Osandipeputsa.
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