JUAN GONZALEZ: Hoʻopau mākou i ke koena o ka hola me kekahi o nā mea kākau kaulana loa o Latin America: Eduardo Galeano. ʻO kāna mau hana mai ka trilogy Memory of Fire a hiki i ka Open Veins maʻamau o ʻAmelika ʻAmelika he hui kūʻokoʻa o ka mōʻaukala, ka moʻolelo, ka nūpepa a me ka loiloi politika. Ua unuhi ʻia kāna mau puke i ʻoi aku ma mua o 20 mau ʻōlelo. Ua hānau ʻia ma Uruguay i ka makahiki 1940, ua hoʻomaka ʻo Eduardo Galeano e kākau i nā ʻatikala nūpepa i kona wā ʻōpio. ʻOiai ʻo kāna moeʻuhane e lilo i mea pâʻani pôpeku, ma ka makahiki 20 ua lilo ʻo ia i luna hoʻoponopono o LaMarcha. I kekahi mau makahiki ma hope mai, ua lawe ʻo ia i ka pou kiʻekiʻe ma ka nūpepa ʻo Epocha i kēlā me kēia lā o Montevideo. Ma 31, kākau ʻo Galeano i kāna puke kaulana loa ʻo The Open Veins of Latin America: Five Centuries of the Pillage of a Continent.
AMY GOODMAN: Ma hope o ka hoʻokahuli aupuni 1973 i Uruguay, ua hoʻopaʻahao ʻia ʻo Galeano a koi ʻia e haʻalele i ka ʻāina. Ua noho ʻo ia ma Argentina, kahi āna i hoʻokumu ai a hoʻoponopono i kahi puke moʻomeheu i kapa ʻia ʻo Crisis. Ma hope o ka hoʻokahuli aupuni '76 ma laila, ua hoʻohui ʻia ka inoa o Galeano i ka papa inoa o ka poʻe i hoʻāhewa ʻia e ka pūʻali make. Ua neʻe ʻo ia i Sepania, kahi āna i hoʻomaka ai i kāna hana maʻamau ʻo Memory of Fire, kahi moʻolelo ʻekolu o ka moʻolelo o ʻAmelika, ʻĀkau a me Hema. Ua hoʻi hope ʻo ia i kona home i Uruguay, kahi āna e noho nei. Ua kapa ʻia kāna puke hou ʻo Voices of Time: A Life in Stories.
Ua hui pū ʻo Eduardo Galeano iā mākou no ke koena o ka hola ma kā mākou hale keʻena Firehouse. Welina mai i ka Demokalaka i kēia manawa!
EDUARDO GALEANO: Aloha mai. Aloha, Amy.
AMY GOODMAN: He mea maikaʻi ke noho pū me mākou. E hoʻomaka kākou i kahi i haʻalele ai i nā poʻomanaʻo, a ʻo ia ka pilikia o ka neʻe ʻana. Pehea ʻoe e ʻike ai, i kou nānā ʻana mai ka hema a hiki i ʻAmelika Hui Pū ʻIa ma ka ʻākau, ka pukana o ka pā, ka hihia o ka mālama ʻana i nā malihini ma kēia ʻāina?
EDUARDO GALEANO: He moʻolelo kaumaha. He moʻolelo kaumaha i kēlā me kēia lā. Manaʻo wau inā e hoʻomanaʻo ʻia ko mākou manawa ma ke ʻano he wā, he wā weliweli i ka mōʻaukala kanaka, kahi i kūʻokoʻa ai ke kālā e hele a hele mai a hoʻi mai a hele hou. Akā, ʻaʻole nā kānaka.
AMY GOODMAN: Ua kākau ʻoe e pili ana i ka neʻe ʻana ma kāu puke hou Voices of Time.
EDUARDO GALEANO: ʻAe. Aia kekahi mau moʻolelo e pili ana.
AMY GOODMAN: Hiki iā ʻoe ke heluhelu i kahi ʻāpana?
EDUARDO GALEANO: ʻO kekahi o lākou, he pōkole loa. He palapala ia no ka mōʻaukala. ʻepekema. ʻepekema maʻemaʻe. Pahuhopu. Aia ka hoʻomana o ka objectivity ma ʻaneʻi, no laila mahalo wau iā ia. A ʻo kēia - ʻike ʻoe, ʻike ʻoe. ʻAʻole hiki iā Christopher Columbus ke ʻike iā ʻAmelika, no ka mea, ʻaʻohe ona visa a i ʻole passport.
ʻAʻole hiki iā Pedro Alvares Cabral ke haʻalele i ka moku ma Pasila, no ka mea, ua lawe ʻo ia i ka maʻi maʻi liʻiliʻi, ka ʻāʻī, ka maʻi maʻi a me nā maʻi maʻi ʻē aʻe.
"ʻAʻole i hoʻomaka ʻo Hernan Cortes lāua ʻo Francisco Pizarro i ka naʻi ʻana iā Mekiko a me Peru, no ka mea, ʻaʻohe o lāua pepa hana.
"Ua hoʻohuli ʻia ʻo Pedro de Alvarado mai Guatemala, a ʻaʻole hiki iā Pedro de Valdivia ke komo i Chile, no ka mea ʻaʻole lākou i lawe mai i ka hōʻoia o kahi moʻolelo maʻemaʻe.
“A ua hoihoi hou ia ka poe haipule Mayflower i ke kai mai ke kapakai o Massachusetts: ua piha na quota no ka hele ana.â€
AMY GOODMAN: Eduardo Galeano, e heluhelu ana mai kāna puke hou Nā Leo o ka Manawa: He Ola i nā Moʻolelo. E hoʻi mākou me ia i hoʻokahi minute.
