Tkuyankhulana kwake kunachitika ku ofesi ya Pulofesa Noam Chomsky ku Massachusetts Institute of Technology ku Cambridge, Massachusetts.
Krauthamer: Monga membala wa New York IWW, ndili ndi chidwi ndi momwe ogwira ntchito angathanirane ndi mavuto obwera chifukwa cha mavuto azachuma. M'nkhani yanu "Mavuto ndi Chiyembekezo: Awo ndi Athu" mu Boston Review, mumanena kuti "vuto lazachuma likhoza kuthetsedwa mwanjira ina, ndikusiya mabungwe omwe adawapanga bwino." Kutsatira izi, pakhala kuwonjezeka kwaposachedwa kwa zigawenga m'malo antchito, makamaka ku Europe konse, komanso ku North America. Monga mukudziwira, Fakitale ya Windows ndi Doors ku Chicago inali ntchito yoyamba ya fakitale ku US kuyambira 1930s.
CHOMSKY: Ayi, ayi ndithu. Kumenyedwa kwa 1979 motsutsana ndi US Steel ku Youngstown, Ohio inali ntchito ndipo, kwenikweni, chitsanzo chomwe chiyenera kutsatiridwa tsopano. Iwo adachoka pakumenya nkhondo mpaka kuyesa kuti ogwira nawo ntchito komanso anthu ammudzi azilanda mafakitale omwe adasiyidwa omwe US โโSteel idawathetsa. Kuyesayesa kwalamulo komwe kunatsatira kunali kotsogozedwa ndi loya wazamalamulo Staughton Lynd. Sanapambane mโmabwalo amilandu, koma akanapambana; akadakhala ndi chithandizo chokwanira. Zikadatanthauza zambiri.
Izi zimandipangitsa kukayikira kuyankha kwa ogwira ntchito pakuchotsedwa kwakukulu. Zikuwoneka kuti akufuna kupindula popanda kuganizira za momwe angapitirire kudziyang'anira okha.
Izi ndi zomwe IWW iyenera kuchita: kupereka kuwalako. Mukulondola, ndizochitapo kanthu. Koma ndi mmenenso zinalili ndi kumenyedwa kokhala pansi mโma 1930. Chifukwa chomwe sititi-nsinsiyi idadzetsa mantha m'mitima ya oyang'anira ndikuti adadziwa kuti silakiti yokhala pansi yatsala pang'ono kulanda fakitale.
Pakalipano IWW ikupeza ziwerengero ndi mphamvu ndi mphamvu, koma ena onse a gulu la ogwira ntchito ku America sazindikira kuti ndife ovuta kwambiri. Ndizovuta kuchoka pa zomwe tikuchita tsopano kukhala mbali ya gulu la anthu ogwira ntchito ku U.S., zomwe ziri zofunika ngati tikufuna kupereka mphamvu imeneyo.
U.S. ndi wosiyana ndi ku Europe ndi mayiko ena ogulitsa chifukwa US, kumlingo wachilendo, ndi gulu lazamalonda. Pali mitundu yonse yazifukwa za izi - ilibe maziko a feudal, kotero mabungwe omwe adatsalira ku Europe sanakhalepo pano. Koma zoona zake nโzakuti dziko la U.S. limayendetsedwa ndi gulu lazamalonda lodzipatulira, lomwe lili ndi mbiri yachiwawa kwambiri kuposa ku Ulaya. Kuwukira kwa mabungwe kwakhala koopsa kwambiri kuno ndipo kwakhala kopambana kwambiri. Komanso, nkhani zabodza zamabizinesi zotsutsana ndi mgwirizano zakhala zikuyenda bwino kwambiri kuno kuposa ku Europe, ngakhale pakati pa anthu ogwira ntchito omwe angapindule ndi mabungwe.
