Puna: Democracy Now!
Ke hoʻāhewa nei nā hui pono kanaka i ke aupuni o India no ka hoʻokō ʻana i ka hoʻomāinoino ākea, ka pepehi kanaka keu, ka hopu ʻole a me nā hewa ʻē aʻe ma Kashmir ma hope o ka hoʻopau ʻia ʻana o ke kūlana kūikawā o ka ʻāina i ʻAukake. Ke kamaʻilio nei mākou i ka mea kākau ʻōlelo India ʻo Arundhati Roy e pili ana i ka hoʻopaʻapaʻa ʻana ma Kashmir, ka piʻi ʻana o ka authoritarianism ma India a me nā pilikia ʻē aʻe.
AMY GOODMAN: ʻo kēia ʻO ka Democracy Nei!, democracynow.org, ʻO ke kaua a me ka'ōlelo hoʻomalu. ʻO wau ʻo Amy Goodman, ke huli nei mākou i kēia manawa i ka pilikia ma Kashmir ke hoʻomau nei ka hoʻopaʻapaʻa ʻana o India. I ke kauwela, ua hū ʻia nā kūʻē nui ma hope o ka hoʻopau ʻana o ke Kuhina Nui ʻo Narendra Modi i ke kūlana kūikawā o ka ʻāpana i hoʻomalu ʻia e India o ka ʻāina nui o Muslim. Ua ʻōlelo nā pūʻulu kuleana kanaka, ua hana ke aupuni o Modi i ka hoʻomāinoino ākea, ka pepehi kanaka ʻole, ka hopu ʻole a me nā hewa ʻē aʻe ma Kashmir. Ma ʻAukake 5th, ua kau ʻia kahi ʻeleʻele kamaʻilio piha ma laila.
Huli mākou i kēia manawa i ka mea kākau India a me ka mea hana ʻo Arundhati Roy. Ua ʻōlelo lōʻihi ʻo ia no ka hoʻoholo ʻana iā ia iho no ka poʻe o Kashmir. Ua lanakila ʻo Arundhati Roy i ka makana Booker ma 1997 no kāna moʻolelo mua, Ke Akua o na mea liilii. ʻO kāna puke lua, Ke Kuhina o ka Hauoli Loa, ua lōʻihi loa ia no ka Man Booker Prize ma 2017. Ma 2002, ua loaʻa ʻo Roy i ka Lannan Foundation Cultural Freedom Prize. ʻO kāna puke hou loa ʻo ia ka hōʻiliʻili o kāna mau moʻolelo nonfiction, i kapa ʻia Ko'u Puuwai Kipi. ʻO ka Democracy Nei!Ua nīnauele māua ʻo Nermeen Shaikh me Arundhati Roy i kā mākou studio New York. Ua hoʻomaka wau ma ka nīnau ʻana iā ia e pili ana i ka pilikia ma Kashmir.
ARUNDHATI ROY: ʻAe, ʻaʻole wau - ʻo wau, ʻaʻohe mea nui o koʻu puʻuwai me ia. Akā, no laila, ʻo kēia ka lā haneli o ke ʻano o ka ʻike a me ka pani ʻana o ka pūnaewele ma Kashmir. Aia ma lalo o ka curfew no ka hapa nui o kēia mau haneli mau lā. I kēia manawa ua hoʻopau ʻia ka curfew. Ua wehe hou ʻia nā kula. Ua wehe ʻia nā mākeke. Akā ke hōʻole nei ʻo Kashmiris e ʻae i kahi ʻano maʻamau, ʻike ʻoe, no ka mea, ʻo ka mea i hana ʻia ma ka lā 5 o ʻAukake, ʻo ia ka hoʻopau ʻana i ka mea i kapa ʻia ʻo Pauku 370, ka mea i hoʻokomo maoli i loko o ke Kumukānāwai India i nā kūlana kūikawā e pili ana i ke aupuni mōʻī. Ua komo ʻo Jammu lāua ʻo Kashmir i India. A no laila, ma ka hoʻohaʻahaʻa ʻana i kēlā, ua luku lākou - ua hoʻohaʻahaʻa lākou iā Kashmir mai kahi mokuʻāina a lilo i mea i ʻike ʻia he ʻāina hui. Ua hoʻokaʻawale lākou. Akā ʻo ka mea nui loa, ua hoʻopau lākou i kahi kānāwai i kapa ʻia ʻo 35A, ka mea i hoʻolilo iā Kashmir i mau kahu no ko lākou ʻāina ponoʻī. No laila, ʻike ʻoe, hiki ke hoʻopau ʻia ʻo Kashmir e nā India. ʻO ia ke ʻano a lākou e ʻike ai. ʻO koʻu manaʻo, ʻo India, ʻike ʻoe, ma mua, ua ʻōlelo ʻo Kashmir he ʻāpana koʻikoʻi o India. Akā i kēia manawa ua ʻōlelo lākou i kēia manawa he ʻāpana koʻikoʻi o India, ʻike ʻoe? No laila—
AMY GOODMAN: No ke aha he mea nui iā Modi?
ARUNDHATI ROY: ʻAe, he mea nui ia. ʻIke ʻoe, ʻo Modi ka mea - ʻoi aku ma mua o ka BJP, No Modi ka RSS, ka Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, ʻo ia kekahi ʻano o ka makuahine o ka - ka moʻomeheu makuahine i BJP he lima kalaiaina. A ʻo ka hoʻohaʻahaʻa ʻana i kēia pauku, aia nō ia ma ka papahana o ka RSS, maopopo iā ʻoe? No laila, ʻo ia - kēlā me kēia, ke hana ʻia nei kēia mau mea, ʻo ia nā mea a lākou i hoʻohiki ai e hana. ʻAʻohe mea paʻakikī a hikiwawe paha. ʻAʻole ia he kumukānāwai a he kānāwai ʻole paha, akā ʻaʻole ia he impulsive.
AMY GOODMAN: E hōʻike i ke kūlana kiʻekiʻe o Hindu?
ARUNDHATI ROY: Ae 'ae.
NERMEEN KANAKA: ʻAe, ma mua o kēia makahiki, ua kākau ʻoe i kahi wahi manaʻo ma Kashmir no The New York Times poʻomanaʻo "The Silence Is the Loudest Sound." Ma ka ʻāpana, ua kākau ʻoe, e ʻōlelo, "ʻOiai ʻo ka hoʻokaʻawale ʻana a me ka hana ʻino weliweli i hana ʻia he ʻeha hohonu, ʻaʻole hoʻōla ʻia i ka hoʻomanaʻo ʻana o ka subcontinent, ka hana ʻino o ia mau manawa, a me nā makahiki mai ia manawa, ma India a me Pakistan. , e pili ana i ka assimilation e like me ka partition. … ʻO ka mea e hōʻike nei i kēia lā ma nā ʻaoʻao ʻelua o ka palena o ka mokuʻāina kahiko ʻo Jammu a me Kashmir ʻo ia ka hana hoʻopau ʻole o ka assimilation. Ua kākau ʻoe i kēlā ma The New York Times i ʻAukake. Hiki iā ʻoe ke kamaʻilio e pili ana i kāu mea i manaʻo ai?