[wāwahi]
AMY GOODMAN: ʻO kā mākou malihini, ʻo Eduardo Galeano, kekahi o nā mea kākau kaulana loa ma kēia ʻāina, hānau ʻia ma Uruguay i 1940, paʻahao, koi ʻia e haʻalele i ka ʻāina ma hope o ka hoʻokahuli aupuni ma laila, ka mea kākau o nā puke he nui. ʻO kāna mea kaulana, The Open Veins of Latin America, kāna mea hou loa, Voices of Time: A Life in Stories. Juan?
ʻO JUAN GONZALEZ: Makemake au e nīnau iā ʻoe, ua maopopo ʻoe, i nā makahiki he nui i kēia manawa ua hoʻololi ʻoe i nā loli nui e kū nei ma Latin America. Ua hoʻopaʻahao ʻia ʻoe iā ʻoe iho i ka wā o ke aupuni dictator ma Uruguay. ʻIke pololei ʻoe i nā pilikia o Operation Condor a me nā mea weliweli ʻē aʻe e laha ana ma ka ʻāina i kēlā mau makahiki. A i kēia manawa aia nā loli nui e kū nei ma ka nui o kēia mau ʻāina, inā ʻaʻole i ka hoʻokele waiwai, ʻoiaʻiʻo nō i ka politika i kēia manawa. ʻO kou manaʻo i ke ʻano o ka loli ʻana o ʻAmelika Latin a i ʻole i loli i nā makahiki i hala iho nei?
EDUARDO GALEANO: ʻAe, ke manaʻo nei au ʻo kēia mau hanana hope loa, nā koho balota i lanakila ʻia e nā pūʻali holomua a me nā ʻano hana like ʻole, ua like ia me kahi mea e neʻe nei a hōʻike i kahi pono, he makemake e hoʻololi, akā ke kau nei mākou i kahi ukana kaumaha loa. ko makou kua, ka mea a'u i kapa ai "ka mo'omeheu kahiko o ka nawaliwali," he mea ia e hoahewa ana ia oe, e hoohewa ana ia oe e oopa mau loa, no ka mea, aia kekahi olelo mo'omeheu me ka olelo hou, "Aole hiki." ʻAʻole hiki iā ʻoe ke hele me kou mau wāwae. ʻAʻole hiki iā ʻoe ke noʻonoʻo me kou poʻo ponoʻī. ʻAʻole hiki iā ʻoe ke noʻonoʻo me kou puʻuwai ponoʻī, a no laila pono ʻoe e kūʻai i nā wāwae, naʻau, naʻau, waho ma ke ʻano he huahana lawe mai. ʻO kēia ko mākou ʻenemi ʻino loa, manaʻo wau.
JUAN GONZALEZ: ʻO ka hapa nui o kāu palapala e pili ana i ka hoʻomanaʻo. 'Ōleloʻoe i ka pilikia nui o ka amnesia ma Latin America. Hiki iā ʻoe ke kamaʻilio liʻiliʻi e pili ana i kēlā?
EDUARDO GALEANO: ʻAe. ʻAʻole e hoʻomanaʻo. ʻAʻole au i aloha i ka wā i hala, ʻike ʻoe. No ka laʻana, he malihini maikaʻi wau i loko o nā hale hōʻikeʻike, no ka mea, luuluu koke wau, a makemake mau wau i ke ola ola a i kēia mau lā. Akā ʻaʻohe palena ma waena o ka wā i hala a me kēia manawa ke hiki iā ʻoe ke nānā hou i ka wā i hala a ola hou. A laila, he aniani maikaʻi ke nānā aku iā ʻoe iho a hoʻomaopopo. Malia paha e kōkua ka hoʻomaopopo ʻana i kou ʻano maoli o kēia manawa, i kou ʻano maoli. Inā ʻaʻole ʻoe maopopo i hea ʻoe i hele mai ai, paʻakikī loa ka hoʻomaopopo ʻana i kou wahi e hele ai.
AMY GOODMAN: Eduardo Galeano, ua kamaʻilio ʻoe i ka World Social Forum ma Brazil, a ma Pepeluali 15, 2003, i ka pō o ka hoʻouka kaua ʻana o ʻAmelika iā Iraq, ua noi lākou iā ʻoe e hana i kahi ʻōlelo no nā mea a pau, ua kapa ʻia ʻoe "E ʻōlelo ʻAʻole. ” He aha kāu manaʻo?
EDUARDO GALEANO: ʻAe, ʻoiaʻiʻo. ʻAʻole maopopo iaʻu, akā manaʻo wau ua ʻōlelo wau he kaua karaima kēia e ʻimi nei i ka ʻaila, inā - ʻaʻole wau e hoʻomanaʻo pololei, akā e like paha ia me ka ʻōlelo ʻana, maikaʻi, inā hana ʻo Iraq i nā tōmato a i ʻole kāloti, ʻaʻohe kanaka. e hoouka aku. Ua hoʻouka ʻia ka ʻāina no nā kumu ʻē aʻe, nā kumu ʻike ʻole ʻia. ʻO ka alibi i kēlā manawa he pilikia ʻo Iraq no ke kanaka, nā mea kaua luku nui, ka manaʻo hoʻohui a i ʻole ke komo ʻana o Saddam Hussein i ka hoʻouka kaua 11 Kepakemapa.