M'malo mwake, chinthu chochititsa chidwi kwambiri pazabodza zamabizinesi ku United States ndikuchita ziwanda kwa boma. Nkhondo Yachiwiri Yapadziko Lonse inatha ndi kuwonjezereka kwa chiwerengero cha anthu ku United States ndi kwina kulikonse, ndipo inaitanitsa mitundu yonse ya zinthu monga kulanda kotchuka, kulowererapo kwa boma, ndi kulanda antchito m'mafakitale. Mabizinesi adafalitsa nkhani zabodza kwambiri. Kukula kwake kudandidabwitsa nditawerenga maphunzirowo - anali akulu ndipo adachita bwino kwambiri. Panali zolinga zazikulu ziwiri: imodzi inali migwirizano, ina inali demokalase. Kwa iwo, demokalase inatanthauza kuchititsa anthu kuona boma monga gulu lachilendo limene likuwabera ndi kuwatsendereza, osati monga boma lawo. Mwachitsanzo, muulamuliro wa demokalase, tsiku limene mumalipiritsa misonkho, April 15, liyenera kukhala tsiku lachikondwerero chifukwa mukusonkhana pamodzi kuti mupereke zothandizira pulogalamu yomwe mwasankha. Koma ku United States, ndi tsiku lachisoni chifukwa gulu lachilendoli-boma likubwera kudzakuberani ndalama zomwe munazipeza movutikira. Ndiwo malingaliro onse ndipo ndikupambana kwakukulu kwa otsutsa demokalase. Zachidziwikire, gawo lililonse lamwayi lidzadana ndi demokalase.
Mutha kuziwona muzokambirana zachipatala. Anthu ambiri amaganiza kuti ngati boma likuyendetsa zaumoyo, likulandani ufulu wanu. Panthawi imodzimodziyo, anthu amakondera pulogalamu yaumoyo yadziko lonse. Zotsutsanazo sizimathetsedwa mwanjira ina. Pankhani ya nkhani zabodza zamabizinesi, ndizodabwitsa kwambiri chifukwa, pomwe amalonda amafuna kuti anthu azida boma, amafuna kuti anthu azikonda boma. Mwakutero, akukomera dziko lamphamvu kwambiri lomwe limagwira ntchito mwachidwi chawo. Chotero muyenera kukonda boma limenelo, koma kudana ndi boma limene lingagwire ntchito mwachidwi ndi limene mungathe kulilamulira. Imeneyi ndi ntchito yokopa yosangalatsa, koma yachitidwa bwino kwambiri. Mungaone zimenezi mโkulambira Reagan, kumene kumamusonyeza ngati munthu amene anatipulumutsa ku boma lalikulu. Kwenikweni, iye anali mtumwi wa boma lalikulu, lomwe linakula pansi pa Reagan. Iye anali wotsutsa wamphamvu kwambiri wa misika yaulere m'mbiri ya pambuyo pa nkhondo pakati pa apurezidenti. Koma ziribe kanthu chomwe chenicheni chiri; iwo anapanga fano limene anthu ankalilambira. Ndizovuta kukwaniritsa izi, makamaka m'gulu laufulu, koma zachitika, ndipo ndi mtundu wazinthu zomwe omenyera ufulu amayenera kulimbana nazo, pamalo ogulitsira. Sizophweka, koma zachitika kale.
Mwanena kuti bizinesi ndi yozindikira kwambiri. Kodi mungafotokoze?
Zomwe muyenera kuchita ndikuwerenga zolemba zamabizinesi. Mโzaka za mโma 1930 iwo anali ndi mantha kwambiri ndi nkhaลตa ponena za mmene kukwera kwa mphamvu kwa unyinji kunali kowopsa kwa ochita mafakitale. Anagwiritsa ntchito mawu olunjika a Marxistโmakhalidwe okhawo anasinthidwa. Mabuku ali chonchoโnthawi zonse amangonena za unyinji wa anthu, kuopsa kwawo, ndi mmene angawalamulire. Amakakamiza mfundo zomwe zimagwira ntchito pazokonda zawo. Mwachitsanzo, makampani a inshuwaransi ndi mabanki akuluakulu ali okondwa kwambiri tsopanoโpamasamba abizinesi sabisa nโkomweโchifukwa akwanitsa kutuluka mโmavuto amphamvu kwambiri kuposa mmene analili poyamba ndipo ali mโmalo abwinoko. kuyala maziko a vuto lotsatira. Koma iwo samasamala chifukwa adzalandidwanso. Ndiko kuzindikira kalasi ndi kubwezera.