ARUNDHATI ROY: ʻAe, ʻo kaʻu mea i manaʻo ai, ʻike ʻoe, poina mākou i ka manawa o Partition aia ma mua o 500 mau ʻāina kūʻokoʻa kūʻokoʻa, nā aupuni, nā aupuni aliʻi, nā ʻāina. A i ka wā i haʻalele ai ka poʻe Pelekania, mai ia manawa, ʻoiaʻiʻo, mai ka makahiki 1947, aia kahi kaʻina hana mau, kahi hana koa, e hoʻohui i kēia mau wahi. ʻO koʻu manaʻo, ʻo Jammu lāua ʻo Kashmir kekahi o lākou, akā ma ka ʻaoʻao hikina hikina - ʻike ʻoe, Nagaland, Mizoram, Manipur, kēia mau wahi āpau. A loaʻa iā lākou a pau nā ʻōlelo kikoʻī a me nā kūlana kūikawā i komo ai lākou i ka uniona. No laila, ʻo ia kaʻu i manaʻo ai, ʻike ʻoe, ma ka hana ʻino o ka assimilation, ʻo ia hoʻi, ʻo kaʻu manaʻo, inā ʻo ka mokuʻāina aliʻi o Junagadh a i ʻole Hyderabad a i ʻole ka mea i hana ʻia ma Nagaland, he mau haneli, ʻumi paha mau tausani - ʻaʻole lākou. helu kino, aka, ua make na tausani kanaka. ʻO kaʻu manaʻo, ma Hyderabad wale nō, he 40,000, ʻōlelo mai kahi hōʻike hou, ʻike ʻoe? Ma Nagaland, ua ʻoi aku ma mua o kēlā. Ma Kashmir, he 70,000 ka poʻe i make i kēia hakakā. No laila, nui nā helu a hūnā ʻia e ke ʻano o ka walaʻau a me nā mele a me nā leo o ka demokala. Akā, no laila, ʻo kēia mau kaua, e like me Kashmir, ua paʻa ka hakakā - no ke kūʻokoʻa ua hakakā mai ka makahiki 1990. A i kēia lā ʻo ia ka ʻoihana koa paʻakikī loa i ka honua, i hoʻonui ʻia i ʻAukake, ma ka lā 5 o ʻAukake, e kekahi 50,000. nā pūʻali koa i lele ʻia e hoʻoponopono i ka hāʻule ʻana o nā mea e hiki mai ana ma hope o kēia hoʻopau ʻana.
AMY GOODMAN: No laila, he aha ke ʻano o kēia ʻeleʻele? A ʻehia ka poʻe i hopu ʻia? Ua lohe paha ʻoe e pili ana i ka hoʻomāinoino? A he aha ka pane a Pakistan?
ARUNDHATI ROY: ʻAe, ua hopu ʻia nā tausani o nā kānaka. ʻO ka mea kupaianaha, ua hopu ʻia nā alakaʻi ma ke ʻano he nui, me ʻekolu mau kuhina nui, nā poʻe kālai'āina pro-India, e lawe ana i ka wai o India mai 1947.
No laila, ʻo ka mea i hana ʻia i kēia manawa ʻaʻohe leo e puka mai ana mai Kashmir. ʻO ia ke kumu aʻu i ʻōlelo ai ʻo ka hāmau ka leo nui loa. ʻO kēlā me kēia kanaka, inā ʻo ka poʻe kālai'āina nui, ʻo nā keiki kāne paha e kilo pōhaku ma ke alanui, ʻo ka poʻe ʻoihana paha, nā loio - aia nā kānaka āpau i ka hale paʻahao, i kēia manawa. ʻIke ʻoe, a laila ʻoki lākou i nā kelepona. Ua ʻoki lākou i ka pūnaewele. ʻO wau, hiki iā ʻoe ke noʻonoʻo? I ka manawa hea i hana ʻia ai ma mua, 7 miliona mau kānaka, laka kamaʻilio? ʻAʻole ʻike ka poʻe inā ua make kā lākou mau keiki, inā ola lākou. I ka pō, hele nā mākaʻi a me nā koa i nā hale o nā kānaka, hopu iā lākou. ʻIke ʻoe, no laila - ʻaʻole maopopo mākou i ka pae o ka weliweli i hana ʻia. A ʻo ka mea ʻoiaʻiʻo, aia kekahi mau laina - ua hoʻihoʻi ʻia kekahi mau laina kelepona, akā ʻaʻole naʻe i hoʻihoʻi ʻia ka pūnaewele, ma kahi ʻāina a hiki i kēia manawa, ke kaena nei lākou no Digital India. Hana nā mea a pau ma ka pūnaewele, ʻike ʻoe, inā ʻoe - ʻo wau, inā he halemai a i ʻole nā lako lāʻau a i ʻole - ʻike ʻoe, ua hoʻopaʻa ʻia ka media Kashmiri. No laila, ua like ia me kēlā mau puke liʻiliʻi a ka poʻe ʻAmelika e hāʻule ai i Vietnam i ka wā o ke kaua e ʻōlelo ana i ka nui o kēia kaua no ʻoe. Loaʻa i nā nūpepa ma Kashmir kēia mau hoʻolaha nui ma mua o ka ʻaoʻao e pili ana i ka maikaʻi o kēia hoʻohui ʻana no Kashmir a nani hoʻi ka manawa a lākou i kēia manawa, ʻike ʻoe? No laila—
NERMEEN KANAKA: ʻAe, makemake wau e hele i kahi mokuʻāina ʻē aʻe ma India e hoʻopuni ʻia ana, a ʻo ia ka mokuʻāina ʻākau o Assam, kahi kokoke i 2 miliona mau kānaka i ka pilikia o ka lilo ʻole ʻia ma hope o ka hoʻopuka ʻana o ke aupuni i kāna National Register of Citizens ma mua o kēia makahiki. Ua hoʻokumu mua ʻia ka papa inoa hoʻopaʻapaʻa nui i ka makahiki 1951 a me ka papa inoa o nā poʻe i hiki ke hōʻoia i ko lākou hele ʻana i ka mokuʻāina ma ka lā 24 o Malaki, 1971 - he lā ma mua o Bangladesh, a laila ʻo East Pakistan, i haʻi aku i ke kūʻokoʻa mai Pakistan. Ua ʻōlelo ke aupuni India e kōkua ana ka papa inoa i ka ʻike ʻana i nā malihini Bangladeshi ʻaʻole lākou he kamaʻāina kū kānāwai. Ua ʻōlelo ka poʻe hoʻohewa he hoʻāʻo ia e hoʻokuʻu i nā miliona o ka Muslim. Hiki ke hoʻopili ʻia nā kamaʻāina i manaʻo ʻia he poʻe haole a hoʻouna ʻia i nā hale paʻahao. Aia ma kahi o 10 mau hale paʻahao lehulehu ke kūkulu ʻia nei ma ia wahi no ka hoʻopaʻa ʻana i kēia poʻe i kapa ʻia he poʻe ʻāina ʻole. No laila, e Arundhati, ua hele mai nei ʻoe ma Assam. Hiki iā ʻoe ke kamaʻilio e pili ana i ke kūlana i kēia manawa, a me kēia mau hale paʻahao e kūkulu ʻia nei?