ʻŌlelo mai koʻu makuahine - e haʻi iaʻu i koʻu wā kamaliʻi, he keiki liʻiliʻi, "He pōkole nā wāwae o ka wahaheʻe." Māmā ʻilihune. Ua hewa ʻo ia. He lōʻihi loa nā wāwae o ka wahaheʻe, a holo wikiwiki lākou, wikiwiki loa, ʻoi aku ka wikiwiki ma mua o ka poʻe wahaheʻe. No ka mea ma hope mai, ma ʻAmelika Hui Pū ʻIa, ma Great Britain, ma nā wahi a pau, ua ʻike ʻia ka manaʻo ʻaʻole ʻoiaʻiʻo, he mea hana ia, ʻaʻole i loaʻa nā mea kaua o ka luku nui a ʻaʻohe pili o Saddam Hussein me ka pōʻino ʻo Twin Towers. Akā naʻe, nui ka poʻe e manaʻoʻiʻo nei he ʻoiaʻiʻo ia, a ʻike lākou he wehewehe maikaʻi paha kēia no kēia kaua lapuwale. ʻOi aku a liʻiliʻi paha me kēia.
AMY GOODMAN: Manaʻo paha ʻoe he kūpono ke ʻōlelo ʻana ua hoʻopakele ʻo Iraq i ʻAmelika Latin, me ka nānā ʻana o Pelekikena Bush ma Iraq, ke ʻike nei mākou i ka hele ʻana o ʻAmelika Latin i kahi ʻano ʻokoʻa loa?
EDUARDO GALEANO: ʻAʻohe mea e ʻōlelo mai, hmm? Manaʻo wau he ʻoiaʻiʻo ke haʻi mai ʻo Pelekikena Bush iā mākou i kēlā me kēia lā ke pilikia nei mākou i ka nui o ka hoʻouka ʻia ʻana e ka hoʻoweliweli. ʻoiaʻiʻo. A ʻo ka hoʻoweliweli i hana i ke kaua ʻo Iraq, a hiki paha iā lākou - i kēia lā a ʻapōpō paha, ʻaʻole wau ʻike - e hoʻouka i kekahi ʻāina ʻAmelika Latin. He kuʻuna ia o ka mea hoʻoweliweli, mana imperialist ma ka honua. ʻO wai ka mea ʻike? ʻAʻole mākou palekana. ʻAʻole ʻoe palekana. ʻAʻohe mea palekana mai ka hoʻouka kaua ʻana mai kēia mīkini kaua, kēia hale nui a mākou i kūkulu ai - ua kūkulu lākou, ma ke ʻano honua. ʻO kēia $2,600 miliona i lilo i kēlā me kēia lā e pepehi i nā poʻe ʻē aʻe, kēia mīkini pepehi kanaka, ʻai i nā kumuwaiwai honua, ʻai i nā kumuwaiwai honua i kēlā me kēia lā. No laila, he hana hoʻoweliweli ʻoiaʻiʻo kēia, a aia mākou i ka pōʻino, no laila pololei ʻo Pelekikena Bush, manaʻo wau. Ke pilikia nei mākou i kahi hoʻoweliweli hoʻoweliweli.
ʻO JUAN GONZALEZ: ʻO kekahi o nā hoʻololi nui, ʻike ʻia iaʻu, ma Latin America, ʻo ia hoʻi, i nā makahiki he ʻumi a ʻelua paha i hala, ke ʻano o ka piʻi ʻana o nā koi ʻōiwi no nā pono, inā paha ma Chiapas i Mexico a i ʻole Evo Morales a he aha ka e hele ana ma Ekuador. ʻO kou manaʻo o kēia lōʻihi - no ka mea ua kākau ʻoe e pili ana iā ia. Ua kākau ʻoe e pili ana iā ia ma Open Veins of Latin America, pehea ka poʻe maoli o ʻAmelika Latin, no ka lōʻihi o ka hoʻoluhi ʻia a mālama ʻia e ka mulatto a i ʻole ka White elites o kēlā mau ʻāina, a pehea ka hopena o kēia hoʻololi i ka ʻāina.
EDUARDO GALEANO: ʻO kekahi o nā kuʻuna kahiko loa ma ʻAmelika, ʻo ʻAmelika a pau, no ka mea ʻo ʻAmelika pū kekahi. Ua ʻaihue ʻia ka inoa ʻo "ʻAmelika" e ʻAmelika Hui Pū ʻIa. ʻOiaʻiʻo, he ʻāpana mākou o ʻAmelika, ʻaʻole? A pēlā i loko o nā ʻekolu - ma ʻAmelika a pau, mai ʻĀkau a i Hema, mai Alaska a hiki i Chile, ʻo kekahi o nā kuʻuna nani loa ka ʻike ma waena o ka huaʻōlelo a me ka ʻoiaʻiʻo ma ka moʻomeheu India. ʻO ke ʻano kapu o ka ʻōlelo, ke ʻano kapu o ka ʻōlelo. A ʻo kēia kekahi mea ʻaʻole pinepine i nā moʻomeheu koʻikoʻi, akā ua mālama lākou ia mea, ʻo kēia manaʻoʻiʻo ma nā ʻōlelo, ma ka mana kapu o nā ʻōlelo.
He pelekikena ʻĀina ʻo Bolivia, ʻo Evo Morales. I ka mua he scandal. ʻO Evo Morales, he pelekikena India, a he India i hilahila ʻole i kona ʻano. ʻO ka mua he scandal. ʻO ka hōʻino paha ʻo ia ka mea i lawe ʻo Bolivia i ʻelua mau keneturi e ʻike ai he ʻāina ia me ka hapa nui o India i ka heluna kanaka, a he mea maʻamau ka loaʻa ʻana o kahi pelekikena India ʻo Evo Morales. Akā ʻo kēia ka mea hōʻino mua.