Ndinganene tsopano akugwiritsa ntchito zokopa kwambiri pakusokoneza mgwirizano kuposa njira zachiwawa. Kodi mungavomereze?
Kwa kanthawi, pambuyo pa Nkhondo Yachiwiri Yadziko Lonse, pamene panali thandizo lamphamvu la ntchito, izi zinachitidwa mochenjera. Koma kuyambira Reagan, zachitika poyera. Reagan ankadana ndi maukwati ndipo ankafuna kuti awonongedwe. Izi zinayamba ndi kunyalanyala kwa oyang'anira ndege ndikupitilira pamenepo. Oyang'anira Reagan adauza mabungwe azamalonda kuti satsatira malamulo a ntchito. Chiwerengero cha kuwombera kosaloledwa kuwirikiza katatu pazaka za Reagan. Pa nthawiyo ndi pamene munayamba kupeza makampani awa omwe anali apadera momwe angawononge mabungwe. Samapanga chinsinsi ndipo ali ndi mitundu yonse ya njira zothandizira kuti awononge mabungwe. Clinton atabwera, zidasintha pang'ono, koma Clinton anali ndi chida china chophwanya mgwirizano chotchedwa NAFTA. Chifukwa boma linali losamvera malamulo, olemba ntchito angagwiritse ntchito NAFTA kuopseza okonza mgwirizano kuti asamutsidwe. Ndizosaloledwa, koma mukakhala ndi boma losayeruzika, zilibe kanthu ngati ndizosaloledwa. Ndikuganiza kuti kuchuluka kwa magalimoto otsekedwa otsekedwa kudakwera pafupifupi 50 peresenti.
Tikuwona kuti mu IWW, makamaka mu Starbucks Workers Union, Starbucks idzatulutsa zofalitsa zamtundu uliwonse zotsutsana ndi mgwirizano makamaka kuwauza antchito kuti sakusowa mgwirizano.
Iwo ali bwino popanda izo, ndiwo mzere wa Whole Foods.
Kulondola, amagwiritsa ntchito mzere waudindo wamakampani ndipo zambiri ndizothandiza kwambiri. Ndiye kodi ife, monga gulu lalingโono, lodziimira paokha, tingayesetse bwanji kulimbana ndi mabodza amenewo?
Muyenera kupanga anthu mwadongosolo ndikuwauza zoona. Palibe zamatsenga zamatsenga kwa izo. Chochititsa chidwi kwambiri ndi ichi chinali nkhani ya Caterpillar kumayambiriro kwa zaka za m'ma 1990. Mbozi inali yofunika kwambiri chifukwa iyi inali bizinesi yoyamba yopanga zinthu yomwe idagwiritsa ntchito njira zowononga za Reaganite. Adayitana nkhanambo mosaloledwa kuti aphwanye sitiraka yayikulu. Zafotokozedwa bwino m'nkhaniyi Chicago Tribune, zomwe zidati ogwira ntchitowa adapeza chithandizo chochepa kwambiri ku Peoria pomwe nkhanambo zidaswa mosaloledwa. Zimenezi zinali zofunika kwambiri chifukwa chakuti dera lonselo linali litamangidwa ndi mgwirizanoโunali gulu logwirizana. Koma pamene zinafika pamavuto, anthu ammudziwo sanachirikize mgwirizanowo. Tsopano ndizosangalatsa za Obama, chifukwa amayenera kulinganiza anthu ku Chicago panthawiyo. Ndikutsimikiza kuti adawerenga Chicago Tribune, choncho anadziwa. Pamene adapita kukawonetsa mgwirizano wake ndi ogwira ntchito, malo oyamba omwe adapita anali Caterpillar. Sindikuganiza kuti wayiwala ndipo gulu la ogwira ntchito silinachitepo kanthu. Ngakhale akatswiri a mbiri yakale sanakumbukire. Zinali zaka 15 zapitazo, pambuyo pake, koma ndiko kupambana kwenikweni kwa mabodza m'njira zambiri.