ARUNDHATI ROY: E ʻike, paʻakikī loa ke kūlana ma Assam, ʻike ʻoe, no ka mea, e like me kāu i ʻōlelo ai, he mokuʻāina ʻo Assam e pili ana i Bangladesh. Ma mua, he ʻāpana ia o ka mea i kapa ʻia ʻo East Bengal, a laila lilo ʻo East Pakistan, a lilo ʻo Bangladesh. A he moʻolelo o ka neʻe ʻana mai e like me 1826 a i ʻole ma mua. I ka wā i lilo ai ka poʻe Pelekāne iā Assam, ua kono nui lākou i ke ʻano o ka poʻe mahiʻai ikaika o East Bengal e hele mai i kēia mokuʻāina, a lākou i manaʻo ai, e like me ka manaʻo o ka poʻe Pelekania ma Australia, ʻike ʻoe, terra nullius. ʻAʻole lākou i hoʻolohe i ka ʻoiaʻiʻo ua noho ʻia e nā ʻohana he nui loa. Aia he 200 mau ʻohana like ʻole, nā ʻōlelo, nā kaiāulu. Aia kahi moʻolelo i ka National Citizens Register ma Assam ʻaʻole hiki ke maʻalahi, ʻike ʻoe? ʻAʻole ia ka manaʻo o ka poʻe ma ka ʻāina nui o India, "ʻAe, kekahi pilikia Hindu-Muslim." ʻAʻole ia. ʻOi aku ka ʻoi aku o ka huhū o ka poʻe Assamese, a i ʻole ka poʻe i manaʻo he Assamese lākou, kūʻē iā Bengalis. A laila aia kahi pilikia ʻōlelo ma laila ʻo ka haʻi ʻana o ka poʻe Pelekania ʻo Bengali ka ʻōlelo.
Akā ʻo ke kūlana i kēia manawa, ʻoiaʻiʻo, ʻo ka manaʻo nui o kēia manawa ke ʻano o ka hoʻopili ʻana iā ia iho i kahi pilikia maoli o nā miliona - ʻike ʻoe, miliona o ka poʻe mahuka e hele mai ana mai Bangladesh. A i kēia manawa ua noho lākou - ua noho ka poʻe ma laila, e like me kaʻu i ʻōlelo ai, no nā makahiki he 150 a ʻoi aʻe, a ʻaʻole koke lākou e ʻōlelo nei, "E hana i kāu mau pepa hoʻoilina" - ʻaʻole hikiwawe, ʻo wau ke hoʻomau nei. nā '50s. ʻO ka pilikia maoli: He aha kā lākou e hoʻolālā nei e hana? ʻO kaʻu manaʻo, ʻo kēia mau kānaka 2 miliona, ʻōlelo lākou he pono lākou e hele i mua o ka ʻaha hoʻokolokolo. Ua mākaʻikaʻi au i kekahi o kēia mau mokupuni i kapa ʻia ʻo Char islands. ʻO ka ʻilihune, ka ʻike ʻole - ʻaʻohe olakino, hoʻonaʻauao, ʻaʻohe kula. A ua like ʻoe me ka hoʻolei ʻana i kēia poʻe i loko o kēia labyrinth o ka bureaucracy a me nā loio a me ka weliweli ma nā ʻano ʻē aʻe, ʻike ʻoe?
AMY GOODMAN: A he aha ka manaʻo inā nalowale ʻoe i kou kamaʻāina?
ARUNDHATI ROY: ʻO koʻu manaʻo, e like me kā Hannah Arendt i ʻōlelo ai, ʻike ʻoe, he aha ke kamaʻāina? ʻO ia ke kuleana e loaʻa nā kuleana, ʻike ʻoe? Nalo ʻoe i kēlā, nalowale nā mea a pau. Akā, ʻike ʻoe, no laila, ua lōʻihi ka hakakā ma Assam. No ka laʻana, i ka makahiki 1983, aia ka pepehi kanaka ʻo Nellie, kahi, ʻike ʻoe, ma ke ʻano he 2,000 mau kānaka. Me ka manaʻo ʻole, ua pepehi ʻia a hiki i 10,000 Muslims. Eia hou, ʻaʻole hiki iā ʻoe ke kau pololei i ka hoʻopaʻapaʻa like e hele nei ma ka ʻāina nui.
Akā i kēia lā ʻo ka pōʻino maoli ʻo ke Kuhina Kalaiaina, ʻo Amit Shah, i ka lā i noho ai ʻo ia i ke keʻena, ua haʻi ʻo ia e hele mua lākou - ʻo ka mua, ʻōlelo lākou, e ʻae lākou i ka NRC a puni o Inia. Ua ʻae ʻo ia i nā luna kānāwai a me nā aupuni mokuʻāina e hoʻokumu i kēia mau ʻaha hoʻokolokolo a me nā hale paʻahao o nā haole ma India. A i kēia manawa ka pilikia a lākou e manaʻo nei me ka NRC ma Assam, ka National Register of Citizens, ʻo ia ka 2 miliona mau kānaka, ʻoiaʻiʻo, ʻaʻole ʻo 2 miliona he Muslim. ʻOi aku ma mua o ka hapalua i manaʻo ʻia i ka Hindu a i ʻole ka poʻe i hiki ʻole ke hōʻoia i kēia hoʻoilina hoʻoilina ʻole mai ka makahiki 1971. No laila, ʻo ka BJP, i mea e hoopau ai i kela pilikia, ke manao nei i ke kau o ka Ahaolelo e hooholo i ka bila hoololi kupa, a laila e hoololi ai i keia hana holookoa e olelo maopopo ai, o ka poe Kristiano, Buddhists, Hindus, refugees, hoomaau i ka poe mahuka mai. ʻO nā ʻāina ʻē aʻe, mai nā ʻāina ʻo Pakistan, Afghanistan a me Bangladesh, e hāʻawi ʻia i ke kamaʻāina - no laila, e haʻalele ana i nā Mahometa - a laila e hoʻohana i ka bogey o ka Bangladeshi a i ʻole ka mea mahuka Muslim a i ʻole infiltrator, ka mea a ke Kuhina Kalaiaina i kapa ai he "termites," i. noi maoli i ka heluna kanaka holoʻokoʻa o India e hana i nā palapala hoʻoilina. He aha kēlā manaʻo? Maopopo iā ʻoe? ʻO ka mea wale nō - ʻo ka manawa hope loa i hana ʻia i ka makahiki 1935 ma Kelemania, ʻike ʻoe, i ka wā i ʻōlelo ai ka Reich, ʻo nā pepa a mākou e hāʻawi ai iā ʻoe e hoʻoholo inā he kamaʻāina ʻoe a ʻaʻole paha. No laila, he kūlana weliweli loa.