I kēia manawa ua loaʻa iā mākou ka lua, a ʻo ka lua o ka hōʻino i loaʻa mai ka mahalo nui iā Evo Morales no kēia moʻomeheu India o ka hoʻolaʻa ʻana i nā huaʻōlelo. No ke aha la ka nui o ka poe huhu ia ia? No ka mea, ua hoʻolilo ʻo ia i ka ʻaila a me ke kinoea. ʻo ia wale nō. Ua hana ʻo ia i kāna mea i hoʻohiki ai e hana, ʻo ia ka hewa nui mai ka ʻike ʻana o kahi ʻōnaehana e pili ana i ka wahaheʻe, e aʻo iā ʻoe e wahaheʻe i kēlā me kēia lā a me kēlā me kēia pō, ʻoiai ke loaʻa nei ʻoe i nā moeʻuhane a i nā moeʻuhane.
AMY GOODMAN: A ʻo kāu loiloi, ʻo Eduardo Galeano, o ka Pelekikena Venezuelan Hugo Chavez a me kēia hakakā titanic āna i hui pū ai me ka Pelekikena o ʻAmelika Hui Pū ʻIa, ʻo Pelekikena Bush?
EDUARDO GALEANO: He aha koʻu manaʻo no ia mea? ʻAʻole, manaʻo wau ʻo Chavez ka mea i hoʻomake ʻia. ʻO koʻu manaʻo, ʻo ia kekahi o nā daimonio. ʻAʻole maopopo iaʻu inā he daimonio ʻo ia i ka lā ʻapōpō a i ʻole, akā he daimonio maikaʻi ʻo ia i kēia manawa, pono no ka mīkini kaua honua e pōloli mau i nā daimonio. ʻO koʻu manaʻo, pono lākou i nā daimonio e hōʻoia i ka ʻoiaʻiʻo ke hoʻolilo nei ka honua i nā waiwai i ka ʻoihana koa. No laila, pono nā mea kaua i nā kaua, a ʻo nā kaua e pono ai nā alibi, a ʻo nā alibi nā daimonio, nā mana ʻino i ko mākou pilikia i kēlā me kēia lā. A no laila, ua noʻonoʻo lākou he pōʻino paha ʻo Chavez no ke kanaka a he hana ʻino ʻo ia a he dictator hoʻomāinoino. Ua lanakila ʻo ia i nā koho balota ʻewalu. He mea kamahao, ʻoiai he dictator, ʻewalu mau koho maʻemaʻe i lanakila ʻia e ia.
He mea nānā au ma ka honua ma kēia plebiscite āna i hana ai - ʻaʻole wau e hoʻomanaʻo i kēia manawa, akā he mea like me kekahi mau makahiki i hala aku nei - he mea kupaianaha loa ia i ka mōʻaukala kanaka. ʻO ka manawa mua paha, e ʻōlelo ai ka pelekikena i ka poʻe, “Eia koʻu kūlana, kaʻu hana. Inā hoʻoholo ʻoe ʻaʻole wau he pelekikena maikaʻi, a laila e hele wau i waho,' a koho ka poʻe e mālama iā ia i ka mana. ʻO Jimmy Carter kekahi mea nānā honua. Ua hana pū mākou - a me Gaviria, a ua lokahi, ʻo ka ʻoiaʻiʻo he koho maʻemaʻe kēia. A laila, ʻaʻole au i ʻike i ka hihia o kahi mea hoʻomāinoino i hōʻoia ʻia i ka democratically i nā manawa he nui. He mea kupanaha.
No hea mai kēia inaina? Malia paha - ʻaʻole paha au i ʻike, no ka mea, he aloha ʻāina maoli ʻo ia. ʻO koʻu manaʻo, ke mālama nei ʻo ia i kona poʻe ma kona ʻāina. A ʻo ke aloha ʻāina i kēia mau lā, he pono ia no nā ʻāina waiwai. Inā ʻo ʻoe ke alakaʻi o kahi ʻāina ʻekolu o ka honua, a laila e kānalua mau ana kou aloha ʻāina i ka populism a i ʻole ka hoʻoweliweli a i ʻole kekahi mea - kekahi -ism ʻē aʻe - ʻaʻole au i ʻike - weliweli, hiki iā lākou ke hana e hoʻopunipuni i ke aloha āu i manaʻo ai no kāu. kanaka ponoi.
JUAN GONZALEZ: Makemake au e huli i kāu ʻano kākau. Hōʻole ʻoe i ka hoʻokaʻawale ʻana ma ke ʻano o nā ʻano puke āu e hana ai. He hapa mele, he hapa kālai'āina.
EDUARDO GALEANO: ʻAe
JUAN GONZALEZ: ʻAʻole ʻoe e hahai i kahi haʻiʻōlelo moʻolelo lōʻihi, akā hoʻopili ʻoe i nā ʻāpana o ka tapestry. Pehea ʻoe i hoʻomohala ai i kēlā ʻano? No ke aha ʻoe i hoʻoholo ai e kākau ma ia ʻano?