Ndi ntchito yochuluka kukonzanso ntchito yamphamvu, koma zidachitika kale. Mโzaka za mโma 1920 gulu la ogwira ntchito linali litatsala pangโono kuwonongedwa, koma linatsitsimukanso mโma 1930 ndipo linakhala loipitsitsa kwambiri. Zinthu zikhoza kuchitika, koma osati zokha. Ndiye inu munali ndi Chipani cha Chikomyunizimu chomwe chinali pamtima pa ufulu wachibadwidwe ndi kulimbikitsa ntchito ndi zina zotero, koma chinachake chiyenera kupereka. Simukufuna kupembedza kwawo ku Russia, koma kunyumba kwawo anali ndi mbiri yabwino. Ndikukumbukira bwino kuyambira ndili mwana, chifukwa banja langa linali anthu ogwirizana.
Abambo anu anali mu IWW, sichoncho?
Anabwera monga mlendo ndipo sankadziwa Chingerezi. Iye anapita kukagwira ntchito pa thukuta ku Baltimore. Pambuyo pake adandiuza kuti munthuyu akubwera ndipo mnyamatayo akuwoneka kuti ndi wa antchito, choncho adalembetsa. Zinapezeka kuti mnyamatayo anali wokonza IWW. Bambo anga sanadandaule kulemba; sanadziwe chomwe chinali kuchitika.
Kodi anali mu bizinesi yanji?
Sindikudziwa ngati ndidadziwapo-thukuta lina ku Baltimore. Ndinkadziwa ndi achibale anga ena. Ena mwa akaziwo anali mโbungwe la International Ladiesโ Garment Workersโ Union ndipo amunawo anali anyamata a mโmasitolo ndi zinthu ngati zimenezo. Ndinali ku Philadelphia, koma ena onse mโbanjamo anali ku New York. Ndinkatha kuona zomwe bungweli likuwachitira. Inapulumutsa miyoyo yawo. Ndinali ndi azakhali aลตiri amene anali osoka zovala ndipo analibe ntchito mโma 1930, koma mgwirizanowo unawapatsa moyo. Iwo anali ndi milungu ingapo mโdzikoli ndipo anali ndi mapulogalamu a maphunziro ndi zinthu zosiyanasiyana. Panali gulu lenileni. Ndipo iwo anali mamembala a Chipani cha Chikomyunizimuโiwo sanali kusamala mwanjira ina kapena imzake za Russia, iwo ankangosamala za United States.
Mukadakhala ndi upangiri umodzi wopatsa mibadwo yamtsogolo ya Wobblies, ukanakhala chiyani?
Ndikapita kunyumba usikuuno ndidzakhala ndi makalata 15 ochokera kwa ana aangโono amene sakonda zimene zikuchitika ndipo akufuna kuchitapo kanthu. Amandifunsa ngati ndingawapatse malangizo okhudza zimene ayenera kuchitaโkapena ndingawauze zoti awerenge kapena chinachake. Sizimagwira ntchito choncho. Zimatengera kwambiri kuti ndinu ndani, zomwe mumakonda, zomwe mumadzipereka, zomwe mukukhalamo, komanso zomwe mukufuna kuchita. Izo zimatsimikizira zomwe muyenera kuchita.
Komabe, pali malingaliro ofala kwambiri omwe anthu angawakumbukire; iwo ndi mtundu wa truisms. Ndikoyenera kuwatchula chifukwa nthawi zonse amakanidwa. Choyamba, musakhulupirire chilichonse chomwe mumamva kuchokera kumagetsi amagetsi. Ngati Obama kapena abwana kapena nyuzipepala kapena wina aliyense akuuzani kuti akuchita izi, izo, kapena zina, zichotseni kapena kuganiza kuti zosiyana ndi zoona, zomwe nthawi zambiri zimakhala. Muyenera kudzidalira nokha ndi anzanu. Mumapambana polimbana ndi zomwe zimafuna kumvetsetsa ndi kusanthula kwakukulu kwa zosankha ndi zochitika, ndiyeno mukhoza kuchita zambiri.