AMY GOODMAN: A laila, loaʻa iā ʻoe kēia hoʻomohala hou loa o ka ʻAha Kiʻekiʻe o India e hoʻoholo ana i ka poʻe Hindu i loko o kahi hoʻopaʻapaʻa mau makahiki - pehea The New York Times wehewehe? — ma luna o kahi kahua hoʻāno i hakakā ʻia e ka poʻe Muslim, e hāʻawi ana i ke kuhina nui a me kāna poʻe hahai i ka lanakila nui i kā lākou ʻimi ʻana e hoʻihoʻi hou i ka ʻāina ma ke ʻano he Hindu a hoʻoneʻe hou iā ia mai kona kumu honua. E wehewehe i ke ʻano o kēia kahua hoʻāno.
ARUNDHATI ROY: ʻAe, ʻo wau, he hoʻopaʻapaʻa maikaʻi ʻole, pono wau e ʻōlelo, ʻike ʻoe? No laila, ua kūkulu ʻia ka Babri Masjid i ka kenekulia 16. A ma 1949, ma hope o ke kūʻokoʻa, ua ʻōlelo ka poʻe Hindu ua hoʻokumu ʻia ke kiʻi kino maoli o Ram Lalla, ke akua ʻōpio ʻo Ram. Ua ʻōlelo mau lākou ʻo ia ka wahi hānau o ka Haku Ram. A laila, i ka hopena o '80s a me ka hoʻomaka '90s, e like me ka BJP ke ala nei, ua alakaʻi ia i kahi hoʻolaha nui e ʻōlelo ana makemake mākou e kūkulu ʻia kahi luakini Ram ma laila. A i ka '92, he lehulehu, alakaʻi ʻia e ka BJP a ʻo kahi hui i kapa ʻia ʻo Vishva Hindu Parishad, i hoʻomaloʻo i kēlā hale pule i lepo. A mai ia manawa - a ma hope o kēlā, ma kahi o 2,000 poʻe i make i nā haunaele, ʻo ka hapa nui o Muslim. A mai ia manawa mai, ʻo ia ka ipu hao i lawe ʻia i mua i kēlā me kēia manawa o ka BJP ua hooikaika no ke koho balota: "Pono kakou e kukulu i keia luakini," a pela aku. No laila, i kēia manawa, ʻo ka ʻōlelo hoʻoholo no ka mea ua hiki mai kēia mau pilikia ʻē aʻe e paʻa mau loa ana - ʻike ʻoe, Kashmir a me ka National Register of Citizens. A no laila, ʻo ka manawa kēia e hoʻokumu ai i kēia lanakila nui.
A ʻo ka ʻōlelo hoʻoholo o ka ʻAha Kiʻekiʻe, ʻo ia hoʻi, ʻaʻole au i heluhelu, no ka mea i puka mai i nehinei, akā he tausani ʻaoʻao ka lōʻihi. A ua heluhelu wale au, ʻike ʻoe, nā ʻāpana mai ia mea. Akā me he mea lā - ʻaʻole hiki ke hoʻokō ʻia kona loiloi, no ka mea, ma kekahi ʻaoʻao, ʻōlelo ʻia ʻaʻohe mea hōʻike i loaʻa kahi luakini Hindu ma lalo o kēia hale pule. Ua ʻōlelo ʻia he ʻano hoʻomāinoino ʻole i ka hale pule i ʻelua mau manawa: hoʻokahi i ka wā i hoʻokomo ʻia ai kēia kiʻi liʻiliʻi, a ʻo kekahi i ka wā i wāwahi ʻia e ka lehulehu. Akā, ʻōlelo ʻia ʻaʻole hiki i ka poʻe Muslim ke hōʻoia i ko lākou hoʻomana ʻana ma kēia hale pule me ka pau ʻole i kēia mau makahiki. ʻAʻole maopopo iaʻu he aha kā lākou e hana nei i loko o ka hale pule, inā ʻaʻole hoʻomana. A ʻoiai ʻaʻole he luakini, a ʻoiai ʻaʻohe mea hōʻoia, ua hiki i ka Hinedu ke hōʻoia i ka loaʻa ʻole o ka luakini iā lākou, a no laila ua hāʻawi ʻia ka ʻāina i kahi hilinaʻi, nāna e kūkulu i kēia. heiau. No laila, ʻano wili iki iaʻu, ka mea holoʻokoʻa.
Akā, ke manaʻo nei au, ʻike ʻoe, ʻo ka mea hoihoi loa ʻo ia i nā lā e hiki mai ana i kēia, aia, ʻike ʻoe, ʻo ka Pauku 144, e pāpā ana i ka ʻaha kanaka. Ua puka aku nā mākaʻi. Ua puka aku na makai hoohaunaele. Ke nānā ʻia nei ka ʻoihana pūnaewele. Ua puka mai ke kuhina nui a ʻōlelo mai, "Makemake mākou i ka maluhia," no ka mea, ma ke ʻano, he mea - ʻo ia ka maluhia o ka lanakila. ʻIke ʻoe, makemake ka poʻe lanakila i ka maluhia i kēia manawa. Akā, e hōʻike ana iā ʻoe pehea, inā makemake lākou e hoʻomalu i kahi kūlana, hiki iā lākou, a ke makemake lākou e ʻae i nā haunaele, nā lynchings, ʻike koke lākou i ke kōkua ʻole, ʻike ʻoe?
AMY GOODMAN: ʻO ka mea kākau India a me ka mea hana ʻo Arundhati Roy. E hoʻi mākou me ia i hoʻokahi minuke.