EDUARDO GALEANO: ʻAʻole au i hoʻoholo. He mea ia — Ua kākau ʻia au e kaʻu mau puke. ʻO koʻu manaʻo, kākau lākou iaʻu, no laila ʻaʻole wau e hoʻoholo i kekahi mea. ʻAe, ke ʻimi mau nei au i ʻōlelo e hiki ai ke hoʻohui i nā mea a pau i hoʻokaʻawale ʻia mai ka moʻomeheu, e like me ka puʻuwai a me ka noʻonoʻo. No laila ke ʻimi nei au i ka ʻōlelo manaʻo noʻonoʻo, sentipensante, “feel-thinking.†He huaʻōlelo. ʻAʻole au i haku i ka ʻōlelo. He huaʻōlelo aʻu i lohe ai i nā makahiki i hala aku nei ma ke kahakai ʻo Colombian. Ua haʻi mai kekahi kanaka lawaiʻa iaʻu, "Hay gigrere en las palabras sentipensantes," i koʻu haʻi ʻana iā ia he mea kākau wau. "Ah, he mea kākau ʻoe." "ʻAe." “ʻŌ.” A ua nīnau mai ʻo ia iaʻu inā ke hoʻohana nei au i ka ʻōlelo sentipensante, he ʻōlelo manaʻo noʻonoʻo. A no laila, he haku ʻo ia. ʻO koʻu manaʻo, ua aʻo nui wau mai kēia ʻōlelo a mau loa. He sentipensante wau.
Manaʻo wau ʻo kekahi o ka hemo ʻana i pale i ka hoʻohui piha ʻana o ke ʻano o ke kanaka ʻo kēia ka hemo ʻana ma waena o ko mākou mau manaʻo a me ko mākou mau manaʻo. Ma nā male male ʻē aʻe, ka hoʻokaʻawale ʻana i nā nūpepa, no ka laʻana, nā mea kākau moʻolelo, me ka ʻōlelo ʻana, pono, he ʻatikala kēia. He mele kēia. He moʻolelo kēia. He mea kēia - ʻaʻole maopopo iaʻu he aha. A ʻaʻole wau manaʻoʻiʻo i nā palena. Manaʻo wau ʻaʻole - ʻaʻole wau i manaʻoʻiʻo i nā palena. A laila, pehea wau e hoʻomaʻamaʻa ai i nā alguanas, e ʻōlelo wau, ka mana o ka neʻe ʻana ma waena o nā mea kākau moʻolelo? Ke manaʻoʻiʻo nei au -
AMY GOODMAN: ʻAʻole ʻoe manaʻoʻiʻo i nā palena.
EDUARDO GALEANO: ʻAʻole. Manaʻo wau i ka wā o ka honua - i kekahi lā ʻaʻole e huli ka honua, ka honua, ko kākou honua, a laila e hoʻokipa ʻia kekahi kanaka hānau hou. E ʻōlelo ana, “Aloha. E hele mai. Komo mai. ʻO ka honua holoʻokoʻa kou aupuni. E lilo kou mau wāwae i kāu passport, e paʻa mau loa. " A iaʻu, he ʻoiaʻiʻo nō kēia no nā ʻōlelo. ʻO koʻu manaʻo, ʻo ia ka mea like me nā huaʻōlelo, nā kānaka, nā huaʻōlelo. Ke manaʻoʻiʻo nei au i ke ʻano o ke ʻano o ke kanaka, ʻaʻole ka honua, ʻo ia ke ʻano o ke kālā, akā ʻo ke ʻano ākea o ko mākou mau makemake kanaka.
AMY GOODMAN: Eduardo Galeano, pono mākou e hoʻomaha no kahi manawa, akā e hoʻi mākou. ʻO Eduardo Galeano ka mea kākau o, ma waena o nā puke ʻē aʻe, kāna mea hou loa, Voices of Time: A Life in Stories.
AMY GOODMAN: ʻO kā mākou malihini no ka hola ʻo Eduardo Galeano, kekahi o nā mea kākau kaulana loa ma Latin America, hānau ʻia ma Uruguay, e noho ana i laila i kēia manawa, pono e haʻalele ma hope o ka hoʻokahuli aupuni, ua hoʻopaʻahao ʻia no kekahi manawa ma laila, ua kākau i nā puke he nui, ma waena o ʻO kāna puke kaulana ʻo The Open Veins of Latin America, kāna trilogy Memory of Fire, kāna puke hou loa Voices of Time: A Life in Stories. Ua kākau pū ʻoe i ka Soccer ma ka Lā a me ka Shadow. E piʻi mai ana ka World Cup ma Kelemānia i kekahi mau pule.
EDUARDO GALEANO: ʻAe.
AMY GOODMAN: He mea kākau maikaʻi ʻoe, akā ʻaʻole ia kou makemake kiʻekiʻe. He mea pâʻani pôpeku. E kamaʻilio e pili ana i ke koʻikoʻi o ka pōpeku.
EDUARDO GALEANO: ʻO nā Uruguayan a pau. Makemake mākou a pau e lilo i mea pāʻani pōpeku, ʻaʻole hiki iaʻu, no ka mea, ua ʻino loa wau ma ke kula. Ma Uruguay, ma ka — como se llama, maternidades? - nā makuahine, walaʻau loa lākou, no ka mea, hānau ʻia nā pēpē a pau e uē ana, “Gooooool! Gooool! Gooool!†He mea weliweli ia — ʻaʻole hiki iā ʻoe ke kū. Pono lākou e hāmau, ʻoi aku ka mālie.
A ʻōlelo kēlā, ʻo ko mākou hopena lāhui. Ua lanakila ʻo Uruguay i ʻelua poʻokela honua, ma mua o ka World Cup mua ma nā pāʻani ʻOlumepika ʻelua: ’24, ‘28. Ma hope mai, aia ka hoʻokûkû honua mua ma Montevideo ma Uruguay. A ma hope mai, ua lanakila hou mākou i ka honua i ka makahiki 1950, e kūʻē i nā hōʻike āpau, no ka mea, he ʻāina liʻiliʻi ʻo Uruguay. ʻEkolu miliona mākou. ʻAʻohe mea. He liʻiliʻi ka poʻe ma mua o nā kaiāulu ma Buenos Aires a i ʻole Sao Paulo. Eia nō naʻe, hiki iā mākou ke hana pēlā, a laila he ʻano ʻāina ia.