Mwachitsanzo, lingalirani pakali pano. Pali zipolowe za mapiko akumanja. Ndizofala kwambiri, ngakhale kumanzere kuwanyoza. Koma sikuli koyenera kuchita. Mukawayang'ana anthuwa ndikuwamvera pa wailesi, awa ndi anthu omwe ali ndi madandaulo enieni. Ndimamvetsera kulankhula kwambiri pa wailesi ndipo zimakhala zosangalatsa. Ngati mutha kuyimitsa chidziwitso chanu chadziko lapansi ndikungolowa m'dziko la anthu omwe akuitana, mutha kuwamvetsetsa. Sindinawonepo phunziro, koma lingaliro langa ndiloti awa ndi anthu omwe amamva chisoni kwambiri. Anthu awa amaganiza kuti, โNdachita zonse bwino mโmoyo wanga wonse, ndine Mkristu woopa Mulungu, ndine woyera, ndine mwamuna, ndagwira ntchito molimbika, ndipo ndimanyamula mfuti. Ndimachita zonse zomwe ndiyenera kuchita. Ndipo ine ndikusowa.โ Ndipo, kwenikweni, iwo akuphwanyidwa. Kwa zaka 30 malipiro awo akucheperachepera kapena kutsika, mikhalidwe ya anthu ikuipiraipira, ana amisala, kulibe sukulu, kulibe kalikonse, kotero kuti winawake ayenera kukhala akuchita chinachake kwa iwo, ndipo amafuna kudziwa kuti ndani. Rush Limbaugh wayankha: ndi olemera omasuka omwe ali ndi mabanki ndikuyendetsa boma ndikuyendetsa atolankhani. Iwo samasamala za inu. Amangofuna kuti apereke chilichonse kwa anthu olowa m'dziko losaloledwa ndi boma komanso amuna kapena akazi okhaokha komanso achikomyunizimu ndi zina zotero.
Zomwe tiyenera kuchita kwa iwo si kunyoza, koma kudzidzudzula. Ndife omwe tiyenera kuwakonza, osati Rush Limbaugh. Pali ma analogi akale, omwe si enieni, ndithudi, koma ali pafupi kwambiri kuti akhale odetsa nkhawa. Ichi ndi chiwombankhanga choyambirira cha Nazi Germany. Hitler anali kukopa magulu omwe ali ndi madandaulo ofanana ndi kuwapatsa mayankho openga, koma osachepera anali mayankho: ndiko kuti, amaimba mlandu Ayuda ndi a Bolshevik. Iwo anali vuto.
Ma Liberal Democrats sadzauza anthu wamba waku America kuti, "Inde, mukuphwanyidwa chifukwa cha mfundo zomwe takhazikitsa pazaka zomwe tikuzisunga pano." Ilo silikhala yankho. Ndipo sakupeza mayankho kuchokera kumanzere. Pali mgwirizano wamkati ndi malingaliro pazomwe amapeza kuchokera ku Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, ndi ena onse a anyamatawa. Ndipo amawoneka okhutiritsa kwambiri, amadzidalira kwambiri, ndipo ali ndi yankho ku chirichonse-yankho lopenga, koma ndi yankho. Ndipo ndi vuto lathu ngati izi zipitilira. Chifukwa chake, chinthu chimodzi choyenera kuchita ndikuti musanyoze anthu awa, kujowina nawo, ndikulankhula za madandaulo awo enieni ndi kuwapatsa yankho lanzeru, monga, โTengani mafakitale anu.
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Diane Krauthamer ndi membala wa IWW komanso wopanga filimuyi Pamodzi Timapambana: Nkhondo Yokonzekera Starbucks. Kuyankhulana uku kudakonzedwa kuti zikhale zazitali komanso zomveka. Kuti mumvetsere kuyankhulana kwathunthu, chonde pitani authoritysmashers.wordpress.com. Zikomo chifukwa cha Charngchi Way ndi "Authority Smashing! Ola".