[wāwahi]
AMY GOODMAN: ʻo kēia ʻO ka Democracy Nei!, democracynow.org, ʻO ke kaua a me ka'ōlelo hoʻomalu. ʻO wau ʻo Amy Goodman, ke hoʻomau nei mākou i kā mākou kamaʻilio ʻana me ka mea kākau India a me ka mea hana ʻo Arundhati Roy. Ua ninaninau au iā ia me ʻO ka Democracy Nei!ʻO Nermeen Shaikh.
NERMEEN KANAKA: No laila, ma mua o kēia makahiki, i ka wā i kipa aku ai ke Kuhina Nui ʻo Narendra Modi i ʻAmelika, ua ʻike ʻia ʻo Pelekikena Trump me Modi ma kahi hui ʻo Houston, Texas, i kapa ʻia ʻo "Howdy Modi." Ma kahi o 50,000 mau ʻAmelika ʻAmelika i hele i ka hanana, e oli ana iā "Modi! Modi!” ʻoiai ʻo ia i hōʻike ʻia ma ke kahua e hoʻolauna iā Trump, e kāhea ana iā ia, e ʻōlelo, "kuʻu hoaaloha, he hoaaloha o India, he pelekikena ʻAmelika nui." ʻO ka hanana ʻo Howdy Modi ka hanana nui loa o kāna ʻano me kahi alakaʻi kipa ma ʻAmelika. Ua hoʻomaikaʻi aku ʻo Trump iā Modi i kāna ʻōlelo ma ka hanana.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I Nowemapa, e hōʻike ana ʻo ʻAmelika Hui Pū ʻIa a me India i kahi holomua nui o kā mākou pilina pale, e paʻa ana i ka hoʻomaʻamaʻa kaua tri-service mua ma waena o ko mākou mau lāhui. Ua kapa ʻia ʻo Tiger Triumph. inoa maikai. He inoa maikaʻi. … Ua hoʻomaopopo pū ʻo India, ʻAmelika Hui Pū ʻIa e mālama pono i ko mākou mau kaiāulu, pono mākou e pale i ko mākou mau palena.
NERMEEN KANAKA: No laila, ʻo ia ʻo Trump e kamaʻilio nei i ka hanana Howdy Modi ma mua o kēia makahiki. No laila, hiki iā ʻoe ke kamaʻilio e pili ana i ka pilina ma waena o Trump a me Modi, a me kēia pūʻulu o nā hanana ma India, he ʻano kūleʻa nā mea āpau no ke aupuni Modi? Ua kamaʻilio wale mākou e pili ana iā Kashmir, ka National Register of Citizens, a i kēia manawa kēia hoʻokolokolo Ayodhya.
ARUNDHATI ROY: ʻIke, ʻo kēia - e like me kaʻu i ʻōlelo ai, ʻike ʻoe, pili loa lākou a pau, a he ʻāpana lākou o ka RSS papahana. No laila, ʻoiaʻiʻo, ʻike ʻoe, nā supremacists keʻokeʻo a i ʻole nā neo-Nazis a i ʻole Aryan supremacists, pono lākou a pau e nānā i ka India. RSS me ka huāhuā nui, no ka mea, ʻaʻole hiki i kekahi o lākou ke hoʻohālikelike i kēlā ʻano moʻolelo a me ka hui i kēia manawa. Loaʻa iā lākou he 600,000 mau mea manawaleʻa, ʻike ʻoe, hoʻomaʻamaʻa paramilitary. ʻO Modi, ʻoiaʻiʻo, he lālā o ia hui. Loaʻa iā lākou he 57,000 mau lālā a puni ka ʻāina. Holo lākou i nā kula kahi e aʻo ai nā miliona o nā haumāna. ʻO nā mea a pau loa - no laila, e like me kāu e ʻike ai, ua kokoke ʻo Trump i ka mahalo ʻana, ma kona ʻāina ponoʻī, ʻike ʻoe, ua hāʻawi ʻia i kēia lehulehu lehulehu. ʻO koʻu manaʻo, pono wau e haʻi aku iā ʻoe i ko mākou noho ʻana -
AMY GOODMAN: ʻO ka makana i kēia anaina nui o ka poʻe kala.
ARUNDHATI ROY: ʻO nā kānaka kala. A ʻo ia, ʻoiaʻiʻo, ʻo Trump, i loko o ʻelua mau lā o kēia, ke noho nei - ʻike ʻoe, ua hiki mai ka nūhou impeachment.
Akā, ʻike ʻoe, he aha ka mea e hana nei ma India a me kēia mau lanakila a pau e hōʻiliʻili nei i kēlā me kēia, ke poina nei ʻoe i kēlā demonetization, ʻo ia ka hoʻolaha mua a Modi - manaʻo wau i kēia lā ʻekolu makahiki - ʻekolu makahiki makahiki o ia. , i ka wā i hele mai ai ʻo Modi ma TV a hoʻolaha ʻo 80% o ke kālā o India ʻaʻole i kū kānāwai hou. I kēia mau lā, ʻōlelo ka poʻe ekonomi, ua like ia me ka pana ʻana i nā kaʻa mai kahi kaʻa heihei. Ke holo nei ka hoʻokele waiwai o India, ʻike ʻoe? Ua ʻōlelo ka poʻe ʻekonomist aia maoli i ka recession, ʻaʻole pololei nā helu.
A inā ʻoe e hele mai i India, e ʻike ʻoe i ka weliweli o ke kūlana, no ka mea ʻaʻole hiki iā ʻoe ke ʻōlelo inā he 45 mau makahiki haʻahaʻa o kēia pohō o nā hana - kiʻekiʻe, ʻaʻole hana, inā ʻo kēia mau poʻe hana ʻole i kēia manawa. ka loaʻa ʻana o ka cocaine kiʻekiʻe o ke kūkulu ʻana i ka luakini o Ram a, ʻike ʻoe, e hana ana i nā wikiō fascist, a i ʻole e kūʻē paha ia iā Modi. ʻAʻole hiki iaʻu ke ʻōlelo, ʻike ʻoe? Akā, e lilo ana kēia mau lanakila i lanakila Pyrrhic. ʻAʻole maopopo iaʻu pehea ka lōʻihi e iho ai lākou i lalo. ʻAʻole maopopo iaʻu i ka nui o mākou e uku i ke kumukūʻai no ia. A ʻaʻole maopopo iaʻu pehea e ola ai ʻo India i kēia, no ka mea he ʻāina ʻo India - ʻaʻole ia he ʻāina. He ʻāina ʻāina. He ʻāina ia me 780 mau ʻōlelo a ʻoi aku ka nui o nā hoʻomana ma mua o ʻEulopa. ʻIke ʻoe, hiki i kēia ʻano mea he manawa pōkole wale nō. A laila hiki ke loaʻa kekahi mea weliweli loa e hiki mai ana, ke ʻike ʻole ka poʻe i ka mea e hana ʻia nei iā lākou. Akā, ke noho nei lākou i loko o kahi ʻano hale wela o ka hoʻolaha a me ka hoʻokele hanana a me kahi ʻano pōleʻa lole e hele ai no ke aupuni.