He poʻe akamai nā Uruguayan a pau i ka pōpeku. ʻO ia ke kumu i koʻu kākau ʻana i ka puke, me ka hoʻāʻo ʻana e hana me nā lima i ka mea hiki ʻole iaʻu ke hana me koʻu mau wāwae, ua ʻimi au i ka hopohopo, no ka mea, ʻike nā Uruguayan āpau i nā mea āpau e pili ana i ka soccer. He poʻe loea pōpeku lākou. A i kēia mau lā ʻo kā mākou pōpeku maoli - ʻo wau, ʻaʻole maikaʻi loa kā mākou mea pāʻani i ka honua. Aia mākou ma waho o ka hope -
AMY GOODMAN: Pehea ka hui ʻana o ka pôpeku a me ka politika?
EDUARDO GALEANO: Ma nā wahi a pau, i kēlā me kēia lā, he kumu mana ka pōpeku i kēia mau lā. ʻO Silvio Berlusconi ka hopena o ka holomua o ka hui Milan ma Italia. A kokoke i nā poʻe kālai'āina a pau ma nā ʻāina Latin e pili kokoke i ka pelekikena a i ʻole ka poʻe kālai'āina, akā ʻo nā dictator pūʻali koa. ʻO kekahi o nā hana mua a General Pinochet ma Chile, ʻo ia ka lilo ʻana i pelekikena no kahi kime pōpeku kaulana loa, ʻo Colo-Colo, no ka mea, ua ʻike maopopo ʻo ia he kumu hanohano a me ka mana ka pōpeku.
JUAN GONZALEZ: He ʻano like me George Bush me ka Texas Rangers, ʻeā?
EDUARDO GALEANO: ʻAe. ʻO ia ka mea like, ʻae. Akā, ʻo kaʻu ʻōlelo, ʻike ʻoe, he ʻoihana kiʻekiʻe. I kēia mau lā, ʻaʻole ia he kumu hanohano wale nō, akā, ʻoihana nui nō hoʻi i ka futbol — soccer, e like me kou kapa ʻana iā ia ma ʻAmelika. Akā ʻaʻole maopopo iaʻu ke kumu o ka hana mana, a hiki i ka pōpeku ke hāʻawi iā ʻoe i ʻahaʻaina, he ʻahaʻaina i nā maka e nānā ana i ka wā e pāʻani maikaʻi loa ai a he ʻahaʻaina i nā wāwae ke pāʻani ʻoe. A aia nō, aia nō. ʻAʻole maopopo iaʻu pehea, akā aia lākou. ʻO Ronaldino, no ka laʻana. Hiki i nā mea pāʻani ke pāʻani no ka hauʻoli, ka leʻaleʻa o ka pāʻani ʻana, ma mua o ka pāʻani ʻana no ka mea pono lākou e hana, pono ʻoihana e hana. Me he koho lā. Ke hana nei mākou a pau i kēlā me kēia lā, e like me mākou, e ola i ke ola ma ke ʻano he kuleana, akā makemake malū e noho ma ke ʻano he ʻahaʻaina.
JUAN GONZALEZ: Makemake au e nīnau iā ʻoe, ua hoʻomaka ʻoe ma ke ʻano he mea kākau moʻolelo, a ʻo ka mea kākau moʻolelo ma Latin America he kuʻuna lōʻihi o ka lilo ʻana i mea hoʻolalelale no nā alakaʻi politika ma ʻAmelika Latin. Akā ʻo kou manaʻo i ka loli ʻana o ka nūpepa i nā makahiki i hala iho nei ma laila? ʻO koʻu manaʻo, ma ʻAmelika Hui Pū ʻIa, aia ke kaua nui ma luna o ka piʻi nui ʻana o ka manaʻo.
EDUARDO GALEANO: ʻAe.
JUAN GONZALEZ: A ʻike wau ma Latin America aia nā kaulahao nui o Venevision a me Globalvision. Pehea ka loli ʻana o ka nūpepa ma Latin America i nā makahiki i hala iho nei?
EDUARDO GALEANO: ʻAe, aia ka manaʻo o ka mana i kēia mau lā ma ka pae honua, ma Latin America a ma nā wahi āpau, ʻoiai ma ʻAmelika. A ʻaʻole maikaʻi kēia. ʻAʻole ka nūhou maikaʻi no ke kanaka, kēia manaʻo o ka mana, no ka mea, hoʻoweliweli ia e hōʻemi i ke kūʻokoʻa o ka haʻi ʻana i ke kūʻokoʻa o ka hoʻokaumaha. ʻO koʻu manaʻo, lilo ia i kuleana monopoly o kahi hui liʻiliʻi o nā ʻoihana, ka mea e pani nei i nā hale hana nui o ka manaʻo o ka lehulehu i ka pae honua.
Akā aia ka demokala i kēia manawa, a nui nā wahi kūʻokoʻa ʻē aʻe i wehe ʻia ma nā wahi āpau. He wahi haiki ko lakou i keia wa. Inā ʻoe e hoʻohālikelike, no ka laʻana, ka hapa o ka pāpaho kūʻokoʻa i nā makahiki 40 a i ʻole 50 mau makahiki i hala aku nei, me ka hapa maoli, ka hapa o kēia manawa, weliweli. ʻO koʻu manaʻo, weliweli, ka hoʻopaʻa ʻana o nā mea āpau. Akā, aia nā ala hou, pūnaewele a me nā mea ʻē aʻe, e hōʻike ana i nā neʻe leo ʻole a i ʻole nā neʻe i hoʻāhewa ʻia e kani ʻia i ka campana de palo - pehea ia? — ma na bele laau.