AMY GOODMAN: ʻAe, ke kamaʻilio nei ʻoe pehea e ola ai nā kānaka. Pehea ʻoe, ma ke ʻano he mea kākau haʻiʻōlelo loa, he mea hoʻohewa iā Modi? Pehea kou pilikia?
ARUNDHATI ROY: ʻAe, ʻike ʻoe, manaʻo wau ʻo mākou a pau - ʻike ʻoe, i ko lākou lanakila ʻana i ke koho balota i kēia manawa, i ʻApelila, ʻo ka mea mua - i kāna haʻiʻōlelo koho i kēlā ahiahi, ma hope o ka helu ʻana o ka balota, ua noʻonoʻo ʻoe, "No ke aha ʻaʻole ʻoe hauʻoli?” ʻIke ʻoe, ua piha hou ka ʻōlelo i ka huhū. A ua luku ʻo ia i ka poʻe kūʻē. Ua hoʻopau ʻo ia i nā ʻaoʻao kahiko a pau e hōʻike ana i nā castes hemahema, ka caste Dalit. Ua hāʻule kēia mau mea a pau. Akā ua hele ʻo ia ma hope o ka poʻe naʻauao, nā mea kākau, ka - ʻike ʻoe, ʻo kēia ʻano hui, kāhea ʻo ia iā mākou, o ka poʻe i hiki ʻole iā ia ke hoʻomalu. Akā i kēia manawa, nānā pakahi au a puni, aia nā noho kaʻawale. ʻIke ʻoe, aia nā kānaka i loko o ka hale paʻahao. Ke pepehi ʻia nei nā kānaka. He mea weliweli loa.
AMY GOODMAN: A no laila, ua hele mai ʻoe i kēia ʻāina. Hiki iā ʻoe ke kamaʻilio e pili ana iā Trump ma ʻAmelika Hui Pū ʻIa, pehea ʻoe e ʻike ai i nā mea e hana nei i kēia manawa a pehea ʻoe e ʻike ai i nā koho balota e hana nei a me nā moho e hoʻokūkū nei iā ia, mai Joe Biden a Bernie Sanders a Elizabeth Warren?
ARUNDHATI ROY: ʻAe, ʻo wau, pinepine i ka nīnau ʻana o ka poʻe e pili ana iā Trump, ʻike ʻoe, ua ʻōlelo wau i kēia, me he mea lā ʻo Trump - ʻo wau ke ʻano o ka effluent o kahi ʻōnaehana e hāʻule nei, ʻoiai ʻo Modi ka ʻōnaehana. Maopopo iā ʻoe? Loaʻa iā ia ke kākoʻo o ka media. Loaʻa iā ia ke kākoʻo o ka pūʻali koa, nā ʻaha hoʻokolokolo, kahi koho balota kaulana. Ma ʻaneʻi, ʻike wau i ka hakakā ʻana, ʻike ʻoe, ka mea aʻu e manaʻo nei e lanakila ana ke Akua e kēia hakakā me Trump, ʻike ʻoe? A ʻo wau - ʻo wau iho, i koʻu hoʻolohe ʻana iā Bernie Sanders e kamaʻilio ana, manaʻo wau he mea maikaʻi loa ke ʻōlelo ʻia nei kēia mau mea ma kahi kahua nui ma US, ʻike ʻoe? Ma mua, he mea hiki ʻole ke hele mai kekahi e ʻōlelo i nā mea āna e ʻōlelo nei e pili ana i ka mālama olakino a me ka, ʻike ʻoe, ka uku liʻiliʻi a me nā mea āpau. No laila, e ʻōlelo wale wau aia ma ʻaneʻi ka hakakā ʻana, a no mākou ma India, he mea nui ka nalo ʻana o kekahi e like me Trump, ʻoiai e ʻōlelo wau i kēia, ua ʻike mākou ua ʻoi aku ka nui o nā aupuni Demokarata. koʻikoʻi ma ka honua, ʻike ʻoe? No laila, ke manaʻolana nei au ʻaʻole ia e hana. Ke kānalua nei au inā lanakila kekahi e like me Bernie Sanders, ʻike ʻoe?
Akā aia - ʻo wau, ʻo ka pōʻino o ka honua ma hope o 9/11 wale nō - ʻo wau ʻo Modi, e ʻae - e ʻae mai iaʻu e ʻōlelo i kēia. Poina nā kānaka a pau, a aia kekahi ʻano amnesia i kākoʻo ʻia ma luna o kēia, pehea i komo ai ʻo Modi i ka politika India. He mau pule ma hope o 9/11, i ka wā i lilo ai ʻo Islamophobia i honua - ʻike ʻoe, ua ʻae ʻia ma ka honua holoʻokoʻa, nā pule ma hope o kēlā, BJP Ua hoʻoneʻe ʻo ia i ke kuhina nui o Gujarat a hoʻonoho iā Modi, ʻaʻole ia he lālā i koho ʻia no ka Hale Ahaolelo. A i loko o nā mahina o kēlā, ua loaʻa iā ʻoe kēia ahi o ke kaʻa kaʻaahi kahi i puhi ʻia ai 59 mau haipule Hindu. ʻAʻohe mea i ʻike i ke kumu o kēlā ahi. A laila ua loaʻa iā ʻoe ka pogrom kaulana i ka makahiki 2002, kahi i pepehi ʻia ai ka poʻe 2,500, pepehi ʻia, hoʻopaʻa ʻia, puhi ola ʻia. A i loko o ka manawa pōkole loa -
AMY GOODMAN: ʻO nā Muslim.
ARUNDHATI ROY: ʻAe. A i loko o ka manawa pōkole loa, hoʻolaha ʻo Modi i ke koho balota a lanakila. A i ka makahiki 2014, i ka wā i nīnau aku ai ʻo Reuters iā ia, i ka wā o kāna — i kāna hoʻolaha ʻana, kahi e lilo ai ʻo ia i moho kuhina nui no ka BJP, ua nīnau ka Reuters iā ia inā ua mihiʻo ia i ka mea i hanaʻia ma lalo o kāna kiaʻi ma Gujarat. A ʻōlelo maoli ʻo ia, "ʻAʻole au e mihi inā hiki mai kahi ʻīlio ma lalo o nā huila o kaʻu kaʻa."
AMY GOODMAN: A, ʻoiaʻiʻo, ua pāpā ʻia ʻo ia mai ʻAmelika Hui Pū ʻIa. ʻAʻole ʻae ʻia ʻo ia e komo no ka mea i hana ʻia ma laila.
ARUNDHATI ROY: ʻAe, ʻae, ʻae. No laila, ʻike ʻoe, he aha ka mea e hiki mai ana ma ʻAmelika, ʻike ʻoe, i kekahi manawa ʻaʻole ʻoe i ʻike i nā nalu e hoʻoulu ai a me nā nalu o ka make a me ka luku i hana ʻia e nā hana o kēia ʻāina, ʻike ʻoe? A ʻo Trump — ʻO kaʻu manaʻo, he mea weliweli ke ʻike i nā mea e hana nei ma ʻaneʻi, a hilahila ke ʻike i nā mea e hana nei ma aneʻi. Akā ʻaʻole wau - ʻaʻole wau i manaʻo ua hāʻule kēlā me kēia keʻena e like me ia ma laila. Ua hāʻule kēlā me kēia kula i ka laina. Ua hiki i ka media a me ka ʻAha Kiekie ke kū i ke ala o nā mea e hana nei ma India. ʻAʻole, ʻike ʻoe? No laila, pilikia loa mākou ma laila.
NERMEEN KANAKA: ʻAe, no ke aha ʻoe e ʻōlelo ai, ʻo Arundhati - no ke aha e hoʻololi nui ai i India inā koho ʻia ʻo Trump a ʻaʻole ʻo Trump?
ARUNDHATI ROY: No ke aha e hoʻololi ai? No ka mea, ʻike ʻoe, ʻo kēia ʻano manaʻo, ʻike ʻoe, ʻo ka Ku Klux Klanism o Trump, ke kiʻekiʻe keʻokeʻo e ulu nei a puni ʻEulopa, a me ka manaʻo o ka RSS, VHP, pili lākou a pau, ʻike ʻoe? A ʻo ka nui o ka poʻe ʻākau loa he pilina pilikino kekahi me kekahi, ʻike ʻoe? No laila, ʻo ia ke kumu aʻu e ʻōlelo ai e hiki ana - a ʻo ka mea nui, ʻaʻole wau ʻike. ʻIke ʻoe, like, ʻaʻole wau ʻike i kaʻu mea e hiki ai ke ʻōlelo a hana paha, no ka mea ʻaʻole wau - ʻaʻohe oʻu manaʻo e hiki i kekahi ke kōkua iā India koe wale nō ka poʻe. A ke hoʻomaka nei kekahi e makaʻu i ka poʻe, ʻike ʻoe, i nā mea e ʻōlelo ʻia nei ma ke ākea, ka lynching, ka lehulehu e ʻākoakoa ana, e hana ana i nā wikiō i ka wā e hahau ʻia ana nā kānaka a make, ʻike ʻoe? Mai ka makahiki 2015, manaʻo wau ua like ia me 120 poʻe i hoʻopaʻa ʻia.
AMY GOODMAN: Ua akahele anei oe i kou hele ana?
ARUNDHATI ROY: ʻAe, manaʻo wau e hiki mai ana kēlā me kēia mea. ʻAʻole hiki iaʻu ke hana i kekahi mea e pili ana i ia mea, ʻike ʻoe? E like me, ʻaʻole hiki iaʻu ke hele a makaʻu. ʻIke wau he nui nā mea nui. ʻIke ʻoe, ʻo ke kaumaha - ʻo ka pōʻino maoli iaʻu, ʻo nā mea nani a pau e pili ana i India, inā ʻo ke mele, inā ʻo ka hana, ʻo ka mele, ʻo ka palapala, ʻo ka ʻōlelo - nā mea nani a pau. e pili ana i kēlā wahi mai kēlā paʻakikī pau ʻole, ka hui pū ʻana o ia wahi. A ʻo nā mea nani a pau ke hoʻololi ʻia nei i ʻakika, ʻike ʻoe? Hoʻohuli ʻia nā mea nani a pau i waho. A, ʻo koʻu manaʻo, e like me ka mea kākau a mea kiʻi paha a i ʻole ke kanaka makemake i ka mele a i ʻole ka ʻōlelo, ʻike ʻoe, ʻaʻole hiki ke noʻonoʻo ʻia ka mea e hana ʻia nei. Pehea ʻoe e haʻi aku ai i kahi ʻāina he 780 mau ʻōlelo a me ka Sikhism a me ka Buddhism a me ka Kristiano a me nā akua ʻōiwi like ʻole a me nā mea a pau, makemake ʻoe i hoʻokahi ʻōlelo, hoʻokahi kumukānāwai, hoʻokahi hoʻomana, hoʻokahi lāhui. He mea suicidal.
AMY GOODMAN: ʻAe, e kamaʻilio e pili ana i kahi ʻano waikawa ʻokoʻa, makemake wau e nīnau iā ʻoe e pili ana i ka haumia ma India, e pili ana i ka hoʻololi ʻana i ke aniau. Hele mai ʻoe i ʻAmelika Hui Pū ʻIa i hoʻokahi pule wale nō ma hope o ka hoʻolaha ʻana o Pelekikena Trump i nā hoʻolālā hope loa e hoʻoneʻe i ʻAmelika Hui Pū ʻIa mai ka Paris Climate Agreement, ʻo ia wale nō ka ʻāina o ka honua e haʻalele. No New Delhi mai ʻoe. Ua ʻōlelo aku nā luna aupuni ua lilo ʻo New Delhi i keʻena kinoea, me ka smog toxic e uhi ana i kekahi o nā kūlanakauhale nui loa o ka honua. Ua haʻi aku nā luna i kahi pilikia olakino olakino a hāʻawi ʻia ma luna o 5 miliona mau masks i nā kamaʻāina, e hopohopo nei i ka hopena kino a me ka noʻonoʻo o ka haumia.
NEW Delhi, KUPONO: [Unuhi] Ma waho aʻe o nā pilikia hanu, ke hoʻokaumaha nei ka pollution iā mākou ma ke ʻano noʻonoʻo. ʻO ia ka mea e hana nei i kēia manawa. ʻAʻole ia he hoʻoilo, no laila ʻaʻole ia he noe. Ke hele nei mākou me nā maka.
AMY GOODMAN: No laila, e Arundhati Roy, ke noho nei ʻoe ma New Delhi. ʻO nā mea a pau mai Trump mai ka hōʻole ʻana i ke aniau a i hea kahi e kū ai ʻo Modi a he aha kou manaʻo e pono ai?