AMY GOODMAN: Nā bele lāʻau, ʻae.
AMY GOODMAN: I nā bele lāʻau. A ke pahū nei kēia mau ala hou i ka honua o kēia wā a me ka wehe ʻana, e hoʻonui ana i nā wahi no nā hōʻike kūʻokoʻa. Ua mihi au i kēia manawa, no ka mea, ʻaʻole wau i manaʻoʻiʻo iā ia i kinohi. ʻO koʻu manaʻo, ua kuhi hewa wau iā ia, i kēia pūnaewele a me nā mea ʻē aʻe, nā ala hou o ka cybernetic - ʻaʻole, ua kūʻē wau iā ia, no ka mea, ua manaʻo mau wau i ka inu ʻana o nā mīkini i ka pō. Ke ʻike ʻole kekahi iā lākou, inu lākou. A laila, i ka lā ma hope, hana lākou i nā ʻano pōʻino āpau - akā i kēia manawa ke ʻae nei au he mea hou a he kumu o ka manaʻolana - no ka mea, ua hānau ʻia ka pūnaewele no ka pūʻali koa, i ʻōlelo ʻia e ka Pentagon e hoʻolālā i ka honua i kā lākou hana. A i kēia mau lā, ke lawelawe nei nō hoʻi ia no ka hana pūʻali koa a me ka ʻoihana a pēlā aku, akā e wehe ana i nā wahi e hanu ai, respirar, e pono ai mākou.
AMY GOODMAN: Eduardo Galeano, makemake wau e nīnau i kekahi nīnau e pili ana i ka nūpepa, e pili ana i nā mea e hana nei i nā mea nūpepa ma Iraq. ʻO ka nui o nā mea kākau moʻolelo i pepehi ʻia, ʻoi aku ia ma mua o hoʻokahi haneli i kēia manawa, nā mea kākau moʻolelo Western, nā mea paʻi kiʻi, nā mea paʻi wikiō a me nā mea kākau, a me nā mea nūpepa Iraqi a me Arab.
EDUARDO GALEANO: ʻAe, ʻoi aku. ʻO ka hapa nui o lākou, ʻae.
AMY GOODMAN: ʻO kou mau manaʻo e pili ana i ka mana o ka nūpepa a me ka mana o nā kiʻi, ʻoi loa i ka wā kaua?
EDUARDO GALEANO: Ma nā ʻano o ka make, no ka mea, ʻoiaʻiʻo, ʻoi aku ka nui o ka mea nūpepa haole ma mua o kahi mea kākau moʻolelo Iraqi i make, a no ka mea, ke maʻi nei ka honua, ke ao holoʻokoʻa i ka racism. A no laila, he mau makaʻāinana o ka papa ʻekahi, papa ʻelua, papa ʻekolu, papa ʻehā, a me nā kupapaʻu o ka papa ʻekahi, ʻelua, ʻekolu, ʻehā. Inā hiki iā ʻoe ke hoʻolālā i ka hapa o ka poʻe i pepehi ʻia, nā kānaka kīwila i pepehi ʻia i ke kaua Iraqi, ʻo ka hapa nui o lākou nā wahine a me nā keiki, e like me ka heluna o ka US, he sifra weliweli, numero.
JUAN GONZALEZ: Kiʻi.
EDUARDO GALEANO: Kiʻi. He hapalua miliona. ʻOi aku a emi mai paha ka hapalua miliona. Hiki iā ʻoe ke noʻonoʻo i ka scandal? He mau millennium ka poina. ʻO ka hapalua miliona mau kānaka US - ʻAmelika, e like me ka mea i ʻōlelo ʻia - ʻo ka hapa nui o lākou nā wahine a me nā keiki, i pepehi ʻia e ka hoʻouka kaua ʻana? Ke hoʻouka nei ʻo Iraq i ʻAmelika a pepehi i ka hapalua miliona mau kānaka ma aneʻi? Millenniums, pono e poina ia mea. Akā, ʻoiai he poʻe Iraqi lākou, heluhelu mākou i kēlā me kēia lā ma nā nūpepa, ʻōlelo hou, 30 poʻe i make, 50 poʻe i make, 100 poʻe i make. Huli ia he maʻamau, he mea maʻamau, ma ke ʻano he ʻano o ke ʻano. A pela no ka poe nupepa. He mea kaumaha ka ʻōlelo ʻana, akā ʻaʻole like ke ola ʻo Iraqi ma mua o hoʻokahi Pelekania a US a Farani a i ʻole kekahi ola ʻē aʻe i lawe ʻia ma ka hana hanohano o ka haʻi ʻana i nā mea e hana nei [inaudible].
AMY GOODMAN: Pehea ʻoe e hana ai i kāu ʻoihana kākau i kahi manawa paʻakikī loa i kēia manawa? Pehea ʻoe e hoʻomaʻemaʻe ai i kou poʻo? He aha kāu hoʻomana? ʻO Isabel Allende, nāna i kākau i ka hoʻolauna i ka puke hou loa o Open Veins of Latin America, ua kamaʻilio ʻo ia - hoʻomaka ʻo ia i hoʻokahi lā i ka makahiki, i Ianuali, inā ʻo ia e hoʻomaka i kahi puke. Pehea ʻoe e hana ai?