ARUNDHATI ROY: ʻAe, ʻike ʻoe, i kekahi manawa ke manaʻo nei kekahi o mākou e like me ka pollution ma Delhi he mea hōʻike no ka politika, ʻike ʻoe? He pelapela wale no. Ua kaʻa au mai Delhi i kahi kūlanakauhale ma Punjab i kapa ʻia ʻo Jalandhar i ka pule i hala. Ua like ia me ʻehiku hola. Ua like ia me ka dystopia, ʻike ʻoe, puhi wale, uahi. ʻAʻole hiki iā ʻoe ke haʻi inā he pō a i ke ao paha. ʻIke hou ʻo Modi, kū ʻo ia i luna a ʻōlelo i nā mea a ka poʻe e makemake ai e lohe e pili ana i ke aniau, akā ma ka home e hele ʻo ia a kamaʻilio me nā keiki a ʻōlelo i nā mea penei, "ʻAe, ʻaʻole mehana ka honua. ʻO ka mea wale nō mākou e ʻoluʻolu nei, "ʻike ʻoe, e like me - a i ʻole nā mea lapuwale e like me ia. A, ʻoiaʻiʻo, ke kamaʻilio nei mākou no Assam a ke kamaʻilio nei mākou e pili ana iā Kashmir, ma kekahi mau ʻano pili ia i ka hoʻololi ʻana i ke aniau, no ka mea, aia kahi wānana e hiki mai ana ka pilikia nui loa o India i ka wā e hiki mai ana. he pilikia wai. A, ʻoiaʻiʻo, e like me kāu e ʻike ai, ʻo wau hoʻi, ua hoʻolilo wau i ka manawa nui e kākau e pili ana i ka wai a me nā pā a me ka hoʻomohala ʻana a me nā ʻano huaʻai a me nā mea a pau.
AMY GOODMAN: ʻO ke kaua kūʻē i ka wai o Narmada a me nā mea ʻē aʻe.
ARUNDHATI ROY: ʻAe. Ua hāʻawi ʻo ia iā ia iho i ka wai piha piha o ka Narmada dam i kona lā hānau 69, ʻelima mau lā ma mua o kona hiki ʻana i ʻAmelika no ka Trump -
AMY GOODMAN: He aha kāna i hāʻawi ai iā ia iho?
ARUNDHATI ROY: Ua hoʻopiha ʻo ia i ka pūnāwai o ka wai ʻo Narmada, ʻike ʻoe, ʻo ia hoʻi, manaʻo wau, ʻoi aku ka nui ma mua o ka nui o Roma a i ʻole kekahi mea. A no laila, nānā wale ka poʻe e hakakā nei i ka pā i ko lākou hale i lalo. ʻO kēia kāna makana lā hānau iā ia iho. Akā, ʻike ʻoe, ʻo ia ka mea e like me kaʻu e ʻōlelo nei e pili ana iā Kashmir a me Assam, ma lalo o kēia mau mea, aia kekahi helu e pili ana i ke aniau. No ka laʻana, ʻelima mau muliwai e holo ana ma Kashmir. A ʻo ke kauoha ʻana i kēlā wai e komo pono i laila he mea nui loa.
A ʻo ka mea ʻē aʻe, he aha kēia ʻoihana o ka haʻi ʻana i ka poʻe ʻaʻole mokuʻāina a i ʻole ke noi ʻana i nā kānaka e hōʻike i kā lākou palapala hoʻoilina? ʻAʻole hiki iā ʻoe ke kipaku maoli i nā miliona o nā kānaka. ʻO koʻu manaʻo, ʻaʻole ʻo Bangladesh e lawe iā lākou. No laila, ʻo ka manaʻo e hoʻokumu i kahi ʻano kupa i loaʻa i kekahi poʻe ke kuleana a ʻaʻole i loaʻa i kekahi poʻe, e like me kahi ʻōnaehana caste hou e noho pū ana me ka mea kahiko, akā i kēia manawa me nā ʻōlelo kānāwai i lilo ai ka poʻe Mahometa i nā Dalits hou. maopopo iā ʻoe? No laila, ʻoiai mākou -
AMY GOODMAN: ʻO Dalits ka poʻe i hoʻopaʻa ʻole ʻia ma mua.
ARUNDHATI ROY: ʻAe. A no laila, loaʻa iā ʻoe kahi kūlana e emi ana nā kumuwaiwai, e nalowale ana ka wai, a emi pū ka hoʻokele waiwai. No laila, aia nā ʻaʻahu weliweli loa i lalo o kēia. Me he mea lā ke hoʻi nei ʻoe i kekahi mau mea ʻino i hala e hele mai me kahi ʻōnaehana hoʻokele hou no kahi pilikia hou.
NERMEEN KANAKA: ʻAe, ma mua o ko mākou hoʻopau ʻana, Arundhati, maopopo iaʻu ua ʻike ʻoe i kāu puke lanakila Booker Prize, Akua o na mea liilii, ua helu ʻia e ka BBC ʻo ia kekahi o nā haneli moʻolelo i hoʻokumu i ka honua. Ke hana nei ʻoe i kekahi puke moʻolelo moʻolelo?
ARUNDHATI ROY: ʻAʻole, ʻaʻole i kēia manawa. ʻIke ʻoe, pilikia loa wau, ʻike ʻoe, e nā mea a pau e hana nei, no laila ke manaʻo nei au ma hope o kekahi mau mahina e hoʻi au i kahi. Akā, nui loa - ʻaʻole au i ʻike. He mea paʻakikī loa ke kamaʻilio ʻana i ka pālākiō a me ke ʻano o kēia aka e lawe nei iā India. ʻIke ʻoe, e like me, ʻike wau i ka mea i hana ʻia ma Kelemania no ka mea ua manaʻo ka poʻe e hāpai ana i nā ʻōlelo aʻo mua i ka manaʻo, a ʻaʻole makemake ka honua macho Anglo-Saxon i ka manaʻo, ʻike ʻoe? Akā ʻo ka ʻoiaʻiʻo, he pilikia koʻikoʻi loa ia i loaʻa iā mākou, a hiki mai iā mākou mai kēlā me kēia ʻaoʻao i kēia manawa. A no laila, ʻae, ʻaʻole wau ʻike. ʻAʻole maopopo iaʻu pehea e kamaʻilio ai i kēia. A ʻaʻole maopopo iaʻu pehea - ʻo ka mea hiki i kekahi ke hana no ia, koe wale nō mākou, ʻike ʻoe, akā naʻe - he mea kākau wau. Pono wau e kākau.
AMY GOODMAN: ʻO ka mea kākau India a me ka mea hana ʻo Arundhati Roy. ʻO kāna puke mua, Ke Akua o na mea liilii, ua kapa ʻia e ka BBC ma ke ʻano he 100 Novels i hoʻohālikelike i ko mākou honua. ʻO ka puke hou loa a Arundhati he hōʻiliʻili o kāna mau moʻolelo moʻolelo i kapa ʻia Ko'u Puuwai Kipi.
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