EDUARDO GALEANO: ʻAʻole, ʻaʻohe oʻu aʻo ʻana. Ua aʻo wau e kākau maoli mai ke mele, he mea hoʻokani pila Cuban. Ua hoʻokani ʻo ia i ka pahu, tambor, ma Santiago i nā makahiki he nui aku nei. He kilokilo loa ʻo ia. He nani kēia pahu, hoʻokani pila ma ka honua akā mai ka lani mai. He mea kupanaha loa au i ninau aku ai iaia, "E oluolu oe e haawi mai ia'u i kau mea huna." I mai la kela, "Yo toco cuando me pica la mano." Ano, e hooho oe ia'u, no ka mea, aole hiki ia'u ke olelo ma ka olelo Beritania.
JUAN GONZALEZ: Paʻani au i ka wā e hoʻomaka ai koʻu lima e ʻeha.
EDUARDO GALEANO: ʻO ia nō. A kākau wau i ka wā e hoʻomaka ai koʻu lima e ʻeha. ʻO koʻu manaʻo, ʻaʻole au e kauoha iaʻu iho, me ka ʻōlelo ʻana, "E kākau ʻoe," a i ʻole "Pono ʻoe e kākau e pili ana i kēia kumuhana," a i ʻole "Pono ʻoe e ʻōlelo i kēia a i ʻole," a i ʻole - ʻaʻole. Ke waiho nei au. E lawa ʻia nō. Ke waiho nei au ia mea e ulu ana i loko. A he hana paʻakikī. ʻO kēlā me kēia o kēia mau moʻolelo pōkole, he nui nā mea e kākau ai, loaʻa kekahi o lākou he 20, 30, 40 mau mana ma mua o ka paʻi ʻia ʻana. Paʻakikī loa iaʻu.
AMY GOODMAN: Hiki iā ʻoe ke heluhelu i kahi hope no mākou?
EDUARDO GALEANO: ʻAe. “I ke kauwela o 1972, lohe ʻo Carlos Lenkersdorf i kēia huaʻōlelo no ka manawa mua.
“Ua kono ʻia ʻo ia i kahi hui o Tzetzal Indians ma ke kūlanakauhale ʻo Bachajon, ʻaʻole maopopo iā ia kekahi mea. ʻAʻole ʻo ia i kamaʻāina i ka ʻōlelo, a iā ia ke kani ʻana o ke kūkākūkā hahana me he ua pupule lā.
“Ua hiki mai ka huaolelo tik i ka ua. ʻŌlelo nā kānaka a pau, ʻōlelo hou - tik, tik tik - a piʻi aʻe kāna pitter-patter ma luna o ke kahawai o nā leo. He anaina ia ma ke ki o tik.
"Ua puni ʻo Carlos, a ua ʻike ʻo ia ma nā ʻōlelo āpau ʻo wau ka huaʻōlelo i hoʻohana pinepine ʻia. I. Akā ʻo tik, ʻo ia ka huaʻōlelo e ʻālohilohi ana i ka puʻuwai o nā ʻōlelo a me nā hana o kēia mau kaiāulu Mayan, ʻo ia hoʻi, ʻo ia hoʻi, ʻo mākou.
JUAN GONZALEZ: Makemake au e nīnau iā ʻoe, ma ke ʻano o kāu - loaʻa iā ʻoe kahi manawa i kēia manawa, a e hele ana ʻoe a puni ʻAmelika Hui Pū ʻIa e kiʻi i kahi leka i ka poʻe ʻAmelika. ʻO kēia ka lāhui ikaika loa o ka honua. ʻO mākou paha ka aupuni nui loa i ʻike ʻia e ka honua. He aha ke kuleana o ka poʻe ʻAmelika i ka honua i kēia lā, a he aha kā lākou kuleana, ʻokoʻa mai ke aupuni?
EDUARDO GALEANO: ʻAe. Manaʻo wau e lohe paha lākou i nā leo ʻē aʻe. A e kōkua ia i ka hoʻomaopopo ʻana he ʻoi aku ka nui o ka honua ma mua o ka US ʻo kaʻu e ʻōlelo nei, he ʻāina koʻikoʻi kēia, ʻoiaʻiʻo. A hele mai au mai kahi ʻāina liʻiliʻi. ʻAʻole ʻike ka hapa nui o ka poʻe i hea ia. Akā, he mea nui mākou a pau. Hiki iā mākou ke ʻōlelo i kahi mea e pono ai ke lohe ʻia. A i koʻu noho ʻana ma ʻaneʻi i kahi manawa aʻu i noho ai i loko o ʻekolu, ʻehā mahina, e aʻo ana ma kekahi kulanui, pēlā aku, pūʻiwa wau i ka ʻike ʻole o ka honua no ka media, no ka media nui. ʻAʻole i loaʻa. Aneane ʻaʻohe nūhou e pili ana i ka honua. A i ka hiki ʻana mai o ka nūhou, ʻaʻole ʻike ka hapa nui o ka poʻe i ke ʻano o ia mea. Ua ʻōlelo kekahi o koʻu mau haku, ʻo Ambrose Pierce, i hoʻokahi kenekulia aku nei, “ʻAʻole ʻino loa nā kaua. Ma ka liʻiliʻi no ka US No mākou, ʻaʻole ʻino loa nā kaua. Ke aʻo mai nei nā kaua iā kākou i ka ʻāina.â€
AMY GOODMAN: Eduardo Galeano, makemake au e hoʻomaikaʻi nui iā ʻoe no kou noho pū ʻana me mākou, kekahi o nā mea kākau nui o ka honua i kēia lā, kāna puke hou Nā Leo o ka Manawa: A Life in Stories.
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